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Player killed NPC for no reason.


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A fellow PC calling himself an alchemist(tengu ninja) killed an NPC in mid speech as he was showing us on a map where to go for our quest. The other members of the group, me (aasimar ocacle) and the other guy (oread druid) were not giving the chance to stop him. The NPC was dead before I could heal him. The player controlling the tengu ninja was drunk and laughing through it all. We told him that was the wrong thing to do. We were conflicted with what to do and everyone took off without waiting for the group. We ended game hiding out in the nearby forest away from town. The GM said there was likely to be a bounty, and trial once we were captured. Seeing that people saw us earlier as newcomers and later, townsfolk viewed us fleeing from town, I'm think I need to turn myself in. Accept whatever small town justice comes my way and roll up another character. I doubt the "alchemist" will get out of this once captured, he's level 1. Knowing some insight about our GM, I think we will all have to roll up new characters. Any thoughts on any of this?


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Don't play with that guy again.


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You and the druid should knock the ninja's ass out, tie him up, and turn him in while explaining the situation. You might be able to convince them of the truth (ie you had no part in what your psychotic traveling partner did).


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Play with someone drunk is not funy. I would not play with that guy again (at least not if not sober)


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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Is being drunk a common thing in your games?


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Playing with someone who is inebriated will lead you to this place. (caveat - unless everybody's doing the same thing i.e. "Hey, we're all drunk - let's play Risus! Who's had the most to drink? Ok, you're GM'ing!")

It sounds like you have a case of vastly different social expectations - you guys expected to play Pathfinder, your friend expected to get drunk and troll you.

Make sure to align expectations next time, would be my suggestion.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Pawns Subscriber

Speaking as a GM who strives for a 'real-world' feel, I agree that your next course of action SHOULD be what chaoseffect suggests: The ninja has to sleep at some point. Wait for your opportunity, take him out with a nonlethal coup de grace (is there such a thing?) or some such, and drag his tied-up tail back to town.

In my world, guards are smart enough to recognize that two strangers dragging the third back in in ropes MIGHT be on their side, and wouldn't shoot on sight. They'd surround you, demand that you drop your weapons, tie all three of you up, take you in, and let you explain yourselves to the judge.

I'd have you tried, of course, because there's nothing more fun than roleplaying the prosecution, but I'd probably let you free in the long run, and have the tengu publicly executed.

EDIT: Oh, we played while drunk for many years in our 20's. And had many PCs kill each other or get executed by the authorities. Alcohol seems to inevitably lead to character death. But as GMs we never took out the drunkard's actions on the sober people.


You are an oracle and you are an aasimir. You most likely have fairly good CHA, and going from fluff, people will presume you are probably kind, honest (depending on the area). A trial is probably not going to go too bad for you in most areas. Just don't get shot by the townsfolk before that happens, and you will likely be able to weasel your way out of it. Maybe carry the 'alchemist' above your heads as a peace offering/ hold your hands up.

Shadow Lodge

Yup, subdue the murderer, turn him in, and defend yourselves in court. The GM really should give you this "out" given that you did everything in your limited power to stop the other PC (in this case, attempting to heal after the fact). Abadar's Truthtelling should verify your story quite nicely if there's a 1st level cleric in town.

Then have a serious talk with the player.


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Find a better GM?
Your inability to act in a situation created because one your players can't handle their adult drink reflects more on the GM than it does on the lightweight you were playing with.

... or was the GM high / off their meds / half asleep / drunk as well?

Situational modifiers on the GM while GM'ing rarely bode well for a game.

-TimD


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You can’t solve a OOC problem IC. Giving his PC extra attention for his acting up is exactly what he wants. Kill his PC? Great, there’s another better PC a few minutes away.

You have to sit down and talk with the player and DM like adults.


TimD wrote:

Find a better GM?

Your inability to act in a situation created because one your players can't handle their adult drink reflects more on the GM than it does on the lightweight you were playing with.

... or was the GM high / off their meds / half asleep / drunk as well?

Situational modifiers on the GM while GM'ing rarely bode well for a game.

