Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

RPG Superstar 2015

As a player, would this piss you off?


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

101 to 150 of 191 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>

cnetarian wrote:
a permanent deathward belt buckle would only cost about 184,000G....

Scarab of Protection, 38,000 gp. Expensive, given that it only works 12 times, but wearable in the bathtub. Just make sure your GM agrees that Death Ward kicks in first.


To add to this if the caster was only 14th level he could afford the scroll. He just needs someone to help him with the creation of it, since. If he can not create magic items then he would have to be level 17.


It might shock me, for a bit and like any PC death it might lead to a campaign derailing. However it wouldn't really make me all that upset since at the end of the day the spell essentially does a bit over 100 Hit Points of damage. A 100 point damage round isn't that unusual for a 9th level martial character to generate at 9th level let alone 14th level.

Liberty's Edge Star Voter 2013

It would depend on the answer to one question.

Was there a reason?

Was there a story based reason that NPC had that scroll and decided to use it at that time.

If so, no it wouldn't bother me. If not, it would.

And before anyone asks, no I don't need to know what the reason is, I just need to trust my GM enough to know that there is a reason.

And if I don't, I need a new GM.


I think it's a worthwhile question. The spell is there in the book, you can make and UMD a scroll of it. So asking the question "is this really OK?" is a good one to ask.

PW:K is quite an anti-climactic way to die. Someone says the word and it's over. That's not really the glorious end you have in mind for a hero. Other, similar-level spells that have roughly the same chance of killing you do it in a more graphical way - burning, disintegration, petrification, withering away - that's all more heroic than just hearing a word and keeling over.

Mind, PW:K is a nice spell, and it can be really badass to just look at someone, mutter something, watch them fall over, and walk away. That's definitely a nice way to show off. But I think it's better (more satisfying) to use that against monsters/NPCs, whether it's done by PC or friend or foe. For example, they're confronting the lich, and the lich just PW:K's a cohort of the party, and then asks the party if they really want to fight him. Killing someone really offhand is nice, but killing PCs offhand not quite so much.

So if a no-name mook spellcaster did it out of the blue, I'd be pissed yeah. However, it's different if you have buildup to it. Imaging the following unfolding of events:

The party's been after the Lich Lord, and are about to attack one of his outposts. They know it's guarded, and after gathering rumors, hear that the lich has been giving out scrolls with deadly spells to his lieutenants.

The party infiltrates the outpost, and confronts a wizard and some mooks. The mooks screen the wizard and keep the fighters busy, while the wizard looks at the party with the appraising eyes of a butcher, trying to guess which one of them is fit for the slaughter. With an evil smirk, he pulls out a scroll and reads it; one soft word that somehow everyone hears, and the party's own wizard keels over dead.

Here it's been hinted at beforehand that the enemy has overpowered scrolls; you don't have to say exactly which spells, but the fact that they're abnormally strong should be there like a Chekhov's Gun.

Also, the GM demonstrated how he knew just which PC probably had low enough HP for the spell to work. If the villain just KNOWS, without doing anything (that the players know about or suspect), it'd have the nasty taste of GM metagaming.

Finally, the evil smirk of the wizard also makes it less random and anonymous; this is an actual bad guy enjoying his power trip.

Oh, and liches are immune to PW:K, so they'd have fewer scruples giving it to minions.


Ravingdork wrote:
Gauss wrote:

RD: a level 14 npc has 27,000gp. A lvl 9 scroll is just a fraction of this. CRB p453 states that leftover gp from a category may be spent on any other category. Because of this it is reasonable for a lvl14 wizard to spend some gold from weapons on something else, like a 9th level scroll.

- Gauss

Tell that to the player whose character was just assassinated. :P

Except we can’t, as no PC was actually harmed. This never happened.

I have a better hypothetical. Let us say the PC’s choose the wrong entrance into a known very dangerous dungeon. “Rocks fall, everyone dies”. Bad DMing, right?

Tell that to the ghost of Gygax, it’s from one of the greatest dungeon adventures ever written.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ascalaphus: That's pretty much the way I (eventually) envisioned the scenario, except that there was no rumor or forewarning of "scrolls with deadly spells" being handed down.

