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Carrion Crown with friends, need class suggestion.


Advice


buddy of mine is setting up a game for the adventure path, i'm stumped for a character to play.

probably something holy-y (cavalier, cleric, paladin), maybe a ranger or something.

the one of the other players is a half-orc inquisitor, and another is thinking of trying an oracle (maybe-possibly-perhaps), as well as a magus.

only bans thus far are creating your own races and gun-stuff.
anyone got any ideas?


Do you know what roles they plan on playing? Melee, ranged, or caster?


oracle player prefers ranged castery-types, magus'll probably be a switch hitter, and inquisitor has been quite vocal about being a melee damage-dealer.

thinking on it, maybe something mobile, like a vital strike battle cleric.


after some discussion with the others i think i'll go with a polearm-wielding paladin, focusing on moving around, hitting hard, and generally being as helpful/as much of a nuisance to enemies as I can be. any suggestions as to how to best go about this?


You have two melee including the Magus then.

The Oracle is a good choice, so you have healing.

I'm in chapter two right now...a rogue is okay but if you take the trait that gives disable device as a class skill it's good enough.

You need another range monkey, I heavily suggest another Inquisitor, range based, high on the monster lore skills and perception, which is what I'm playing with Cayden as the deity and the travel domain. OR a Sorceror...though it sounds like your Magus has arcane covered.


AndIMustMask wrote:
after some discussion with the others i think i'll go with a polearm-wielding paladin, focusing on moving around, hitting hard, and generally being as helpful/as much of a nuisance to enemies as I can be. any suggestions as to how to best go about this?

I think a paladin is a great choice for this group and this AP.

A two-handed weapon is definitely the way to go with a Paladin. I'm curious why do you want to use a polearm, in particular? Not that there's anything wrong with polearms, I'm just curious. (One thing I like about Paladins is that they're not generally feat-bound to a specific weapon.)

If you're interested in mobility, making a mounted paladin is a great way to go. Your heavy armor doesn't slow you down while mounted, and a mounted lancer has a great combination of mobility & reach.

Taldor

If the GM would allow it, a Bow Paladin will go quite far.


I second the Divine Hunter Paladin archetype for a ranged Paladin, but I'd also really think about going with an Undead Scourge Paladin archetype. If you can't tell already by the name of the AP, this is full of UNDEAD, so you may want to try to make the most out of the character and absolutely destroy undead.


Blueluck wrote:
AndIMustMask wrote:
after some discussion with the others i think i'll go with a polearm-wielding paladin, focusing on moving around, hitting hard, and generally being as helpful/as much of a nuisance to enemies as I can be. any suggestions as to how to best go about this?

I think a paladin is a great choice for this group and this AP.

A two-handed weapon is definitely the way to go with a Paladin. I'm curious why do you want to use a polearm, in particular? Not that there's anything wrong with polearms, I'm just curious. (One thing I like about Paladins is that they're not generally feat-bound to a specific weapon.)

If you're interested in mobility, making a mounted paladin is a great way to go. Your heavy armor doesn't slow you down while mounted, and a mounted lancer has a great combination of mobility & reach.

on polearms: picked them mostly because reach--i usually play archers or gunners (lurve me some ranged attacing), so this is a step down into "mid-range" for me. i can still position myself to be the biggest and most annoying target--taking advantage of my tankiness and good saves, by being in the thick of things, plugging charge lanes to squishy teamates or simply moving to support them, aooing people who try to ignore me, on top of the standard paladin team and self goodness--while still threatening people i move away from.

TheLoneCleric wrote:
If the GM would allow it, a Bow Paladin will go quite far.

why would the GM ban something that's in the game? it'd leave divine hunter paladins (paladins who are specifically archers) and musketeer cavaliers (challenge and guns, which is a fairly similar setup) in the lurch methinks.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Well, if the other guy is taking magus and not oracle, and you want to french-fry undead:

Aasimar cleric of Sarenrae with Sun and Glory domains
Get +1/2/level damage using channel energy (aasimar favored class)
Get +1/level damage from domain using channel energy
Ignore channel resistance
Charisma bonus
Wisdom bonus
Traits: Birthmark

Switch celestial resistance to negative energy resistance.


whoops, made a thread when it could've saved space just getting added here!

