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Beasteshape your own Companion


Rules Questions


My large Roc doesnt fit well in the occasional dungeon crawl, so i came up with a plan. Im a lvl 9 druid and want to cast BeastShape III as spell on my companion using the "Share spells"(ex) feature.

Q1 That all ok?

My current choice is: small magical beast named Aurumvorax.

Q2 What would happen to the size bonus/corrections for this polymorph taking place? ie bonus alrdy earned from growing, and other things to consider like the standard at/ac/CMB/CMD numers?

Q3 My Roc has GRAB +4. Aurumvorax has GRAB +8. what would my roc use?

Q4 Would the spell Atavism still work? if it ever has on a companion?

Q5 How would all these natural armor bonus work out? do they all stack? cause looks like with barskin and atavism the roc nears +22 natural armor.. leading him to an ac of 40.

thx in advance


minstrel01 wrote:

My large Roc doesnt fit well in the occasional dungeon crawl, so i came up with a plan. Im a lvl 9 druid and want to cast BeastShape III as spell on my companion using the "Share spells"(ex) feature.

Q1 That all ok?

My current choice is: small magical beast named Aurumvorax.

Q2 What would happen to the size bonus/corrections for this polymorph taking place? ie bonus alrdy earned from growing, and other things to consider like the standard at/ac/CMB/CMD numers?

Q3 My Roc has GRAB +4. Aurumvorax has GRAB +8. what would my roc use?

Q4 Would the spell Atavism still work? if it ever has on a companion?

Q5 How would all these natural armor bonus work out? do they all stack? cause looks like with barskin and atavism the roc nears +22 natural armor.. leading him to an ac of 40.

thx in advance

2 problems

1 Level sorcerer/wizard 3
It is not a Druid "Spell" unless you have the animal domain.

2 Even with the animal domain you are limited the ANIMALS & can not do Magical Beasts. so no Aurumvorax.


Aah thx for the reply:
Domain Spells: 1st—calm animals, 2nd—hold animal, 3rd—dominate animal, 4th—summon nature's ally IV (animals only), 5th—beast shape III (animals only)

SO magicbeast aint an animal so a nogo there? thx
Would you know what happens to size stuff?

Buff spells: catsgrace, bearsendurance, bullstrength, strongjaw, atavism, beastshapeIII, barkskin, resinousskin, greatermagicfang

currently looking at:
BASE BUFF
1x bite primary d6 2d6
4x claw primary (GRAB) d4 d8

str 23 31
dex 24 32
con 14 22
int 3 7
wis 13 17
cha 11 15

dmg +6 +11
at (+6bab+6str+1s) +13 +18

CMBi (+6b+6str-1size+4G) 15 21
CMBm (+5) 20 26

CMD (10+6b+7d+6s-1s) 28 36

AC (10+14*+4n+7d+1s) 36 44
*14 = Druid 9 +6nat Roc start +5nat Roc adv 7th +3nat


minstrel01 wrote:

Aah thx for the reply:

Domain Spells: 1st—calm animals, 2nd—hold animal, 3rd—dominate animal, 4th—summon nature's ally IV (animals only), 5th—beast shape III (animals only)

SO magicbeast aint an animal so a nogo there? thx
Would you know what happens to size stuff?

Buff spells: catsgrace, bearsendurance, bullstrength, strongjaw, atavism, beastshapeIII, barkskin, resinousskin, greatermagicfang

currently looking at:
BASE BUFF
1x bite primary d6 2d6
4x claw primary (GRAB) d4 d8

str 23 31
dex 24 32
con 14 22
int 3 7
wis 13 17
cha 11 15

dmg +6 +11
at (+6bab+6str+1s) +13 +18

CMBi (+6b+6str-1size+4G) 15 21
CMBm (+5) 20 26

CMD (10+6b+7d+6s-1s) 28 36

AC (10+14*+4n+7d+1s) 36 44
*14 = Druid 9 +6nat Roc start +5nat Roc adv 7th +3nat

You are no longer that size so you loose it & you gain the new size bonus & penalty's for the duration of the spell.


aah so for *large -> Small* that would be:
+2 at +2ac -2 cmb -2 cmd +4 fly

but this would also mean that a roc would loose?:
7th level adv: size large: str+8 dex -2 con +4


Q1 - Yes; share spell lets you cast spells of target "you" (like beast shape) on your companion. EDIT: Of course, that would only work if you had beast shape 3, heh. I always miss the little things like who gets which spells.

