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RPG Superstar 2015

Samaran bonus spell question


Advice


I am playing a Samsaran Summoner (non synthesis. The Samsarans have the following amazing racial:

•Mystic Past Life (Su) You can add spells from another spellcasting class to the spell list of your current spellcasting class. You add a number of spells equal to 1 + your spellcasting class's key ability score bonus (Wisdom for clerics, and so on). The spells must be the same type (arcane or divine) as the spellcasting class you're adding them to. For example, you could add divine power to your druid class spell list, but not to your wizard class spell list because divine power is a divine spell. These spells do not have to be spells you can cast as a 1st-level character. The number of spells granted by this ability is set at 1st level. Changes to your ability score do not change the number of spells gained. This racial trait replaces shards of the past.

My GM has ruled that this applies to spells in the Witch, Ranger and Wizard spell list. With this said, what would be your choices of additional spells? I have 4 total. Our group consists of a Cavalier, a life Oracle and a Ranger (bow) currently. My Eidolon will be made to be major contributor to the melee front line.

It is also to be noted the character is lv 8 (replacement character) and playing in the Jade Regent adventure path.

Star Voter 2015

I find it really bizarre that he gave you Witch, Ranger, and Wizard. Ranger doesn't belong there and he should also have given you Magus and Bard. Summoners are arcane casters after all.

Since you have access to Ranger spells, though, and they're both fairly exotic and offer a lot of early entries, I'd definitely suggest taking your spells mostly from their list.

Entangle is one of the best control spells in the game (and is good for 20 levels). I'd say Barkskin and Magic Fang, but apparently you already get those. Oh, I'm a fan of Spike Growth and Plant Growth, but I can understand someone else being uninterested.

I don't know the Summoner's list well enough to know what they're missing--I'll have to look at this later.


Witch, ranger and wizard because they share spells with the Summoner class and because these classes are arcane/Int based.


1. Strong Jaw (Ranger, 3rg Level) will push the damage from you eidolon up a lot.
2. Lockjaw (Ranger, 3rd Level) an other nice eidolon buff
3. Something for you 1st Level slot that deals damage Magic Missle or Shocking grasp from the Wizard 1st spell level.
4. Good Hope if Bard is allowed

The spell selection depends a bit on the things you want to do with your summoner... Archer, Caster(Buff/Debuff), caster (Blaster) or Melee.

Venomous Bolt and Gravity Bow (Ranger, 3rd) -> Archer
Shocking grasp + Spellstoring weapon, Lead Blades, Brow Gasher -> Melee
Fireball as Blaster
Good Hope -> Buff

Giving you the ranger list opens so much options. I hope you GM knows that he makes a strong class now realy powerfull and that he gives the other players some goodies like this, too.

Breiti


Some people misinterpret this, so I figured I'd just mention this: The trait doesn't grant you additional spells known. It simply grants you additional choices for what spells to choose from.

Star Voter 2015

Taason the Black wrote:
Witch, ranger and wizard because they share spells with the Summoner class and because these classes are arcane/Int based.

Flip! What the zip?

The Summoner is arcane and Charisma based.

The Ranger is divine and Wisdom based.

"The spells must be the same type (arcane or divine) as the spellcasting class you're adding them to."

That is the only restriction (there's nothing about casting stat there), and Ranger violates it.

If your GM wants to go by casting stat, then you should not get the Witch (as that is Int based), but should get Bard (which is also Charisma base).

If, instead, you follow the actual rules, you should definitely get access to the Bard, Magus, Sorcerer/Wizard, and Witch lists, and maybe the Safir-Afiyun.


Summoners get the buff and utility spells and are typically non direct damage based casters.

Where the kicker is the late game. Mirror Image and such comes to mind but how effective is that at the late game? Direct damage spells like chain lightning not sure if its really that effective if its your one damage spell. Typically they rely on the summoned critters and the Eidolon to do the damage front stage while standing back in support and eidolon heals.

Im leaning towards:

1) Strong Jaw (Ranger3) - Two size damage increase to the Eidolon claw attacks? Sign me up!

2) Enervation (Wiz 5)- 1d4 levels with a zap. Bye bye highest level spells with no save! Buddy if you dont like this, I dont know what to say.

3) Mirror Image (wiz 2) - a bunch of duplicates in the case of something comes for you is a good choice. However, Summoners get blur and Displacement so not sure if this is a great choice. Besides, without blasting the crap out of things, one shouldnt be that high on the kill priority list

4) Dominate Person or Chain Lightning - Hmmm control the big bad melee thing thats whapping on your group or blast the bejesus out of everything?


Are wrote:

Some people misinterpret this, so I figured I'd just mention this: The trait doesn't grant you additional spells known. It simply grants you additional choices for what spells to choose from.