-TimD

Have to agree there. If I've got a seriously drunk player in a game I'm GMing, I'd probably either ask them to leave, ignore any stupid/disruptive behavior, or just turn the game campy and non-serious for that session.


Xenomorph 27 wrote:

A fellow PC calling himself an alchemist(tengu ninja) killed an NPC in mid speech as he was showing us on a map where to go for our quest. The other members of the group, me (aasimar ocacle) and the other guy (oread druid) were not giving the chance to stop him. The NPC was dead before I could heal him.

The player controlling the tengu ninja was drunk and laughing through it all. We told him that was the wrong thing to do.

We were conflicted with what to do and everyone took off without waiting for the group. We ended game hiding out in the nearby forest away from town.

The GM said there was likely to be a bounty, and trial once we were captured.

Seeing that people saw us earlier as newcomers and later, townsfolk viewed us fleeing from town, I'm think I need to turn myself in. Accept whatever small town justice comes my way and roll up another character. I doubt the "alchemist" will get out of this once captured, he's level 1. Knowing some insight about our GM, I think we will all have to roll up new characters. Any thoughts on any of this?

No one actually saw you do it./ All circumstantial evidence. DM knows none of you (including) Tangu can be punished. He is hoping you'll turn yourselves in because then you foolishly will be punished.


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Go out with style. Head back into town at night, and see how many sleeping commoners you can coup de grace while they sleep. You might be able to take out the entire town if luck is with you, then there will be no witnesses and no justice. Or if so many people show up dead, you could blame it on some demon sorcerer, and offer yourselves up to the local authorities as bounty hunters for whatever evil force has been decimating the town.

Mwa ha ha ha ha ha ha!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

Tengu Ninja/Alchemists, Aasimar Oracles, Oread Druids...? Doesn't anyone play Elves, Dwarves or Humans anymore? I'd love to know what those three had in common that set them off to adventure together...


1 person marked this as a favorite.

What do Elves, Dwarves, and Humans have in common besides being common races?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
chaoseffect wrote:
What do Elves, Dwarves, and Humans have in common besides being common races?

Depending on which fantasy sources you accept, between 50 and 5,000 years of shared literary and cinematic history.

Its a fair point though - I have a pet peeve about motley crews garbled together for the purposes of optimizing at the expense of story. That's my issue though and I shouldn't have brought it up on this board. Consider me chastized.


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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Not every wants to play a non-core race to optimize.

That's a terrible assumption.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Not every wants to play a non-core race to optimize.

That's a terrible assumption.

I didn't really mean it as an assumption. Every time we've played as a group we always get together and design the characters together, with common backstories and regional ties... its just a preference. We tend to view it as an epic story that's unfolding - one that needs a beginning just as much as it needs a middle and an end. I just can't see how your typical (nowadays) party of a drow, an aasimar, a tengu, a half-dragon and an ifrit would simply come together... I can't see how they would find common cause or be able to collectively agree on anything at all. To be honest, we've played a number of campaigns in the past where everyone was human, and there was aenough variety in that single race to more than offer everything we need - you don't need feathers or scales (or really good racial abilities) to have differences in a role-playing game, and when I see parties like that, I feel like I'm looking at a pick-up group of strangers on WoW or something.

Again, that's just me, and I've always believed that, at the end of the day, there is absolutely no right or wrong way to play Pathfinder so long as everyone is enjoying themselves.

/end threadjack.


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I'd turn him in... Unless you're evil. Then turn back and murder the whole town,PC's are generally able to take commoners.

As for inebriated players, talk to him and the DM about it. That's the best way to resolve the situation.

On a general aside, drinking and gaming isn't so bad imo. Some of my players enjoy getting a little drunk/high before or during play, saying it helps them get more into character since it changes their inhibitions. As far as I can tell it doesn't change the way they roleplay that much, if at all, but if it helps them enjoy game I'm not one to stop them as long as it's never caused problems. Ironically, I've had infinitely more problems with sober players than drunk ones.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Adventurers are outsiders, and often whack-jobs.