It makes perfect sense that a lich lord might do something of the sort, and a GM would--in the context of the story and rules--be perfectly justified in doing such a thing, but that doesn't change the fact that it will probably piss certain people off.

wraithstrike wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

According to the NPC creation rules, NPCs should not have expendable magic items, such as scrolls, of 9th-level spells until they are level 17 or thereabouts.

That means the earliest you should expect this without GM finagling is around level 16, where you would be regularly facing CR 16 encounters.

Probably safe to say the caster mook got the scroll from the BBEG, but since you could normally cast 8th-level spells at level 16, it's coming out of the blue a little early in this particular scenario.

(Also, I want it known that I don't create these kinds of threads just to mess with people, but rather to better gauge appropriate GM behavior and player reactions on a large scale--so as to be a better host in my own games.)

That is not true.

Quote:
Limited Use: Items that fall into this category include alchemical items, potions, scrolls, and wands with few charges. Charged wondrous items fall into this grouping as well.
There is a chart here

A 9th-level scroll is nearly 4,000gp and, according to your table, only a 17th-level NPC has enough to put that kind of dough towards limited use items. I was not wrong in my statement.

Sure a GM could shift that around, but then he is clearly going against the rules' guidelines and no one should be surprised when an otherwise balanced encounter becomes a skewed encounter.

EDIT: And I'm not sure where you are getting 14th-level from. If you are basing your remarks off an NPC's TOTAL wealth, then they could potentially get it as early as 7th-level. Good luck convincing your players that sending them against 9th-level spells before 10th-level was a smart move.


Ashiel wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Having your long time character suddenly snuffed out by a Power Word: Kill spell from the GM? No save, no chance to avoid. Nothing. Just an unceremonious collapse unto death in front of "Enemy Spellcaster A."
No. There are reasons for spells like raise dead. People fighting things of godly power die.

My only complaint with this statement is that it's a very lossy proposition for the group given the cost of the raise dead component and the potential difficulty of having that money available.

My current 11th level group has it, sure, but we've been specificially given the diamond dust over the course of 3 or 4 adventures and several months of gaming. And at that we only have materials for one such spell.

For equivalent costs, the guy crafting PW:K scrolls (or buying them from the vending machine around the corner) is going to outpace the party's ability to bring people back pretty quickly.


Quote:

A 9th-level scroll is nearly 4,000gp and, according to your table, only a 17th-level NPC has enough to put that kind of dough towards limited use items. I was not wrong in my statement.

Sure a GM could shift that around, but then he is clearly going against the rules' guidelines and no one should be surprised when an otherwise balanced encounter becomes a skewed encounter.

EDIT: And I'm not sure where you are getting 14th-level from. If you are basing your remarks off an NPC's TOTAL wealth, then they could potentially get it as early as 7th-level. Good luck convincing your players that sending them against 9th-level spells before 10th-level was a smart move.

I misread your statement, but my 14th level caster comment was pretty clear, and the misreading of your statement still does not come into play. The reason follows.

from a previous post wrote:
To add to this if the caster was only 14th level he could afford the scroll. He just needs someone to help him with the creation of it, since. If he can not create magic items then he would have to be level 17.

If the scroll rules don't require you to know the spell, and only add +5 to the DC he won't even need someone with access to the spell. That is how the 14th level caster can afford it. He has 2,500 gp to spend on consumable items.

To be clear I said 14th level NPC because you said he was a standard enemy for a party that does not have 8th level spells. The party could still potentially have access to 7th level spells meaning they are around level 13. That makes a 14th level NPC a CR 13 opponent, and therefore a standard encounter.

edit:I don't know why you thought I was thinking of the party being below level 10.

Marathon Voter 2014

The OP's case would annoy me, as a player. Dying should really only be caused by bad luck with the dice or bad decision-making on the part of the player. Apart from the player's decision to play in the campaign or to be in the presence of evil caster npc guy, I'm not sure what else he could have done to prevent this from happening.

If I couldn't see an alternate decision I could have made to avoid the death, or if that %$&#%&@#$% purple d20 I own didn't murder yet another character of mine with multiple 1's in a row, then...I'd be super-chap'butt'd, yeah.

