|
Custom Item Creation of any kind is not allowed. This includes 'fusing' say, a Belt of Strength and Belt of Dwarvenkind for a Belt of Strong Dwarves(which I believe is what you were asking in the OP).
You could however, make a +1 Frost Keen Longbow as your arcane bond(if that was your bonded item). Non-named weapons and armor are kind of the exception to the rule.
|
Actually, I was thinking of Lesser Ring of Spell Storing fused with Ring of Spell Knowledge III that gave the ability to cast Cure Moderate Wounds for a fighter/sorcerer/Eldritch Knight as a 3rd level spell.
The Lesser Ring of Spell Storing is a filter for casting my otherwise underutilized 1st level spell slots, since I chose to use Still Spell to avoid Arcane Spell Failure.
So I expect the answer is still "No." But figured it's better to ask - and possibly be pleasantly surprised.
|
|
You could however, make a +1 Frost Keen Longbow as your arcane bond(if that was your bonded item). Non-named weapons and armor are kind of the exception to the rule.
Does this all have to happen at once? I've seen people say upgrading the arcane bond is one-time only. Does that include 'progressive' enchanting?
Meaning, if I have my masterwork longbow arcane bond, and I've got the appropriate level and spellcraft and whatnot, I can make it +1 Frost for 4,000gp (assuming I have enough fame to purchase a 8,375gp item). Then in a few levels once I get more fame, can I make it a +1 Frost Keen Longbow by paying an additional 5,000gp? (Again, assuming enough fame to purchase an 18,375gp item)
The Arcane Bond FAQ doesn't seem to limit it, it just says to use the magic item FAQ. The magic item FAQ seems to be talking about named items and wondrous items, it seems like normal weapons are not really addressed.
|
|
You could however, make a +1 Frost Keen Longbow as your arcane bond(if that was your bonded item). Non-named weapons and armor are kind of the exception to the rule.Meaning, if I have my masterwork longbow arcane bond, and I've got the appropriate level and spellcraft and whatnot, I can make it +1 Frost for 4,000gp (assuming I have enough fame to purchase a 8,375gp item). Then in a few levels once I get more fame, can I make it a +1 Frost Keen Longbow by paying an additional 5,000gp? (Again, assuming enough fame to purchase an 18,375gp item)
Correct. You can still upgrade normally, but you can ONLY upgrade weapons, armor, or a wonderous item of +X(A belt of incredible dexterity +2 to +4, for example, but NOT bracers of archery lesser to greater).
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Sean H, he was asking about how much it will cost him, not whether or not the upgrade could be made. And if you look at his numbers, he's applying the "crafting discount" to every step.
This is incorrect. The FAQ is unclear (and references another part of the FAQ that I'm not sure even exists anymore), but you only get the "discount" on the first enchant. If you want to upgrade more later, you pay full price like everyone else.
|
|
Sean H, he was asking about how much it will cost him, not whether or not the upgrade could be made. And if you look at his numbers, he's applying the "crafting discount" to every step.
This is incorrect. The FAQ is unclear (and references another part of the FAQ that I'm not sure even exists anymore), but you only get the "discount" on the first enchant. If you want to upgrade more later, you pay full price like everyone else.
This was my understanding too of the FAQ. It only says you get the discount when upgrading a mundane item to a magical one.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Although I don't have a reference, I believe the idea is that even if you go straight from mundane to +3 (or whatever), that still counts as three sequential enchants for purposes of applying the discount to only the first. That is, you get the +1 at half price, but the rest is full price, even if you get it all at once.
The FAQ's language could stand to be updated/clarified, though.
|
|
Somewhat related, the Core book talks about being able to combine rings but that the secondary effect costs 50% more. So, are you allowed to purchase a Ring of Protection +1 and Featherfall for 5,200 gp for Society play?
Up there at the top^^^^^
That was basically the starting question for the thread. To summarize: No. The arcane bond does not let you get around the crafting restrictions in PFS. If you can't buy it then you can't have it as an arcane bond. All it does is give you an arcane bond at a cheaper cost.
|
|
| 13 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I think the FAQ could stand some clarification.
