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16 Dex Ranger vs. The World


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion


I'm playing a ranger with a 14 strength and a 16 dexterity in a Pathfinder Society game in a little bit.

I gave him point blank shot and weapon focus longbow.

Think he can survive?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Sorry. Hate to tell you, but he's already dead.


I would have probably gone for a different feat than weapon focus, but I don't see any reason your ranger shouldn't be survivable. He'll have a +3 dex AC modifier and a +2 to his arrow damage with a str adjusted bow.

The rest is up to you and your group, but I've seen far less survivable characters.


Your m8's will probably want you to take precise shot b4 WF. But yes he van survive...


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Get him a greatsword when you can. 2d6+3 damage is nice at low levels. You may not want to do melee, but sometimes you don't have a choice.


If you're planning on switching between melee and ranged attacks often I would hold off on weapon focus.


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Well, basically everyone else died. PFS is such a piece of crap. That was my second game and the same thing happened as last time.

A bunch of first level characters go into a dungeon that is suppose to be fair if you are all 2nd to 3rd level and you get your butts kicked by GM who thinks PC damage is fun.

I lived because I could escape.


What scenario was it?

Shadow Lodge

Get point blank shot. You can rebuild at first level.

Then get the dm to run first steps or something. There's a HUGE difference between first and second level, and almost as big a difference between your first adventure and your second one.

Also consider a new DM. If they whipped a bunch of first levels twice they're doing it wrong.


Basically what bignorsewolf said, even the best designed adventures can be ruined by inept or vindictive gms. Dont let a couple bad experiences sour you to what many people enjoy.

If you lack gms in your area and its a "this guy or nothing" kind of thing, dont forget this is the computer age. Finding games online, either pbp or over a virtual tabletop is fairly easy.

I run my local game and finally found a live online game in which i get to pc. Let me tell you its amazingly fun and im glad every week that i found it.

Keep at it you'll find the right group and be glad you did.


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Smart play beats smart builds everyday. As long as you do not run into a group of weak players you should be fine.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

Get point blank shot. You can rebuild at first level.

Then get the dm to run first steps or something. There's a HUGE difference between first and second level, and almost as big a difference between your first adventure and your second one.

Also consider a new DM. If they whipped a bunch of first levels twice they're doing it wrong.

Eh, this is a second GM. It is a random group of about 20 people. I don't think the problem is just the GM, I think it is PFS.

Apparently they think they can lose their GM credentials if they don't run RAW including the adventure, and the lowest level the adventure scales to is "character levels 1-3" or whatever. If we had more level than that the enemies would be doubled or something.

Plus you get these stupid conversations.

"Go into the museum and fight the undead."

"Well, we don't have a cleric or a magic weapon, so we need one or the other because we probably can't hurt these things."

"Well, too bad."

"I go to the temple and ask for help. Do they have a sword we can borrow?"

"No."

"How about the people that own the museum?"

"No."

"The town guard must be invested in these things not coming out of the museum; can they help?"

"No."

"Is there a display in the museum that has a magic weapon we can borrow?"

"Maybe but the displays move around magically so no one would know where it is."

"Fine. We go in."

"Good, behold my power. NPCs with 25 HP and DR 5 / Magic."

"Oh good."


Sorry, I just need to vent. A 4 hour game like this gave me the mind fog headache that will not quit.


You do not need magic weapons. You can still grapple, pin and tie up something. If this is the quest I am thinking it is there are more fearsome monsters then those at the door.

If you are new to PFS find some Vets and steal their tactics. learn and grow.

IF you get owned by that then the higher levels mods will kill them easier if they do nto have means right now and thus cause othr people to die.


Finlanderboy wrote:

You do not need magic weapons. You can still grapple, pin and tie up something. If this is the quest I am thinking it is there are more fearsome monsters then those at the door.

If you are new to PFS find some Vets and steal their tactics. learn and grow.

