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Obama is the Greatest American President?


Off-Topic Discussions

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The Exchange

I'd have to say the suggestion that this is so is false. Simply being America's First African American President does not make one Great - it is the fact that you achieved great things that make's one Great.

What did Yoda Say? "Wars do not make One Great."

And No, other than proving that you can run for President, he didn't achieve anything worthwhile. His Political Stance on the obligation to do right by the whole populace proved he was a supporter of every man for himself - winner takes all. That attitude may be OK in the Bottom of a Pit where you are fighting Dogs for Food (let alone the right to live) but it isn't when the negligence of the people who govern has resulted in the governed being Homeless and Hungry.

The Exchange Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014, Dedicated Voter 2015

So aside from you in your thread title, exactly who is saying that Obama is the greatest?

The Exchange

Shadowborn wrote:
So aside from you in your thread title, exactly who is saying that Obama is the greatest?

US Correspondent Paul Toohey.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I thought everyone knew the greatest president in US history is Mrs Wilson.


yellowdingo wrote:
I'd have to say the suggestion that this is so is false. Simply being America's First African American President does not make one Great - it is the fact that you achieved great things that make's one Great.

I can't find whatever article you're referring to, but this article makes a strong case for Obama as a great President.

Quote:
And No, other than proving that you can run for President, he didn't achieve anything worthwhile.

That's simply false, and it's a little weird that anyone would try to claim otherwise. Every President has accomplished something worthwhile. It's pretty hard to run a country full of politicians with pet projects and actually accomplish nothing. You'd have to be a true master politician willing to put a lot of effort into ensuring nothing worthwhile gets done. So it's a pretty safe bet that, when someone tells you the President has accomplished nothing worthwhile in four years, you probably shouldn't take anything they have to say seriously.

yellowdingo, in case you're interested in not being a liar in the future, go ahead and check out this site.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Eleanor Rooosevelt and her cousin in law Teddy were the best. Eleanor's husband was kind of a dud, but she propped him up nicely.

Obama is Bush redux, with less stuttering, but just as much idiotoc crap coming out of his pie hole, and he's Carter redux in effectiveness. The only reason people think he's decent is he gets good press. Otherwise, he's definitely bottom quarter.

Clinton was the the most effective (not "good", "effective") President in my lifetime, followed by Reagan. Nixon was ok, but the whole being paranoid and a jackass think kind of drives him down, as well as the stupid price and wage control BS. Ford isn't even worth mention.

Carter, Bush 41, Bush 43, and Obama? Pfft. Please. Proof Americans have a long way to go in the intelligence department. Of course, all of them were lucky to run against duds (until Carter went for his second term), so the choice was between which flavor of s~$% sandwich appealed that day, I guess.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
houstonderek wrote:
Please. Proof Americans have a long way to go in the intelligence department.

It makes me wish that we had a "War against Intelligence". If it goes half as well as the War on Terror or the War on Poverty or the War on Drugs, we'll all be geniuses!(genii?)

The Exchange

Scott Betts wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:
I'd have to say the suggestion that this is so is false. Simply being America's First African American President does not make one Great - it is the fact that you achieved great things that make's one Great.

I can't find whatever article you're referring to, but this article makes a strong case for Obama as a great President.

Quote:
And No, other than proving that you can run for President, he didn't achieve anything worthwhile.

That's simply false, and it's a little weird that anyone would try to claim otherwise. Every President has accomplished something worthwhile. It's pretty hard to run a country full of politicians with pet projects and actually accomplish nothing. You'd have to be a true master politician willing to put a lot of effort into ensuring nothing worthwhile gets done. So it's a pretty safe bet that, when someone tells you the President has accomplished nothing worthwhile in four years, you probably shouldn't take anything they have to say seriously.

yellowdingo, in case you're interested in not being a liar in the future, go ahead and check out this site.

Wow, So he laid a few cobblestones, but a few cobblestones don't make a street. And given 'Executes Osama Bin Laden without trial' dug up a few of the more important Cobblestones that made those Cobblestones a Street - I'd Say "Phuut!" to that pathetic Effort.

JFK Sent Men to the Moon. Obama put the Space Shuttles in a Museum. That's Like Going home with the Football that everyone owns.

And to call me a Liar is to validate the worst of you.

Shadow Lodge Dedicated Voter 2014

TheWhiteknife wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Please. Proof Americans have a long way to go in the intelligence department.
It makes me wish that we had a "War against Intelligence". If it goes half as well as the War on Terror or the War on Poverty or the War on Drugs, we'll all be geniuses!(genii?)

