paizo.com Recent Posts in Dual Wielding Bowspaizo.com Recent Posts in Dual Wielding Bows2012-11-05T23:55:46Z2012-11-05T23:55:46ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsJoanna Swiftbladehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#462012-11-10T01:31:54Z2012-11-10T01:31:54Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">The Mighty Khan wrote:</div><blockquote><p> As a rules lawyer and a DM, I am all about dual-wielding great swords with vestigial arm. I also find nothing prohibiting dual-wielding bows by RAW. However, as a DM, I don't think I'd allow it. </p>
<p>Part of the twohandedness of bows is the way a bow is <i>fired</i>: across the body. One doesn't fire like Hawkeye, falling from a building with his bow extended straight forward and his other arm in the middle of his chest. One must extend the bow arm fully to one side and draw the arrow across one's body. Therefore to dual wield, one bow would have to be awkwardly held away from the body so as not to conflict and tangle with the other bow. </p>
<p>Maybe a medium creature could dual-wield small shortbows, or maybe I'd make some kind of house rule about having to have the bows on opposite sides of the body pointed at two different targets.</p>
<p>So RAW it's all good, but practically it makes no sense to me. </blockquote><p>http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040815b&page=4
<p>This is the Arrow Demon, the 3.5 monster that I found who emulates such a feat. This should help you visualize how one might dual wield bows.</p>The Mighty Khan wrote:As a rules lawyer and a DM, I am all about dual-wielding great swords with vestigial arm. I also find nothing prohibiting dual-wielding bows by RAW. However, as a DM, I don't think I'd allow it.
Part of the twohandedness of bows is the way a bow is fired: across the body. One doesn't fire like Hawkeye, falling from a building with his bow extended straight forward and his other arm in the middle of his chest. One must extend the bow arm fully to one side and draw the...Joanna Swiftblade2012-11-10T01:31:54ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsHapplerhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#452012-11-10T00:59:29Z2012-11-10T00:59:29Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">The Mighty Khan wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Therefore to dual wield, one bow would have to be awkwardly held away from the body so as not to conflict and tangle with the other bow. </p>
<p></blockquote><p>Yep, thus the -4 to each attack (with the TWf feat). It is awkward as all heck and takes a fair amount of training for a character to be as good with both bows as a 1st level fighter is with one (like 4+ levels worth).The Mighty Khan wrote:Therefore to dual wield, one bow would have to be awkwardly held away from the body so as not to conflict and tangle with the other bow.
Yep, thus the -4 to each attack (with the TWf feat). It is awkward as all heck and takes a fair amount of training for a character to be as good with both bows as a 1st level fighter is with one (like 4+ levels worth).Happler2012-11-10T00:59:29ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsIlja (alias of stringburka)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#442012-11-09T22:47:31Z2012-11-09T22:47:31Z<p>I have a vague memory of seeing artwork of a marilith dualwielding bows.</p>
<p>Also, I assume you wouldn't dual-wield them as in "upper left + right arm" and "lower left+right arm" but rather "right upper+lower arm" and "left upper+lower arm".</p>I have a vague memory of seeing artwork of a marilith dualwielding bows.
Also, I assume you wouldn't dual-wield them as in "upper left + right arm" and "lower left+right arm" but rather "right upper+lower arm" and "left upper+lower arm".Ilja (alias of stringburka)2012-11-09T22:47:31ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsGrickhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#432012-11-09T22:44:34Z2012-11-09T19:31:53Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">The Mighty Khan wrote:</div><blockquote> Therefore to dual wield, one bow would have to be awkwardly held away from the body so as not to conflict and tangle with the other bow. </blockquote><p>So what's the problem with this? They're not both being fired at the same time. Hold a bow away a bit, fire the other one across your body or whatever. When you're done, hold that first one away and then fire the second one across your body.The Mighty Khan wrote:Therefore to dual wield, one bow would have to be awkwardly held away from the body so as not to conflict and tangle with the other bow.
