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Why PFS rules prevent me from making PFS happen


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

**

I managed to bring regular weekly PFS gaming to two FLGS, with 2-3 tables in each, but it seems the PFS managment rules are made to hamper these effort to develop the game and I'm finding it just too hard now after less than a year.

Let me explain (what you already know): starting is easy (and works well); it's getting it to last that's too hard. As soon as you get a few players through mid-level, you either have to turn down newcomers (no beginner table available) or convince your old-timers to start it all over again. Both suck.

Sure, if you've got a vast pool of DMs, players, and room for several tables, you're all right, but who has?

Oh, and we're already through *all* non-series tier 1-5 scenarios. There's always somebody who's played each.

**Suggestions?**

1) Allow players to create characters above level 1, maybe up to level 3. It wouldn't be unbalanced/unfair, considering that without PP they could only buy always available items. Also, playing through 1 to 3 would still give you the edge of having accumulated PPs and boons. (This would also make chronicle items much more relevant for the newcomers and encourage having more cool boons)

2) Let PCs that are under the Tier level up quicker (and get less gold of course!). Otherwise stragglers, the unlucky player who misses a couple sessions because he's swamped with work, well, sorry, man, can't play with us anymore. Go play on the (inexistent) level 1 table.

This way you would have to "restart" much less frequently and welcome more players. Right now I have to turn down people coming in to play! Sorry guys! You can't play in our games, you're not good enough!

Without the PFS rules, I would certainly welcome them around the table with higher-level PCs. I mean, why the hell not!?

End of rant. I don't really hope this will change, but I sure know *I* will have to change it, that is stop abiding by PFS table rules pretty soon.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

FlorianF wrote:

I managed to bring regular weekly PFS gaming to two FLGS, with 2-3 tables in each, but it seems the PFS managment rules are made to hamper these effort to develop the game and I'm finding it just too hard now after less than a year.

Let me explain (what you already know): starting is easy (and works well); it's getting it to last that's too hard. As soon as you get a few players through mid-level, you either have to turn down newcomers (no beginner table available) or convince your old-timers to start it all over again. Both suck.

If you can pull in 3-4 new players, then you can start a completely new table of players. The existing players should start looking to GM. Not only does that give back to the community, but they can use GM credits to have characters ready at various levels/tiers so they can more easily fit with a table of players.

FlorianF wrote:
Oh, and we're already through *all* non-series tier 1-5 scenarios. There's always somebody who's played each.

If you have only been playing for roughly a year and already ran through three full seasons of scenarios, then you are playing waaay too often. I suggest reducing the frequency of your PFS sessions. Substitute adventure Paths or even other games. I'm sure the players would be open to other avenues of gameplay. And there are always sanctioned modules that can be played. There are enough that you can play a character from creation to nearly level 17 without ever playing a scenario. With each module taking 2-3 standard slots timewise, that should easily adds months of fresh gameplay.

FlorianF wrote:
This way you would have to "restart" much less frequently and welcome more players. Right now I have to turn down people coming in to play! Sorry guys! You can't play in our games, you're not good enough!

I don't understand what "good enough" has to do with your plight. New players could use higher level pregens on occasion to fit a table. They still get a chronicle.

What region are you in FlorianF? Have you reached out to your nearest venture officer/s for assistance. I am sure there are solutions to your situation if everyone is willing to compromise a bit.

****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
FlorianF wrote:
Sure, if you've got a vast pool of DMs, players, and room for several tables, you're all right, but who has?

Someone who says, "Guys, in order to make this event work, we need people to step up and run beginner tables so that we can continue to run y'all through higher tier tables. You can take turns, or draw straws, or do whatever, but if people with characters who can't play Tier 1-5 aren't willing to GM at least every so often, I'm not going to cater to their whims to the point of turning away new players. The good news is, since at least one person has played every single Tier 1-5 scenario somehow, we have a GM for every single Tier 1-5 scenario!"

Paizo Employee ** Developer

First, thanks for working to make Pathfinder Society happen in your area! Let's see if there's any help we can offer to make it work better for you.

FlorianF wrote:

we're already through *all* non-series tier 1-5 scenarios. There's always somebody who's played each.