The fact that a group of odd outsiders found others to journey with is not a big stretch.

Not everyone wants to play the "common man" who ends up an Adventurer.

Shadow Lodge

If a player can handle a few drinks without ruining the other two players' fun, fine. If he can't, he shouldn't drink before or during a game. Looks like the tengu's player can't handle drinking and gaming.

Chengar Qordath wrote:
TimD wrote:

Find a better GM?

Your inability to act in a situation created because one your players can't handle their adult drink reflects more on the GM than it does on the lightweight you were playing with.

... or was the GM high / off their meds / half asleep / drunk as well?

Situational modifiers on the GM while GM'ing rarely bode well for a game.

-TimD

Have to agree there. If I've got a seriously drunk player in a game I'm GMing, I'd probably either ask them to leave, ignore any stupid/disruptive behavior, or just turn the game campy and non-serious for that session.

This is a good point. I don't know the full situation, but there are several things the GM could have done here even without completely shutting down the drunk. For example, the ninja would need either a drawn weapon or the Quickdraw feat to attack during a surprise round (which this appears to be). If he didn't have one or the other, the druid, the oracle, and the NPC would all have gotten initiative checks to stop the ninja after he drew but before he struck. Also, your average first level commoner needs to take about 16 points of damage before they die. A first-level ninja would have to be lucky and/or carrying an unusually hefty weapon to achieve that in one hit, even with sneak attack. Even if he successfully struck, you probably should have had the chance to heal the NPC.

And that's just strict rule interpretation. A GM would be more than justified to fudge it a bit so the NPC could be saved (maybe he's an ex-militia member, or otherwise tougher than the average commoner).

Or again, they could just shut down the player when it became clear he was being disruptive for the fun of it.


TimD wrote:

Find a better GM?

Your inability to act in a situation created because one your players can't handle their adult drink reflects more on the GM than it does on the lightweight you were playing with.

... or was the GM high / off their meds / half asleep / drunk as well?

Situational modifiers on the GM while GM'ing rarely bode well for a game.

-TimD

How is this the gm's fault?

I dont understand how you look at this situations and think 'oh, the gm is a jerk, and totally wrong' when it is the 'player' that chose to play drunk, and everyone including the OP Obviously chose to allow it. If your going to blame the gm, then you need to blame the players equally. But really, put blame where blame is due, right square on the drunk player. Boot him, talk to him, do one of those things to straighten this out for future games.

As for the in game situation, well why would the other players get to react? I mean really, i the tengu killed the guy in one shot, then he is dead. The other characters prolly are not going to notice that one of the party has just decided to kill an npc and then jump in to stop it unless they are aware of some hostilities ext. By the sounds of it the guy just reacted on whim and deed was done.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

Personally, GM made a mistake in not allowing the other players to attempt to stop the crazy person being played by someone, possibly a griefing troll, with imparied judgment.

Then again running a game anyone is meant to take seriously with drunk players is probably the parent problem there.

If this is not the kind of game and environment you want to try to roleplay in, seeking other venues might be your best bet. Life's too short for bad gaming.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As a DM that promotes drinking at the game, i see this happen quite often.

If you character is offended, then turn the guy in. People need to think before they act(kill someone) if they dont want their character to be killed in return, however, the DM should also have some way to take care getting you back into the adventure without breaking the game

If it offends you as a player, then you need to bring this up with him and or the DM and or the whole group, and the earlier the better, dont let it simmer and build up andger in you as you wait for the right momment, because this kind of thing can, and likely will, happen again.


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Wiggz wrote:
Tengu Ninja/Alchemists, Aasimar Oracles, Oread Druids...? Doesn't anyone play Elves, Dwarves or Humans anymore? I'd love to know what those three had in common that set them off to adventure together...

They do in my games, because oreads, tengu, and aasimar don't exist in my gameworld. In the game I'm running the PCs consist of four humans (three of which are all from the same village) a dwarf, and an elf.

It's a personal preference - I want my games to resemble a traditional fantasy setting, not Mos Eisley Cantina.