So what's the problem with this? They're not both being fired at the same time. Hold a bow away a bit, fire the other one across your body or whatever. When you're done, hold that first one away and then fire the second one across your body.Grick2012-11-09T19:31:53ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsThe Mighty Khanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#422012-11-09T22:43:43Z2012-11-09T19:20:57Z<p>As a rules lawyer and a DM, I am all about dual-wielding great swords with vestigial arm. I also find nothing prohibiting dual-wielding bows by RAW. However, as a DM, I don't think I'd allow it. </p>
<p>Part of the twohandedness of bows is the way a bow is <i>fired</i>: across the body. One doesn't fire like Hawkeye, falling from a building with his bow extended straight forward and his other arm in the middle of his chest. One must extend the bow arm fully to one side and draw the arrow across one's body. Therefore to dual wield, one bow would have to be awkwardly held away from the body so as not to conflict and tangle with the other bow. </p>
<p>Maybe a medium creature could dual-wield small shortbows, or maybe I'd make some kind of house rule about having to have the bows on opposite sides of the body pointed at two different targets.</p>
<p>So RAW it's all good, but practically it makes no sense to me.</p>As a rules lawyer and a DM, I am all about dual-wielding great swords with vestigial arm. I also find nothing prohibiting dual-wielding bows by RAW. However, as a DM, I don't think I'd allow it.
Part of the twohandedness of bows is the way a bow is fired: across the body. One doesn't fire like Hawkeye, falling from a building with his bow extended straight forward and his other arm in the middle of his chest. One must extend the bow arm fully to one side and draw the arrow across one's body....The Mighty Khan2012-11-09T19:20:57ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsIlja (alias of stringburka)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#412012-11-09T18:05:03Z2012-11-09T18:05:03Z<p>I'm remembering somewhere an argument being put forward that you can two-weapon fight with a greatsword and a thrown dagger (with two hands). When I get home i'll try to find that, see what was said there.</p>
<p>I agree it's probably not intended, just said the rules are unclear and that argument could be made.</p>
<p>However, you couldn't do it with two hands since you need to actually have the hand free, so unless you had quickdraw it would not work. If we have bow 1 and 2 and hands A, B, C we can potentially hold bow 1 and 2 in hands A and B and use C to fire them, alternating between. With two hands, we would need to actually drop the bows in between since we'd have to use hand B to fire bow 1 and vice versa.</p>
<p>Note that I'm not saying "this is how it works" or "this is how it should work", I'm saying "it's possible to interpret it that way and not completely insane, but it's probably not intended". Since it's a rules question I thought it'd be worth mentioning it.</p>I'm remembering somewhere an argument being put forward that you can two-weapon fight with a greatsword and a thrown dagger (with two hands). When I get home i'll try to find that, see what was said there.
I agree it's probably not intended, just said the rules are unclear and that argument could be made.
However, you couldn't do it with two hands since you need to actually have the hand free, so unless you had quickdraw it would not work. If we have bow 1 and 2 and hands A, B, C we can...Ilja (alias of stringburka)2012-11-09T18:05:03ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsGrickhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#402012-11-09T17:27:17Z2012-11-09T17:27:17Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ilja wrote:</div><blockquote>Whether you can dual-wield two weapons that require two hands if you have three hands is a bit gray ruleswise (since you can change grip as a free action and can hold a weapon in one hand) but probably not intended. </blockquote><p>If that worked, you could do it with two hands.
<p>Hold bow in right hand, use left hand to draw/load, use left hand to help fire. </p>
<p>Drop bow, draw other bow.</p>
<p>Hold new bow in left hand, use right hand to draw/load, use right hand to help fire.</p>
<p>This doesn't work because when you use Two-Weapon Fighting, you're locked into a decision of primary weapon and off-hand weapon, which most people interpret to mean individual hands, and they use the rule for natural weapon+manufactured weapon to say that you can't use a hand you used for primary weapon to also wield an off-hand weapon. Thus, you can't two-weapon fight with a longspear and a gauntlet, since you're using your gauntlet hand to wield the longspear. (You could totally do this with iterative attacks, just not TWF) While that is probably the intent, it's not really explicit anywhere, and it's especially confusing with the paizo confluence of hands = attacks.</p>Ilja wrote:Whether you can dual-wield two weapons that require two hands if you have three hands is a bit gray ruleswise (since you can change grip as a free action and can hold a weapon in one hand) but probably not intended.
If that worked, you could do it with two hands. Hold bow in right hand, use left hand to draw/load, use left hand to help fire.
Drop bow, draw other bow.
Hold new bow in left hand, use right hand to draw/load, use right hand to help fire.