Q2 - There is a chart for this. The changes in stats applied by Beast Shape assumes starting with a medium creature. The chart provides what numbers to use if you're a large creature polymorphing downwards. The net change of Large -> Small Magical Beast is -4 STR, +6 DEX, -2 CON via the spell. You then recalculate anything that uses those stats (at, ac, cmd, cmb, skill bonus, hp, etc).

Q3 - The grab's bonus comes from the creature's stats. Now here's the tricky bit. Just because you are changing the Roc into a Aurumvorax, you don't get the Aurumvorax's modified grab ability (which is an Extraordinary ability). You do get grab, but the normal grab that can only work on targets of equal size or smaller at a CMB + 4, not the Aurumvorax's +8 on creatures up to one size larger than it. You would also use the new CMB based on the 4 less strength.

Q4 - Atavism would work on an animal companion. I do not know if it would work on a magical beast or if it would continue working after you change the Roc to the Aurumvorax

Q5 - It is a complete replacement. Any natural armor the roc had goes away and it will only have the base natural armor from the spell (e.g. 2 for a small magical beast).

Barkskin is a natural armor bonus enhancement, so it stacks with existing NAB. Atavism provides an untyped AC bonus, not a natural armor bonus enhancement, so it stack with anything. Technically, the advanced template provides an increase to your NAB which still stacks.

Now, about your AC. Large Animal Companion Roc has an NAB of 3. By level nine, that's improved by 6, so 3 + 6. By 9 the Dex is 20 (19 - 2 + 3) so the AC is now 9 + 5. Barkskin at 9th is +4, so 14 + 4. Atavism gives a +4 so 18 + 4 = 22 + 10 = AC 32 for a barkskinned an atavismed (atavised?) level 9 animal companion Roc.

Now when you transform your Roc, the 9 NAB changes to 2 (not +2 to 11; your NAB becomes 2, which for normal human druids or wizards, this is an improvement). So your AC drops by 7 to 25. However, you also gained 6 dex, so your bonus goes up by 3 to 28.

So the final line is AC 28; Touch 18; Flatfooted 20. Or 24/18/16 if atavism doesn't work on magical beasts.

AC has always been the issue with Beast Shape. You could have armor made for the new form if you want though.

Hopefully others will also check my math and find any issues I missed.


going abit off topic.. but nonetheless interesting for me, base AC for the roc:

Quote:
Large Animal Companion Roc has an NAB of 3. By level nine, that's improved by 6, so 3 + 6.

Ah i think i calced it:
starting statistics: ac +5 natural armor
7th level advancement: +3 natural armor
9th level: +6
so what ever i calced hereon.. i let my roc start out with 5+3+6=14 nat ac

so im asuming this is wrong, and the large rock's natural armor deteriated from 5 to 3? and thus: 3+6=9?


Surely, the simplest solution here is to just use reduce animal, right?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Polymorph spells do not change type.

They continue to count as their base type for spells and effects.


Yeah, you don't go from +5 to +8 when you hit 7; you actually drop from 5 to 3. Though i don't really know why it is worded like that...

Really what you have is a Medium creature with a 5 NAB. At level 7 it becomes a Large ROC with a NAB of... 5 still because that doesn't change. What does change is that you now have a -2 AC from being Large (size penalty to AC).

It is worth noting that if you were to shrink the roc to medium, that -2 AC goes away. In fact, you start picking up bonuses as you go smaller.


MurphysParadox wrote:

Yeah, you don't go from +5 to +8 when you hit 7; you actually drop from 5 to 3. Though i don't really know why it is worded like that...

Really what you have is a Medium creature with a 5 NAB. At level 7 it becomes a Large ROC with a NAB of... 5 still because that doesn't change. What does change is that you now have a -2 AC from being Large (size penalty to AC).