Nether wrote:
TimD wrote:

Find a better GM?

Your inability to act in a situation created because one your players can't handle their adult drink reflects more on the GM than it does on the lightweight you were playing with.

... or was the GM high / off their meds / half asleep / drunk as well?

Situational modifiers on the GM while GM'ing rarely bode well for a game.

-TimD

How is this the gm's fault?

I dont understand how you look at this situations and think 'oh, the gm is a jerk, and totally wrong' when it is the 'player' that chose to play drunk, and everyone including the OP Obviously chose to allow it. If your going to blame the gm, then you need to blame the players equally. But really, put blame where blame is due, right square on the drunk player. Boot him, talk to him, do one of those things to straighten this out for future games.

Part of the GM's job is to deal with disruptive players before they ruin the game for everyone else. The GM didn't do that. Not to say the player isn't at fault for his own actions, but the GM also failed to act.


Probably a good idea to ask the player why he did it and for the GM to mulligan what happened.


Also, just a random note, since someone was complaining about noncore races, the aasimir and oread do have at least some common ground: they both have outsider ancestors. They both have to deal with appearing fairly human, but having subtle differences that differentiate them from their peers.

It is funny that the odd one out, the tengu, caused the problem. Since part of the concern was the "Small town justice" (read: lynch first, ask questions later) in the OP, you might want to play off of that. You are in a bad position due to the impression of being associated with this crime by running. If you find that the locals are being played a bit too backwoods to negotiate with, then you might want to use tengu stereotypes to your advantage. Very dirty move though, and might only serve to make the loss of your own character a softer blow, since it alienates itself from you.


Wiggz wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Not every wants to play a non-core race to optimize.

That's a terrible assumption.

I didn't really mean it as an assumption. Every time we've played as a group we always get together and design the characters together, with common backstories and regional ties... its just a preference. We tend to view it as an epic story that's unfolding - one that needs a beginning just as much as it needs a middle and an end. I just can't see how your typical (nowadays) party of a drow, an aasimar, a tengu, a half-dragon and an ifrit would simply come together... I can't see how they would find common cause or be able to collectively agree on anything at all. To be honest, we've played a number of campaigns in the past where everyone was human, and there was aenough variety in that single race to more than offer everything we need - you don't need feathers or scales (or really good racial abilities) to have differences in a role-playing game, and when I see parties like that, I feel like I'm looking at a pick-up group of strangers on WoW or something.

Again, that's just me, and I've always believed that, at the end of the day, there is absolutely no right or wrong way to play Pathfinder so long as everyone is enjoying themselves.

/end threadjack.

We currently have a primitive vanara, a half-succubus, quarter-elf twins, and a drow as a party. Their parents are our primary adventuring party, and all those kids were begotten in game. They grew up together. I think after that, I won't see any party as too weird to make sense.


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Nether wrote:

How is this the gm's fault?

I dont understand how you look at this situations and think 'oh, the gm is a jerk, and totally wrong' when it is the 'player' that chose to play drunk, and everyone including the OP Obviously chose to allow it. If your going to blame the gm, then you need to blame the players equally. But really, put blame where blame is due, right square on the drunk player. Boot him, talk to him, do one of those things to straighten this out for future games.

As for the in game situation, well why would the other players get to react? I mean really, i the tengu killed the guy in one shot, then he is dead. The other characters prolly are not going to notice that one of the party has just decided to kill an npc and then jump in to stop it unless they are aware of some hostilities ext. By the sounds of it the guy just reacted on whim and deed was done.

Because, as Weirdo pointed out, the GM did not follow the rules of the game:

Quote:
I don't know the full situation, but there are several things the GM could have done here even without completely shutting down the drunk. For example, the ninja would need either a drawn weapon or the Quickdraw feat to attack during a surprise round (which this appears to be). If he didn't have one or the other, the druid, the oracle, and the NPC would all have gotten initiative checks to stop the ninja after he drew but before he struck. Also, your average first level commoner needs to take about 16 points of damage before they die. A first-level ninja would have to be lucky and/or carrying an unusually hefty weapon to achieve that in one hit, even with sneak attack. Even if he successfully struck, you probably should have had the chance to heal the NPC.