This doesn't work because...Grick2012-11-09T17:27:17ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsIlja (alias of stringburka)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#392012-11-09T00:04:05Z2012-11-09T00:04:05Z<p>Technically, it's a ranged weapons that requires two hands to use.</p>
<p>Whether you can dual-wield two weapons that require two hands if you have three hands is a bit gray ruleswise (since you can change grip as a free action and can hold a weapon in one hand) but probably not intended.</p>Technically, it's a ranged weapons that requires two hands to use.
Whether you can dual-wield two weapons that require two hands if you have three hands is a bit gray ruleswise (since you can change grip as a free action and can hold a weapon in one hand) but probably not intended.Ilja (alias of stringburka)2012-11-09T00:04:05ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsMichael Sayre (Design Manager)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#382012-11-08T23:11:26Z2012-11-08T23:11:26Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mapleswitch wrote:</div><blockquote> Why would you need 2 vestigial arms to dual wield bows instead of just 1? Your main hands are the only hands that can attack. Whether it is the vestigial arm holding the bow and the two hands each having their own arrows to knock and fire or each hand has their own bow and the vestigial arm retrieves and fires 2 arrows. I don't quite get where the need for the 2nd vestigial arm comes into play. Holding a shield while you dual wield bows? </blockquote><p>A bow is a two-handed weapon. You need two hands per bow.Mapleswitch wrote:Why would you need 2 vestigial arms to dual wield bows instead of just 1? Your main hands are the only hands that can attack. Whether it is the vestigial arm holding the bow and the two hands each having their own arrows to knock and fire or each hand has their own bow and the vestigial arm retrieves and fires 2 arrows. I don't quite get where the need for the 2nd vestigial arm comes into play. Holding a shield while you dual wield bows?
A bow is a two-handed weapon. You...Michael Sayre (Design Manager)2012-11-08T23:11:26ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsMapleswitchhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#372012-11-08T22:42:55Z2012-11-08T22:42:55Z<p>Why would you need 2 vestigial arms to dual wield bows instead of just 1? Your main hands are the only hands that can attack. Whether it is the vestigial arm holding the bow and the two hands each having their own arrows to knock and fire or each hand has their own bow and the vestigial arm retrieves and fires 2 arrows. I don't quite get where the need for the 2nd vestigial arm comes into play. Holding a shield while you dual wield bows?</p>Why would you need 2 vestigial arms to dual wield bows instead of just 1? Your main hands are the only hands that can attack. Whether it is the vestigial arm holding the bow and the two hands each having their own arrows to knock and fire or each hand has their own bow and the vestigial arm retrieves and fires 2 arrows. I don't quite get where the need for the 2nd vestigial arm comes into play. Holding a shield while you dual wield bows?Mapleswitch2012-11-08T22:42:55ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsSeraphimpunkhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#362012-11-07T16:17:05Z2012-11-07T16:17:05Z<p>yeah bows aren't light. i'd say -6/-10 </p>
<p>the better option would be to dual wield hand, light, or heavy crossbows with the rapid reload or crossbow mastery, and use the vestigial arms to reload both weapons , not normally possible in a dual wield crossbow build.</p>yeah bows aren't light. i'd say -6/-10
the better option would be to dual wield hand, light, or heavy crossbows with the rapid reload or crossbow mastery, and use the vestigial arms to reload both weapons , not normally possible in a dual wield crossbow build.Seraphimpunk2012-11-07T16:17:05ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding Bowsblackbloodtrollhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#352012-11-07T15:12:43Z2012-11-07T15:12:43Z<p>The arms are noted as fully able to wield weapons.</p>The arms are noted as fully able to wield weapons.blackbloodtroll2012-11-07T15:12:43ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsBarry Armstronghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#342012-11-07T14:59:25Z2012-11-07T14:59:25Z<p>This won't appeal to the RAW lawyers, but the definition of "vestigial" is barely functioning or evolved out. Like the appendix on a human. It's not really used for anything.</p>
<p>The extra arms exist, but they'd be barely useful as arms. They'd be barely more useful than prehensile tails. Hence the descriptor limiting extra attacks with them. They'd be able to hold objects, possibly help to reload crossbows/guns, etc...</p>This won't appeal to the RAW lawyers, but the definition of "vestigial" is barely functioning or evolved out. Like the appendix on a human. It's not really used for anything.
