The Not Monk Thread

[Mortuum]

Ever wish there was a place to put your suggestions, houserules and homebrew other than the Monk Forum? What's that you say? Yes? Yes you do? Well my friend, this might just be the thread for you!

Here's how it works: We post and discuss all those simple little changes we've made to the system, or that we're thinking of making. Things that might not merit a thread of their own, but are worth sharing even so.

And please, don't use the M Word here. Think of the children.

I'll start.

Pirate Points:

Because heroes are saps.
This is exactly Hero Points, except you earn them for being disgustingly evil, outrageously stylish or a true magnificent bastard, rather than for doing good.
They don't see much use at my table, but this still strikes me as a good way to encourage a different kind of party/campaign. In the future, I can imagine personalising the mechanic to individual characters, or perhaps using an alignment based system.
I only hand out pirate points for services from the players if they involve rum, gold or genuine treasure maps, because I really hate basing in-game power on out-of-game favour.

Conjoined Weapons:

I mentioned these in a thread I made full of bad ideas about weapons once, but it doesn't hurt to bring them up again, I think.

A conjoined weapon is a couple of weapons stuck together. They cost 30gp plus the price of the component weapons and they must be built from scratch. No glueing your swords together at the hilt.
You need both hands to wield the pair.
When you attack with conjoined weapons, you choose whether to attack with one end in two hands or one end in each hand (assuming both ends are small enough to wield one-handed).

These completely replace double weapons and you don't need any special proficiencies to use them. You can even replicate the double crossbow this way.

When using this rule, there's a new feat which lets characters wield two one-handed weapons with Two-Weapon Fighting without taking the usual extra penalty. It requires Str 13 and TWF.

The idea behind this is it expands options. Now GMs have a very simple system for making new weapons, characters can pick up and use whatever insane thing you cook up and if you can wield a double ended sword efficiently, you can use a pair of identical swords just as well.

Ranger Meta-Archetypes:

Extraordinary Trapper

This variant on the Trapper cannot use supernatural traps. Instead, they can create extraordinary cold-based traps with alchemists’ ice and extraordinary traps do not take the usual -2 penalty to their DCs.

Trophy Trapper

Trophy Hunters who are also Trappers can trade their ability to attach traps to bolts, arrows and thrown weapons for the ability to shoot them from guns and attach them to thrown alchemical items.

Urban Trophy Hunter

Sometimes called bounty hunters, Urban Rangers who are also Trophy Hunters can choose to take the Investigator Rogue archetype's Follow Up ability in place of Improved Tracking.

Urban Trapper

Urban Rangers who are also Trappers gain Diplomacy as a class skill. Instead of gaining Trap Finding a second time, an Urban Trapper gains the Roof Runner Rogue’s Roof Running ability.

Urban Guide

At 4th level, Guides who are also Urban Rangers develop a bond with their favoured communities. This works just like a bond with their favoured terrain.

[Atarlost]

I would use the term villain points or antihero points. Pirate points are a completely different thing in a completely different miniature war game/RPG. And there's no reason not to apply them to terrestrial brigandage.

[Mortuum]

EVERYTHING is a completely different thing in a different game. There are a lot of other games out there.
They're called pirate points because I invented them so I could include Hero Points in Skull and Shackles, which seemed to be more about piracy than heroics. Besides, why would you get "villain points" for giving me rum and a treasure map?

[Flak]

Sorry for off-topic post but I had to say: this is hilarious. You rock Mortuum. :)

[Horbagh]

I can finally fight with sword-chucks in pathfinder!

[Atarlost]

Mortuum wrote:

EVERYTHING is a completely different thing in a different game. There are a lot of other games out there.

They're called pirate points because I invented them so I could include Hero Points in Skull and Shackles, which seemed to be more about piracy than heroics. Besides, why would you get "villain points" for giving me rum and a treasure map?

Did anyone actually give you rum and a treasure map?

[+5 Toaster]

Atarlost wrote:

Mortuum wrote:

EVERYTHING is a completely different thing in a different game. There are a lot of other games out there.