The fact that you think there isn't one shows that its the most successful war yet,


1 person marked this as a favorite.
yellowdingo wrote:
Wow, So he laid a few cobblestones, but a few cobblestones don't make a street.

Meaningless drivel. I gave you an (incomplete) list of his accomplishments. They're right there for you to look at. They are substantial. They have driven real change in the lives of many, many people. You can ignore them. You can call them "cobblestones". I don't care. I showed you something that you claimed didn't exist. You can man up and accept that you were wrong and spewing stupid rhetoric.

Or you can double down on your lies.

Quote:
And given 'Executes Osama Bin Laden without trial' dug up a few of the more important Cobblestones that made those Cobblestones a Street - I'd Say "Phuut!" to that pathetic Effort.

Oh, cool. Prior to the above, your opinion mattered at least a little to me. Now I can comfortably treat you as the hostile liar that you are.

Quote:
JFK Sent Men to the Moon. Obama put the Space Shuttles in a Museum.

The Space Shuttle program was intended to last 15 years. Instead, it lasted for 30. And when it was finally retired, it was George W. Bush who scheduled it for mandatory retirement. Meanwhile, Obama has directed NASA's focus on manned missions to asteroids and Mars, we are actively developing new launch and lift platforms, and we have allowed the private sector to take a shot at space exploration to an unprecedented degree.

You are a liar.

Quote:
And to call me a Liar is to validate the worst of you.

I'm calling you a liar because you tell lies - almost exclusively, in fact! - to further your own agenda (and I don't even know what that agenda is! Do you?). The worst part is that they're not even good lies. They're lies that can be clearly shown to be lies with about 30 seconds worth of Google searching.


Abe Lincoln, obama is not....
Kennedy, obama is not....
and that is all I'll say here.....

Liberty's Edge

Not that I want to get into the middle of a political flame war on the Net (which I hope I'm not), but....

Regardless of whether Obama is a Great President, and regardless of whether he has done anything particularly note-worthy...

I have never seen video footage of him saluting the American Flag or the American Military. I have seen him going out of his way to cater to Muslim* nations. I've seen him liberally giving tax-payer money to bail out major Corporate Monopolies, lay blame on anyone but himself and the government, and take credit for what hard-working Americans have built out of their own sweat and tears.

For this reason, I chose not to vote for Obama.

*Not meant as a racist criticism, but to refer to a collection of nations that follow a religion that professes destruction of "Infadels" (in other words, anyone who doesn't believe as they do. Thus, 9/11 and any number of other terrorist attacks on our country throughout our short history.)

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Milo Stormrunner wrote:

Not that I want to get into the middle of a political flame war on the Net (which I hope I'm not), but....

Regardless of whether Obama is a Great President, and regardless of whether he has done anything particularly note-worthy...

I have never seen video footage of him saluting the American Flag or the American Military. I have seen him going out of his way to cater to Muslim* nations. I've seen him liberally giving tax-payer money to bail out major Corporate Monopolies, lay blame on anyone but himself and the government, and take credit for what hard-working Americans have built out of their own sweat and tears.

For this reason, I chose not to vote for Obama.

*Not meant as a racist criticism, but to refer to a collection of nations that follow a religion that professes destruction of "Infadels" (in other words, anyone who doesn't believe as they do. Thus, 9/11 and any number of other terrorist attacks on our country throughout our short history.)

Wow, just wow.

So you use "footage of folks saluting the American flag" as your criteria of who to vote for? I don't think I remember footage of any President saluting the American flag; at least none come to mind.

I guess giving the orders to take out bin Laden (a Muslim terrorist btw) doesn't count as a patriotic act?

And what you call catering, some of us call diplomacy. When you piss in the face of every country that isn't prodominently Christian; it tends to lower your credibility to the rest of the world. We all have to live on this rock together, no matter which higher powers we choose to worship. So we use a little tool called diplomacy.

And you'd rather put into power the party that thinks that rape victims should have no choice as to whether to carry their pregnancy to term or not, and thinks that women shouldn't be paid the same as men for the same level of work? Because you've never seen Obama salute the flag?