If I wanted bad things to happen for no reason out of the blue that I have no control over whatsoever, I'd just call that game session "real life".


Does all of this stuff you report really keep happening to you, Ravingdork, or are you just prone to getting worked up about what-ifs?

I'm not trying to start a fight. I'm genuinely interested.


I spotted this right away as a pure hypothetical, but it would be nice to see something like "Hypothetical:" at the start...
Two ways this could work:
(1) Have an enemy do this (when the party are to low level to be able to do much about it), then teleport out: a shocking moment that creates an immediate hated villain. Make sure the players are in a position to do a Raise Dead - maybe they've just found a treasure horde, or maybe the local cleric will do it if the group agrees to do them a favour in return.
(2) Foreshadow it. The party are asked to investigate the theft of a Power Word: Kill scroll. They get a description of the perpetrator, perhaps finding he belongs to a guild of assassins, then discover that the guild of assassins has a contract against them. Later they meet the guy who stole the scroll. Roll initiative. At this point, if they're sensible, they'll come up with a quick plan to protect the group before he can use the scroll (invisibility, 10 foot radius?). Or they might engage in a battle where they are desperately trying to keep everyone's hit points above 100 at all times.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My only question at something like this happening (and I've been playing since the early 80's -- and had many characters die for even more trivial reasons), is why would a BBEG who is supposed to be "E" actually trust one of his minions with firepower of that magnitude. It could quite easily be turned on him.

Sidious never trusted Vader with that kind of power, for obvious reasons. No BBEG I would ever play (as my character) would trust a minion unless he was fully dominated and once that happened, spellcasting or magic item use is pretty much out of the question.

Roleplaying-wise, there would have to be some major justification in play.


to OP: Naw. But the cleric sure gets angry when he loots a bag of holding, and finds out its a bag of devouring and instantly dies right before the boss fight. Luckily the oracle survived long enough to use the bag on the boss, and since we were doing favors for a deity the cleric got ressed. Oh, we were 7th level when this happened.


In my games I have a house rule that says:

Based on ECL, a player can never cast a spell, even from an item, that he would not normally be able to cast. For example, A 9th level rogue can't make a Use Magic Device check to use a 7th level spell scroll, though a 5th level spell scroll might work.

Frankly I don't know why this even NEEDS to be a house rule; it's obviously overpowered for a UMD user to be able to cast a higher level spell than a wizard of the same level. In my opinion, it's a dangerous exploit (as the OP's example has pointed out) and I don't allow it.

But to do it as a GM? That's just exploiting the rules to put the players in a BAD predicament (not to mention it's unfair to the victim). I'd table flip + rage quit.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:

CONTEXT

Scenario: Hypothetical PC/NPC battle (not a "murder in the market" as it were)
Level: Low enough that the party doesn't have 8th-level spells, much less 9th-level spells; coming back from the dead possible, but costly or otherwise highly inconvenient
Enemy: Generic spellcaster (of the faceless stormtrooper variety) with a scroll, not the BBEG and not high enough to cast 9th-level spells in his own right

Plenty of ways to avoid that. Don't blow your Perception check to act in the surprise round. Win initiative. Interrupt the spell. Sunder the scroll. Have more than 100 hp. SR. Scarab of protection. The list goes on.

Also, players can buy scrolls, too.

Totally fair play.

Dark Archive

Charlie Bell wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

CONTEXT

Scenario: Hypothetical PC/NPC battle (not a "murder in the market" as it were)
Level: Low enough that the party doesn't have 8th-level spells, much less 9th-level spells; coming back from the dead possible, but costly or otherwise highly inconvenient
Enemy: Generic spellcaster (of the faceless stormtrooper variety) with a scroll, not the BBEG and not high enough to cast 9th-level spells in his own right

Plenty of ways to avoid that. Don't blow your Perception check to act in the surprise round. Win initiative. Interrupt the spell. Sunder the scroll. Have more than 100 hp. SR. Scarab of protection. The list goes on.

Also, players can buy scrolls, too.

Totally fair play.

Death Ward has thrown more than one wrench into plans involving such spells.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

Wow. Lot of entitlement in this thread.

Would you also get upset if instead of a Power Word Kill it was another form of 100 damage?

