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RPG Superstar 2015

Survey: Do the rules serve the setting or does the setting serve the rules.


Gamer Talk

301 to 308 of 308 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | next > last >>
Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

thejeff wrote:
You know, I can't buy that trick. It's too easy a hack around the "Grant Wish" clause. If it was that easy, the efreet would have figured it out long ago. They'd be kidnapping wimpy humans and forcing them to wish for them full time. No need to wait for some dangerous adventurer to figure it out.

That's a pretty cool idea. Someone should write an adventure about that.

Star Voter 2013

thejeff wrote:
Tels wrote:

Sure, that's a consequence of doing such a thing. Specifically, Ashiel's Monk in the Monk thread was to work out a deal in such a way that if the Efreet granted his wishes, he would then make wishes that would benefit the Efreet too.

So Efreet bumps all of the Monk's ability scores. Then, in turn, the Monk makes wishes that bumps the Wish granters ability scores.

Now both the Efreet and the Monk have increased ability scores. Everyone is happy. Except the enemies of the Efreet and Monk.

Such an Efreet would likely return to his plane and tell all of his Efreet friends about this Monk that is willing to use the Efreets wishes for to the Efreets personal gain. Suddenly all the friends of the Efreet are seeking out this Monk wishing to be friends with him for their own personal gain.

You know, I can't buy that trick. It's too easy a hack around the "Grant Wish" clause. If it was that easy, the efreet would have figured it out long ago. They'd be kidnapping wimpy humans and forcing them to wish for them full time. No need to wait for some dangerous adventurer to figure it out.

My problem is, I can't figure out why such kidnappings don't happen. Something as simple as 'I wish you were no longer a genie but kept all of your powers' would mean the Efreet (who is no longer a genie) could now grant his own wishes.

I heard there was more on Wish mechanics in Legacy of Fire, but as I'm currently a player in that campaign, I refuse to read it and spoil the story for myself.


I think that attempting to gauge the sense of the rules in a vacuum is never going to yield an acceptable result, especially when dealing with something as game breaking as 'Wish'.

RAW there has to be something preventing the Efreet from entering into such a bargain since otherwise there'd be no game. There'd just be Efreet-Central where you all start as serfs in some Efreets mad vision of the universe.

There is no mention of this mechanic anywhere...but it must exist because they haven't done this already.

*shrug*

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Maybe they have. Maybe in some unwritten adventure, adventurers shut them down and established the threat of destruction against them if they ever attempted such another incursion. I'd like to see it TBH, I think it could be fun.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Tels wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Tels wrote:

Sure, that's a consequence of doing such a thing. Specifically, Ashiel's Monk in the Monk thread was to work out a deal in such a way that if the Efreet granted his wishes, he would then make wishes that would benefit the Efreet too.

So Efreet bumps all of the Monk's ability scores. Then, in turn, the Monk makes wishes that bumps the Wish granters ability scores.

Now both the Efreet and the Monk have increased ability scores. Everyone is happy. Except the enemies of the Efreet and Monk.

Such an Efreet would likely return to his plane and tell all of his Efreet friends about this Monk that is willing to use the Efreets wishes for to the Efreets personal gain. Suddenly all the friends of the Efreet are seeking out this Monk wishing to be friends with him for their own personal gain.

You know, I can't buy that trick. It's too easy a hack around the "Grant Wish" clause. If it was that easy, the efreet would have figured it out long ago. They'd be kidnapping wimpy humans and forcing them to wish for them full time. No need to wait for some dangerous adventurer to figure it out.

My problem is, I can't figure out why such kidnappings don't happen. Something as simple as 'I wish you were no longer a genie but kept all of your powers' would mean the Efreet (who is no longer a genie) could now grant his own wishes.

I heard there was more on Wish mechanics in Legacy of Fire, but as I'm currently a player in that campaign, I refuse to read it and spoil the story for myself.

Well, 'I wish you were no longer a genie but kept all of your powers' is probably beyond the current Wish's ability. Things like polymorph we can assume don't fool the Wish granting mechanic. It knows you're really a genie, even if the granter doesn't.

Similarly, the magic is subtle enough to not grant wishes made by someone else on the genie's behalf. It just doesn't work.

Star Voter 2013

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Binding Outsiders - PRD

The above link is from Ultimate Magic.