Wow, just wow.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
TheWhiteknife wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Please. Proof Americans have a long way to go in the intelligence department.
It makes me wish that we had a "War against Intelligence". If it goes half as well as the War on Terror or the War on Poverty or the War on Drugs, we'll all be geniuses!(genii?)
The fact that you think there isn't one shows that its the most successful war yet,

Im glad to see that humour isnt dead. sorry that I failed miserably.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Milo Stormrunner wrote:
Not that I want to get into the middle of a political flame war on the Net (which I hope I'm not), but....

Too bad. You stepped in it. Seriously. What you wrote is asking for it. Asking for it like a Republican candidate for Senate saying she was asking for it.

Quote:

Regardless of whether Obama is a Great President, and regardless of whether he has done anything particularly note-worthy...

I have never seen video footage of him saluting the American Flag or the American Military.

Here is video footage of Obama saluting and shaking hands with the American military for two hours straight.

I spent twenty seconds looking this up on Youtube.

Twenty seconds.

Why didn't you?

I'll hazard a guess: You don't actually care whether the President salutes, shakes hands with, drinks beers with, or gives a damn about the military. You just hate him for reasons that you're either consciously or subconsciously ashamed of, and idiot-speak like "I've never seen him salute the military," is just your personal best justification for not voting for him.

Seriously, you actually thought the President of the United States, the Commander in Chief of the United States Armed Forces, hasn't done his fair share of saluting the military he commands or the flag he serves? At no point while you were typing that out did you go, "Hey, wait a second, that doesn't make any sense whatsoever,"?

I mean, holy crap.

Quote:

I have seen him going out of his way to cater to Muslim* nations.

*Not meant as a racist criticism, but to refer to a collection of nations that follow a religion that professes destruction of "Infadels" (in other words, anyone who doesn't believe as they do. Thus, 9/11 and any number of other terrorist attacks on our country throughout our short history.)

First, you don't need to drop an asterisk next to "Muslim nations". There are actual Muslim nations out there - countries that are run by governments that are either controlled by or are state sponsors of religious officials of the Islamic faith. Going out of your way to clarify that you're not being racist means a) you don't realize that actual Muslim nations exist, and b) you're probably racist.

Second, explain how Obama has "catered" to Muslim nations in any way. You said it, now back it up.

Quote:
I've seen him liberally giving tax-payer money to bail out major Corporate Monopolies,

The only bail outs we've seen in recent memory are the bank bailout (TARP) which was signed into law by the previous President, George W. Bush, and the auto industry bail out, which was a) successful as all hell (to the degree where the taxpayers will actually end up making money off the bail out), and b) didn't involve any monopolies whatsoever, unless you are of the (laughably mistaken) belief that General Motors, Chrysler, and Ford are all the same company.

Your reasons are, so far, terrible. You haven't been paying even the barest amount of attention over the last four years. It's sad that you probably still feel you deserve to cast a vote.

Quote:
lay blame on anyone but himself and the government, and take credit for what hard-working Americans have built out of their own sweat and tears.

Examples, please. You say it, you back it up. Or you get laughed out.

Quote:
For this reason, I chose not to vote for Obama.

You're like a case study in why Obama is currently at an 84% chance of winning this election. There are actually people voting against him because they haven't watched him salute the troops enough.

EDIT: Spoke too soon. 85% chance now.


Steelfiredragon wrote:

Abe Lincoln, obama is not....

Kennedy, obama is not....
and that is all I'll say here.....

The most important thing Kennedy ever did was get shot. I'm completely serious. For things he accomplished prior to his death, starting the Peace Corp is probably at the top. Kennedy was a failure as a president for pushing legislation through congress.

When Johnson took over his term, his skill as a legislature combined with the power of Kennedy's memory allowed him to push a lot of stuff through congress, like all of the civil rights legislation of the 60's, pretty much all signed by Johnson. The Equal Opportunity Employment was under Kennedy, but voting rights and civil rights act were under Johnson.

It was also one of the reason Johnson pushed the Vietnam War. It had been part of Kennedy's policies and he had vowed to continue all of Kennedys policies to honor his memory.

Kennedy was not a great president. He might have been a decent or good one, but primarily he is remembered warmly because he was pretty and taken away too soon.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Theodore Roosevelt, along with Alfred Thayer Mahan, was the architect of American imperialism. F++~ him.

The only American president I really like was Abraham Lincoln. Suspension of habeas corpus? Dude, I am a fan of the Reign of Terror, do you think I give a shiznit that they ran Clement Vallandigham up to Canada?