To combat this, I suggest instituting pre-game signups if you're not already doing so. This will prevent someone from showing up and finding that everything being offered is something they've played. Also, try running some of the series. That will add another dozen or so scenarios to your pool to pick from, and you know no one's played any of them yet. There are also low-level Pathfinder Modules (such as the brand new Murder's Mark) that can further expand your options for low-level play.

FlorianF wrote:


1) Allow players to create characters above level 1

The closest we have to this is the ability to play a pregenerated character of 4th or 7th level to experience a higher-level adventure. You can then apply the Chronicle sheet earned to a new 1st-level character or hold it to apply to another character when that PC reaches the appropriate level.

FlorianF wrote:
2) Let PCs that are under the Tier level up quicker

I suggest having players that are finding themselves leveling too quickly to opt for the slow advancement track option, which will allow new players to catch up to them by earning twice the relative XP per scenario.

Paizo Employee ***** Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Great suggestions from posters above. I also recommend reaching out to your local VC.

FlorianF wrote:


Oh, and we're already through *all* non-series tier 1-5 scenarios. There's always somebody who's played each.

I'm not sure what you mean. Looking at your reported sessions, I only see Season 3 and 4 scenarios. Have you played all "non-series" season 0, 1 and 2 tier 1-5 scenarios? If so, they haven't been reported. There are quite a few options in those three seasons alone of stand-alone tier 1-5 scenarios that aren't linked, even thematically, to any other scenarios. The following are "non-series" options I didn't see on recorded your player or GM history (I left off all the Blakros Museum scenarios, all the Devil We Know scenario, all the Among the XXX scenarios, and all the Season 2, two and three parters since those are series):

Season 0

#1 Silent Tide
#2 Hydra's Fang Incident
#3 Murder on the SIlken Caravan
#4 Frozen Fingers of Midnight
#6 Black Waters
#8 Slave Pits of Absalom
#13 The Prince of Augustana
#14 The Many Fortunes of Grand Master Torch
#17 Perils of the Pirate Pact
#24 Decline of Glory

Season 1

#33 Assault on the Kingdom of the Impossible
#37 The Beggar's Pearl
#39 Citadel of Flame
#42 The Pallid Plague
#45 Delirium's Tangle
#47 Darkest Vengeance
#55 The Infernal Vault

Season 2

#2-13 Murder on the Throaty Mermaid
#2-21 The Dalsine Affair

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, Canada—Quebec

Hi,

First, thank you for GMing for PFS.

I do understand your frustation, I deal with most of the same problems in Quebec City. We have 1 table most weeks, geting close to 2 about half the time. we get new peoples on a regular basis and are replaying a lot of 1-5 adventures from last year to get peoples to at least lvl 3.

Many good suggestions in the tread but I will add my grain of salt.

1) Use an internet planing site and encourage peoples to reserve their spot on the table. We use a facebook group to discuss and linked facebook events to plan the games. Their is a lot of other free solutions, just use something. This helps in a lot of ways. You can know in advance if you need a second GM, peoples will know what will be played, if their is a cancelation you will get a lot less frustrated players...

2) Try to have an optional GM prepping a low level adventure in advance and bring what he need to run it. If you get to many peoples, last minute walk-ins or peoples who already played an adventure, the optional GM can step in and his character get GM credits.

3) For your main adventure, alternate 1-5 stuff and higher level adventures. The week you have higher level stuff, mix high enough characters with pregens. At some point, peoples will start to get lvl 4, add credits from pregens and jump to 5 quickly and so on.

4) For possible low level adventures, I will only add that sanctioned modules, especially some of the Free RPG Day can be mixed with your regular PFS modules. We be goblins look especially fun.

5) Contact me ! I am VC for Quebec City, but I know you are missing someone for Montreal and I will help if I can.

Andoran ***

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Michel Lepage wrote:
3) For your main adventure, alternate 1-5 stuff and higher level adventures. The week you have higher level stuff, mix high enough characters with pregens. At some point, peoples will start to get lvl 3, add credits from pregens and jump to 4 quickly and so on.

Just one minor correction:

When playing a pregen in a higher tier scenario, you have two options for how to take the credit for it.

1) Drop the GP to 500, get normal XP & PP, along with the actual access earned by the party in the scenario.