They're called pirate points because I invented them so I could include Hero Points in Skull and Shackles, which seemed to be more about piracy than heroics. Besides, why would you get "villain points" for giving me rum and a treasure map?

Did anyone actually give you rum and a treasure map?

no one ever pays me in rum and treasure maps ;)

[Mortuum]

It's true, I'm just an awesome guy. Sadly I did not get a treasure map, but I'm actually glad I didn't really get the rum. One of our players doesn't drink and the guy who's most likely to bring it once turned up drunk to a session in a different campaign. It was awkward and he acted weird.

Here's some more stuff to try and get things rolling:

My Skills Houserules:

Acrobatics no longer covers jumping. Be sad.

Athletics is a new Strength-based skill combining jumping, Climb and Swim.

Autohypnosis is available to all.

Climb has been thrown in with Athletics, above. If your class had Climb, it gets Athletics instead.

Intimidate uses the highest of your Strength or Charisma.

Swim has been thrown in with Athletics, above. If your class had Swim, it gets Athletics instead.

Vaguely Piratical Guns:

Guns Everywhere Optional Rule: You can buy early firearms and any related non-magical equipment or ammunition for 1/10 of the listed price. All guns are simple weapons. If a class feature would give you a battered gun that only you can use, ignore it.

No Advanced Firearms: They simply don’t exist in this world.

The Musketeer Cavalier doesn't start with a gifted firearm. He can adopt a gun by practising with it for a week. This doesn't fit the musketeer flavour, but it’s more practical. Besides, you’re a pirate.

The Holy Gun Paladin looks very weak. Thankfully, it’s not really required: Try taking a single level of Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger, then Multiclassing into Divine Hunter Paladin and staying there instead. It’s exactly the same only stronger and you get more cool things.

The Divine Hunter Paladin can add the Reliable property to divine bonded guns.

Character Points:

Ignore the standard favoured class bonus options and the character-level-based feat and ability score progressions.
Instead, characters get 5 CP per favoured class level and 4 CP per non-favoured class level.
1 CP is worth:
- 1 Hit Point (you can’t take this more times than you have character levels)
-1 Skill Point (you can’t take this more times than you have character levels)
-A Racial Favoured Class Bonus (you can take these even for classes you don’t favour, but you can’t take any particular benefit more times than you have levels in its class)
2 CP is worth:
-A Trait
-A Training Point. (Training points are the points you use to buy your ability scores in point-buy generation. You can save them for as long as you like or spend them at any time. Ignore your racial modifiers when determining the cost of raising an ability with training points. It can never cost more than 4 training points to raise a score.)
4 CP is worth:
-A Feat

Ooh, and I forgot one thing: You can get a pirate point for an act of impressive audacity.

[Icyshadow]

Mortuum wrote:

It's true, I'm just an awesome guy. Sadly I did not get a treasure map, but I'm actually glad I didn't really get the rum. One of our players doesn't drink and the guy who's most likely to bring it once turned up drunk to a session in a different campaign. It was awkward and he acted weird.

Here's some more stuff to try and get things rolling:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **...

These sound really good, actually.

[Mortuum]

Thanks. Glad you think so. Anybody else have some odds and ends to share?

[Stubs McKenzie]

I like a lot of what you have thrown out there Mortuum. Only thing I would push back on, and only because I think it adds cool flavor, is Athletics should have some extra one-time skill point investment if the character wants it to include the swim skill. As in, you can put 20 ranks over 20 levels into the skill but still not be able to swim well. But, with a small investment... 1 or 2 skill points (or something like that) that do not add to the current ranks... the skill now includes swim. The chance of drowning is a very real possibility for many people in this world. A 1 or 2 skill point investment isn't really taxing for most characters, but it does highlight the investment needed to learn to swim. It also could be given for free by a DM to a character who grew up on the water, or in certain campaign settings (pirates on the open sea and such)... but I know folks who grew up on lakes/oceans that never learned to swim... so I personally would shy away from that tact.