I don't.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

url=http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/336144]Video: Chris Rock proves Obama is 'white president you can trust'[/url]

The Exchange

Scott Betts wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:
Wow, So he laid a few cobblestones, but a few cobblestones don't make a street.

Meaningless drivel. I gave you an (incomplete) list of his accomplishments. They're right there for you to look at. They are substantial. They have driven real change in the lives of many, many people. You can ignore them. You can call them "cobblestones". I don't care. I showed you something that you claimed didn't exist. You can man up and accept that you were wrong and spewing stupid rhetoric.

Or you can double down on your lies.

Quote:
And given 'Executes Osama Bin Laden without trial' dug up a few of the more important Cobblestones that made those Cobblestones a Street - I'd Say "Phuut!" to that pathetic Effort.

Oh, cool. Prior to the above, your opinion mattered at least a little to me. Now I can comfortably treat you as the hostile liar that you are.

Quote:
JFK Sent Men to the Moon. Obama put the Space Shuttles in a Museum.

The Space Shuttle program was intended to last 15 years. Instead, it lasted for 30. And when it was finally retired, it was George W. Bush who scheduled it for mandatory retirement. Meanwhile, Obama has directed NASA's focus on manned missions to asteroids and Mars, we are actively developing new launch and lift platforms, and we have allowed the private sector to take a shot at space exploration to an unprecedented degree.

You are a liar.

Quote:
And to call me a Liar is to validate the worst of you.
I'm calling you a liar because you tell lies - almost exclusively, in fact! - to further your own agenda (and I don't even know what that agenda is! Do you?). The worst part is that they're not even good lies. They're lies that can be clearly shown to be lies with about 30 seconds worth of Google searching.

Are you suggesting That I lied about Obama executing without Trial the World's Most Despised Terrorist? Osama needed to be forced into a Dock in a court room so that he would understand even he is accountable for his crimes and Obama needed to be 100% loyal to the Process of Law. Instead there was neither. As I said, Calling me a Liar undermines you. And the things Obama Achieved made a difference for a minority of Americans. The Crimes he committed made things harder for all of them.

It would have been better if Obama had left the last Space Shuttle in Space- Forever. If there Is life out there I would like to think that long after we are gone - they would Find a Space Shuttle docked at a Space Station with an Archive of who we were.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
yellowdingo wrote:
Are you suggesting That I lied about Obama executing without Trial the World's Most Despised Terrorist? Osama needed to be forced into a Dock in a court room so that he would understand even he is accountable for his crimes and Obama needed to be 100% loyal to the Process of Law. Instead there was neither. As I said, Calling me a Liar undermines you. And the things Obama Achieved made a difference for a minority of Americans. The Crimes he committed made things harder for all of them.

Actually in regards to Bin Laden frankly even if they had caught him I don't see how they could have even come anywhere close to putting him on a normal trial.


Helaman wrote:


Video: Chris Rock proves Obama is 'white president you can trust'

Hee hee!


yellowdingo wrote:
Are you suggesting That I lied about Obama executing without Trial the World's Most Despised Terrorist?

Nope! You actually told the truth there! That's why I didn't call you a liar for saying it.

Quote:
Osama needed to be forced into a Dock in a court room so that he would understand even he is accountable for his crimes and Obama needed to be 100% loyal to the Process of Law.

No.

Quote:
Instead there was neither. As I said, Calling me a Liar undermines you. And the things Obama Achieved made a difference for a minority of Americans. The Crimes he committed made things harder for all of them.

Also no.

Quote:
It would have been better if Obama had left the last Space Shuttle in Space- Forever. If there Is life out there I would like to think that long after we are gone - they would Find a Space Shuttle docked at a Space Station with an Archive of who we were.

Also super no, this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard for like eight different reasons.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
yellowdingo wrote:
And given 'Executes Osama Bin Laden

When you are at war with an enemy general, you're not required to hold a trial if you get a chance to take him down. Especially a murdering bastard who made his war on civillians.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
yellowdingo wrote:
It would have been better if Obama had left the last Space Shuttle in Space- Forever. If there Is life out there I would like to think that long after we are gone - they would Find a Space Shuttle docked at a Space Station with an Archive of who we were.

Further proof that the average Sci Fi fanboy is a near total ignorant idiot when it comes to science.

The Shuttle has a maximum orbit range of 300+ miles. Orbital decay at that height is less than ten years during a period of Solar Max as spectacularly shown by the fall of Skylab. Furthermore things simply left in orbit degrade into new sources of space junk as micrometorite hits take their toll. An abandoned shuttle would only become a source of space junk to threathen other working orbital installations.