2) Hold the chronicle for an existing, lower-level PC, who can take credit for the scenario/add the chronicle to their PC when the PC is the same level as the pregen that they played.

Means that they can't take the chronicle onto a PC until they hit 4th or 7th level...

Modules are similar, as long as the modules include the pregen's level in their play choices, and the gp for the module drops to 1,398 for a 3 XP module.

Remember slow play affects the gp for 1st level PCs...

Andoran *

Well i will chime in on this one, since it has affected me with signing up for his games. The problem is very simple. It isn't the games rules or PFS rules that are the problem. Florian is a good DM and game organizer, But he likes to run the PFS authorized multi-part modules, instead of the single session scenarios. Which there is nothing wrong with that. I appreciate that he offers those. That is why he is running into this problem. Plus there has been a shortage of GM's, The FLGS's he runs at are well known stores. One is a great place to run games and is RPG friendly, the other not so much on the RPG friendly side. It has a bad floor plan, and the staff there isn't always the most knowledgeable about PFS. It is mostly a CCG/TCG venue.

There are other area FLGS's that still offer PFS scenarios, that his regular players can attend. Another issue is that the region of play is in Montreal, Quebec, Canada. So sometimes the groups are split due to a language barrier, French, English or even better a frenglish mix.

*

Yes, at some point the experienced PFS players must create new PCs. My home group had to do it when we became 4th level. At my local store each player has several PCs in the level 1-4 range.

If you play weekly, you're going to run out of scenarios eventually. At the local store, they play weekly, but they make it work by having everyone experienced also GM.

If you have 3 tables, you can always do 1 low level table, 1 high, and 1 other subtier.

You should look at some of the threads, there's a wealth of experience setting up PFS.

I don't have the PFS numbers, but I sometimes wonder why there aren't more tier 1-5 scenarios published when they seem to get a lot more play than tier 7-11.

****

kinevon wrote:
1) Drop the GP to 500, get normal XP & PP, along with the actual access earned by the party in the scenario.

I'm pretty sure you can only do that if you're starting a new character with it.

Malehavoc's Revenge wrote:
Florian is a good DM and game organizer, But he likes to run the PFS authorized multi-part modules, instead of the single session scenarios.

I think there's some confusion here. He says he's run all the "non-series tier 1-5 scenarios." Mike, on the other hand, says that only scenarios from seasons 3 and 4 have been reported on FlorianF's account, and listed 19 others to consider (while leaving several out). You are now saying you're running out of "multi-part modules," which are completely different.

You also cite his issues as being a lack of play space and a language barrier for games, neither of which speaks to his original assertion that it's PFS rules holding him back. Finally, if there is a shortage of GMs, players need to start GMing. It's really that simple. "Being a GM" isn't some mystical quality, you just pick up a scenario and run it. Being a good GM is something you achieve through practice, which requires that first step of picking up a scenario and running it.

... and that's still not a problem with PFS rules, it's a problem with people not volunteering to maintain the scene that they want to be a part of.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, Canada—Quebec

kinevon wrote:
Michel Lepage wrote:
3) For your main adventure, alternate 1-5 stuff and higher level adventures. The week you have higher level stuff, mix high enough characters with pregens. At some point, peoples will start to get lvl 3, add credits from pregens and jump to 4 quickly and so on.

Just one minor correction:

When playing a pregen in a higher tier scenario, you have two options for how to take the credit for it.

1) Drop the GP to 500, get normal XP & PP, along with the actual access earned by the party in the scenario.

2) Hold the chronicle for an existing, lower-level PC, who can take credit for the scenario/add the chronicle to their PC when the PC is the same level as the pregen that they played.

Means that they can't take the chronicle onto a PC until they hit 4th or 7th level...

Modules are similar, as long as the modules include the pregen's level in their play choices, and the gp for the module drops to 1,398 for a 3 XP module.

Remember slow play affects the gp for 1st level PCs...

You are right, I corrected my post, thank you :)

Grand Lodge *

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Patrick Harris @ SD wrote:
Finally, if there is a shortage of GMs, players need to start GMing. It's really that simple. "Being a GM" isn't some mystical quality, you just pick up a scenario and run it. Being a good GM is something you achieve through practice, which requires that first step of picking up a scenario and running it.