A character with the arcane bond class feature may create a bond with any magical item they own, as long as it falls within the categories permitted by the arcane bond ability. If a caster selects a non-magical item as his arcane bond, and the player later wishes to upgrade it, he may do so for the cost value of the final item as listed in the item's statblock. A bonded item that is enchanted must still conform to all the campaign rules for access to and upgrading of magical items. See the magic item upgrading FAQ for how to upgrade the Arcane Bonded item once it is magical.
Final item, to me, means that if you are taking a non-magical bonded item, say a longsword (Elven Wizard, anyone?), from masterwork to +1 Keen Frost, you would only pay the 50% price, the cost value, rather than only getting 1k GP off for the initial +1.
The real question, for me, which the FAQ doesn't really clarify, is whether you can do interim upgrades for the 50% price, as well.
As mentioned, a single discounted item, which is still sunderable, for a Wizard isn't going to be a big deal. And using the replace an arcane bond item would let them do the same thing for only a fraction over the 50% cost anyway.
And how does it handle enchanting a wand as an arcane bond? Use the 50 charges, it is back to being a non-magical wand, which you can then re-enchant with a new spell with 50 charges at half price. And, as an additional question, can you, when doing the arcane bond enchantment, create it at more than minimum caster level?
In other words, as a 9th level Wizard, with a mundane arcane bonded wand, can I enchant it with a 9th level CL version of Magic Missile, for the 5 missiles per charge, or am I stuck still enchanting it at 1st level, for 1 missile per charge?
|
|
"For items which can be enchanted incrementally (such as weapons or a ring of protection), only the first step gets this discount."
Is this only when enchanting a non-magical item, or just the first step in which you used the class feature to get a discount?
My bonded item was a masterwork Heavy Steel Shield. At level 3, I paid 1,000 gp to get a +1 enhancement bonus to AC. Since I wasn't level 5, I didn't qualify for the craft magic arms and armor feat, so I couldn't have gotten a discount.
Now that I'm level 5, can I upgrade the enchantment to +2 by paying 1,500 gp? I have more than 18 fame.
Or would I have to buy a brand new masterwork heavy steel shield, bond with it, then upgrade that one in order to get my discount? (Which would cost more than just never getting a discount at all)
If the item must be non-magical in order to get a discount, does that include any type of magic at all? Currently if I bash with my shield, it's not considered a magic weapon and it doesn't overcome DR/magic. Could I enchant my existing shield into a +1 weapon by paying 1,000 gp?
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
|
So, if I'm reading this correctly, the only benefit to arcane bond for a weapon is that at 5th level, you can get 1000gp off the price of the magic weapon. And a few spells. If something happens to it, my casting is nerfed until I spend more gold to get a new one.
Tell me there's some good reason to still take this?
BTW, is shield even a valid bond? Text says "amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon."
|
yeah... why is this nerfed from the regular game rules on item creation? at 7th level i can bond a wand. put fireball in it, and get it for 2250gp off. at 5th level i can only upgrade my weapon to +1 for a thousand gold pieces off?
an amulet can be amulet of natural armor +1 for 1000gp discount, but if i get something that isn't upgradable in steps, I can get it for a huge discount.
this seems like an incongrous hit. ( also... my caster already bought his +1 holy weapon ... do i have to refund his fees and take that away from him ? )
i agree the FAQ is clear. I don't understand why only the first such upgrade is at a reduced price.
|
|
i agree the FAQ is clear. I don't understand why only the first such upgrade is at a reduced price.
I think that it is because there is no crating allowed for anyone else, allowing people with an arcane bond to get progressively more powerful items for half-price undermines that PFS rule of no crafting and gives anyone with the arcane bond too much of an advantage with respect to WBL.
When you ban something powerful like crafting by house rule you have to make sure that the exceptions you carve out are as small as possible.
Venture-Agent, Colorado—Colorado Springs
|
I think the FAQ could stand some clarification.
I have clarified the FAQ. Please let me know if it fixes the problems and answers the questions presented in this thread.