The extra arms exist, but they'd be barely useful as arms. They'd be barely more useful than prehensile tails. Hence the descriptor limiting extra attacks with them. They'd be able to hold objects, possibly help to reload crossbows/guns, etc...Barry Armstrong2012-11-07T14:59:25ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding Bowsblackbloodtrollhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#332012-11-07T14:34:32Z2012-11-07T14:26:04Z<p>Like main Boot Blade, and off-hand Longspear.</p>Like main Boot Blade, and off-hand Longspear.blackbloodtroll2012-11-07T14:26:04ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsIlja (alias of stringburka)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#322012-11-07T14:23:18Z2012-11-07T14:23:18Z<p>oh you might be right, but there's a sh•tload of other combinations you can use like gauntlet+greatsword (changing grip is a free action), blade boot + greatsword, or simply unarmed strike + greatsword.</p>oh you might be right, but there's a sh*tload of other combinations you can use like gauntlet+greatsword (changing grip is a free action), blade boot + greatsword, or simply unarmed strike + greatsword.Ilja (alias of stringburka)2012-11-07T14:23:18ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsGrickhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#312012-11-07T14:16:37Z2012-11-07T14:16:37Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ilja wrote:</div><blockquote> You can have off-hand two-weapon attacks without any alchemist or extra limbs, like main armor spikes and off-hand longspear.</blockquote><p>You can't primary the armor spikes. You could primary the longspear and off-hand the armor spikes (unless you're in PFS), but the other way around is prohibited by the leftover cruft in the armor spikes description from when it was changed to be a regular light weapon.Ilja wrote:You can have off-hand two-weapon attacks without any alchemist or extra limbs, like main armor spikes and off-hand longspear.
You can't primary the armor spikes. You could primary the longspear and off-hand the armor spikes (unless you're in PFS), but the other way around is prohibited by the leftover cruft in the armor spikes description from when it was changed to be a regular light weapon.Grick2012-11-07T14:16:37ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsIlja (alias of stringburka)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#302012-11-07T14:05:19Z2012-11-07T14:05:19Z<p>You can have off-hand two-weapon attacks without any alchemist or extra limbs, like main armor spikes and off-hand longspear.</p>
<p>So it's not really one-handed = -4, it's "not light" = -4.</p>You can have off-hand two-weapon attacks without any alchemist or extra limbs, like main armor spikes and off-hand longspear.
So it's not really one-handed = -4, it's "not light" = -4.Ilja (alias of stringburka)2012-11-07T14:05:19ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsMacGurculeshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#292012-11-07T05:36:50Z2012-11-07T03:29:23Z<p>Yep. TWF doesn't make a distinction between light, one-handed, and two-handed. It just has light and not-light. Bows are clearly not light weapons, so with the feat, it should be -4/-4.</p>Yep. TWF doesn't make a distinction between light, one-handed, and two-handed. It just has light and not-light. Bows are clearly not light weapons, so with the feat, it should be -4/-4.MacGurcules2012-11-07T03:29:23ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsMalachi Silverclaw (alias of Matt Bray)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#282012-11-07T02:50:48Z2012-11-07T02:50:48Z<p>TWF penalties are calculated on whatever is designated as the 'off-hand' weapon for any particular round. BTW, 'off-hand' is a term which <i>deliberately</i> does not appear anywhere in the entire game system <i>apart</i> from TWF!</p>
<p>The penalty by category of the off-hand weapon:-</p>
<p>• light= -2
<br />
• one-handed= -4
<br />
• two-handed= er...there is no such thing!</p>
<p>Okay, let's try this another way:-</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Two-Weapon Fighting wrote:</div><blockquote></p>
<p>Circumstances Primary Hand Off Hand
<br />
Normal penalties –6 –10
<br />
Off-hand weapon is light –4 –8
<br />
Two-Weapon Fighting feat –4 –4
<br />
Off-hand weapon is light and Two-Weapon Fighting feat –2 –2</blockquote><p>So, the penalties start at a set amount, and are <i>reduced</i> by 'off-hand weapon is light' AND/OR 'TWF feat'.
<p>The dual bow user is assumed to have the feat, so the original penalty of -6/-10 is reduced by 2/6 to leave penalties of -4/-4.</p>
<p>Is the off-hand weapon a light weapon? Er...no.</p>
<p>So there is no reduction of that penalty for 'off-hand weapon is light', leaving the final TWF penalty for dual bows as -4/-4.</p>TWF penalties are calculated on whatever is designated as the 'off-hand' weapon for any particular round. BTW, 'off-hand' is a term which deliberately does not appear anywhere in the entire game system apart from TWF!