Quote:

It's basically a cookie-cutter "castigator" paladin from bodhi's guide (with a few twists)

current setup is:

Aasimar (angel-blooded)
eventually: paladin 17 / two-handed fighter 3 (staggered in at 6th, 10th, and 14th levels)

current stat spread (20 point-buy):
str - 18
dex - 12
con - 14
int - 10
wis - 8
cha - 16

alt. racial features:
scion of humanity
deathless spirit

traits:
chance savior
dangerously curious

feats:
1 - Power Attack
3 - Furious Focus
5 - Combat Reflexes
6* - Vital Strike
7 - Step Up
9 - Critical Focus
10* - Following Strike
11 - Strike Back
13 - Step Up and Strike
15 -
17 -
19 -

*- fighter bonus feat

current idea is a naive-altruist worshipper of sarenrae (i dont plan on using detect evil in normal or social situations unless specifically pressed to) who takes advantage of reach (a bardiche i suppose, but any polearm will do) and tries to move around to support teammates and hinder enemies. would be near-equally effective with a falchion if i can squeeze in lunge somewhere (maybe trade out crit focus).

Any ideas/advice?


Unless I missed something... you have zero Channelers in that group... Thats going to hurt in Carrion Crown. Alot.


paladins can channel (at great cost, but whatev), and iirc oracles can too (life i think)

I'm actually going to posit darkwarriorkarg's cleric idea to the others and see if they'd like to play it, since it'd be a waste not to.


You might want a rogue or somebody good with traps through the first and second modules. Don't know about the rest of the AP.

A paladin might be trouble in some spots if you decide to play any particular code of conduct that grates with a country full of fearful, suspicious and insular townsfolk.


I'll keep traps in mind, thanks for pointing that out.

I'm planning on going the "naive good guy" route, so mostly he'll just be downhearted at people's reluctance to accept his help. shouldn't be too many problems there.

Taldor

You could do my Cleric with a gun idea. High Wis mixes well with Grit.

Cheliax

Dragonamedrake wrote:

Unless I missed something... you have zero Channelers in that group... Thats going to hurt in Carrion Crown. Alot.

I'm of the opinion that channelers make the adventure path a lot less fun. Playing a ghostbuster kinda ruins the point of the adventure path where you're supposed to be scared of the ghosts.

You could play a paladin of Shelyn. Her favored weapon is the glaive. And playing a paladin of courtly love sounds fun.


TheLoneCleric wrote:
You could do my Cleric with a gun idea. High Wis mixes well with Grit.

unfortunately, guns have been banned by the GM (since he's still kinda shaky on the "guns in fantasy" thing).

also, divine hunter paladin with a level of mysterious stranger (or MS/pistolero, since that hasn't been errata'd yet) works very nicely off of cha for smiting with gunshots (also you don't lose out on tons of things like the holy gun archetype).


Victor Zajic wrote:
Dragonamedrake wrote:

Unless I missed something... you have zero Channelers in that group... Thats going to hurt in Carrion Crown. Alot.

I'm of the opinion that channelers make the adventure path a lot less fun. Playing a ghostbuster kinda ruins the point of the adventure path where you're supposed to be scared of the ghosts.

If by being scared you mean having a group of people with zero ability to affect alot of the challenges in the module do to a lack of channeling... then yeah. You will be scared... and probably making new characters often.

Possible Spoiler(not really though):
My first trip through Carrion Crown we had 3 character deaths in the first dungeon crawl alone. We didn't have any channelers to begin with either. After all the deaths we had 3 characters that could channel(Cleric, Hombrew Inquisitor with channels, and a NPC). We still almost TPK'ed on the final encounter.


hmm... some buddies of mine have suggested i avoid playing a paladin, since there are some fairly questionable things you have to do in this AP (a golem and vampires were spoken of, but they didn't elaborate further on grounds of spoilers), so i may take the cleric route instead.


AndIMustMask wrote:
hmm... some buddies of mine have suggested i avoid playing a paladin, since there are some fairly questionable things you have to do in this AP (a golem and vampires were spoken of, but they didn't elaborate further on grounds of spoilers), so i may take the cleric route instead.

As a cleric you will be the parties best friend. Period.


I'm playing a build like that in a ROTRL game. Not optimized for that AP, obviously. In fact, he's non-combat (str:10, Dex:8, con: 10) and strictly support (aid another, flank, obscuring mist, bless, traded in aasimar abilities for linguistics talent and a permanent comprehend written languages from Blood of Angels... for the languages, feat is scribe scroll, future feats will be item creation to builds stuff for the group.

