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You know, I'm starting to get tired of clarifications...
Do you have a link to any of this? Or is this your assumption from memory. (Which could be slightly wrong.)
Casting while holding objects in your hands.
So no, it's not utterly useless.
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Do you have a link to any of this? Or is this your assumption from memory. (Which could be slightly wrong.)
Jason's post on how there'd still be a spellcraft check allowed.
"no somatic in grapple" was a legacy of how grapple worked in 3.5.
You know, I'm starting to get tired of clarifications...
You don't like that there is less of a feat and spell slot tax for this now?
Ah yes. I was coming at it from the wrong perspective. Ah hah! Freedom of Movement isn't so important now for casters worried about being grappled.
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Alternatively, one less line in the book means 1 more line for the monk changes :p
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it reduces the ussefulness of grapple, so I see whay hogarth do not like it.You know, I'm starting to get tired of clarifications...You don't like that there isn't a feat and spell slot tax for this now?
First off thanks for the links Cheapy and Nicos.
"Even so, you must make a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler's CMB + the level of the spell you're casting) or lose the spell."
They still have to make a concentration check if grappled.
Also even with those changes Pinned wouldn't change.
A pinned creature is tightly bound and can take few actions. A pinned creature cannot move and is denied its Dexterity bonus. A pinned character also takes an additional –4 penalty to his Armor Class. A pinned creature is limited in the actions that it can take. A pinned creature can always attempt to free itself, usually through a combat maneuver check or Escape Artist check. A pinned creature can take verbal and mental actions, but cannot cast any spells that require a somatic or material component. A pinned character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level) or lose the spell. Pinned is a more severe version of grappled, and their effects do not stack.
Still Spell also helps with Arcane Spell Failure.
You know, I'm starting to get tired of clarifications...You don't like that there is less of a feat and spell slot tax for this now?
To be fair, I didn't read this particular clarification.
To be unfair, that's because I was turned off by the previous 6 clarifications that I read.
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I am sad that Pathfinder has no mechanic for disguising spellcasting, but that's another topic.
Not going to derail the thread either, but I agree.
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Was Still Spell ever about making magic subtle? I always though it was for avoiding ASF, casting while tied up, and that sort of thing.
I am sad that Pathfinder has no mechanic for disguising spellcasting, but that's another topic.
There is this
Prerequisite: Int 13.
Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus on Bluff checks made to pass secret messages. In addition, you are adept at hiding the somatic components of spellcasting. If you cast a spell that has only somatic components, an observer must make a Perception check opposed by your Sleight of Hand check to notice your spellcasting. Spellcraft checks made to identify any spell you cast that has somatic components take a –2 penalty.
There might be others i just did a quick check.
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I am sad that Pathfinder has no mechanic for disguising spellcasting, but that's another topic.
Spellsong.
There is also a way for bards to disguise spell casting within a performance. While I like these feats in certain contexts (illusions and enchantments) I wish they had made it a universal rule in regards to the Bluff skill instead.
Ah yes. I was coming at it from the wrong perspective. Ah hah! Freedom of Movement isn't so important now for casters worried about being grappled.
It's a good erratum that makes sense, so I'm glad it's being introduced to the game. On a personal note, it sadly invalidates the coolest thing I received in the Grand Convocation at Paizocon (my choice of free 1st or 2nd level metamagic on a 1st through 4th level cleric spell; I chose Still Spell on Freedom of Movement). I doubt I can get a rebuild on that boon though.
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Yep.
I don't think concealed casting should be exclusive to bards, but I am okay with them being the best at it.
My favored explanation for stilled, silent spells is the "swirling magical rune" rule. If you look in Pathfinder art, casters always have swirling magical runes surrounding their hands when they cast. I figure these persist even when the spell is silenced and stilled.