Ignoring the rules in such a blatant manner is telling the other players, "I don't care about how your decisions could affect the game world, but I want the drunk player to be able to determine what occurs. You other guys have no input into this situation because I'm ignoring the rules that should let you."

That's bad GMing. Every player should have equal input into the flow of the story. If the tengu player wants to attempt to kill an NPC for no reason, fine, but let the other players have their rule-given right to react and respond in character.

I'd be mighty annoyed if I couldn't do a damn thing about that situation because the GM didn't want me to, and so flagrantly ignored the rules.

Edit: Nether, how would you like it if your GM decided that something bad (or at least undesirable to you) was going to happen, and despite the fact that the rules should let you have a chance to avert it, changed the rules so you were nothing more than a helpless spectator?


Being drunk on the table isn't a very good idea, unless you're only slightly inerbriated.

Wiggz wrote:
Tengu Ninja/Alchemists, Aasimar Oracles, Oread Druids...? Doesn't anyone play Elves, Dwarves or Humans anymore? I'd love to know what those three had in common that set them off to adventure together...

Core races are overrated.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Adventurers are outsiders, and often whack-jobs.

The fact that a group of odd outsiders found others to journey with is not a big stretch.

Not everyone wants to play the "common man" who ends up an Adventurer.

This is pretty true and also something I support as a DM. Also, see my statement above when it comes to Core races.

Shadow Lodge

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We don't know what exactly the GM did or didn't do to handle this. It is possible that the Tengu was quick with his weapon (Quickdraw feat) and crit his attack and ended up doing enough damage to kill the commoner in a single blow before anyone could blink an eye.

But it's possible that the GM for whatever reason neglected the rules that should have given the other players some choice to intervene. That doesn't mean that the situation is his fault - primary fault definitely goes to the drunk player - but he probably could have reacted better. And he should definitely give the other players a chance to get out of this mess, since they didn't get a say in the events that put them there.

If the GM gives you the opportunity to get out of this situation next session and you work things out with the Tengu's player, great, it's an unfortunate incident but you can all move forwards. If the GM insists on executing the whole party over something two of you had no control over, then you have a problem. If the Tengu's player doesn't realize why what he did was wrong once he's sober, you have a different problem. If both the GM and the Tengu's player are problematic, may god have mercy on your game.


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Some guys can have a few beers and still enjoy a game without being idiots; weve had whole PFS events at Pubs and Microbreweries and NO trouble. I had a GM who didn't get into the 'zone' until he was half stoned and this all went just fine.

Then you get idiots.

Some of them don't even need to be drunk.


Weirdo wrote:

We don't know what exactly the GM did or didn't do to handle this. It is possible that the Tengu was quick with his weapon (Quickdraw feat) and crit his attack and ended up doing enough damage to kill the commoner in a single blow before anyone could blink an eye.

But it's possible that the GM for whatever reason neglected the rules that should have given the other players some choice to intervene. That doesn't mean that the situation is his fault - primary fault definitely goes to the drunk player - but he probably could have reacted better. And he should definitely give the other players a chance to get out of this mess, since they didn't get a say in the events that put them there.

If the GM gives you the opportunity to get out of this situation next session and you work things out with the Tengu's player, great, it's an unfortunate incident but you can all move forwards. If the GM insists on executing the whole party over something two of you had no control over, then you have a problem. If the Tengu's player doesn't realize why what he did was wrong once he's sober, you have a different problem. If both the GM and the Tengu's player are problematic, may god have mercy on your game.

All true.

For the record, I'm primarily a GM, and usually get annoyed by the insta-blame on the GM. This seems pretty outrageous though, unless the situation did happen as you hypothesise in your first paragraph. And if a situation is obviously really unfun for most of a party, as it seems to have been from the OP, that's really the GM's job to handle.

I don't know, players can be dicks, but if the GM is doing their job moderately well they should be able to at least minimise the damage to the fun levels.