What if you got pushed of a cliff and died from fall damage?

What if a Cavalier rode by and hit you with a Lance for that much?

Or any number of spells, attacks, abilities, that could easily render someone with 100 HP dead.

Can the PC do the exact same thing? Yes, they can use Power Word Kill. Keep in mind there is no NPC section and PC section for spells and such. If it's allowed by one it's allowed by all.

Sometimes death isn't glorious. Sometimes your being heroic and that damn ghoul paralyzes you and eats your flesh. Or that caster hit you with a Hold Person and you can only watch as they cave-in your skull.

Could the PCs become enraged if the same exact spell they could use is used against them? Sure, but if they did they would be babies. Unless the group has decided to turn the game to easy mode or is using house-rules then expect what is in the rules to happen.

(I also assume most groups are mature enough to handle defeat or loss. If not them perhaps a different game like Candy Land is in order.)

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Sinatar wrote:
Frankly I don't know why this even NEEDS to be a house rule; it's obviously overpowered for a UMD user to be able to cast a higher level spell than a wizard of the same level.

Because it is a staple of fiction to have characters that attempt to use items they don't understand or are too weak to use safely in order to win. The Paizo team thinks having that in the rules is more important than any balance concerns.

Silver Crusade

Brain in a Jar wrote:

(I also assume most groups are mature enough to handle defeat or loss. If not them perhaps a different game like Candy Land is in order.)

I knocked a guy out once for getting to Grandma Nut's house before I did.

Wasn't pretty.


SmiloDan wrote:
A scroll of instant death? Kind of like fighting 20 kobold adepts with 20 wands of lightning bolt with 1 charge each. Weak sauce.

I just had a horde of kobolds attack my party...this just might be happening, muahahahaha

Star Voter 2013

Depends on the game and the GM.

I've been completely ticked off when I ran into a catoblepas with its head in a support sling (so it could constantly death gaze 24/7) who death gazed me through my horse in a 2nd Edition D&D game.

I was completely ok with a different GM telling me to roll up a new character when I opened the front door of an office building as I had just been killed by a sniper in a CyberPunk 2020 game.

I can't even tell you how many random random, gory, or nonsensical deaths have occured to my poor Paranoia characters (pro-tip: never piss off the cleanliness officer if you want something other than NSFW deaths).

It all comes down to managing expectations & communication, just like almost any other aspect of gaming.

-TimD


At level 14 (CR higher than 4 is supposed to be hard)), only a d6 class doesn't have enough HP to be immune.

A caster able to use 4th level spells going up against ones with only 7ths has FAR nastier things he could do. He doesn't even need to blow a 9th level to kill a lesser Wizard: He will have ~+11 fort save (+4 class +2 con mod and +5 cloak) while the BBEG's "mere" Flesh to Stone is a minimum of DC24 (+6 spell level, +5 int, +3 from headband), requiring a roll of 13 to beat (and that's before spell focus, heightens or other DC boosters)

Now a scroll at lower levels? Only a CR 16 "boss" can afford it by the NPC WBL.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Ravingdork, you do not need a 17th level NPC to afford a 9th level scroll. I showed this upthread. A 14th level NPC has 27,000gp. More than enough to purchase that 9th level scroll. There is NO requirement that you follow the category limits.

CRB p453 wrote:
Table 14–9 includes a number of categories to make it easier to select an NPC’s gear. When outfitting the character, spend the listed amount on each category by purchasing as few items as possible. Leftover gold from any category can be spent on any other category. Funds left over at the end represent coins and jewelry carried by the character.

It makes no sense for a level 14 NPC Wizard to spend 9,000 on weapons (unless he happens to be a major wand user). So most of that money goes to other areas. Purchasing a level 9 scroll is well within his total resource limitations.

- Gauss


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
wraithstrike wrote:
If the scroll rules don't require you to know the spell, and only add +5 to the DC he won't even need someone with access to the spell. That is how the 14th level caster can afford it. He has 2,500 gp to spend on consumable items.

Ah, you're talking about him crafting it himself, with someone else contributing the spell. Gotcha.

For some odd reason, I was thinking NPCs couldn't purchase items for their crafting costs with their starting funds.

