"I pointed out to Jason that the no-somatic text only appears in the rules on concentration, not on grapple, and is a legacy of when grapple was a whole-body thing instead of a just-an-arm thing. The no-somatic rule is being errata'd out of the game, it shouldn't have been left in."
You know, I'm starting to get tired of clarifications...
You don't like that there isn't a feat and spell slot tax for this now?
it reduces the ussefulness of grapple, so I see whay hogarth do not like it.
First off thanks for the links Cheapy and Nicos.
"Even so, you must make a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler's CMB + the level of the spell you're casting) or lose the spell."
They still have to make a concentration check if grappled.
Also even with those changes Pinned wouldn't change.
Pinned:
Pinned
A pinned creature is tightly bound and can take few actions. A pinned creature cannot move and is denied its Dexterity bonus. A pinned character also takes an additional –4 penalty to his Armor Class. A pinned creature is limited in the actions that it can take. A pinned creature can always attempt to free itself, usually through a combat maneuver check or Escape Artist check. A pinned creature can take verbal and mental actions, but cannot cast any spells that require a somatic or material component. A pinned character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level) or lose the spell. Pinned is a more severe version of grappled, and their effects do not stack.
Was Still Spell ever about making magic subtle? I always though it was for avoiding ASF, casting while tied up, and that sort of thing.
I am sad that Pathfinder has no mechanic for disguising spellcasting, but that's another topic.
There is this
Secret Signs:
Secret Signs
You are particularly adept at communicating with others via innuendo, gestures, and secret hand signs.
Prerequisite: Int 13.
Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus on Bluff checks made to pass secret messages. In addition, you are adept at hiding the somatic components of spellcasting. If you cast a spell that has only somatic components, an observer must make a Perception check opposed by your Sleight of Hand check to notice your spellcasting. Spellcraft checks made to identify any spell you cast that has somatic components take a –2 penalty.
There is also a way for bards to disguise spell casting within a performance. While I like these feats in certain contexts (illusions and enchantments) I wish they had made it a universal rule in regards to the Bluff skill instead.
Ah yes. I was coming at it from the wrong perspective. Ah hah! Freedom of Movement isn't so important now for casters worried about being grappled.
It's a good erratum that makes sense, so I'm glad it's being introduced to the game. On a personal note, it sadly invalidates the coolest thing I received in the Grand Convocation at Paizocon (my choice of free 1st or 2nd level metamagic on a 1st through 4th level cleric spell; I chose Still Spell on Freedom of Movement). I doubt I can get a rebuild on that boon though.
I don't think concealed casting should be exclusive to bards, but I am okay with them being the best at it.
My favored explanation for stilled, silent spells is the "swirling magical rune" rule. If you look in Pathfinder art, casters always have swirling magical runes surrounding their hands when they cast. I figure these persist even when the spell is silenced and stilled.
You could tack on yet another metamagic to conceal just the runes, but I think it would be best to have a +3 level metamagic that took care of all visible and audible spellcasting evidence, including the lingering aura. That way we don't have to worry about some loophole in the rules. "Hidden Spell" (+3) perhaps?
Bards would still be best at concealed casting, because Spellsong is better than that. But it would be a nice tool to have in the box, I think.
You know, I'm starting to get tired of clarifications...
You don't like that there isn't a feat and spell slot tax for this now?
it reduces the ussefulness of grapple, so I see whay hogarth do not like it.
First off thanks for the links Cheapy and Nicos.
"Even so, you must make a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler's CMB + the level of the spell you're casting) or lose the spell."
They still have to make a concentration check if grappled.
Also even with those changes Pinned wouldn't change.
** spoiler omitted **
Still Spell also helps with Arcane Spell Failure.
Well i do not want to derail my own thread but it is not the same but before the wizard were forrced to cast dimension door to scape the grapple now they can just target the grappler so it is not the same.
but cheapy and arthantos have pointed two uses of still spell(Rods of still have only one use though). so the question in the title of the thread is already answered
Nitpick: Rods of Still Spell don't exist unless you custom make them. Probably because it doesn't make much sense to have to get a rod out and wave it around in order to not move to cast.
Nitpick: Rods of Still Spell don't exist unless you custom make them. Probably because it doesn't make much sense to have to get a rod out and wave it around in order to not move to cast.
I'm not too into the swirling runes explanation since it is never mentioned in the books (as much as I love the flavor).
In fact, there is a section in the rules that specifically talks about what targets of a spell with no visible presence feel when they make their saving throws. If casting a spell sent runes flying around everywhere then this would almost never happen.
Then again, maybe I'm biased because I have a character who has been making liberal use of Silent+Stilled Charm Person ;)
Artanthos
ryric
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