Tengu often have natural weapons. Don't need no quickdraw for that. Just saying.


Neither druids nor oracles are known for having particularly high dexterity, whereas ninjas are dex-based, so it's quite possible that the Tengu went first just by winning initiative, without any Quick Draw surprise round elements. Your average first-level commoner (with 10 Con) takes 13 damage to kill outright (or 12 if he gets a turn to bleed out before the oracle can act) - which isn't a trivial amount, but considering the extra 1d6 Sneak Attack damage, is hardly impossible for a first-level ninja.

There's a strong tendency on these boards to assume that every GM is Literally Hitler until proven innocent.

Ilja wrote:
Tengu often have natural weapons. Don't need no quickdraw for that. Just saying.

That makes it really easy, then - with two attacks, one in the surprise round and one in the regular initiative order, getting an extra 1d6 Sneak Attack damage each time, killing a commoner should be a joke.

Grand Lodge

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This just looks like a jerk player. Players don't need to be drinking during a game to not care about the consequences of their player's actions. Now, if the GM is okay with this kind of player, then hopefully the rest of the group is too. If not, then talk it out.

I'm not convinced the GM did anything wrong or handled thing badly. It's certainly possible for a 1st level character to kill an non-combat NPC in a single strike, and it's even reasonable for a GM to not call for initiative or enter into "combat time" for such a simple action, making it the responsibility of the other players to say they want to stop him. The GM is not required to give the players anything or remind them they can blurt out "I [insert action here]!" whenever they want to.

As for what to do next, do whatever you want do to. Run away. Turn yourselves in. Capture the ninja and turn him in. Kill the ninja. Get wasted during the game and wake up the next morning wondering what your character did...


A critical natural weapon attack with sneak damage (not multiplied) from a level 1 ninja could very well kill a commoner if rolls are high.

Take a look:
Most natural weapons do 1d4 (don't know about the tengu's)
With a mediocre strength of 14 that'll be +2.
So with a maxed crit plus maxed sneak he'd do 18 damage (4+2*2)+6

My solution:
in game: Hand the murderer in, try to get out yourself.
Out game: Have a talk about drinking at the table. That can work out but not with every player.


Wiggz wrote:
Tengu Ninja/Alchemists, Aasimar Oracles, Oread Druids...? Doesn't anyone play Elves, Dwarves or Humans anymore? I'd love to know what those three had in common that set them off to adventure together...

Because they are common fantasy races in the Pathfinder universe? Kinda like asking, "how did the latino, the african american, and the oriental end up on the same business trip?"


depends on the party.

Is this an evil campaign?

Shadow Lodge

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littlehewy wrote:
For the record, I'm primarily a GM, and usually get annoyed by the insta-blame on the GM.

I'm a bit amazed that anyone on these boards actually plays the game, since any minor problem anyone posts about usually is met with a chorus of "Never play with that GM again!"

Taldor

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When players attempt to stop players... I always call for 1) Perception checks if needed 2) Initiative 3) Actual attak rolls or CMB etc.

The fact is, unless there was some reason why you couldn't stop the player from killing the NPC, the onus is encumbant upon the GM for what happened.

In storytelling, there are good choices and bad choices. The factors of player drunkenness and the GMs willingly going along speaks to inexperience as a GM on how to handle the situation.

I don't "blame" GMs often. In fact I always respect GMs for what they do, their planning, and all the hard work, but in this case, perhaps you just chalk this one up to a "bad night" and start over, or follow through the story as-is by turning yourself in etc.

Whichever solution you decide, the players and the GM should have a short discussion about what happened, and ask, "in the future, when I need to interrupt another PC, may I have an initiative roll please?"

That should clear things up, if not, get another group.

Pax


I'll blame the DM when the DM is actually at fault.

Sometimes he/she is, sometimes she/he isn't, so yeah.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
Arizhel wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
Tengu Ninja/Alchemists, Aasimar Oracles, Oread Druids...? Doesn't anyone play Elves, Dwarves or Humans anymore? I'd love to know what those three had in common that set them off to adventure together...
Because they are common fantasy races in the Pathfinder universe? Kinda like asking, "how did the latino, the african american, and the oriental end up on the same business trip?"