Bruunwald wrote:

Does all of this stuff you report really keep happening to you, Ravingdork, or are you just prone to getting worked up about what-ifs?

I'm not trying to start a fight. I'm genuinely interested.

It's about 50/50 really happened/what-ifs, but thankfully, I haven't had anything to really complain as of late (in regards to our games).

Brain in a Jar wrote:
Wow. Lot of entitlement in this thread.

Now you've gone and done it.

Brain in a Jar wrote:
What if you got pushed of a cliff and died from fall damage?

Requires a successful bull rush against my CMD first.

Brain in a Jar wrote:
What if a Cavalier rode by and hit you with a Lance for that much?

Requires a successful attack roll against my AC first.

Brain in a Jar wrote:
Or any number of spells, attacks, abilities, that could easily render someone with 100 HP dead.

Most grant a save to reduce or negate their effects first.

Power Words have no such hurdles to bypass. They simply work. The only thing that can save you is an ability that isn't even meant for PCs (SR) or having HP (which is inconsequential when talking about wizards with 19+ intelligence).

Brain in a Jar wrote:
Can the PC do the exact same thing? Yes, they can use Power Word Kill.

Most GMs I know aren't going to let PCs buy scrolls of spells two spell levels higher than they can cast willynilly, so no, PCs can't (often) do things like this.

Brain in a Jar wrote:
Could the PCs become enraged if the same exact spell they could use is used against them? Sure, but if they did they would be babies. Unless the group has decided to turn the game to easy mode or is using house-rules then expect what is in the rules to happen.

Context matters. If the PCs are throwing such spells around all the time (or are high enough level to do so), they shouldn't be surprised if the enemy uses it against them. If such a thing happens at a lower level, unexpectedly, you can bet certain people out their will have a fit over it.

Gauss wrote:

Ravingdork, you do not need a 17th level NPC to afford a 9th level scroll. I showed this upthread. A 14th level NPC has 27,000gp. More than enough to purchase that 9th level scroll. There is NO requirement that you follow the category limits.

- Gauss

I'm well aware of that Gauss. Nevertheless, if you don't at least loosely follow those rules guidelines (splitting up the gold in the appropriate categories), you can easily end up with skewed characters with skewed gear in skewed encounters with skewed balance.

It's like saying "there's nothing in the rules against ambushing the party with 20 kobolds each with a single charge wand of lightning bolt"--that doesn't change the fact that it is skewed, unbalanced, and you shouldn't do it.


It occurs to me that I did not answer the question. It depends on the social contract at the table. If the death represents another day in hell, then maybe. If its a harsh change of pace, then probably not.

Star Voter 2013

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:
Ascalaphus: It makes perfect sense that a lich lord might do something of the sort, and a GM would--in the context of the story and rules--be perfectly justified in doing such a thing, but that doesn't change the fact that it will probably piss certain people.

Emphasis mine.

Precisely. I think the answer to this question is more about players than GMs. I did state this upthread, but I'll mention it again.

Plenty of people drive 5mph under the limit. This pisses off many people. Many other people think it's great that they're driving carefully. I'm sure those slow drivers think they're making the best decision.

So whether or not you get pissed at slow drivers is really about you.

Whether or not you get upset when your character in an imaginary game gets offed by a spell (who'd a thought it?) is also really about you. Not the GM.

"I'm pissed off about this" is not a statement about this, it's a statement about you.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Something to consider is that this situation is very similar to a player running a jerk character.

Even if the NPC has every reason to do so, even if it makes perfect sense for him to choose that cast that spell, it is ultimately the DM's choice to have the character do so. He should consider why he is purposefully killing that PC off and how his player will react to such a thing.

'Just playing the character' is not enough by itself. Not for a player, not for a DM.

Silver Crusade Star Voter 2014

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

Implosion or bust.


Quintain wrote:

My only question at something like this happening (and I've been playing since the early 80's -- and had many characters die for even more trivial reasons), is why would a BBEG who is supposed to be "E" actually trust one of his minions with firepower of that magnitude. It could quite easily be turned on him.