Are you sure about that? Looking at the other animal companion progressions, that doesn't seem to make sense. Changing size shouldn't change the natural armor bonus. But even if that were the case, why does the ankylosaurus apparently lose seven points of natural AC when increasing in size? Why does the ape gain one? Not to mention the size penalty to AC for being Large is only -1.


MurphysParadox wrote:
Yeah, you don't go from +5 to +8 when you hit 7; you actually drop from 5 to 3.

If the 7th-Level Advancement is a change and not a modifier, that means it's strength becomes -2.

Normally, if a monster advances from medium to large, it gets a +2 increase to natural AC. The stat changes also match the Roc (+8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con).


Hmm, I see your point. I suppose it is a boost though the format is questionable (in part because NAB is always listed as +X whether it is the base number or an increase).

So a Roc starts at medium with 5 NAB and +4 from dex = 19 AC. When it hits level 7, it would be 5 NAB + 3 Additional NAB + 3 dex = 21 AC (plus 5 more from the animal companion's NAB and Dex increases at level 7, so 26). Of course, this assumes the +3 accounts for the size change and some other random bonus.


OP: If your question is something like:
"If I change my large Roc companion (level 7+, gained +8 STR, -2 DEX, +4 CON) into a small or medium creature, what happens to its level 7 stat changes?"
The answer is: the level 7 stat changes stick around. Animal Companion advancement (at level 4/7) changes the base creature. Polymorph spells (like alter self/beast shape/etc.) then make FURTHER changes to the new base creature.

So your Roc would maintain its base stats (Level 7, ignoring the Additional stat points from Druid levels: Str 20, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 11 etc.) and then ON TOP OF that would gain/lose whatever the spell says. In the case of Beast Shape I/II/III etc.: if you turn into a Small Animal (since you cannot choose Magical Beasts)

PRD Beast Shape I wrote:
Small animal: If the form you take is that of a Small animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +1 natural armor bonus.

So your Roc (using the stats above) would now be: Str 20, Dex 19, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 11 and gain 1 natural armor; it would lose its own natural attacks and gain the natural attacks of the creature you turn it into (say, an Eagle--which has the same attacks as the Roc!). It would also have a bunch of modifiers from the size change (+2 to attack, -2 CMB, -2 CMD, +2 AC).

If you went with a medium animal (say, Deinonychus) then your roc gains
PRD Beast Shape I wrote:
Medium animal: If the form you take is that of a Medium animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +2 natural armor bonus.

and its stats become: Str 22, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 11, gains 2 natural armor, gets 4 attacks as a dinosaur (and different size modifiers: +1 to attack, -1 CMB, -1 CMD, +1 AC).


thx for all the replies, much appreciated!

So im assuming i can stick with the NAB starting 3 + advancement +5 =8.

Odea wrote:
The answer is: the level 7 stat changes stick around.

right, thx for that.

Aah and thx for the reduce animal tip, i think im sure ill give that a go.

Trouble is atm is my char sheets... this companion is beginning to take up 4 pages..... large, large & buffed, medium & buffed, huge & buffed.

About the large/huge roc in the dungeon crawl, he probably has a wingspan of about 30-40 feet wide.
Q6 Are there any rules concerning flying in crowded spaces?

So im guessing the beastshape III (animal only) isnt that handy after all.
Q7 How would it be best to go about with this spell? use it for the occasional escape/utility since the druid is eagle shaman with limited wildshape options?

the buff spell: Animal aspect (d) gorilla states:
your arms become long flexible and strong like those of an ape.

Q8 Could this have effect on a roc since he got no arms in the first place? he got beak/talons/wings, and no upper arms like a primate.

Domain Spells: 4th—summon nature's ally IV (animals only)
Hmm my eagle shaman was summoning giant eagles with that spell.
Q9 Does the same go for this as like the Aurumvorax? giant eagle (by alt class added to the summon list) is a magical beast.. so cant summon those with that spell?

Shadow Lodge

If you want a laugh...

Animal aspects, raptor ... on your pet deinonychus for a 90 foot movement, by turning their legs into.. their legs.

Raptor: Your legs become built for running speed, like those of a deinonychus. You gain a enhancement bonus of +20 feet to your base speed.

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