The penalty by category of the off-hand weapon:-
• light= -2
• one-handed= -4
• two-handed= er...there is no such thing!
Okay, let's try this another way:-
Two-Weapon Fighting wrote:Circumstances Primary Hand Off Hand
Normal penalties –6 –10
Off-hand weapon is light –4 –8...Malachi Silverclaw (alias of Matt Bray)2012-11-07T02:50:48ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding Bowsblackbloodtrollhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#272012-11-07T01:25:40Z2012-11-07T01:25:40Z<p>A Bow requires two hands to use.</p>
<p>I would treat it as wielding a pair of two-handed weapons.</p>A Bow requires two hands to use.
I would treat it as wielding a pair of two-handed weapons.blackbloodtroll2012-11-07T01:25:40ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsMacGurculeshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#262012-11-07T00:21:29Z2012-11-07T00:21:29Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Seraphimpunk wrote:</div><blockquote>isn't there a monster that uses two bows in pathfinder? or is that just in 3.5? i'd say look at that as a model for the penalty. </blockquote><p><a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/xill" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Xill</a> can appear with two longbows. They're not a great example, though, since they've got Multiweapon Mastery.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Kolokotroni wrote:</div><blockquote> I would say -4 -4, since bows are not light weapons. </blockquote><p>Agreed.
<p>Also, it's worth noting that you can pull this trick with just two levels in Alchemist if you spend a feat on Extra Discovery.</p>Seraphimpunk wrote:isn't there a monster that uses two bows in pathfinder? or is that just in 3.5? i'd say look at that as a model for the penalty.
Xill can appear with two longbows. They're not a great example, though, since they've got Multiweapon Mastery. Kolokotroni wrote:I would say -4 -4, since bows are not light weapons.
Agreed. Also, it's worth noting that you can pull this trick with just two levels in Alchemist if you spend a feat on Extra Discovery.MacGurcules2012-11-07T00:21:29ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsKolokotronihttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#252012-11-09T18:59:57Z2012-11-06T21:46:50Z<p>I would say -4 -4, since bows are not light weapons.</p>I would say -4 -4, since bows are not light weapons.Kolokotroni2012-11-06T21:46:50ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsSeraphimpunkhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#242012-11-06T21:45:07Z2012-11-06T21:45:07Z<p>seconded. the question remains what the penalty would be, not if the person could do it.
<br />
using the TWF doesn't grant extra attacks. </p>
<p>the alchemist is not asking to take 4 claw attacks. that would be extra attacks.
<br />
if it specifically allows two weapon fighting in the attack routine, then the extra arms can be used to fit the requirement of using two bows. </p>
<p>isn't there a monster that uses two bows in pathfinder? or is that just in 3.5? i'd say look at that as a model for the penalty.</p>seconded. the question remains what the penalty would be, not if the person could do it.
using the TWF doesn't grant extra attacks.
the alchemist is not asking to take 4 claw attacks. that would be extra attacks.
if it specifically allows two weapon fighting in the attack routine, then the extra arms can be used to fit the requirement of using two bows.
isn't there a monster that uses two bows in pathfinder? or is that just in 3.5? i'd say look at that as a model for the penalty.Seraphimpunk2012-11-06T21:45:07ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsJoanna Swiftbladehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#232012-11-06T21:27:07Z2012-11-06T21:27:07Z<p>"The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, though the arm can wield a weapon and make attacks as part of the alchemist’s attack routine (using two-weapon fighting)"</p>
<p>As far as I'm concerned, if a PC dips 4 levels into Alch to get the four arms, then he can have the two bows. It was more of a question of "For the purposes of TWF, what penalties should bows impart upon the user?"</p>"The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, though the arm can wield a weapon and make attacks as part of the alchemist’s attack routine (using two-weapon fighting)"
As far as I'm concerned, if a PC dips 4 levels into Alch to get the four arms, then he can have the two bows. It was more of a question of "For the purposes of TWF, what penalties should bows impart upon the user?"Joanna Swiftblade2012-11-06T21:27:07ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Dual Wielding BowsRuyanVehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4hr?Dual-Wielding-Bows#222012-11-06T18:21:13Z2012-11-06T18:21:13Z<p>Don't forget Skill Focus (Profession [cook])!</p>
<p>•end of derailment•</p>Don't forget Skill Focus (Profession [cook])!
*end of derailment*RuyanVe2012-11-06T18:21:13Z