This is a really good point because I think the existence of living campaigns like PFS make it much easier than it used to be to jump into GMing. It takes a lot of work to put together an adventure or campaign of your own creation, but if you have an already created module then someone else has helped you with a bunch of that work. If you are particularly nervous about being a first time GM then I would suggest:

1. Pick a module that you have played before as a player. You've seen that mod before, so even before you start prepping to GM you have a rough idea of what's supposed to happen.

2. Make sure there is a friendly, experienced player at the table with you who can help you answer rules questions when they come up. Nobody has the rules memorized for everything, so don't be afraid to ask "Does anyone remember the penalty for fighting with your shoelaces tied together?"

I feel like GMing is one of those tasks where, if one person has to do it all the time, it becomes kind of a nuisance and that person gets burnt out. However, if it gets shared between a bunch of people then nobody actually has to do it that much and everyone gets a chance to play their characters in addition to sitting behind the screen. We have a good system for rotating GMs in my local gaming group, which I think is one of the reasons why we keep going strong. It sounds like that is not always the case in other areas . . .

Andoran ****

I feel your pain. I started my FLGS PFS group back in May and its now expanded to two nights. Every once and awhile I get someone new show up or a curious friend of a player and suddenly we have overflow at the table with only 1 GM prepped to run a scenario.

What I usually do is let them play a pregen - I always bring a selection to have on hand, or give them my email and try to set something up for the future.

This has mostly worked and the group I started has started splinter groups of their own in several other locations.

Shadow Lodge ***

Issues relating to this have been discussed before, when the module rules changed.

Here's a brief excerpt explaining the problem.

Pirate Rob wrote:

lets say you've got 4 players that have been chugging along and 3 of them have level 4 characters, and one has a level 3 character.

Along comes a new player. Rather than have the new player play up at tier 4-5 (something discouraged by the guide) The 4th level players are responsible and make brand new characters.

The player with the 3rd level character thinks hmmm I'm going to be playing with a bunch of lvl 1s I might as well make a new character as well instead of playing down.

These players have a jolly time for about 2 months (say 8-9 scenarios) with little bobby only showing up half time. Then another new player shows up. The original players now have 2 lvl 3/4 characters, the previous new player has a 4th level character and little bobby has a 2nd level character. Well little bobby can keep playing his character but the other players make new 1st level characters to play with the new players.

Basically if you're only running 1 table, and are welcoming of new players you'll never get to tier 5-9 and eventually run out of scenarios for the consistent players to play.

Andoran ** Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Fayetteville

I think the only way a FLGS-based PFS group can keep pulling in new players is to have more GMs.

That means that if you started the group, and you're the only GM, cultivating and coaching new GMs should be high priority for you. Look to your experienced players, especially those with good rules-fu, as prime candidates--but don't discount new players who express an interest in GMing.

Shadow Lodge *

It has almost nothing to do with cultivating new GMs, because there generally aren't enough people to make a second group in the first place.

The issue is almost entirely the fact that the small FLGS groups only get one new person every couple months. That means the consistent group needs to reset every couple months until we hit 7 players 1 GM, and can finally start looking at splitting it up to 3 players 1 GM in two groups (hardly an ideal situation either). This is especially a problem for my location, since we don't even have the room for two groups in our FLGS =\. Something we may be able to work out with the owner.

My location started out with two groups in January, lost one group (with the other being at 4+GM) entirely due to various issues, then started gaining roughly one member every 3 months (and losing two members along the way).

Someone just joined our group two weeks ago, so we've reset again. The GM and I are the longest playing members at our location (I started at the beginning of January, and he before even that), and neither of us have a single character above level 5, even though we've been playing once a week since January.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Nebraska—Omaha aka Belarias

Are any of your players willing to GM?

ive found this frees up a few Scenarios usually, especially if they are gming a scenario they've played but the other players have not.

Grand Lodge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales Subscriber

It is sad to see this topic resurfacing every few month again. I'm not expecting a new poster to go searching the web - so here is my personal summary of things I read in the past and what you might / might not expect.

1) ask for help early. Something like this develops over time. Don't wait until you are close to giving up / are upset about the whole situation as it becomes much more difficult to rectify and you are less likely to listen to well intended advice.