As far as my own houserules, I don't like Pathfinder's treatment of horses, so modified the stats to create representations of groups of breeds by job type while sticking as close to the rule set as possible.

(this was before the combat training (CT) clarification that combat training did NOT in fact give light armor prof, which i still think it should so war horses have the ability to wear heavy barding, so i didn't change the text)

Remodeled Horse stats:

Donkeys/mules/ponies would use the current stat block for ponies [2HD],
Horses/camels (riding) would still use normal for horses [2HD],
War pony would use rebuilt advanced template and gain 1HD, Combat Trained (per CT), Endurance (b), Light armor prof (per CT), lose run (b), have 2 feats to put in whatever you want (medium and heavy prof as examples).
Horses (work) +1 HD, toughness (b), lose run (b), endurance, great fortitude.
Warhorse/war-camel gain +3HD (total 5HD) use rebuilt advanced template, Combat Trained (per CT), Endurance, run (b), Light Armor Prof (per CT), have 2 extra feats.

I also greatly simplified barding to contain a single stat block for each armor type (light, medium, and heavy). I did this because many human armors cannot function properly as barding equivalents. Full Plate barding simply cannot be worn by a horse, protect the horse in the same fashion, and allow the horse to still move it's legs. Same goes for hide armor, chainmail, etc etc. descriptions are written with horses in mind, but should be remajiggerfied for any animal capable of its use. Weights listed are for large creatures, modify accordingly.

Barding:

Light Barding = +2 ac, -1 ACP, Max dex 4, Weight = 30 lbs. Light barding consists of cloth and leather straps, and a protective blanket that lays across a horse's back and drapes down their sides to approximately the stirrup.

Medium Barding = +4 ac, -2 ACP, Max dex 3, Weight = 50 lbs. Medium barding contains Light Barding, plus additional protection along the chest and flanks, usually consisting of woven cloth or leather.

Heavy Barding = +7 ac, -4 ACP, Max dex 2, Weight = 100 lbs. Heavy barding contains both Light and Medium Barding, plus metal plates covering the head/snout, shins, and rump. Leather chest guard is also reinforced with metal plates.

All barding but light must be removed each night or the animal will become fatigued. Only Heavy Barding contains metal plates, and therefore can be made of mithril. Mithril reduces weight and ACP differently for barding than for armor, as follows: 25% weight redux, -1 ACP check, Cost for large creature = +9,000 gp. Any other modifiers not listed works as in the special material section.

[Mortuum]

Nice. Simplified barding makes a lot of sense. I've never used pathfinder's horses much, but your stats for them all look very reasonable.

The reason swim is rolled in is in most campaigns there's just very little reason to know how, but in real life, lots of people can. It's hardly difficult for an able-bodied person.
It seems to me like the ability to swim should be the default for characters who are... well, athletic. I see athletic characters who can't swim as like characters who can speak several languages who can't read; possible, but still special cases.

[Arslanxelan]

Best thread topic ever mortuum. You made me spill my coffee.

[Mortuum]

I'm glad others feel the same way I do. I think there were only 3 unique topics between all the Suggestions/Houserules/Homebrew threads on the main forum page when I decided to post this.
My logic it that the only treatment is to get as broad a range of topics and ideas in a single thread as is humanly possible.

Maybe we should aim for 50 different bits of submitted content and see what happens if they're all run at once?

[Arslanxelan]

I'm currently working on changing the Pathfinder dragons to work more like the 3.5 ones (my campaign is a Pathfinder/3.5 hybrid) also working on the gem dragons and some new ones. If I finish those this week ill probably post them here.

[ProximaC]

In my campaign, Axe Beaks have a custom quality called Sturdy Frame that allows them to calculate their carrying capacity as though they were quadrupeds.

Because I'm a huge Final Fantasy nerd, I've just decided to stop hiding it.

[Stubs McKenzie]

The issue with swimming being automatic (in my opinion) is that if someone doesnt know how/has never tried to swim, they often panic when they find themselves in water over their head, and sometimes in water shallower than that. They flail and expend great amounts of energy instead of treading water. While panicking, they breathe heavily, and often take in water as they don't consistently stay above water. Panic is their undoing.