Wizards, Sorcerers, and Summoners wrote:

The arcane method for binding insiders is more difficult. First, a binder must create a trap, a magic circle (see Magic Circle Against Evil for an example of how this works) focused inward. Typically the circle is outlined in a substance that is anathema to the outsider he wishes to summon. He must protect this circle against any sort of disruption, for even the smallest variation in its energies opens the circle and allows the escape of the creature he has summoned. It is for this reason that most binders' lairs are in high towers or deep dungeons, far from wind or pests.

When an arcane caster speaks the words of the planar binding spell, the outsider can resist via a Will saving throw, with no aid from its spell resistance. If it fails the save, the magic circle draws it inexorably into the trap. Once there, the outsider can pit its spell resistance as a check against the caster's level, attempt to flee via dimensional travel, or attempt to overcome the spell by imposing its spiritual presence with a Charisma check (DC 15 + 1/2 the caster's level + the caster's Charisma modifier). Succeeding at any of these checks breaks the binding, and a fortunate binder suffers no additional harm from such a breach; the annoyed outsider just leaves. This is not always the case, however.

Some outsiders lash out at their failed binders. Because of this, many binders take additional precautions: a second magic circle in which they can stand, and dimensional anchor cast within the magic circle to prevent the conjured outsider from fleeing instantly. A tremendously powerful wizard or sorcerer might even use trap the soul on his victim, forcing it into a prepared vessel until it agrees to the binder's strictures.

Smart arcane binders often make deals with the creatures they call. Like clerics using planar ally, they bargain and shower the outsider with gifts in exchange for their services. While it is always good for an arcane spellcaster to make these deals from a position of strength, it is much better to get the outsider to come to mutually agreed upon terms for the service, rather than forcing it to commit actions against its nature or desires.

True Names wrote:
For elementals (including geniekind), such true names are not binding as they are for fiends and other outsiders, and do not give the creature a penalty to its Will save to resist being summoned. However, if the caster speaks the true name of the elemental, the elemental will most likely be intrigued enough to listen—a wizard with power and cunning enough to find an elemental's true name is a wizard with guile and strength, and elementals treasure these qualities.
Elementals and Genies wrote:

True elementals are simple creatures, thriving spirits animating bodies of pure elemental matter. They regard their lives as an eternal struggle to best themselves and each other. Each elemental type is uniquely suited to adapting to conditions on its particular plane, and is arrogant about its powers when surrounded by its element... and uniquely frightened and cowed when shown a greater power or encased in an element not its own. Most elementals do not bargain for favors—they respect only strength. Genies are the more human-like denizens of the elemental planes, both in shape and mentality. They consider themselves physically and culturally superior to true elementals.

In general, one summons an elemental for brute work and combat, and a genie for magical power or ancient wisdom, and would thus use summon monster and planar binding for those tasks, respectively. However, should a conjurer wish to bind an elemental as he would a genie or fiend, the ritual is one of wrestling with the elemental's creativity in reaching its home element. Elementals are immune to bleed, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning. They are not subject to critical hits, precision-based attacks like sneak attack, or flanking.

Genies seek and value power, though they are more brash and boastful than most. It is said the best way to secure the attentions of a genie is to speak its true name, and to offer it aid in battles against its political enemies—a wise conjurer researches the inner battles of geniekind before summoning a genie, or else is prepared to cow the genie with strong magic.

Efreeti wrote:
These warlike creatures value weapons with enhancement bonuses of at least +2 and scrolls of 4th-level or higher spells; these provide a +2 bonus on the binder's Charisma check. Efreet also appreciate attractive humanoid slaves, which give a +1 bonus on the binder's Charisma check for every 10 slaves offered.

Seems pretty obvious to me that Efreeti can indeed be bound to the service of a Wizard. Hell, they included a whole section in Ultimate Magic on Binding Outsiders and Genies get specific mention.

Funny how that works out, isn't it?

Liberty's Edge Star Voter 2013

Ashiel wrote:
ciretose wrote:

It isn't a planar binding issue, it was Genie Wish Machine in all of it's forms.

If you want to argue the Devs intended the setting to include the ability to buy +3 to all stats for 18k, which you posted, in a build, feel free.

That would be on topic.

No it wouldn't. :\

Really? I think the OP would disagree with you.

Wait. I do!

The topic is if the rules are in conflict with the setting, which do you go with.

Assistant Software Developer , Star Voter 2014

1 person marked this as a favorite.

This thread is locked. It shouldn't be difficult to act like adults.

Also, if you notice a problem, flag it and move on.

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