Sidious never trusted Vader with that kind of power, for obvious reasons. No BBEG I would ever play (as my character) would trust a minion unless he was fully dominated and once that happened, spellcasting or magic item use is pretty much out of the question.

Roleplaying-wise, there would have to be some major justification in play.

It depends on how evil works in your games. I see no problem with evil cooperating with each other just as good people do. If you are not on their team you are out of luck though. It is just like a group of people willing to harm anyone not in the group, but they never harm the group itself.


Sinatar wrote:

In my games I have a house rule that says:

Based on ECL, a player can never cast a spell, even from an item, that he would not normally be able to cast. For example, A 9th level rogue can't make a Use Magic Device check to use a 7th level spell scroll, though a 5th level spell scroll might work.

Frankly I don't know why this even NEEDS to be a house rule; it's obviously overpowered for a UMD user to be able to cast a higher level spell than a wizard of the same level. In my opinion, it's a dangerous exploit (as the OP's example has pointed out) and I don't allow it.

But to do it as a GM? That's just exploiting the rules to put the players in a BAD predicament (not to mention it's unfair to the victim). I'd table flip + rage quit.

OP is subject. I don't think it is OP. The players can do it also. At best you can say it is not how YOU like to play. Table flipping is a terrible idea. Walking away is easy if playstyles don't match up.


Xexyz wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Xexyz wrote:


Lol, Meteor Swarm. I'm talking about a spell that Pathfinder nerfed, not buffed (d6 damage from d4, ranged touch attack to hit and inflict some extra damage and make the save harder).
Then maybe you should be more specific.
I'm not trying to be a jackass, I'm just wondering if anyone else feared the dreaded Mordenkainen's Disjunction like me and my group. Getting killed is one thing; a Raise Dead or Resurrection will fix that. Losing all your magic items? That's the true dagger to the heart.

I didn't think you were being a jackass it was fun trying to guess.


By the time Power Word Kill is in use there is plenty of ways to help protect against it.

1. Scarab of Protection
2. Spell Resistance
3. Death Ward
4. Using Counter-spell
5. Anti-Magic
6. Spell Turning
7. Contingency
8. Magic Jar

That's just off the top of my head. Those should be kept in mind for other death effects also not just Power Word Kill.

At higher levels you should have some form of protection against death effects and if you don't it's either because you're inexperienced or because of your groups play style.

Grand Lodge

In PF...death after level 9 is an inconvience...so unless this trick was pulled before level 9...yeah not gonna be pissed at all.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cold Napalm wrote:
In PF...death after level 9 is an inconvience...so unless this trick was pulled before level 9...yeah not gonna be pissed at all.

It can be horribly inconvenient, even after level 9. It's not like every party has the capability to raise the dead, and most parties can't afford routine resurrections.

Grand Lodge

Ravingdork wrote:
Cold Napalm wrote:
In PF...death after level 9 is an inconvience...so unless this trick was pulled before level 9...yeah not gonna be pissed at all.
It can be horribly inconvenient, even after level 9. It's not like every party has the capability to raise the dead, and most parties can't afford routine resurrections.

Define most? Because you see, even in my casual groups, we have what we like to call a rainy day fund. So even if they party lacks a cleric, we can HIRE one to bring a dead party member back to life. Also at level 9+, the party UMD person generally has a couple scrolls around as well. And if we fell for the same trick routinely and needed resurrection, I would be pissed...but not at the GM.


Ravingdork wrote:
Cold Napalm wrote:
In PF...death after level 9 is an inconvience...so unless this trick was pulled before level 9...yeah not gonna be pissed at all.
It can be horribly inconvenient, even after level 9. It's not like every party has the capability to raise the dead, and most parties can't afford routine resurrections.

Eh it's the same as constantly sundering their goods it's an option but you should feel obligated to provide them with sufficient wealth to offset any huge variation in their WBL if you choose to run a game under standard assumptions.


Cold Napalm wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Cold Napalm wrote:
In PF...death after level 9 is an inconvience...so unless this trick was pulled before level 9...yeah not gonna be pissed at all.
It can be horribly inconvenient, even after level 9. It's not like every party has the capability to raise the dead, and most parties can't afford routine resurrections.
Define most? Because you see, even in my casual groups, we have what we like to call a rainy day fund. So even if they party lacks a cleric, we can HIRE one to bring a dead party member back to life. Also at level 9+, the party UMD person generally has a couple scrolls around as well. And if we fell for the same trick routinely and needed resurrection, I would be pissed...but not at the GM.