You could tack on yet another metamagic to conceal just the runes, but I think it would be best to have a +3 level metamagic that took care of all visible and audible spellcasting evidence, including the lingering aura. That way we don't have to worry about some loophole in the rules. "Hidden Spell" (+3) perhaps?
Bards would still be best at concealed casting, because Spellsong is better than that. But it would be a nice tool to have in the box, I think.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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*shrug* It's always been that way.
Anyway, paralysis, polymorph, being bound, restrained, ASF, missing a limb... lots of different situational reasons.
Old line from a G.I. Joe Comic
Shipwreck: We don't need a fireman, we're in the ocean!
Barbeque: Ayup, everyone says that. Until their house is on fire.
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I like the swirling runes explanation. It's evocative and cool.
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I'm not too into the swirling runes explanation since it is never mentioned in the books (as much as I love the flavor).
In fact, there is a section in the rules that specifically talks about what targets of a spell with no visible presence feel when they make their saving throws. If casting a spell sent runes flying around everywhere then this would almost never happen.
Then again, maybe I'm biased because I have a character who has been making liberal use of Silent+Stilled Charm Person ;)
(Rods of still have only one use though)Nitpick: Rods of Still Spell don't exist unless you custom make them. Probably because it doesn't make much sense to have to get a rod out and wave it around in order to not move to cast.
Only in PF, you didn't have to hold it in 3.5.
So still spell is a useless feat for a cleric (the idea had been to be able to cast freedom of movement while grappled/paralysed/entangled/held).
Is that a question?
You don't need Still Spell to cast while grappled or entangled - as long as you can pass a Concentration check.You would need it to cast while pinned or paralysed.
Note the full component list of FoM, though:
V, S, M (a leather strip bound to the target), DF
So you'd need to keep a leather strip bound to yourself permanently - that should be possible. You'd need to keep a divine focus attached to yourself permanently - there are certainly ways to do this, such as wearing the Cassock of the Clergy. The Verbal components would be impossible while paralysed - you'd need Silent Spell I suppose? - but possible while Pinned.
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You know, I'm starting to get tired of clarifications...
Hello from the future. They've only gotten worse...
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Holy simultaneous posting, batman.
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Pinned, paralyzed, tied up, entangled (whoa, not entangled? Probably an oversight). Plenty of advantages.
Personally, I'd let Still and Silent spells go without Spellcraft. The only reason not to is to make those stupid "Let's rule out options by making a feat for it" feats work. ;P
Pinning happens a lot to NPC casters, especially bosses. Still Spell can mean the difference between a dead monk and a dead mage.
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Neat necro.
Well, there is now this:
Whether a smuggler or spy, you’ve learned to use misdirection and legerdemain to conceal your own magical abilities.
Prerequisites: Deceitful, ability to cast 1st-level spells.
Benefit: When casting a spell, you can attempt a Bluff check (opposed by observers’ Perception checks) to conceal your actions from onlookers. If the spell requires material components, you take a –4 penalty on the Bluff check. If the spell requires somatic components, you take a –4 penalty on the Bluff check. If the spell requires verbal components, you take a –4 penalty on the Bluff check. If the spell requires a focus or divine focus, you take a –4 penalty on the Bluff check. If the spell produces an obvious effect (such as a summoned creature or visible spell effect), you take a –4 penalty on the Bluff check, and even if your check is successful, observers still see the spell effect (though they fail to notice that you are responsible for it). All Bluff check penalties are cumulative.
Neat necro.
Well, there is now this:
** spoiler omitted **
Where is that from?
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Where is that from?Neat necro.
Well, there is now this:
** spoiler omitted **
Mostly likely the Dirty tricks Toolbox... along with the awesome Dirty Fighting Feat :P
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I need the feat for my deaf cursed oracle witch build using shadow projection as my super saipan attack form.
It's a s!~~ feat. Shouldn't have any penalties.
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Yeah, the casters should be able to ignore another drawback with their expendable feats easily.
Wait, that isn't how these boards usually roll...