2) don't expect PFS to change for you. Paizo does listen - and a lot has been done in regard to this situation - but these are slow and gradual changes. Examples are that module play is allowed, replay for modules of tier 1-2, replay for First Steps, slow development track. All of these are changes that help lessen the impact of the problem - but they can't solve it.

3) the underlying problem is that certain playing patterns are not long term sustainable. I once went through the effort to build mathematical models to show some play patterns that will lead to lack of low tier scenarios / never reaching higher levels. I showed that randomly accepting every player leads to this issue - but if you shape play patterns then the problem can be vastly lessened.

So what are solutions?

Be active - not reactive with players or scenarios.

Say no occasionally to heavy players. Push upcoming players up the ladder. Split the group into a higher tier / lower tier group with occasional overlap.
Ensure players have > 1character. Take advantage of PreGens. Yes - a low level player can play a tier 4 or 7 pregen to get his first XP for his second character if this allows a higher tier table to happen. A high level player can go slow development / starts another character. A module allows to go up a complete level. Have extra sessions with players that need to catch up. Try to get low level players to a convention to kick start them.

And I probably missed a lot of other good advice. And it depends on your situation what part of the advice works / what doesn't.

I'm not saying it is easy. It takes times, effort, you sometimes will disappoint someone because he will have to give it a pause or only gets second choice. But you aren't alone in the problems. And long term it is worth it to preservere.

Game on and good luck, I hope it isn't too late and we lost you already. That would be tragic.

Taldor ***

Once you have a character hit lvl 4 or 5 you need to start a new lvl 1 if you don't already have one. This will ensure you always have a character able to play in a variety of tiers.

Also as many have said, start pushing older players to start taking up the GM role. Its not hard and with a little coaching many should find it pretty easy as long as they have a bit of PF rules knowledge.

**

Well guys thanks a bunch for the advice. My feeling is not on giving up but feeling constrained by the PFS system and thinking about less PFS and more straight PF (which we're already doing as well) - though I see how PFS strcutred play has helped building up a lively game scene as well.

The reason why it's not obvious from the reports that "the collective" has played lots of scenarios is that we have a couple old-timers in the mix who all together have played lots of older scenarios, so we have to shoot for the season 3-4 and we're running out.

I retain your great suggestions and encouragment.

I am indeed currently setting up a registration system. We'll see how it fares. I wonder if there has been plans from Paizo to integrate such a feature on the website? That would be a tremendous addition, esp as it could integrate the list of scenarios everyone has played and their PCs levels...

We will likely try to alternate high level / low level every other week, that may help a lot. But I still like to play modules as they're more involving and require less prep hours per game hour.

Lastly, I'll indeed try to encouraging more players to DM because right now it's the #1 issue, rather than any PFS-system issue.

Qadira *** Venture-Captain, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Thorkull

FlorianF wrote:
I am indeed currently setting up a registration system. We'll see how it fares. I wonder if there has been plans from Paizo to integrate such a feature on the website? That would be a tremendous addition, esp as it could integrate the list of scenarios everyone has played and their PCs levels...

If you're looking for a turnkey game registration solution, I suggest you check out Warhorn. Best of all, it's free!

Andoran ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Anoka

1 person marked this as a favorite.
FlorianF wrote:

Well guys thanks a bunch for the advice. My feeling is not on giving up but feeling constrained by the PFS system and thinking about less PFS and more straight PF (which we're already doing as well) - though I see how PFS strcutred play has helped building up a lively game scene as well.

The reason why it's not obvious from the reports that "the collective" has played lots of scenarios is that we have a couple old-timers in the mix who all together have played lots of older scenarios, so we have to shoot for the season 3-4 and we're running out.

I retain your great suggestions and encouragment.

I am indeed currently setting up a registration system. We'll see how it fares. I wonder if there has been plans from Paizo to integrate such a feature on the website? That would be a tremendous addition, esp as it could integrate the list of scenarios everyone has played and their PCs levels...

We will likely try to alternate high level / low level every other week, that may help a lot. But I still like to play modules as they're more involving and require less prep hours per game hour.