Yeah, even our 7 & 8th level party had a Raise Dead fund. Pretty darn common.


The level 12 group I GM has a Raise Dead fund and: 1 scroll of raise dead, 1 scroll of resurrection, 1 scroll of greater restoration to go with the raise dead, and 1 scroll of restoration to go with the resurrection. At level 9 they had Raise Dead +2 Restorations.

This is really a speed bump.

Oh, and if people are wondering about WBL, as a GM I follow WBL (table 12-4) and how much treasure is handed out (table 12-5) pretty closely. As a group they usually have about 15% over WBL due to Table 12-5 (which gives out about 30-40% extra).

- Gauss


I guess when playing in Ravingdork's game you should stay as rich as you can, just in case.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Hell, my Shackled City group had 5k in diamonds banked at the local temple in case a raise dead was needed!

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013

Mikaze wrote:
Implosion or bust.

You haven't lived until you've turned a PC into a sugar cube with implosion.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013

2 people marked this as a favorite.

PROTIP: staff of life casts raise dead, but is charged with heal. It's free to cast heal. If you die a lot, staff of life might be a good investment. Or at least a "do not sell" piece of loot.


Ravingdork wrote:
Having your long time character suddenly snuffed out by a Power Word: Kill spell from the GM? No save, no chance to avoid. Nothing. Just an unceremonious collapse unto death in front of "Enemy Spellcaster A."

Yes.

As a GM, I'd use that ability on a beloved and valued NPC in the hopes of putting the fear of God into the party, but killing off a character that way is just... crappy. The point of the game is to have fun - who is that fun for?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Aranna wrote:

I guess when playing in Ravingdork's game you should stay as rich as you can, just in case.

I'm figuring that playing in a game run by Raving Dork would have the requirement that you'd have to be as much of a corner rules ambulance chaser that he has shown himself to be.


Damocles Guile wrote:
...killing off a character that way is just... crappy. The point of the game is to have fun - who is that fun for?

Dying is as fun as one and one's GM and group allow it to be.

As a matter of fact, I find dying from time to time to be extremely enjoyable as it is the proof by which I am able to determine that there is genuine challenge and risk for my character

Basically, I mentally compare the level of fun I would have playing in a game where my character was never significantly challenged and the level of fun I would have playing in a game where I am engaged by the challenges my character pushes himself to the limits to pass, and the difference is the measurement of fun I attribute directly to character death.

In that way, a good death is the best part of the game.


Everyone seems to be bringing up Raise Dead, but I'm fairly sure to recover from power word: kill you need a resurrection spell minimum. Raise dead has this clause:

Raise Dead wrote:
A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can't be raised by this spell.

So if you only have access to raise dead and no way of getting resurrection spells yet this effect or any other death effect can be rather permanent. That doesn't change my feelings about the validity of the tactic, if the NPC had a reason for the scroll and our PCs were high level (13-14 can expect to see 17th level NPCs as hard encounters +2 or +3 CR) then 9th level spells are an option. In fact, in this case against an NPC who has to make the check with a failure chance to even use the scroll it's an easier use of this spell on the party than a level 17 NPC(CR 16) wizard who just casts the spell.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
idilippy wrote:
Everyone seems to be bringing up Raise Dead,

Yes, because some of us have moved on from the Power Word Kill discussion to the broader topic of being prepared for character death and the like.

Marathon Voter 2014

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Just do what I do.
Have a good cry about it, get it all out.
Then roll a master summoner.


Meh. So your imaginary character died. Sounds like he died a good death. It's not like he choked on a chicken bone or got hit by a horse and buggy while crossing the street. You fought a wizard and he cast a spell. That spell killed you... it happens.

I like the fact that death is a very real possibility it just adds to the fun. I mean if you didn't die you wouldn't have the opportunity to talk about it on the boards. :)

101 to 150 of 191 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>
Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / General Discussion / As a player, would this piss you off? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.