That's why when it's decided that the International Space Station has served it's purpose, it will be de-orbited in a controlled manner to crash in that area of the Pacific Ocean, which has been designated as a satellite "graveyard".

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Irontruth wrote:
Steelfiredragon wrote:

Abe Lincoln, obama is not....

Kennedy, obama is not....
and that is all I'll say here.....

The most important thing Kennedy ever did was get shot. I'm completely serious. For things he accomplished prior to his death, starting the Peace Corp is probably at the top. Kennedy was a failure as a president for pushing legislation through congress.

When Johnson took over his term, his skill as a legislature combined with the power of Kennedy's memory allowed him to push a lot of stuff through congress, like all of the civil rights legislation of the 60's, pretty much all signed by Johnson. The Equal Opportunity Employment was under Kennedy, but voting rights and civil rights act were under Johnson.

It was also one of the reason Johnson pushed the Vietnam War. It had been part of Kennedy's policies and he had vowed to continue all of Kennedys policies to honor his memory.

Kennedy was not a great president. He might have been a decent or good one, but primarily he is remembered warmly because he was pretty and taken away too soon.

You really should sometime make a serious study of the Cuban Missle Crisis. Kennedy negotiated a very difficult balance act between the Soviets and the American Hawks when the world was THAT close to a Third World War. Khrushchev so respected him as an enemy, that he wept when he heard that the President had been assassinated.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

You mean how Kennedy nearly pushed us into nuclear war, both intentionally and unintentionally several times? Yes, that must surely be the mark of a great president. He offered Khrushchev terms, but they often did so in clunky and confusing manners. There was also an incident in the final moments where signaling depth charges were used on a submarine near the blockade, the sub had orders to fire its nuclear tipped torpedo if fired upon, which would have sparked a war. It required three soviet officers on board to agree to fire and one of them opposed it.

If that officer hadn't been cool-headed, no one would consider the Cuban missile crisis to be an averted disaster.


Good god, obviously not.


Yes. Obama is the greatest president in history.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Helaman wrote:


Video: Chris Rock proves Obama is 'white president you can trust'
Hee hee!

Good god, Chris Rock is hurtling in the Bill Cosby direction.


Obama isn't probably the best president ever, he isn't probably the worst either. If he gets reelected, the country isn't going to implode. If he gets voted out, it won't implode either.

I just hope that people don't have so much of their emotional well-being invested into the election that however it turns out in the weeks that follow (and yeah, it probably isn't going to be over Tuesday night), those people are emotionally a train-wreck. Romney won't kick in your door and force your mom/sister/wife/friend to carry his mormon space-children to full gestation. Obama isn't going to introduce sharia law and force your children to start praying to allah.

4 years might seem like a long time, but as you get older, you realize that it isn't really. And there are competing forces. The great thing about the US government is it was intentionally designed to be hard to do stuff, unless there was overwhelming support. So don't worry too much. Go on and vote, but realize that life will go on, and your vote is but a small part of the greater whole.


Milo Stormrunner wrote:

Not that I want to get into the middle of a political flame war on the Net (which I hope I'm not), but....

Regardless of whether Obama is a Great President, and regardless of whether he has done anything particularly note-worthy...

I have never seen video footage of him saluting the American Flag or the American Military. I have seen him going out of his way to cater to Muslim* nations. I've seen him liberally giving tax-payer money to bail out major Corporate Monopolies, lay blame on anyone but himself and the government, and take credit for what hard-working Americans have built out of their own sweat and tears.

For this reason, I chose not to vote for Obama.

*Not meant as a racist criticism, but to refer to a collection of nations that follow a religion that professes destruction of "Infadels" (in other words, anyone who doesn't believe as they do. Thus, 9/11 and any number of other terrorist attacks on our country throughout our short history.)

*coughs into elbow*

The man won a Nobel Peace Prize for diplomacy. And, considering the forums we're on, I'd assume we all know what diplomacy means. Diplomacy includes trying to cooperate with a region that kinda got shafted (just like everyone else who wasn't America or Western Europe) during Imperialism days. I'm not excusing what they're doing- I have a 'healthy' amount of hate for a lot of them. But it's hardly undecipherable why they're in the situation they're in.

I doubt nationalism is the salve to that particular problem.