Agree.


mplindustries wrote:
Taason the Black wrote:
Witch, ranger and wizard because they share spells with the Summoner class and because these classes are arcane/Int based.

Flip! What the zip?

The Summoner is arcane and Charisma based.

The Ranger is divine and Wisdom based.

"The spells must be the same type (arcane or divine) as the spellcasting class you're adding them to."

That is the only restriction (there's nothing about casting stat there), and Ranger violates it.

If your GM wants to go by casting stat, then you should not get the Witch (as that is Int based), but should get Bard (which is also Charisma base).

If, instead, you follow the actual rules, you should definitely get access to the Bard, Magus, Sorcerer/Wizard, and Witch lists, and maybe the Safir-Afiyun.

Its a confusing thing because Summoners share many of the other classes spell list. Not sure what is the actual correct ruling on this. For now, the GM is allowing it. How do you not allow Wizard when Summoner is highly Arcane? What about Witch? And once you add Witch, you add healing spells. Many of the ranger spells appear on the Summoner spell list so that opens up Rangers. See what I mean?

Star Voter 2015

Taason the Black wrote:
Its a confusing thing because Summoners share many of the other classes spell list. Not sure what is the actual correct ruling on this. For now, the GM is allowing it. How do you not allow Wizard when Summoner is highly Arcane? What about Witch? And once you add Witch, you add healing spells. Many of the ranger spells appear on the Summoner spell list so that opens up Rangers. See what I mean?

The correct ruling is what I stated. You get access to all arcane spells. That means you should be able to pick from the Bard, Magus, Sorcerer/Wizard, and Witch list.

The GM is bizarrely restricting you from taking Magus and Bard spells, while bafflingly giving you access to Ranger spells that you shouldn't have access to. Since he's not following the rules, run with it and take the good Ranger spells like Entangle and Strong Jaw.


The correct ruling is that you pull from the Arcane caster spell lists: Sorcerers/Wizards, Magus, Witch, Bard.

If you're going by casting stat instead, then since the Summoner is Charisma-based, you should draw from Sorcerers (and thus Wizards), Bards, Paladins, and Oracles (and thus Clerics).

Ranger makes no sense at all. I have no idea what your GM is doing but it seems like your GM hasn't actually read Mystic Past Life or the Summoner or the Ranger.

Marathon Voter 2014

Just take Lead Blades and be super stoked that you can.


Ok Im down with doing the right thing. Soooooo with this in mind, we roll from Wiz, Magus, Witch, Bard spells.

This guy isnt a melee guy with his 8 str. What are your suggestions for spell choices?

Star Voter 2015

Roberta Yang wrote:
Ranger makes no sense at all. I have no idea what your GM is doing but it seems like your GM hasn't actually read Mystic Past Life or the Summoner or the Ranger.

Well, way back in the early days of D&D, the Ranger was an Int based arcane caster who used spells from the Magic User list. And the Summoner was just a specialist Wizard (and was thus Int based). Of course, there was no Witch...

I don't know, unless this ruling got garbled in an old school mixer, I'm with you--I have no clue what the GM is thinking.

But once again, that doesn't mean you can't take advantage of it--Ranger spells are really good because they're such limited casters.


mplindustries wrote:
Well, way back in the early days of D&D, the Ranger was an Int based arcane caster who used spells from the Magic User list. And the Summoner was just a specialist Wizard (and was thus Int based). Of course, there was no Witch...

Witches were described in Dragon magazine issues #5, #20, #43, and #114.


From the bard list we have:

Ear piercing sream (bard 1) sonic damage and possible daze.
timely inspiration (bard 1) immediate action that lets you add a bonus to your eidolon attacks and skills
blindness/deafness (bard 2) harsh on spellcasters
cacophonous call (bard 2) nauseates (ie no standard action) for 1 round/level
suggestion (bard 2)all kinds of fun
cacophonous call, mass (bard 5) nauseates (ie no standard action)lots for 1 round/level

and those are off the top of my head.


if you can't find something worthwile from the wizard list, you are just not trying.

The ranger list has various cures, lots of personal buffs, and summon natures ally, which you otherwise can't get.

Also note that you can cast personal spells on your edilon. Also you can cast spells that target non-outsiders even though the eidolon is an outsider. (so lots of those animal companion spells)

Star Voter 2015

On the topic of bard spells, Sculpt Sound is an awesome and underrated spell that can selectively nullify any enemy spellcasters' verbal components. I think most people stop reading after the first line and miss how great it is.

You may also want to consider several of their early entry spells. Confusion or Charm Monster, for example, as 3rd levels. Freedom of Movement is great and both Ranger and Bard lists.

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