Lastly, I'll indeed try to encouraging more players to DM because right now it's the #1 issue, rather than any PFS-system issue.

Should tell the old timers that if they want to participate until you can get folks high enough to play the higher level scenarios, they need to start helping GM all those scenario's they've already played.

***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Some great advice here. I would also look getting those more experience players into trying to GM.

Take them through the GM credit system; GM credits can be great to build their next low tier character. Look at the modules with replay credits (the ones that can be played over and over for credits - you can still only apply on credit to each character, of course ).

If you can find one or two of the players and let them GM, the idea isn't to burn yourself out. The trick is seeing the desire and giving them the skills to help you out and the the initiative (be an assistant GM the first time - or have them GM a home game for you first) Some of us here needed the push to step, we didn't know we'd be a good GM (well I did but I enjoy telling stories... and I am a bit weird ).

First Steps is really good - the wands with <50 charges are great and are great value at any level.

Master of the Fallen Fortress: nice simple, easy to run.

We be Goblins: takes some time to prepare and it's crazy - crazy good fun - I have got more than a few first-timers hooked on this!

The great thing about these are you can always have them with you and have your spare GM run it if required.

Good luck mate - let us know how you go.

Taldor ***

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Something else you could do, Florian, is to have dedicated 5-9 tables, on days where the seats are reserved for your 5-9 players. You don't have to have every table open to the masses. This sort of thing is essential to getting out of perpetual low-level play.

Then, you can float an incentive to GM low-level games. The people who GM for you can be given first-choice of which modules and Subtiers get run at the 5-9 sessions, and can be guaranteed a seat.

Then, you'll have a solid incentive to do some GMing.

-Matt

*****

3 people marked this as a favorite.

You could also have a specific low-level night, ask a few of the old-timers who are good with new players to replay a scenario -- no they won't get credit, what they'll get is the knowledge that they are helping to strengthen the PFS play in your area.

By helping newer/low-level players that just in turn creates a stronger player base.

Taldor **** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

Personally, I am a new player to Pathfinder, but one thing that I have personal concerns about is the impact of character death on the ability of groups to organize higher-level PFS tables. If you finally get a group of four PCs who are level 5, and you want to break out those higher level scenarios, then one gets killed...you're looking at months until you can get that player back up to speed. Personally, I would recommend allowing a player whose character died to create a new character of the same XP, but lose their PP, gold, equipment, etc. I understand that many people think that it would lessen the "excitement" of the game (an argument that I personally don't put a whole lot of stock in), but I think it's necessary to either do that or shift to a publishing model of 3/4ths Level 1-5 scenarios, with only a handful of higher-level scenarios published yearly. To increase the impact, it could be required that the new character is of a different race and class than the previous one.

Cheliax *** Venture-Captain, Virginia—Richmond

Mattastrophic wrote:

Something else you could do, Florian, is to have dedicated 5-9 tables, on days where the seats are reserved for your 5-9 players. You don't have to have every table open to the masses. This sort of thing is essential to getting out of perpetual low-level play.

Then, you can float an incentive to GM low-level games. The people who GM for you can be given first-choice of which modules and Subtiers get run at the 5-9 sessions, and can be guaranteed a seat.

Then, you'll have a solid incentive to do some GMing.

-Matt

Matt's right on the ball with this, this is precisely what we do in Norfolk. Our main saturday games have 2 low and one high(er) table with about 6-8 folks that rotate behind the screen. Other than that...What BrocK said.


Netopalis wrote:
Personally, I am a new player to Pathfinder, but one thing that I have personal concerns about is the impact of character death on the ability of groups to organize higher-level PFS tables. If you finally get a group of four PCs who are level 5, and you want to break out those higher level scenarios, then one gets killed...you're looking at months until you can get that player back up to speed. Personally, I would recommend allowing a player whose character died to create a new character of the same XP, but lose their PP, gold, equipment, etc. I understand that many people think that it would lessen the "excitement" of the game (an argument that I personally don't put a whole lot of stock in), but I think it's necessary to either do that or shift to a publishing model of 3/4ths Level 1-5 scenarios, with only a handful of higher-level scenarios published yearly. To increase the impact, it could be required that the new character is of a different race and class than the previous one.