IF you get owned by that then the higher levels mods will kill them easier if they do nto have means right now and thus cause othr people to die.

You really can't if they outnumber you or are close to doing so, or if trying causes you to eat a d10+4 AoO for a zombie statue with a two handed weapon.

And we made it to the last door. We had one PC dead and one knocked out. The two of us left decided to open the last door and try to turn off the unkillable zombie statues by breaking the monkey shrines. So we go in their and of course there is a giant monkey waiting.

So I hold my action for it to jump down, shoot it with an arrow trying to get it to fall 50' instead of jump down 50'. That of course doesn't work. So I shake my butt at it and run out into the hallway sense the GM clearly describes it being too big to fit through the door (how did it get in?).

So I try to keep it pissed and shoot it with a few arrows. I was waiting for it to just run away or climb out of view or pick something up to throw at me, but instead it magically fits through the door with an acrobatics roll and knocks me out. Our gnome hits the first monkey shrine 3 times and can't break it, so he runs out, drags me out, the end.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It doesn't sound like the problem is PFS.

If this was Mists of the Mwangi at 1-2, the fights are not overpowered or unbalanced, although having a balanced group can help. Ask your local PFS coordinator to run First Steps for you guys so you can come at adventures like that as level 2 adventurers, and you might have an easier time of it.

I've played Mists, and either your GMs are out to kill you (possible), or you guys just had bad luck.


Mergy wrote:

It doesn't sound like the problem is PFS.

If this was Mists of the Mwangi at 1-2, the fights are not overpowered or unbalanced, although having a balanced group can help. Ask your local PFS coordinator to run First Steps for you guys so you can come at adventures like that as level 2 adventurers, and you might have an easier time of it.

I've played Mists, and either your GMs are out to kill you (possible), or you guys just had bad luck.

It wasn't bad luck. We scored at least 3 critical hits, I think 4. One of them was with a bow. All were for over 20 damage.


Have someone go full defense and walk past the monster and provke. There the AoO is used up. Have the rest of you gang tackle it. The combat manuevers are very powerful. Learn to exploit them.

The monster squeezing through a door it is capable of doing this. If you position yourself right you can make it much harder by having to jump around you what I think the DM did. I am not sure. I was not there so I can not fully defend either position.

You could have a cehating DM. I have had those before.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cranefist wrote:
Mergy wrote:

It doesn't sound like the problem is PFS.

If this was Mists of the Mwangi at 1-2, the fights are not overpowered or unbalanced, although having a balanced group can help. Ask your local PFS coordinator to run First Steps for you guys so you can come at adventures like that as level 2 adventurers, and you might have an easier time of it.

I've played Mists, and either your GMs are out to kill you (possible), or you guys just had bad luck.

It wasn't bad luck. We scored at least 3 critical hits, I think 4. One of them was with a bow. All were for over 20 damage.

Very well, you guys got crits. What was the group makeup? Did you have people with wands of cure light wounds so you could go into every fight fresh? Was everyone working together?

You had some deaths; did the GM seem happy or upset when they happened?


Mergy wrote:
Cranefist wrote:
Mergy wrote:

It doesn't sound like the problem is PFS.

If this was Mists of the Mwangi at 1-2, the fights are not overpowered or unbalanced, although having a balanced group can help. Ask your local PFS coordinator to run First Steps for you guys so you can come at adventures like that as level 2 adventurers, and you might have an easier time of it.

I've played Mists, and either your GMs are out to kill you (possible), or you guys just had bad luck.

It wasn't bad luck. We scored at least 3 critical hits, I think 4. One of them was with a bow. All were for over 20 damage.

Very well, you guys got crits. What was the group makeup? Did you have people with wands of cure light wounds so you could go into every fight fresh? Was everyone working together?

You had some deaths; did the GM seem happy or upset when they happened?

I don't know him well enough. His behavior struck me as fake upset, but he seemed throughly entertained.

