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Braid of 100 Masters and non-speedy monks (Q. for Perfection Pt. 3 spoilers)


Pathfinder Society GM Discussion

Andoran *** Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka The Great Rinaldo!

Braid of a Hundred Masters wrote:
If the wearer of this necklace has levels in monk, his fast movement and unarmed damage are treated as a monk of 3 levels higher. If the character is not a monk, he gains the fast movement and unarmed damage of a 3rd-level monk.

What about monks who don't have fast movement (because it was replaced in an archetype, such as Flowing Monk)? Treating his movement as "3 levels higher" doesn't net him anything, since on his own track that's still no bonus movement. Should he get the movement of a 3rd level monk (treating him as a non-monk), or does he get fast movement back (and if so, at what effective level), or is he just out of luck because he gave up that class feature?

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

The Great Rinaldo! wrote:
Braid of a Hundred Masters wrote:
If the wearer of this necklace has levels in monk, his fast movement and unarmed damage are treated as a monk of 3 levels higher. If the character is not a monk, he gains the fast movement and unarmed damage of a 3rd-level monk.

What about monks who don't have fast movement (because it was replaced in an archetype, such as Flowing Monk)? Treating his movement as "3 levels higher" doesn't net him anything, since on his own track that's still no bonus movement. Should he get the movement of a 3rd level monk (treating him as a non-monk), or does he get fast movement back (and if so, at what effective level), or is he just out of luck because he gave up that class feature?

It looks like you just don't get anything by strict wording of the item, but considering even non-monks get a small boost, perhaps the powers that be will be merciful upon you and make a ruling that you would be treated as a non-monk for this purpose. I'm in favor of anything that encourages the item to be used more, given that the arc to find and activate is so epic, and my zen archer was sad to see it was of little use to her.

Paizo Employee ** Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Treat a monk without the fast movement class feature as a 0-level monk for the purposes of determining the bonus granted by the braid.

Shadow Lodge ****

Rogue Eidolon wrote:
, and my zen archer was sad to see it was of little use to her.

what do you mean "Does so little for ZA" Higher movment speed ... and when you spend a ki point to do unarmed damage with your arrows to the start of your next turn ? ... sounds pretty useful to me

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

Wraith235 wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
, and my zen archer was sad to see it was of little use to her.
what do you mean "Does so little for ZA" Higher movment speed ... and when you spend a ki point to do unarmed damage with your arrows to the start of your next turn ? ... sounds pretty useful to me

continued tangent:
It's in the action economy of swift actions (that ability you mention prevents the use of a ki point for an extra attack and thus is never used in practice by a zen archer). Any ability given to monks that costs a swift action and one or more ki points has to be competitive with gaining an extra attack to be used, unlike with say fighters where you don't have a core option to use the swift action each round.
Mark Moreland wrote:
Treat a monk without the fast movement class feature as a 0-level monk for the purposes of determining the bonus granted by the braid.

Awesome!

*

Slight tangent, but I wish this item didn't use a neck slot, kind of conflicts with any unarmed monks since they need the amulet of mighty fists and there's no such thing as permanent Magic Fang.

Andoran *** Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka The Great Rinaldo!

Mark Moreland wrote:
Treat a monk without the fast movement class feature as a 0-level monk for the purposes of determining the bonus granted by the braid.

That's what I figured the answer would be, thanks for the quick response!

Shadow Lodge ****

Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Wraith235 wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
, and my zen archer was sad to see it was of little use to her.
what do you mean "Does so little for ZA" Higher movment speed ... and when you spend a ki point to do unarmed damage with your arrows to the start of your next turn ? ... sounds pretty useful to me

** spoiler omitted **

9th level Flurry(full) Ki(swift) for extra damage

1d10 base = average of 5 x4 = 20

Vs

1d8 base = average of 4 x5 = 20

however once you crack the 2d6 barrier its Worth it

2d6 base = average of 7 x 5 = 35

vs.

