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Does Spell Specialization effect Concentration ?


Rules Questions

The Exchange

Spell Specialization effects your caster level when determining benefits of a spell. Does it also effect your Concentration when made to cast that spell defensively?

Say you had the trait Magical Adept, and Spell Specialization, and Varisian Tattoo. for a total of +4 to the caster level with one spell (of the varisian tattoo's school), would that equate to a +4 to concentration when casting the spell? or just when determining effects of the spell?

Star Voter 2013

Spell specialization only changes effects of the spell, therefore it doesn't read to me like it would affect you concentration.

Sczarni

It says in Spell Specialization text "Treat your caster level as being two higher for all level-variable effects of the spell."

I believe key word is of the spell. Concentration is related with spells of course, but it's not part of spell or spell effect. I am however 60% sure of this. I can't say that I know answer really.

Star Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I would say anything that affects your character level when casting that specific spell would be included. but....

RAW: If the trait/feat alters says it alters all the 'effects' of the spell' then the answer is they wouldnt stack.

So if you have all those feats/traits I would say the following would occur.

Gifted Adept - Does not stack
Spell Specialization - Does not stack
Varisian Tatoo - Does stack.
Orange Ioun Stone - Does stack
Precocious Spellcaster - Does stack

Of course this is just based on the wording of the feats/traits in question. Their intent is another matter.

I dont see it as a game breaker and if realistically your that specialized ona single spell then it's more than likely that your caster is so good at it that he should get the bonus for all the feats/traits.

but thats just me becuase my wizard is also a one spell wonder!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

With respect, I disagree. It does indeed effect your concentration modifiers.

Also, Pathfinder game developers have already made it clear that Caster Level affects Concentration Checks and that the same character can have multiple different Concentration Check modifiers for different things.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
A half-fiend drow sorcerer cleric is going to have drow SLAs, half-fiend SLAs, sorcerer SLAs, cleric SLAs, sorcerer spellcasting, and cleric spellcasting, each of which has different caster levels and concentration check values.

The Exchange

i can understand having different concentrations for different classes and SLAs. they're all different. from your sorcerer to your cleric spells to your SLAs.

Ravingdork, there's a difference in having a concentration check for you wizard levels, and having a separate concentration check for one spell. Don't construe the developers talking about one, with the other.

Shivok, is that interpretation on the benefits from those various feats/items not stacking? or is there any definitive ruling on it? I'd love to nerf a power gamer around here. lol.

my ruling at the table was that the bonuses don't change your overall caster level, and didn't apply to concentration. After the fact, looking for consensus on the situation.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Why ask for input on the matter if you've already made up your mind?

The Exchange

I said I made a ruling at the table during the game. That doesn't mean my mind is made up about it. If I made the ruling in error, and someone knows a specific that'll handle this corner case, I'd like to know about it, so I can learn and evolve as a GM.

The Exchange

this might apply

Magic Section on Caster Level

Quote:
In the event that a class feature or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt), but also to your caster level check to overcome your target's spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the DC of the check).

it doesn't mention Concentration as one of the variables that an adjustment applies to.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

But it does set a precedence for caster level effecting things beyond the spell. The omission of Concentration was likely just an oversight.


It doesn't say that it does affect concentration; it also doesn't say that it doesn't affect it.

Personally, I'd let it affect it; keep everything that alters caster level working in the same way: affecting everything based on caster level. Keep it simple, for sanity.

It also isn't difficult to justify on the flavor side. You've specialized in this spell, so you're better at concentrating on this spell than on other spells of the same level.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ascalaphus wrote:

It doesn't say that it does affect concentration; it also doesn't say that it doesn't affect it.

Personally, I'd let it affect it; keep everything that alters caster level working in the same way: affecting everything based on caster level. Keep it simple, for sanity.

It also isn't difficult to justify on the flavor side. You've specialized in this spell, so you're better at concentrating on this spell than on other spells of the same level.

Agreed. Any other interpretation makes things difficult as you don't really know when and where to draw the line. Best keep it simple.


No it would not work. It only applies to variable aspects of a spell that work off of caster level.

As an example fireball deals in damage dice related to caster level so you would be able to get additional damage dice.

If a spell similar to fireball had set dice that varied by caster level then the feat would not do anything for that spell.

Basically you have to look to see which parts of the spell would be affected that and that vary depending on the caster level.

The Exchange

yeah, but caster level is listed clearly as determining your concentration check. so its hard to say when to draw the line for caster level effects and whether they effect concentration.

looking at shivok's list again , based on wording i'm more inclined to think that next time yeah, i'd allow some of them based on wording, to effect concentration checks.

spell specialization i looked again at the wording and says
[quot]Treat your caster level as being two higher for all level-variable effects of the spell.

so it sounds like it only does change the level dependent stuff for the spell.

things like the orange prism ioun stone just flat raise your caster level.
if you had multiple caster levels like some aforementioned half fiend drow sorcerer cleric, all the concentration checks would probably increase by one caster level.

Its hard to read the intent of the developers on this, since sometimes the wording on the ability is it increases level dependent parts of the spell, and sometimes its just flat caster level. =/


Concentration is not a variable affect of a spell. Only certain spells have variable affects.

Star Voter 2013

Seraphimpunk wrote:

yeah, but caster level is listed clearly as determining your concentration check. so its hard to say when to draw the line for caster level effects and whether they effect concentration.

looking at shivok's list again , based on wording i'm more inclined to think that next time yeah, i'd allow some of them based on wording, to effect concentration checks.

spell specialization i looked again at the wording and says

Quote:
Treat your caster level as being two higher for all level-variable effects of the spell.

so it sounds like it only does change the level dependent stuff for the spell.

things like the orange prism ioun stone just flat raise your caster level.
if you had multiple caster levels like some aforementioned half fiend drow sorcerer cleric, all the concentration checks would probably increase by one caster level.

Its hard to read the intent of the developers on this, since sometimes the wording on the ability is it increases level dependent parts of the spell, and sometimes its just flat caster level. =/

I think this is much more clear than many rules. EFFECTS of the spells are things that happens because of the spell, it is on the back end of the casting. Concentration checks AFFECT whether or not a spell works, it is on the front end of the casting. The act of casting is where you draw the line. Those two words have been muddled since post one.


Hmm. Reading the feat again, it does spell out rather clearly that it gives a bonus to "level-variable effects", and those are mostly the "interior" parts of the spell; not the outside effects (dispel difficulty, SR penetration, concentration).

Although this does lead to the odd situation where specialized Dispel Magic (probably) gains a bonus to the caster level check to dispel something, but other specialized spells don't get a caster level bonus to resist dispelling.

The Exchange

verses other feats/abilities that say they increase the caster level for that spell/school.

also, a dev would usually look at the list of what's affected by the caster level ( spell penetration, that stuff i quoted before ). and say "is it listed as allowed or listed as something that changes? then it probably doesn't change".

The Exchange

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

related: Toppling spell metamagic and spell spec. My opinion is that "level variable effects" is only number of dice/missiles/targets, duration, and range. But it seems a consensus would be a challenge to come to.

So I'm going to ask this question(s) and FAQ request it.

Does Spell Specialization effect the following things?
Concentration Checks?
Overcoming spell resistance?
Toppling spell?
Difficulty to Dispel?

i'm currently leaning towards no on all of them, but I'd like it to be yes :D

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