GM was kind enough to have us encounter a ghoul/cleric of Lamashtu with a small army of zombies and ghouls. (party has alchemist, gunslinger, fighter, rogue and wizard and my cleric). It was a defensive setup (defend the village)

I positively enjoyed spamming Channel energy and having zombies burn up (the alchemist lobbing bombs from the rooftops helped with that too)

Nearly died (ghoul cleric claw/bite paralysis+disease), but it was awesome :-)

Fortutude saves suck and I have a perverse joy in rolling an initiave of 0 (which works as a support guy):-)

Cheliax

Dragonamedrake wrote:
Victor Zajic wrote:
Dragonamedrake wrote:

Unless I missed something... you have zero Channelers in that group... Thats going to hurt in Carrion Crown. Alot.

I'm of the opinion that channelers make the adventure path a lot less fun. Playing a ghostbuster kinda ruins the point of the adventure path where you're supposed to be scared of the ghosts.

If by being scared you mean having a group of people with zero ability to affect alot of the challenges in the module do to a lack of channeling... then yeah. You will be scared... and probably making new characters often.

** spoiler omitted **

I've banned cleric in the carrion crown game I'm running, and it's really emphasised the survival horror aspect of the game. Starting book 4, and have had 4 pc deaths so far, two in the first book, 1 in the second book and 1 in the third.

Channeling is not required to complete the adventure path, and being low level in a prison full of ghosts that are very difficult to damage really ups the whole "horror" feel of the path. Which is, in my personal opinion, the whole damn point of the Carrion Crown AP.

Paladins having tough/interesting moral choices is part of the fun of playing a paladin. Having a reasonable downside to being a beacon of holy power makes for a more interesting game.

If you want an easy time in the adventure path, especially the first book, play a cleric, but to me that doesn't sound like very much fun.


Victor Zajic wrote:
Dragonamedrake wrote:
Victor Zajic wrote:
Dragonamedrake wrote:

Unless I missed something... you have zero Channelers in that group... Thats going to hurt in Carrion Crown. Alot.

I'm of the opinion that channelers make the adventure path a lot less fun. Playing a ghostbuster kinda ruins the point of the adventure path where you're supposed to be scared of the ghosts.

If by being scared you mean having a group of people with zero ability to affect alot of the challenges in the module do to a lack of channeling... then yeah. You will be scared... and probably making new characters often.

** spoiler omitted **

I've banned cleric in the carrion crown game I'm running, and it's really emphasised the survival horror aspect of the game. Starting book 4, and have had 4 pc deaths so far, two in the first book, 1 in the second book and 1 in the third.

Channeling is not required to complete the adventure path, and being low level in a prison full of ghosts that are very difficult to damage really ups the whole "horror" feel of the path. Which is, in my personal opinion, the whole damn point of the Carrion Crown AP.

Paladins having tough/interesting moral choices is part of the fun of playing a paladin. Having a reasonable downside to being a beacon of holy power makes for a more interesting game.

If you want an easy time in the adventure path, especially the first book, play a cleric, but to me that doesn't sound like very much fun.

since its just me and three other guys shooting the s+@# every tuesday afternoon, it's not that big a deal if it's "easy" or not. I'm also fairly certain that even with what advantages i'd have at frying undead: not everything is undead. also, being able to save my buddies in a prison full of ghosts thanks to my divine powers sounds pretty fun to me, especially since i'm aiming to be "help everyone: the guy".


Victor Zajic wrote:


If you want an easy time in the adventure path, especially the first book, play a cleric, but to me that doesn't sound like very much fun.

Obviously we have very different opinions on what is fun... or "Challenging". If it works for you and your group then great. But in my opinion, lacking the resources to fight an encounter doesn't make a game more fun (or scary/challenging). It would just frustrate me with the DM.

There are far easier ways to challenge a party and convey a sense of dread then by handicapping your party.


AndIMustMask wrote:
since its just me and three other guys shooting the s*$# every tuesday afternoon, it's not that big a deal if it's "easy" or not. I'm also fairly certain that even with what advantages i'd have at frying undead: not everything is undead. also, being able to save my buddies in a prison full of ghosts thanks to my divine powers sounds pretty fun to me, especially since i'm aiming to be "help everyone: the guy".

Yeah there is a ton of upside like you describe. And alot of RP hooks for a Cleric. Enjoy. Im glad you found what your looking for.

Cheliax

Dragonamedrake wrote:
Victor Zajic wrote:


If you want an easy time in the adventure path, especially the first book, play a cleric, but to me that doesn't sound like very much fun.

Obviously we have very different opinions on what is fun... or "Challenging". If it works for you and your group then great. But in my opinion, lacking the resources to fight an encounter doesn't make a game more fun (or scary/challenging). It would just frustrate me with the DM.