1d8 base = average of 4 x6 =24

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

Wraith235 wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Wraith235 wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
, and my zen archer was sad to see it was of little use to her.
what do you mean "Does so little for ZA" Higher movment speed ... and when you spend a ki point to do unarmed damage with your arrows to the start of your next turn ? ... sounds pretty useful to me

** spoiler omitted **

9th level Flurry(full) Ki(swift) for extra damage

1d10 base = average of 5 x4 = 20

Vs

1d8 base = average of 4 x5 = 20

however once you crack the 2d6 barrier its Worth it

2d6 base = average of 7 x 5 = 35

vs.

1d8 base = average of 4 x6 =24

Derail:
If you are hitting with all the attacks, even those at the lower bonuses, and if you aren't applying any bonus damage at all, then that's almost correct since the average of 1d8 is 4.5 instead of 4 (for 27 instead of 24). This assumes that you don't have any extra damage per shot, though, and that every attack hits. I don't want to derail Rinaldo's thread further though--I enjoy the math and would be happy to continue in a new thread. I've started one here if you'd like.
**

As an aside, I absolutely hate how this super cool artifact is a neck slot item. This makes it near worthless for monks.

Qadira ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

In the same way that a mummified hand around the neck can grant the wearer a third ring slot, it would be cool to find an item that allows the wearer a second neck slot.

Taldor ****

Grow a second head. :)

Qadira ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

That's a convention boon, isn't it?

Andoran *

The Great Rinaldo! wrote:
Braid of a Hundred Masters wrote:
If the wearer of this necklace has levels in monk, his fast movement and unarmed damage are treated as a monk of 3 levels higher. If the character is not a monk, he gains the fast movement and unarmed damage of a 3rd-level monk.

What about monks who don't have fast movement (because it was replaced in an archetype, such as Flowing Monk)? Treating his movement as "3 levels higher" doesn't net him anything, since on his own track that's still no bonus movement. Should he get the movement of a 3rd level monk (treating him as a non-monk), or does he get fast movement back (and if so, at what effective level), or is he just out of luck because he gave up that class feature?

OK I a also have a question about this item, Not the mechanics of how it is used. It actually helped make my character build more interesting. But about item description editing. The above comment states that the item

"If the wearer of this necklace has levels in monk, his fast movement and unarmed damage are treated as a monk of 3 levels higher."

But after having played this scenario series in order with the same PC at Carnage by The Lake, (Nov 3-5th) in Vermont. My cert says:

"If the wearer of this necklace has levels in monk, his fast movement and unarmed damage are treated as a monk of 2 levels higher."

Is there a typo in the printings of the scenario?. Which one is correct?.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

Malehavoc's Revenge wrote:
The Great Rinaldo! wrote:
Braid of a Hundred Masters wrote:
If the wearer of this necklace has levels in monk, his fast movement and unarmed damage are treated as a monk of 3 levels higher. If the character is not a monk, he gains the fast movement and unarmed damage of a 3rd-level monk.

What about monks who don't have fast movement (because it was replaced in an archetype, such as Flowing Monk)? Treating his movement as "3 levels higher" doesn't net him anything, since on his own track that's still no bonus movement. Should he get the movement of a 3rd level monk (treating him as a non-monk), or does he get fast movement back (and if so, at what effective level), or is he just out of luck because he gave up that class feature?

OK I a also have a question about this item, Not the mechanics of how it is used. It actually helped make my character build more interesting. But about item description editing. The above comment states that the item

"If the wearer of this necklace has levels in monk, his fast movement and unarmed damage are treated as a monk of 3 levels higher."

But after having played this scenario series in order with the same PC at Carnage by The Lake, (Nov 3-5th) in Vermont. My cert says:

"If the wearer of this necklace has levels in monk, his fast movement and unarmed damage are treated as a monk of 2 levels higher."

Is there a typo in the printings of the scenario?. Which one is correct?.

You have the pre-errata version, which also costs less gp. Try to find the errataed version and switch to that. The errata was issued because non-monks gaining the fast movement of a level 2 monk did nothing.

Grand Lodge **

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Malehavoc's Revenge wrote:
Is there a typo in the printings of the scenario?. Which one is correct?.
You have the pre-errata version, which also costs less gp. Try to find the errataed version and switch to that. The errata was issued because non-monks gaining the fast movement of a level 2 monk did nothing.

Mark comments on this topic here.

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