On the other hand, a great swimmer often is pretty decent at jumping, or climbing (as long as we aren't talking about technical climbing), as they have awesome endurance and athletic ability.

But again, that is just my opinion/my experience, and don't want to be seen as arguing the point, when you have created some fantastic house rules :)

[Goth Guru]

ProximaC wrote:

In my campaign, Axe Beaks have a custom quality called Sturdy Frame that allows them to calculate their carrying capacity as though they were quadrupeds.

Because I'm a huge Final Fantasy nerd, I've just decided to stop hiding it.

They call them Pack Reas because Dire Reas was too silly for most GMs.

How about Scoundrel points. Allow it to all Rogues and archtypes. Change nothing else, it sounds perfect. Especially with the Rogues as fighters whiners.

[Mortuum]

Restricting it by class sounds dumb. Class is how you do things, the points are what you do. Scoundrel is a pretty decent name though.

As for panicking in water, I'm not seeing it. We're talking about adventurous athletes here. They don't panic and flail around when faced with zombies, lava or 700 foot drops. Besides, like I said, I think familiarity with water is such a mundane and common thing that it should be the basic assumption, like familiarity with letters. Of course people who don't know what they're doing will struggle, but that doesn't mean characters should be unfamiliar just because the skill isn't very important to their flavour or build.

Axe beaks carrying as quadrupeds is a great idea. I might have to steal it.

[Goth Guru]

Stubs McKenzie wrote:

The issue with swimming being automatic (in my opinion) is that if someone doesnt know how/has never tried to swim, they often panic when they find themselves in water over their head, and sometimes in water shallower than that. They flail and expend great amounts of energy instead of treading water. While panicking, they breathe heavily, and often take in water as they don't consistently stay above water. Panic is their undoing.

On the other hand, a great swimmer often is pretty decent at jumping, or climbing (as long as we aren't talking about technical climbing), as they have awesome endurance and athletic ability.

But again, that is just my opinion/my experience, and don't want to be seen as arguing the point, when you have created some fantastic house rules :)

If they grew up in a coastal port city, they should get a conditional modifier +5 to swimming. A desert nomad would get -5.

[Evil Lincoln]

*slow clap*

But do you have any ideas on how to fix the Monk?

[Stubs McKenzie]

Goth Guru wrote:

Stubs McKenzie wrote:

The issue with swimming being automatic (in my opinion) is that if someone doesnt know how/has never tried to swim, they often panic when they find themselves in water over their head, and sometimes in water shallower than that. They flail and expend great amounts of energy instead of treading water. While panicking, they breathe heavily, and often take in water as they don't consistently stay above water. Panic is their undoing.

On the other hand, a great swimmer often is pretty decent at jumping, or climbing (as long as we aren't talking about technical climbing), as they have awesome endurance and athletic ability.

But again, that is just my opinion/my experience, and don't want to be seen as arguing the point, when you have created some fantastic house rules :)

If they grew up in a coastal port city, they should get a conditional modifier +5 to swimming. A desert nomad would get -5.

There are 430,000? or so swimming related deaths a year, the top 3 age categories who die in water are very young, very old, and 18-36 (prime of your life)... being near water has nothing to do with your ability to swim. Many many many die from overestimating their ability to stay above water every year. Without proper training humans just do not know how to swim, unlike many other animals. That does not mean no human can swim without training of course, it just means that many fail to do so.

[Mortuum]

Evil Lincoln wrote:

*slow clap*

But do you have any ideas on how to fix the Monk?

Actually, yes!

But.

I will kill you.

I guess 20 or so posts until it came up is pretty good going though. I was expecting it to be more like 2.

[Icyshadow]

It was fun while it lasted.

Then again, I find it fun even after that!!

[Goth Guru]

One of the beach boys drowned, after getting stinking drunk. -5
It was late at night so he may have hit his head on something. -4 more.