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That is a pretty big difference, and that is also very different from:
which is what I was responding to. In fact, you did say you would never cast cure spells.I don't even give them that. If they don't provide their own healing wand, they get my stabilize cantrip. If I do a group-hug channel after the fight, I'll be courteous enough to include them in the radius. But that's it.
Context is a thing. See how my first sentence there says "I don't even give them that"? What does "that" refer to?
It refers to the thing I was replying to (which you quoted the first time, but not this last time), which was someone talking about using their spells "until they run out" specifically in the context of replacing the functionality of the wand they didn't bring.
"Stabilize cantrip, participate in party channel healing, but that's it" does not at all say the same thing as "not use up all my spells to make up for lack of a wand."
It does when the whole statement was made in the context of "what do I do in place of wand usage". In place of wand usage (which is always patching up after fights), they'll get stabilize and be included in channels, but that's all they get in place of wand usage.
That which happens in combat has nothing to do with wand usage and is therefore outside the scope of what I said I'd do in place of wand usage.
Context is a thing. The meaning of words depends on their context. If I say "I am not a gorilla", it would be a true statement that I said the words "I am a gorilla". But the presence of the word "not" in that particular place in the sentence means that it would be false to claim that I made the statement "I am a gorilla" even though I said those words in that order.
Next time read thoroughly with an eye for comprehension before you start attacking people, instead of just skimming through and making assumptions. Thank you.
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Woah! I'm not attacking. I'm just responding to what you said. Take a look back at it; I think, if you read, you'll see that what you said is different from what you meant.
Look, yes, context is a thing. I got that. That's your first statement.
The second statement, however, is very clear. Isn't it possible that what you wrote isn't exactly what you meant to write? What you said was very clear; that's it is a pretty bald statement. And, the context of "that's it" was that you only do the stabilize cantrip and group chanelling. You started by saying you won't even use up all your cure spells. You then went above and beyond saying you don't use up all your cure spells, and saying you would only do a small number of things. That's what you said. I understand now that that's not what you meant to say, but that is what you said. I was not misquoting you at all (as would be the case with your gorilla example).
It's not an attack. It's just me responding to what's there on the page. Context is a real thing, yes, but context alone doesn't provide for mindreading when you write something very direct that is at odds from what you meant to write. Isn't it possible that you weren't clear, rather than that I am not reading?
The only attack I'm seeing here is your last statement.
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It makes sense and is only prudent to provide for your own healing if you can afford to. On the other hand, if you are playing modules with a group that has a good sense of the key idiosyncrasies amongst their table, then speaking on it beforehand and acknowledging the situation is an easy way to diffuse the situation (If it even comes up).
As a cleric of Sarenrae, I have little to no issue expending spells, orisons, or wand charges to someone I know will work with me in concert to work towards the mutual goal. However, I will almost steadfastly refuse anyone who prefers to as a petulant child because they got a little boo-boo and the healer is busier with the dying members of the party...
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Yeah, you should always be strategic with your healing, or anything else. Don't cast Cure Moderate Wounds on somebody who has 4hp of damage, for example, even if that's the only healing spell you have left. (If you have that spell, chances are that the wounded person isn't first level, so 4hp isn't too crippling of an in jury anyway.)
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My wizard, with her first two PP, actually bought a Wand of Mage Armor. I thought overall that would be a better investment, given that crappy AC is something that happens to wizards, and it would make me more flexible and useful. (And, I have willingly used it on other folks who could benefit from it.)
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I'm starting a Magus at level 6 soon, and she bought wands of Mage Armor, Shield, Longstrider, Infernal Healing, and Magic Missile (plus potion of Remove Blindness and oil of Daylight), all with PP.
This is a little more doable when you have a binder full of characters, so that one freak accident doesn't keep you from playing in the high level games next week.
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I see the "YOU MUST PROVIDE YOUR OWN HEALING" group is still going strong...
By that 'reasoning' the Healer MUST provide their own Meat Shield, Trap Smith, Talking Head, Arcane Magic, and Tracking.
Just watch, the same people saying provide your own healing are going to argue that it isn't the same...
I understand that not all Clerics are healers... I personally have a Cleric of Zon-Kuthon...
This is a co-operative game.