Thanks for all the feedback and input to help me get this problem fixed.
Awesome!
However...
What if I wanted to upgrade my bonded greatsword into a Frost Brand? Is crafting it as a frost brand the "first step" in this case, or must I first upgrade it to a +1 greatsword (for my 1k gp discount) and then upgrade it to the frost brand? Same question for basically every named magical weapon.
I'm comparing this to a Ring of Shooting Stars, which clearly gets everything, and the full 25k discount, in a single step.
|
|
Tell me there's some good reason to still take this?
BTW, is shield even a valid bond? Text says "amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon."
I'm playing a Skirnir magus Archetype from Ultimate Combat, you get a shield as an arcane bond item.
I've found the ability to spontaneously cast any one spell from my spellbook to be very helpful for a prepared spellcaster.
I'm not sure waiting until level 5 to enchant it at all would have been worth the 500 or 1,000 gp discount.
|
|
When you ban something powerful like crafting by house rule you have to make sure that the exceptions you carve out are as small as possible.
allowing it to only be a discount on the first step of crafting is severely undercutting the slight boon given to an arcane caster with a bonded object. And does not eliminate the option of saving thousands of gold on a purchase.
when someone can at 7th level bond a wand, and save double or tripple that gold expenditure you're getting as a "bonus" for having a weapon or amulet bond, it feels a little bit like a dig at the weapon bonders.
an example cost breakdown for wands ( craft at 5th level ):
3rd level wand of fireballs: normally 11,250gp. savings: 5,125gp.
4th level wand of something? normally 21,000gp. savings 10,500gp.
an example breakdown for amulets (craft at 3rd level):
amulet of natural armor +1 : price 2,000gp. savings 1,000gp.
amulet of natural armor +2 : price 8,000gp. savings: 1,000gp.
(and a base crafting requirment of 3CL x enhancement bonus)
amulet of hidden strength: price 9,000gp. savings 4,500gp.
amulet of magecraft: 20,000gp. savings 10,000gp.
an example breakdown of weapons (craft at 5th level):
+1 greatsword: price +2,000gp. savings 1,000gp.
+1 frost greatsword: price +8,000gp. savings 1,000gp.
an example breakdown of rings (craft at 7th level):
ring of protection +3: cost 18,000gp. savings 1,000gp.
ring of freedom of movement: cost 40,000gp. savings: 20,000gp.
Lets not forget that they've had this bonded object as just a free masterwork item for several levels at little to no use until they hit the level they want to craft it into something, or have paid to have it enchanted to a +1 ring, +1 weapon, or +1 amulet already. Thanks to the new ruling, they get no benefit from the crafting whatsoever because its already been enchanted one step.
so i ask what about this seems fair and balanced? characters can still get a ring, wand or amulet of something cool and save 10-20,000gp. it just doesn't go into a +3 weapon, it becomes a ring of evasion or something else that is a big single enchantment. and the ruling shafts anyone who has a weapon or an item that gets enchanted in steps. So yeah, I'm listing a grievance w/ the ruling, its the forums, i'm allowed to gripe. i've got two characters that this effects retroactively with arcane bonded weapons.
|
|
devils advocate, i can see them saying no it because they're just bypassing crafting rules. PSF doesn't have crafting so there's usually no great attention paid to the crafting rules. We're not being asked to make a Spellcraft Check to craft the bonded item. And by only getting half off the initial +1, its like presuming that yes, by 5th level everyone meets the requirements to make the +1 item without penalty on the crafting rules. a +1 flaming sword would have some other crafting requirements, maybe 6th level for a +2 weapon, or having to know fireball or flame strike or some such nonsense, we get to skip over the +1, and then have to have someone else craft the item the rest of the way.
- but people looking for the big 50% discount don't have to make spellcraft checks or pay attention to crafting requirements either.
- and if an item is enchanted to +1 by the character, and then enchanted by someone else to Holy Flaming, and the character switches the bond. Does the entire item revert to a masterwork weapon? Does the character have to pay back the savings? or does it stay a +1 Holy Flaming cane?