Also, terrorism. It's rich for our American society (assuming this is an American-centric thread due to election topic) to hold so much loathing for a similarly harsh, misogynistic and intolerant religion. There are plenty of awesome people here and in theory we're a secular government-

No, no we're really not.

I'd love to be President but, well, it's just not that easy to imagine an agnostic atheist getting anywhere with that, is it? In the first bill to do anything to protect people of other orientations or gender identities from violent hate crimes (which Obama signed into law), there was an uproar because religious persons though it would infringe their 'freedom of expression'. Now, I'm an artist. I get a lot of things as media for that. But hate crimes? That goes a bit far.

We could say this country deals with its prejudices a lot better. It does. But my girlfriend is still terrified as passing as herself for fear of what her fellow citizens in this great nation will do to her. She fights every day to not cave in to the country's warped views and off herself before some psycho even gets the chance.

Yes, I wish the Middle East would deal with its problems on some other planet. But if we're going to blame them for these issues of turning religion violent-

America had better look a mirror first.


Uhm this is silly.
NO President is going to qualify for "greatest" until long after their decisions have been scrutinized and debated by scholars and historians.

Kennedy is only now getting that kind of attention without the lense of emotion screwing up the analysis. Reagan and Clinton won't get that type of attention for years yet, since their decisions are still being played out. It'll take another 20 years to identify whether their decisions were enough to put them in Lincoln, Jefferson, Washington levels. And those guys were confronted with much less complex issues.


Alright I now officially apologize and want to give every Republican on the internet a hug.
Seriously.
Doesn't mean I'm going to change who I (would) vote for-

But sorry, all the same.


zagnabbit wrote:

Uhm this is silly.

NO President is going to qualify for "greatest" until long after their decisions have been scrutinized and debated by scholars and historians.

Kennedy is only now getting that kind of attention without the lense of emotion screwing up the analysis. Reagan and Clinton won't get that type of attention for years yet, since their decisions are still being played out. It'll take another 20 years to identify whether their decisions were enough to put them in Lincoln, Jefferson, Washington levels. And those guys were confronted with much less complex issues.

A fair, reasoned point that I mostly agree with.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
pres man wrote:
I just hope that people don't have so much of their emotional well-being invested into the election that however it turns out in the weeks that follow (and yeah, it probably isn't going to be over Tuesday night), those people are emotionally a train-wreck. Romney won't kick in your door and force your mom/sister/wife/friend to carry his mormon space-children to full gestation. Obama isn't going to introduce sharia law and force your children to start praying to allah.

Firearms purchases went to record numbers among the Angry White Male quotient of the population when Obama was first elected. I don't think that they've gotten any less angry.


yellowdingo wrote:
Scott Betts wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:
Wow, So he laid a few cobblestones, but a few cobblestones don't make a street.

Meaningless drivel. I gave you an (incomplete) list of his accomplishments. They're right there for you to look at. They are substantial. They have driven real change in the lives of many, many people. You can ignore them. You can call them "cobblestones". I don't care. I showed you something that you claimed didn't exist. You can man up and accept that you were wrong and spewing stupid rhetoric.

Or you can double down on your lies.

Quote:
And given 'Executes Osama Bin Laden without trial' dug up a few of the more important Cobblestones that made those Cobblestones a Street - I'd Say "Phuut!" to that pathetic Effort.

Oh, cool. Prior to the above, your opinion mattered at least a little to me. Now I can comfortably treat you as the hostile liar that you are.

Quote:
JFK Sent Men to the Moon. Obama put the Space Shuttles in a Museum.

The Space Shuttle program was intended to last 15 years. Instead, it lasted for 30. And when it was finally retired, it was George W. Bush who scheduled it for mandatory retirement. Meanwhile, Obama has directed NASA's focus on manned missions to asteroids and Mars, we are actively developing new launch and lift platforms, and we have allowed the private sector to take a shot at space exploration to an unprecedented degree.

You are a liar.

Quote:
And to call me a Liar is to validate the worst of you.
I'm calling you a liar because you tell lies - almost exclusively, in fact! - to further your own agenda (and I don't even know what that agenda is! Do you?). The worst part is that they're not even good lies. They're lies that can be clearly shown to be lies with about 30 seconds worth of Google searching.
Are you suggesting That I lied about Obama executing without Trial the World's Most Despised Terrorist? Osama needed to be forced into a Dock in a court room so that he would...

I'm willing to forgive a single very popular, fairly justified act of war from a president who's trying to actually cooperate with our neighbors instead of just badmouthing them like the rich big-shot kid on the playground.