The fact is that there is a growing sentiment of YOU MUST plan like you are a party of ONE. That you should hoard YOUR resources/spells/abilities and not work as a team.
I am not against players buying things they can't use to share the burden, but that should be a matter of edicate not edict.
It is helpful to the team, it lifts some of the strain on the healer's limited resources. (Or helps cover for the lack of a healer)
And it never helps when someone posts without actually reading what they are posting in response to, just like I am now.
We are NOT saying you have to buy (for a whole 2 PP!) a wand of cure light wounds, you can always just say "No.", but you will have to live with the consequences if you don't.
People get tired of moochers. You don't have your own wand, don't expect those that do to continue to buy their consumable resources on your ass, since you don't consider it worth burning any resources on, yourself. Why should I use my resources on you when you don't use your own?
Now, if you never expect to take any damage, ever, then go ahead and don't plan on any resources for healing. Just don't expect those resources you don't think you will need to be available if it turns out you do need them, after all.
There are 11 core classes, and 10 base classes available for PCs. Only one of those 21 classes, IIRC, gets the ability to spontaneously convert any (non-Domain) spell slot into a healing spell. And there are plenty of builds for that class that do not get that ability, either.
So, for in-combat healing, other than the couple of classes that can channel energy, the only healing that might be available would be the rare cure spell that is memorized, or a magic item providing healing, like first aid gloves, or, even, that wand of cure light wounds.
If you don't have your own, there might not be resources in the party to support much healing. After all, why should anyone get a wand of CLW?
Note: I have played a game where my Magus, using UMD on his own wand of CLW, was the entire healing resource for the whole party. I was lucky, and got 7 charges to work before I rolled the 1 on UMD. We failed the scenario, by the way, since we were in bad shape, once my wand stopped working. No other wands, no IH, maybe a potion or two, but it made for a less then totally fun experience, and it also made me, as the only player with any sort of healing resource, feel very much abused...
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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I'm starting a Magus at level 6 soon, and she bought wands of Mage Armor, Shield, Longstrider, Infernal Healing, and Magic Missile (plus potion of Remove Blindness and oil of Daylight), all with PP.I would strongly consider adding a potion of gaseous form for when you get grappled by something horrendous.
She's got a +15 Escape Artist, and I'll eventually pick up a corset of the vishkanya for another +5 when I need it.
How do the rules work in regards to getting an item out and using it (drinking) while being grappled? If it’s something that horrendous, would you even be able to do so?
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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How do the rules work in regards to getting an item out and using it (drinking) while being grappled? If it’s something that horrendous, would you even be able to do so?
While grappled, you still have use of one hand. So you can attack with one-handed weapons, cast spells with somatic and material components, and so on. And since the grappler also has the grappled condition, he can't make attacks of opportunity against you when you pull out and drink a potion.
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I'm starting a Magus at level 6 soon, and she bought wands of Mage Armor, Shield, Longstrider, Infernal Healing, and Magic Missile (plus potion of Remove Blindness and oil of Daylight), all with PP.
Why magic missile? Wouldn't a magus be better off swinging a sword than poking someone for 1d4+1 damage?
How do the rules work in regards to getting an item out and using it (drinking) while being grappled? If it’s something that horrendous, would you even be able to do so?While grappled, you still have use of one hand. So you can attack with one-handed weapons, cast spells with somatic and material components, and so on. And since the grappler also has the grappled condition, he can't make attacks of opportunity against you when you pull out and drink a potion.
Ok, thanks.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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I'm starting a Magus at level 6 soon, and she bought wands of Mage Armor, Shield, Longstrider, Infernal Healing, and Magic Missile (plus potion of Remove Blindness and oil of Daylight), all with PP.Why magic missile? Wouldn't a magus be better off swinging a sword than poking someone for 1d4+1 damage?
True, but for those times I can't get into melee, or swinging a sword is otherwise out of the question, a ranged option is nice.
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@Tempest_Knight:
I frequently play with groups where they work on cooperate: Everyone has an area where they try to excel, but they also do what they can to help out the party.
IMO, one of the things you can do to helpo out the party is make sure that you bring your own contribution, one way or another, to the party healing fund. That is cooperation.
Standing around, no healing items of your own, waiting while the sole person in the party uses his own healing items on you is not, in any fashion, what I would consider cooperation.