There are far easier ways to challenge a party and convey a sense of dread then by handicapping your party.

I think we're having a disconnect here around the concept that "no channeling" equals "lacking the resouces to fight an encounter". There are many ways to deal with the ghosts in the first book that don't involve channeling. Many of these options are built straight into the module, but holy water by itself will get you pretty far.

I also am having some trouble wrapping my head around the idea that "no cleric(or channeler)" equal "handicapping". Are you suggesting that Pathfinder, as a game, assumes that someone will be playing a paladin, cleric, or life oracle, for purposes of determining challenge level? Because I've played in/ran for many groups that don't include a channeler, and none of them seem handicaped compared to the groups that do include a channeler.

The adventure path is not "undead only", but it is definitly "undead heavy", especially the first book. The adventure path takes it's story pretty seriously too, so I'm not sure I would choose to run it for a casual game like you're describing, but I've always been partial to Gothic Horror since I discovered Ravenloft back in the 90's, so I'll admit I'm heavily biased.

So I guess what I'm saying is that Cleric goes very well with the desire to be the guy who helps everyone out, but it doesn't go very well with the concept of "We're playing a horror game because we like being scared and want something different from the usual Tolkien-based fantasy treatment." That's my advice, since it was asked for. Take it as you will.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
AndIMustMask wrote:
TheLoneCleric wrote:
You could do my Cleric with a gun idea. High Wis mixes well with Grit.

unfortunately, guns have been banned by the GM (since he's still kinda shaky on the "guns in fantasy" thing).

also, divine hunter paladin with a level of mysterious stranger (or MS/pistolero, since that hasn't been errata'd yet) works very nicely off of cha for smiting with gunshots (also you don't lose out on tons of things like the holy gun archetype).

Does he run campaigns in Golarion?

If so, how does Alkenstar work?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
AndIMustMask wrote:
TheLoneCleric wrote:
You could do my Cleric with a gun idea. High Wis mixes well with Grit.

unfortunately, guns have been banned by the GM (since he's still kinda shaky on the "guns in fantasy" thing).

also, divine hunter paladin with a level of mysterious stranger (or MS/pistolero, since that hasn't been errata'd yet) works very nicely off of cha for smiting with gunshots (also you don't lose out on tons of things like the holy gun archetype).

Does he run campaigns in Golarion?

If so, how does Alkenstar work?

it works like the party members don't have any of their tech.

Taldor

Hi

My char is an Aasimar Oracle of Life (Fav Class bonus to Channeling). with one lvl of Cleric with (think) Sun & Healing Domains.

She's currently Oracle 6/Clr 1 of Sarenrae. Cha 20

Channel 6/Day for 5D6. 8/Day for 1D6

That's 38D6 channelling per day at 7th lvl! :P

Thanks
Paul H
PS This is in effect a playtest for my PFS 'Healbot' char


Carrion Crown is pretty well written and enjoyable AP. We are about 3/4's done with it.

Might ask your GM to check these forums, there are parts of it that some GM's exaggerate the difficulties suggested in the module that can make it nearly impossible or at least lessen the fun. Many GM's like to tinker and adjust the module alot. This one of the ones that I think that is less needed than usual for a decent balanced group. Undead are also one of the monsters that it is fairly easy for the GM to accidentially put something in that the party can't beat. But that is a totally different subject.

Thinking about what I can say without spoiling anything in the AP for you. I think it is fairly safe to say that everyone realises there are tons of undead and necromancers.
That means you will need a way to remove conditions. Abilities reduced, negative levels, curses, poisons, diseases, blindness, etc... are all possiblities with those opponents.

possibly small spoiler:
Remember to consider how you will handle incorporeal opponents. Many players do not expect to encouter these until mid levels when they will have more spells and/or ghost touch weapons. You WILL encounter them earlier than that.

Based upon my limited experience playing through the AP and what I have read or heard about it:

Life oracle with channel, reach cure spells, and energy body (undead blaster not a healbot role)
High charisma cleric (for the channels)
Undead scourge paladin

Are far and away the most useful classes for combats in this AP.

Don't let the group get too hyper focused on undead. There are other things. But I would roughly guess better than half are undead. And most of the really dangerous fights have been undead.

However, remember there is also a significant amount of social interaction and investigation necessary. So these abilities need to be covered. Occasionally stealth is very helpful.