If you've got a set group, they should be able to pool enough resources to res the poor unfortunate who got deaded.

Taldor **** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

Funky Badger wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
Personally, I am a new player to Pathfinder, but one thing that I have personal concerns about is the impact of character death on the ability of groups to organize higher-level PFS tables. If you finally get a group of four PCs who are level 5, and you want to break out those higher level scenarios, then one gets killed...you're looking at months until you can get that player back up to speed. Personally, I would recommend allowing a player whose character died to create a new character of the same XP, but lose their PP, gold, equipment, etc. I understand that many people think that it would lessen the "excitement" of the game (an argument that I personally don't put a whole lot of stock in), but I think it's necessary to either do that or shift to a publishing model of 3/4ths Level 1-5 scenarios, with only a handful of higher-level scenarios published yearly. To increase the impact, it could be required that the new character is of a different race and class than the previous one.
If you've got a set group, they should be able to pool enough resources to res the poor unfortunate who got deaded.

I don't have a set group - my local chapter meets weekly with 2 tables, so I might be playing with the same people as last week, and I might not be. Also, while *I* have saved a good bit of my money, I know that most of the other characters at the table are cash-strapped. I also am unsure if many of them would be willing to do so.


Netopalis wrote:


I don't have a set group - my local chapter meets weekly with 2 tables, so I might be playing with the same people as last week, and I might not be. Also, while *I* have saved a good bit of my money, I know that most of the other characters at the table are cash-strapped. I also am unsure if many of them would be willing to do so.

There's your issue, right there (the last clause)... its always possible to sell stuff off to raise cash etc.

[Edit:] not sure if its possible, but pooling PPS to pay for a raise should be allowable as well...

Grand Lodge *****

Funky Badger wrote:
... not sure if its possible, but pooling PPs to pay for a raise should be allowable as well.

Prestige Points are favors that your individual character has earned. It is not possible to pool favors between characters even if they belong to the same Faction.

Andoran ***

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Netopalis wrote:
Funky Badger wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
Personally, I am a new player to Pathfinder, but one thing that I have personal concerns about is the impact of character death on the ability of groups to organize higher-level PFS tables. If you finally get a group of four PCs who are level 5, and you want to break out those higher level scenarios, then one gets killed...you're looking at months until you can get that player back up to speed. Personally, I would recommend allowing a player whose character died to create a new character of the same XP, but lose their PP, gold, equipment, etc. I understand that many people think that it would lessen the "excitement" of the game (an argument that I personally don't put a whole lot of stock in), but I think it's necessary to either do that or shift to a publishing model of 3/4ths Level 1-5 scenarios, with only a handful of higher-level scenarios published yearly. To increase the impact, it could be required that the new character is of a different race and class than the previous one.
If you've got a set group, they should be able to pool enough resources to res the poor unfortunate who got deaded.
I don't have a set group - my local chapter meets weekly with 2 tables, so I might be playing with the same people as last week, and I might not be. Also, while *I* have saved a good bit of my money, I know that most of the other characters at the table are cash-strapped. I also am unsure if many of them would be willing to do so.

Assuming that the player whose PC died wasn't being totally stupid, or that their character doesn't die every gaming session, there is a fairly good option, and this is from someone who hates to give up money for other people's raises.

Remember that, at that level range, you are each getting a fairly substantial amount of money in the scenario, or even, sometimes, during the scenario.

Just GMed a game yesterday, and my 4th level PC got 1,800 gold for sub-tier 4-5 of a Tier 1-5 scenario. That's a fair amount of cash, and that is from the lower end. A sub-tier 5-6 reward, of a Tier 5-9 scenario, seems to reward around 2,500 gold.

Even for a 4 player party, while it would hurt, each player's donation, for equal shares, would only be 1,362.5 GP. For a 6 player party, each share would only be a little under 910 gold apiece.

That is assuming that the PC doesn't have the 16 PP saved up, and ignores the costs, either in gold or PP, of the two needed Restorations (1,380 gp or 4 PP each).

And, of course, at higher levels, the cost of a Raise Dead becomes even more trivial, and, indeed, between high level Clerics who can cast it themselves, and just keeping a scroll of it handy, a death during a scenario becomes little more than a speed bump.

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