Yes, following the law is good. I can't argue if anyone wants to push that charge on Obama. But I don't think enough people will, and he's a world leader. Sometimes these guys need to make decisions that might come back to bite them. However, unlike a lot of decisions made through due process, he's one of the only people who could actually get hurt.

Winning a Noble Peace Prize from the international community, winning us more respect as a rational nation (still rather undeserved...), is making things harder for Americans?

Either way, this... uhm... debate has been very enjoyable, thank you yellowdingo.


LazarX wrote:
pres man wrote:
I just hope that people don't have so much of their emotional well-being invested into the election that however it turns out in the weeks that follow (and yeah, it probably isn't going to be over Tuesday night), those people are emotionally a train-wreck. Romney won't kick in your door and force your mom/sister/wife/friend to carry his mormon space-children to full gestation. Obama isn't going to introduce sharia law and force your children to start praying to allah.
Firearms purchases went to record numbers among the Angry White Male quotient of the population when Obama was first elected. I don't think that they've gotten any less angry.

I'm not sure what the point of your comment is, in response to mine. I was suggesting that behavior is not really rational. Obama isn't going to take away people's guns. Romney isn't going to legalize private ownership of nuclear weapons.


pres man wrote:

Obama isn't probably the best president ever, he isn't probably the worst either. If he gets reelected, the country isn't going to implode. If he gets voted out, it won't implode either.

I just hope that people don't have so much of their emotional well-being invested into the election that however it turns out in the weeks that follow (and yeah, it probably isn't going to be over Tuesday night), those people are emotionally a train-wreck. Romney won't kick in your door and force your mom/sister/wife/friend to carry his mormon space-children to full gestation. Obama isn't going to introduce sharia law and force your children to start praying to allah.

4 years might seem like a long time, but as you get older, you realize that it isn't really. And there are competing forces. The great thing about the US government is it was intentionally designed to be hard to do stuff, unless there was overwhelming support. So don't worry too much. Go on and vote, but realize that life will go on, and your vote is but a small part of the greater whole.

A nice point, I guess. This is the first election I've really followed- too young to care before now.

But if I want to maybe marry my girlfriend sometime in the future?
If I want her and people like her to not be denied their vote?
If I approve of scientific research that could help people like her?
If I don't want to get in a war for stupid nationalistic reasons?
If I want to go to college, get a doctorate, and yet will have no money from my parents to help with this endeavor?

Yeah, I'm kinda emotionally involved in this election.


Yucale wrote:
But if I want to maybe marry my girlfriend sometime in the future?

Both candidates have stated that they think it is something that should be decided by the states. So you will have to deal with this no matter who is elected. Some states may current support your marriage choice, I would seek to have your marriage occur in these states.

Yucale wrote:
If I want her and people like her to not be denied their vote?

I have no idea what this has to do with either candidate. Don't give into fear mongering. I just saw I report that studies in states that have had voter identification laws for some time have shown that fears of voter fraud are overblown, but so are fear of voter suppression. It is exactly this kind of "the other guy is going to destroy everything" thinking that I would caution people to avoid.

Yucale wrote:
If I approve of scientific research that could help people like her?

Again, I have no idea what this has to do with either candidate.

Yucale wrote:
If I don't want to get in a war for stupid nationalistic reasons?

And I don't think that has happened. We go to war for national interests. Now not everyone agrees on those interests but I can't seriously imagine case where we go to war for "nationalistic" reasons, whatever those are.

Yucale wrote:
If I want to go to college, get a doctorate, and yet will have no money from my parents to help with this endeavor?

Would you want to go college but get so overloaded with debt that it was impossible for you to pay it off AND you couldn't get rid of it by claiming bankruptcy? If you are talking about pell grants over student loans, then consider while this helps poor students, it doesn't control the cost of education, so that those students, that my have help from their parents (and those don't qualify for pell grants), may actually be pushed down out of the middle class due to overwhelming debt.

Frankly, I'd love to see a serious look at how to make higher education more affordable, unfortunately neither candidate is truly offering anything like that.

Anyway, I am not suggestion you shouldn't care. You should and you should vote. But realize that the moon isn't falling if your preferred candidate doesn't win.


Yucale wrote:


If I don't want to get in a war for stupid nationalistic reasons?

War is an extension of Politics. Politics are an extension of economics. Every war in history was fought for an Economic reason. The other reasons touted by the media/church/kings whoever, is just dribble for the sheeple.