The other option I have considered but not seen tried would be a neutral (or maybe even evil) necromancer, negative channeling cleric, bones oracle, etc... To take over and use all the undead encountered. But that could get to be a lot of working figuring out how to modify things for the GM to still kinda hold to the story line without the party becoming the ultimate enemy. So check with your GM before you put too much effort into this approach.


Victor Zajic wrote:

...

I've banned cleric in the carrion crown game I'm running, and it's really emphasised the survival horror aspect of the game. Starting book 4, and have had 4 pc deaths so far, two in the first book, 1 in the second book and 1 in the third.

Channeling is not required to complete the adventure path, and being low level in a prison full of ghosts that are very difficult to damage really ups the whole "horror" feel of the path. Which is, in my personal opinion, the whole damn point of the Carrion Crown AP.

Paladins having tough/interesting moral choices is part of the fun of playing a paladin. Having a reasonable downside to being a beacon of holy power makes for a more interesting game.

If you want an easy time in the adventure path, especially the first book, play a cleric, but to me that doesn't sound like very much fun.

I would be very careful with this advice. IF you have a group of very good players (including the GM) that have a lot of meta game knowledge about what they can and can't do with undead, ghosts, and haunts; then yes it is a good way to make it challenging. If you don't have a group like that, it is a recipe for disaster.

Spoiler:
When we started playing this one we were all pretty new to PF and a few of us were new to RPG's in general. We had all read how a cleric healer is not necessary.
Through the first book and about half the second we got clobbered. The GM exagerated some of the difficulties written into the book. But we also didn't know some of the things that could be done. And many of the things that could be used were not available for purchase and/or we didn't have the funds.
It was frustrating not fun. We were very close to quitting the AP and couple of the guys were close to quiting PF. The GM gave some extra items and one of us remade into an undead blaster PC. Things became much better after that. Still challenging, but possible.


My first character in Carrion Crown was a witch with the hedgewitch archetype. We didn't have a cleric at the time so it fit in nicely. She used control spells like grease and hit things with a quarterstaff. Also, beguiling gift was great for trying to get the uptight paladin to put on this ugly hat...
I found it to be a nice balance between control and support. Its too bad she died late in the 2nd book, but it was mostly my mistake. Squishy casters should not get into melee with things larger than themselves.


I am going to spoiler this a lot.

1) Human:

Reason:

+2 Cha
Ethnicity: Jadwiga
2 feats at level 1, Specifically:
Tribal Scars: (+6 HP, Raptorscale: +5 Land speed, +2 Acrobatics)
Fey Foundling: +2/HD healing received. (You will be receiving a LOT of healing...)

Traits:
Sacred Conduit (+1 to DC of channels)
Chance Savior: (+2 Initiative)

2) Stats:
12 Str, 14 Dex, 14 Con, 10 Int, 8 Wis, 18 Cha.

Reason:

This is a combat capable healer Oracle/Paladin(Hospitaler) Cha is leaps and bounds above the rest in terms of Import.

3) Classes: Oracle (3) Paladin(Hospitaler) (17)

Reason:

1 Level Paladin (to maximize 1st level HP) will net you 10+2+6+1=19 hp at level 1. (Favored Class).

2 Level Oracle of Life, Clouded Vision curse, because seeing long distances isn't so important in the dark, but darkvision is. Channel Revelation. You can now Channel Positive Energy 5x day for 1d6. DC against Undead is 10+1 (1/2 Oracle level, minimum 1) +4 (Cha Mod) +1( Trait) = 16. Heals Allies 1d6, Damages undead 1d6, heals self 1d6+2. 25 HP average.

3 Paladin, Gain Cha to saves, so the low Wis is no longer an issue. Gain Lay on Hands, Extra Revelation Feat to gain Life Link. 32 hp

4 Oracle of life. 38 hp

5 Hospitaler Feat=Toughness. 50hp

6 Hospitaler gain cleric channels! Woot! 58hp

7 Oracle of Life. Revelation: Energy Body. 65 hp.

8+ Hospitaler. 73hp+12*8hp. . .

Why the focus on hps? You can lifelink up to three allies. You heal up to 15 points of damage/round from the linked people, and you take up to 15 points of damage, in addition to the damage being dealt to you.

The Hospitaler will give you channel positive energy as a cleric equal to your hospitaler level -3. (3+cha mod)/day

Hospitaler gains Lay on Hands as normal, so (1/2 Paladin level+cha mod)/day, and you can expend two lay on hands to channel as per normal.

Oracle grants channel (1+Cha Mod)/day.

At level 7, you have 6 lay on hands, 5 1d6 channels, and 7 2d6 channels/day. . . and you just started getting paladin spells.

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