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Spellslinger


Rules Questions


So, during game tonight an argument came up, and my group asked me to get clarification from the all powerful devs.

So here it is: the Spellslinger archetype for the wizard class allows the character to, "cast any ranged touch attack, cone, line, or ray spells through his arcane gun." Does that allow the character to then, per say, take 1 level in Spellslinger and 19 levels in witch, and cast their witch spells that are ranged touch, cone, line, or rays through their arcane gun?


No.

To be able to pick archtype for wizard, you would actually need to have wizard levels.. and then pick the archtype.

Sczarni

I disagree it specifically says "any spell"

Sczarni

for relevancy

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
MacGurcules wrote:
Okay, so the armor proficiencies aren't actually feats. How about using the fighter class feature to swap bonus feats granted by other classes? That's still legit, right?
I'd allow it. Though the classes are written in the context of just referring to that class, there are elements of permissive language in other parts of the game that allow for some weird crossovers like that. For example, the mnemonic enhancer spell allows you to prepare additional spells, but doesn't say they have to be wizard spells...

the source


Laerlorn wrote:

No.

To be able to pick archtype for wizard, you would actually need to have wizard levels.. and then pick the archtype.

Levels in an archetype are levels in the related class. That's how it replaces all those 1st level wizard features.

And the rules text for the archetype does indeed not specify that any spell cast through the gun must be on the wizard spell list, or that any other feature requires wizard spells to be used to activate them.

In fact, since I've played a Spellslinger, I encourage you to check out all the things you can do with the archetype, as going straight Spellslinger levels will be a bit painful in the beginning.


To add a bit more there are plenty of class abilities that call out only for that class like magus spell combat calls out from the magus spell list.

That is added to prevent cross over that is much like this case. Since this one does not prohibit it then yes it is legal.


I stand corrected;

You got 1 level Wizard (Spellslinger) & 19 levels Witch. I got confused.. sorry.

I'd ask your GM directly. I could rule it both ways, but lately I have preferred fun over un-needed strickness in my campaign.

Tho, you can hope to have developers to have a say about it.. but for these situations I think you are expected to relay on your GM.

If your GM says no, unlucky for you (he probably has a good reason for it). If he has a habbit of saying no to every cool idea you got, you might want to look another group/GM to play with.

Sczarni

the spell slinger is such a horrid archetype anyhow, I would actually let more things get improved by it, like AE spells. Although I'd apply the four school restriction to any spell coming out of it.


I think that "any" is the key word there. I don't think there's really any ambiguity in that. You can cast ANY ranged touch attack, cone, line, or ray spells through your Arcane gun (which you have to specifically attune I believe?).

I see no reason why that "any" would exclude Witch spells.


While I agree that Spellslinger is a pretty crappy archetype, I wouldn't allow the Arcane Gun and Mage Bullets abilities to work with spells from outside of the Wizard class. First, because it follows the general pattern established by class abilities that they don't effect spells cast from other classes. (Caster Levels don't stack, spell slots can't be filled across classes, arcane bonded items, etc.)

The second reason is that the acquiring the Arcane Gun and Mage Bullets abilities requires sacrifices, Arcane Bond and Arcane School (and two extra schools of magic) respectively. The Witch levels would continue to increase in power (particularly spellcasting ability) without sacrificing anything.

Sczarni

while you're indeed correct blueluck, there's nothing raw that says that.

I did however say as a GM I'd allow it and just require the school restriction on the witch.


Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
lantzkev wrote:

while you're indeed correct blueluck, there's nothing raw that says that.

I did however say as a GM I'd allow it and just require the school restriction on the witch.

I think Blueluck is refering to RAI.

Pathfinder was built to prevent this sort of build: "pick just 1 level in one class to obtain advantages". It was the bane of DD3.5.
I think as Blueluck that it goes against the spirit of the rules.


lantzkev wrote:
while you're indeed correct blueluck, there's nothing raw that says that.
Defraeter wrote:
I think Blueluck is refering to RAI.

Defraeter is right. I was speaking in RAI terms.

lantzkev wrote:
I did however say as a GM I'd allow it and just require the school restriction on the witch.

That seems like a pretty reasonable trade-off. I love a good custom ruling when appropriate!

Defraeter wrote:
Pathfinder was built to prevent this sort of build: "pick just 1 level in one class to obtain advantages". It was the bane of DD3.5.

Yep:) Just what I was spotting.


Eh, this isn't any different than Wizards taking one level of Crossblooded Sorcerer. I don't see the harm. There are way fewer spells that qualify than you'd think.


Funny. There's another thread out there where everybody seems to be saying what a cool archetype spellslinger is.

Including myself.

Because it is.

And you're all crazy.

Plus, wrong.


Our GM has already ruled on the issue. However other members of the group wanted me to ask here out of curiosity. I would like to thank you all for your opinions as well.

As for the issue of more fun over rules restrictions, we have had issues in the past with players who have gone.... shall we say overboard with things and derailed games. So we now have a tendency to be a little more restrictive.

But yes, our GM picked up the Rise of the Rune Lords Anniversary Edition and wanted to run it, so a few of us have come together to play through the revised adventure path. So far we are two sessions in and I've taken the most damage out of any of the PC characters. It's going quite well all things considered.

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