At least that's how it was taught to me by my macro economics professor.

Shadow Lodge

This thread so far:

Person A: "Here are some specific examples of things Obama accomplished that make him a good president..."

Person B: "Here is some rhetoric about cobblestones that counters your examples."

Me: "?!?!?!??"


pres man wrote:
Yucale wrote:
But if I want to maybe marry my girlfriend sometime in the future?
Both candidates have stated that they think it is something that should be decided by the states. So you will have to deal with this no matter who is elected. Some states may current support your marriage choice, I would seek to have your marriage occur in these states.

Romney may have said that, he's said an awful lot of things. He's also supported a constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman.

When he's said both things, don't be quick to assume he's lying in your favor.


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Zeetle Wyrp wrote:
Yucale wrote:


If I don't want to get in a war for stupid nationalistic reasons?

War is an extension of Politics. Politics are an extension of economics. Every war in history was fought for an Economic reason. The other reasons touted by the media/church/kings whoever, is just dribble for the sheeple.

At least that's how it was taught to me by my macro economics professor.

Hmmm. The economics professor thinks everything is about economics? Not a surprise.

Wars have also been fought for domestic political reasons like raising nationalistic fervor and rallying the populace behind the leader. Probably dozens of other reasons as well.


thejeff wrote:
pres man wrote:
Yucale wrote:
But if I want to maybe marry my girlfriend sometime in the future?
Both candidates have stated that they think it is something that should be decided by the states. So you will have to deal with this no matter who is elected. Some states may current support your marriage choice, I would seek to have your marriage occur in these states.

Romney may have said that, he's said an awful lot of things. He's also supported a constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman.

When he's said both things, don't be quick to assume he's lying in your favor.

And Obama said that he thought marriage should be between a man and a woman, but then said his view has "evolved" and now supports same sex marriage but still thinks it is a state issue. Don't be so quick to assume there isn't lying going on that side either.


pres man wrote:
thejeff wrote:
pres man wrote:
Yucale wrote:
But if I want to maybe marry my girlfriend sometime in the future?
Both candidates have stated that they think it is something that should be decided by the states. So you will have to deal with this no matter who is elected. Some states may current support your marriage choice, I would seek to have your marriage occur in these states.

Romney may have said that, he's said an awful lot of things. He's also supported a constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman.

When he's said both things, don't be quick to assume he's lying in your favor.

And Obama said that he thought marriage should be between a man and a woman, but then said his view has "evolved" and now supports same sex marriage but still thinks it is a state issue. Don't be so quick to assume there isn't lying going on that side either.

Obama did say he thought that, but he's never taken or even proposed action on it. In fact, by instructing the Justice Department not to defend DOMA in court, he's done the opposite.


I don't trouble myself over the opinion of one questionably sane Australian when it comes to my nation's elected officials.

As with rock bands, greatness is really something you can only be certain of once it's all over. In the next presidential term, either guy could successfully repel an extra-planetary invasion and snag the title.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

LazarX wrote:
Firearms purchases went to record numbers among the Angry White Male quotient of the population when Obama was first elected. I don't think that they've gotten any less angry.

And just like when Obama was first elected, most of those Angry White Males aren't capable of cogently explaining (or even really understanding) exactly what they're mad about.

For some people the world must be an awfully scary place.

Cling away, people.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Evil Lincoln wrote:
I don't trouble myself over the opinion of one questionably sane Australian when it comes to my nation's elected officials.

Sadly, Rupert Murdoch does care and has a disproportionate voice to influence...

Oh, you meant dingo.

Nevermind.


I have a family full of people that believed Obama was gonna take our guns. When I asked what made them think that they told me I wasn't paying attention. I told them they just bought a bridge in New York. Opportunistic outsiders will always find a way to profit off of people's fears.
The gun companies did quite well after that election.

I just read an article in Playboy that fatalities the Religious Right's recent history of attempting to legislate access to birth control. It's entirely possible that if Romney wins people will start stockpiling condoms and birthcontrol pills because the wing nuts believe that stopping procreation is tantamount to abortion.

[insert subliminal crazy idea] There are Republicans that plan to outlaw sex for fun [\insert subliminal crazy idea].

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

zagnabbit wrote:
The gun companies did quite well after that election.

The best part is how people got their knickers in a twist because Obama said they were bitterly clinging to their guns...and then, when he won the election, they went out and bought more guns.

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