We had a bard who could cast cure light wounds 3 times, two rangers and a fighter. The other ranger and the fighter were highly optimized.

As far as working together, yes. The ranger would hit, five foot step out of melee, I would hold action and take my shot then. We were under inspire courage most of the time. We focused fire and did lots of damage.

All four characters were in their first game, so no one had any magic items or masterwork equipment.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well then I repeat: you had bad luck. It's also going to be difficult for four fresh level one characters to make it out of an adventure unscathed.

If you had fun, go back. If you didn't have fun, it's not the end of the world. I happen to enjoy PFS very much, and have never had an experience like the one you're reporting.


Well little things add up. In my PFS group there are 3 guys that with any character seem to make adventures easy. Basic every time use strategies are good to know, but sometimes a powerfull party leader saving a hit here, not getting the group surprised there, and etc can add up to huge things. Plus one character doing a silly move and getting downed can put huge preasure on the group.

I think there is luck involved but it is calculated luck. Playing wisley and taking risks when the luck is in your favor can behuge, and vise versa. If the group was downed just for "luck", I would say a few poor choices led the down fall.


You don't know it, but a monk (or any char) with deflect arrows will really ruin your day.

Funny how weak low level archery builds can be.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

In 3.0, I played a low level ranger (1-3) with PBS and Rapid Shot (plus free Ambidexterity AND Two-Weapon Fighting), and it was very very effective. A body can only Deflect Arrows once per round, so with Rapid Shot, you get a second shot of hitting them!

Andoran RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

You'll do just fine. 16 DEX, 14 STR is a good stat loadout for any archer character.

I would suggest starting with some Tier 1-2 scenarios just to get yourself up to 2nd or 3rd level. Everybody's fragile at 1st level.


Kind of funny, OP first post to 2nd were just over 4 hrs apart. Ranger 14 STR, 16 DEX survivable? Yes, though as an archer type you should take human and boost DEX to 18 to start. And as has been said, save WF until later levels, take PBS and Precise Shot at 1st.

But yeah, if you're going into a scenario with a total of 4 first level guys, and all with just gear from the starting 150gp, expect to die in PFS unless the GM cuts you some serious slack. The difference between 1st scenario and 2nd for you? Spend 2pp, get a masterwork composite longbow of +2 STR, and now you're +1 to hit and +2 damage. With precise shot over Weapon Focus, you've gained +3 to hit in most combat situations. Take favored enemy human or undead at 1st level, and you're that much better off, probably.


I've been on the other end of a no experience group before. 5 IIRC 1st level no xp PCs running through first steps part 1. Near TPK on the final encounter (no deaths, but 3 character were unconscious)

Nearly all of their problems had to do with terrible builds + terrible tactics. A ranged touch spell wizard with 12 dex, who primarily used a long spear. A druid with domain instead of animal companion (actually pretty well played and built, but lack of competent party members hurt this choice). A summoner who had one of the worst eidolon builds I've seen and mostly just summoned ponies. A bard who primarily used nets and tripped with a whip (party MVP and primary damage dealer/healer/face/controller, hell, she carried the party through the whole thing). And a party anchor that I don't even recall what it was it was so badly played (I think it was a healing focused cleric, but I don't remember too well).

Highlight was when the wizard tried to cast a ray at a prone in combat on the other side of a pony enemy. Now total those negative modifiers up. Now add the whopping +1 dex mod... Anytime you need the "20 always hits" rule to be able to hit with a TOUCH attack means your probably doing it wrong.

So that being said, PFS is a cakewalk at low levels for players with decent rules mastery. My first few adventures saw my level 1 dwarven cleric playing up every game. Highlight was tanking an enlarged gnoll in a confined space so the barbarian who was our primary damage dealer could withdraw to heal (he was in the rage ends die with only 2 rounds of rage left, got to love low AC barbarian builds). Then getting a crit with a heavy pick killing the boss handily (12+4d6 damage is pretty brutal).

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