Not really. What you're talking about is more akin to a Chelaxian, a Rhadoumi and a Varisian all going on the same business trip, rather than a half-martian, an Atlantean and a talking dog wandering through downtown Chicago... which just proves my point that even within a single race there should be all the cultural diversity one needs to make any sort of character they'd like. Of course, if you're looking to power game at the expense of story, maybe not...

Icyshadow wrote:
Core races are overrated.

Case in point.

Now I'm not saying there isn't a place for non-core races, even in my game. Legacy of Fire we had a Suli Paladin because his race was appropriate and tied him to the campaign in a way we were able to really enjoy later in the AP. In Skull and Shackles we had a Kitsune Sorcerer who ended up being her captain, but her true race was something she worked very hard to conceal, even from the rest of the party/crew. Because she was an oddity, an extreme rarity, not just one of the random circus menagerie that made up our adventuring party.

A party with a member in it who is a non-core race is fine in my opinion - a group of six or seven without a single core race at all is bizarre to the point of unplayability... again, in my opinion. Somehow in those circumstances I doubt those races were chosen because someone 'always wanted to really get inside the head of an tengu alchemist/ninja' and more because they liked the stat bonuses and powers offered by the combo. If you're going to play an exotic race just like you would a human, then just play a human and ask your GM for all those stat bonuses and racial traits you want anyway. In most cases its a lot easier to explain why a human might have statistical benefits similar to a half-demon than it is to explain why there's a half-demon just hanging around the local pub... much less six of them.


Funny how you simply assume me and other people to be powergamers just because we find Core races boring.

Wiggz, stop trying to say that someone is having "badwrongfun" just because you have a differing opinion about this.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
Icyshadow wrote:

Funny how you simply assume me and other people to be powergamers just because we find Core races boring.

Wiggz, stop trying to say that someone is having "badwrongfun" just because you have a differing opinion about this.

Yes, I should make the point that this is all just my opinion and that there is no right or wrong way to play the game so long as everyone is having fun...

Oh, wait - I already did.

Wiggz wrote:

...when I see parties like that, I feel like I'm looking at a pick-up group of strangers on WoW or something.

Again, that's just me, and I've always believed that, at the end of the day, there is absolutely no right or wrong way to play Pathfinder so long as everyone is enjoying themselves.


Apologies, that slipped my radar this time.


Umbranus wrote:

A critical natural weapon attack with sneak damage (not multiplied) from a level 1 ninja could very well kill a commoner if rolls are high.

Take a look:
Most natural weapons do 1d4 (don't know about the tengu's)
With a mediocre strength of 14 that'll be +2.
So with a maxed crit plus maxed sneak he'd do 18 damage (4+2*2)+6

My solution:
in game: Hand the murderer in, try to get out yourself.
Out game: Have a talk about drinking at the table. That can work out but not with every player.

Tengu's have 1d3 natural attacks.


Ilja wrote:
Tengu often have natural weapons. Don't need no quickdraw for that. Just saying.

Yes, well, I'm happy to retract all of my anti-"that GM" statements, and give him/her the benefit of the doubt that he did go by the rules. I guess assuming innocence is the best policy.

And in that case, yeah, the player was a bit of a knob, but if I was one of the players I'd probably just roll with it. Which seems to be what the OP is trying to do.

And unless my PC was LG or NG, I'd definitely try and off the damn tengu! Then I'd drag his corpse back to town and see if I could reason with the villagers. If not, hightail it!

Having said all that, I've known my group for such a long time, if something like this happened at our table, whether or not the GM did screw up, it'd be more of a facepalm/headshaking occasion than cause for true angst. A short conversation conveying any disappointment or explanations would probably cover it, then we'd move on. It'll probably be a great story in a year or two, whatever happens from here :) "Remember when Dan was so smashed he killed that NPC for no reason, and we all had to go on the run, and then I tried to murder his tengu, and then he ran off and became a recurring villain..."

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