And, IMO, anyone who believes that their PC will never take any hit point damage, ever, is living in a fool's paradise.
Evasion only helps if you don't roll a 1. While Improved Evasion helps even in the case of a 1, you will still take some damage if you fail the save.
Uncanny Dodge may improve your flat-footed AC, but the classes that get it usually also are not the ones noted for being tanks.
And, as long as you are visible, and in higher tiers, many opponents have some way of seeing the invisible, you are at risk of being the target of some sort of ranged attack, whether it is a thrown dagger, a monster summoned behind you, an arrow, a ranged spell that targets you with no save, or what, you can and will take damage at some point, unless you are lucky.
Now, if you always only play this PC with the "perfect" party or not, some time, you may find that your "perfect" party... isn't.
And, at that point, if your allies with CLW wands are all down to a few charges, and haven't gotten around to buying their next wand or what, you might not have enough healing to get the party back up to full strength.
Wands run out of charges. My Magus is on his second wand of Magic Missile, despite being melee focused. Sometimes, it is a bad idea to run out there and go all melee. Then you might want to stand back and just chip away at your opponent's hit points while they are traveling to you...
TL;DR: Pathfinder Society members should live by the Boy Scout motto: Be Prepared. Carrying a wand of CLW or IH is part of being prepared, IMO.
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By that 'reasoning' the Healer MUST provide their own Meat Shield, Trap Smith, Talking Head, Arcane Magic, and Tracking.
...
It is helpful to the team, it lifts some of the strain on the healer's limited resources. (Or helps cover for the lack of a healer)
I believe the issue here is the word healer. ALOT of clerics/oracles are not healers. That is not how they built their class. Just cause they used the Cleric/Oracle chassis for character creation does not mean they are responsible for healing you. I completely agree with "Thomas, the Tiefling Hero" and his stance. Most of the Cleric/Oracles I play are not focused on healing. They are no more a healer than your Fighter is. Just cause they have those spells available to them does not mean its the best use of those resources. Everyone can pick up the UMD trait and use a wand.
Now if I build a super channeler (healer), or a character that focuses on healing with FCB, Feats, Items, ect then YES! I will be the healer. During combat I will be channeling and letting my group go super aggressive and letting them take equal trades that can end the combat faster.
I think the terminology is key here.
We have had posts in this tread where it is stated that, if you don't bring your own healing 'I' won't heal you and only spend 0-level spells on you.
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I haven't seen anyone blowing through 10+ charges on a wand of Magic Weapon or Protection from Evil
I'm pretty liberal with my wands of protection from evil. I can't afford to use them on everybody all the time but I'll certainly use them as appropriate. And I've seen players use a LOT of charges from their wand of bless.
Part of the issue is that more experienced players (especially those who GM a lot) get less attached to characters. If you don't save for a raise dead then you might as well spend the PP on wands, scrolls, etc.
I'm pretty liberal with my wands of protection from evil. I can't afford to use them on everybody all the time but I'll certainly use them as appropriate. And I've seen players use a LOT of charges from their wand of bless.
One of my characters has a wand of bless, she uses it every combat. This is about 3 charges per scenario. This should get her to level 5 or 6 at which point she can just mem the spell cause she will have higher level spells for effects.
Part of the issue is that more experienced players (especially those who GM a lot) get less attached to characters. If you don't save for a raise dead then you might as well spend the PP on wands, scrolls, etc.
I highlighted the key word here. Its not that they get less attached, its that they realize that 2pp spent on a Potion of Gaseous Form or Oil of Daylight can stop the death. 2pp to stop a death is much much cheaper than the 16 to 20 pp for the rez.
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I think my bard may need to pick up that wand of vanish now.even works to get someone who is "down" in combat out... Tripped? here, let me vanish you and you can stand up again (without an AOO).
But it doesn't get you out of the jaws of a creature. If only there was a chronicle out there with a partially charged wand of freedom of movement..
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Got something in mind Kyle? :)Wand of freedom of movement (4 charges; 1,680 gp, limit 1)
you could even say the spell gives you a "new leash on life"...
From now on I'll have to start all my "jobs" by tieing a leather strip onto each of my traveling companions... hey, this is getting more and more like my "day job"!
