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Has Anyone Converted the Poisoner PrC from DR 312?


Conversions

Grand Lodge

The HD and skills will be no problem to do myself, but the main reason I ask is because of the "Poison Touch Effects" table. As you progress in the class you gain the ability to develop your own biological poison through natural means. Basically you become a vishkanya in a sense. The main problem is the amount of damage it does and the fact that it's every time you touch them. Basically it's 3.5 rules for poison. In Pathfinder the damage was lessened and it lasted for a number of rounds, plus you had X cure saves as well. The save DCs are low though.

I was hoping for some help on this as a player would like to do this for his next character when we start the Way of the Wicked evil campaign.


IIRC 3.5 to PF conversion file had the rules for recalculating poison damage. You might want to check them.

Grand Lodge

Drejk wrote:
IIRC 3.5 to PF conversion file had the rules for recalculating poison damage. You might want to check them.

Thankfully enough it was in there. And wow did poison get weak. For 9 levels the poison damage is a mere 1 after being converted.


Pathfinder poisons inflict lesser damage per period of frequency but standard frequency is 1/round for multiple rounds meaning that they often inflict greater average damage than 3.5 poisons.

Grand Lodge

Drejk wrote:
Pathfinder poisons inflict lesser damage per period of frequency but standard frequency is 1/round for multiple rounds meaning that they often inflict greater average damage than 3.5 poisons.

According to the conversion rules, no they don't. At least not unless you do at least 8+ poison damage in 3.5's books. So anything that does 1 to 7, now only does 1 damage flat. So only the 2d4 damage does 1d2 for 4/rounds. Everything else, 1 damage for 1 round, and 1 save.

If I've read it completely wrong, I'd like to know how to fix it.

The numbers are:
1d2
1d3
1d4
1d6
2d4

This makes it 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1d2/4 rounds.


Actually, looking at the conversion rules it states that for poisons that did 7 or under that their damage is 1, and their frequency is equal to the maximum damage possible. In the case of the numbers you listed you would have:

1 damage for 2 rounds
1 damage for 3 rounds
1 damage for 4 rounds
1 damage for 6 rounds
1d2 damage for 4 rounds

This is assuming that those are the total amount of damage done by the poisons, and that they didn't have a secondary effect etc.

Grand Lodge

Indrajit wrote:
This is assuming that those are the total amount of damage done by the poisons, and that they didn't have a secondary effect etc.

No, no secondary effects. It's supernatural poison that you sweat out of yourself.

It's still pretty lackluster though. Especially at 20th level (well, 10th level PrC) when it's a straight up DC 20.


It is indeed lackluster. Given the overall extra "oomph" added to most PF classes, I don't see why you couldn't seek to add said "oomph" to this prestige class. I'm unsure of the type of damage (str, dex, etc.), nor the number of uses per day, but I would consider making at least on par with the Vishkanya poison by around its second or third upgrade, assuming this PrC entry level is ~6. From there I would consider tossing on an extra save needed at some point as well.

Poisons can seem a little underwhelming, but remembering that successive failed saves from additional doses are increasing the DC by +2, and the duration by half as much as the original. This means that if you possess the ability to utilize the poison many times in a row you can soon get to a point where doom is all but assured for the unfortunate victim.

Grand Lodge

It's a 6th level entry, but the DC's can't go up, much like most poisons. Well, unless you take Ability Focus for +2. The damage you deal is chosen by you each time you secrete it. You can do any of the six ability scores, but the more detrimental that stat is, the lower the poison is. Say you're a 10th level poisoner. You do 2d4 Str or Dex, or 1d4 Con, or 1d6 Int or Wis or Cha. So instead it's going to be 1d2, 1, and 1 for X rounds, assuming they don't save on the first try. And your save is DC 20. That's after waiting three rounds to sweat it out and apply it to your weapon. Then you have three rounds to use it before it goes away. Then you do the three round thing again. In Dragon Magazine this was a variant assassin class.

The character's going to be facing off against a continent of LG clerics and paladins, and the occasional knight or fighter. More likely cavaliers when it comes to melee though.

By the time he hits the proper levels they'll either be stupid resistant or immune.


Some tweaking of application to weapon process and the time it lasts on blade is required then, to make it a viable class. Saving throw DC should be scaling up with levels as well.

Grand Lodge

Drejk wrote:
Some tweaking of application to weapon process and the time it lasts on blade is required then, to make it a viable class. Saving throw DC should be scaling up with levels as well.

It actually does, but not in the way you'd normally be used to. It goes up 2 DC per two levels. It starts at DC 14 at 1-2 levels, and ends at DC 20 at 9-10th level.


I'd replace it with something like 10+full class level+ability modifier (probably Intelligence, unless some other ability score is used by that class prominently). DC 20 for poison in case of 15th level character (I assume that you can get 1st level of that PrC around 6th character level) is certainly low.

Grand Lodge

Drejk wrote:
I'd replace it with something like 10+full class level+ability modifier (probably Intelligence, unless some other ability score is used by that class prominently). DC 20 for poison in case of 15th level character (I assume that you can get 1st level of that PrC around 6th character level) is certainly low.

It is a variant of the assassin so Int would make sense. There's not much else going for the class overall so I suppose changing up the DC wouldn't be too much of a drastic change to power. And yes, 1st level Poisoner can be gained at 6th.


If the class itself really has nothing going for it, might I suggest having your player take a look at the Daggermark Poisoner PrC from Paths of Prestige? If they aren't completely attached to the idea of having a biological poison, than they might get a tad more out of this PrC, as well as saving you the headache of conversion.


Or you could just break the Pr class into a bunch of rogue talents and call it good.

Grand Lodge

Indrajit wrote:
If the class itself really has nothing going for it, might I suggest having your player take a look at the Daggermark Poisoner PrC from Paths of Prestige? If they aren't completely attached to the idea of having a biological poison, than they might get a tad more out of this PrC, as well as saving you the headache of conversion.

He was hoping that the conversion would make the PrC uber powerful and awesome. Now that reality's set in he's not sure what he wants to do anymore.

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