Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

PaizoCon 2014!

shouldn't shield bonus increase touch AC


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion


this i just an idea. kind of wondering what people think.

I kind of feel as if shield bonus should add to touch AC. I am wondering what people think of that idea. my reasons are the following.

1) a shield basically deflects things from actually touching you. I mean... except for something like shocking grasp if your holding a metal shield deflecting something with a shield should mean your not hit by it.

2) I know that this can lead to the whole "then If i am wearing plate armer then they cant really touch me" argument but I think a certain amount of creative license should apply. basically, touching an armored shoulder and touching a shield are two different things.

3) some shields are pieces of wood or metal on your arm... and others are magic disks floating around you. if its the disk type wouldn't it protect you from touch attacks?

4) at this point I am running low but you get the point.

ah.. thats it...

just an idea.


blue_the_wolf wrote:
except for something like shocking grasp if your holding a metal shield

This is pretty much why Shield bonuses don't apply to Touch AC. If I can touch your shield, it's not really any different than touching your armor. I can still transfer the effect to you.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A spectre needs to pass it's incorporeal hand through your flesh to drain your life essence, so putting your arm up is like saying "Here, have a bone" to it, unless it's a ghost-touch shield.

Floating barriers do function against touch attacks of this type because they are force effects, if you read the small-print.


mplindustries wrote:
blue_the_wolf wrote:
except for something like shocking grasp if your holding a metal shield
This is pretty much why Shield bonuses don't apply to Touch AC. If I can touch your shield, it's not really any different than touching your armor. I can still transfer the effect to you.

That only happens on some attacks, mostly electricity, even then you could utterly wreck electricity by having a metal wire going from your shield to the ground. Fire spells rarely generate an actual fire that could transfer to you. Directed cold is generally stopped by putting a solid object between you an it. Acid only transfers if you're dumb enough to touch it. Finally sonic depends entirely on how wide it is.

Absolutely none of that has anything to do with the fact that HP is abstract which is why things centered around taking damage get weird in places like this.

Taldor

Your over-thinking the game a bit. Remember it's not a real life simulator. Rules like that need to be more generic to apply reasonably in most cases. Otherwise we'd have to clarify in spell and effect descriptions if they allowed things rather then just having a blanket rule.

Cheliax

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I use magic to, you know, pass the other magic into you through your shield with the touch attack. It's like playing tag, only with more pain and horror.


I think letting shield bonuses to AC apply to touch attacks without feat investment would certainly encourage shield use. Which is probably a good thing. Provided one is careful and confident about reconciling complications/cheese like also Two Weapon Fighting and alternate forms of secondary attack such as armor spikes or unarmed attacks while already using a one-handed weapon and shield.


I think that on the bump to shield utility alone would make it a good choice but it was just a midnight idea that I was tossing around. not really stressing over the reality.

I basically think its 50/50 half the time a shield should probably protect from touch attacks and half the time it would be meaningless. with that in mind I think I personally think its something that should add to touch AC... but not enough to want to worry about remembering a house rule.


no. I view touch as a ghost that reaches through objects to hit you. Thius why the shield spell protects since it is a force barrier.


/shrug/ its not that simple, ghosts are not the ONLY things that do touch attacks... which is kind of the point.

not ALL touch attacks are made by ghosts. what do you think about most rays, or spells that are cast by entirely corporeal casters reaching out and touching some one.

not saying your totally wrong... just pointing out that the 50/50 comment I made is in reference to the fact that SOME touch attacks could clearly ignore a shield and others should clearly be block able by a shield.


You want to get more messed? what about the gunslingers bullets targeting touch?
You could argue the armour piercing bit, but let me explain how i see it.
A piece of lead being swung at you hits your armour, a piece of lead flying at you ignores armour and hits you.
Fine, makes sense so far.
Add in ghost touch,
Your armour blocks ghostly things like it blocks lead swung at you.
Now this otherwise normal lead that simply went faster is all of a sudden blocked by the shield!
Therefore... normal lead is blocked if swung, but not fired. Normal lead is blocked if it would normally only block non normal (and non-material) material....
Go figure...

Ps now that I think about it, I need to make a ghost gunslinger!!!


The biggest problem with the "armor piercing bullet" concept, is that plate could actually stop bullets. When buying plate, if you knew what you were doing, you would look for a dent in the armor, if it had a hole in it, you didn't buy it. This was the armor being tested to see if it was bullet-proof.

Modern bullets have changed that, because they are smaller, and have a significantly greater amount of force behind them. This is why modern plates are ceramic the bullet impacts the armor, and most of the energy is transferred to the plates in the form of cracks, which is why you're supposed to get them replaced after getting shot: they're suddenly less effective.


RAW, there's a Fighter Archetype that accomplishes just what you request. Want that Shield Bonus to Touch AC? Either Houserule it, or play the Class and Archetype.

RAI, I can see how using a shield can help in protecting against attacks that just have to hit you. I can also see, however, that using a shield in some cases wouldn't be able to accomplish what you want it to. Why? Because 1. Some effects make no discrepancy against what it needs to target, nor of any objects attached to a person that don't grant such exceptions, and 2. You'd need some sort of special method or capability to utilize it in such a manner, which is what the Archetype offers you.

In general, I wouldn't even complain about this because not only is it balanced to leave it at this, but also that there is something RAW that already accomplishes what you're looking for that doesn't compromise anything major.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I added shield bonuses to touch AC as a house rule back in 3e days. Makes good sense to me.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Gobo Horde wrote:

You want to get more messed? what about the gunslingers bullets targeting touch?

You could argue the armour piercing bit, but let me explain how i see it.
A piece of lead being swung at you hits your armour, a piece of lead flying at you ignores armour and hits you.
Fine, makes sense so far.
Add in ghost touch,
Your armour blocks ghostly things like it blocks lead swung at you.
Now this otherwise normal lead that simply went faster is all of a sudden blocked by the shield!
Therefore... normal lead is blocked if swung, but not fired. Normal lead is blocked if it would normally only block non normal (and non-material) material....
Go figure...

Ps now that I think about it, I need to make a ghost gunslinger!!!

The ghost touch armor special ability only blocks incorporeal touch attacks, not all touch attacks.

Bill Dunn wrote:
I added shield bonuses to touch AC as a house rule back in 3e days. Makes good sense to me.

In D&D 3.0, the shield spell granted cover bonuses, not shield bonuses.

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / General Discussion / shouldn't shield bonus increase touch AC All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.