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#4-07 Severing Ties ***SPOILERS***


Pathfinder Society GM Discussion

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Andoran ***** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Fresno aka Sarta

Gaze attacks as per Bestiary 1:

"Each opponent within range of a gaze attack must attempt a saving throw each round at the beginning of his or her turn in the initiative order."

and...

"A creature with a gaze attack can actively gaze as an attack action by choosing a target within range. That opponent must attempt a saving throw but can try to avoid this as described above. Thus, it is possible for an opponent to save against a creature's gaze twice during the same round, once before the opponent's action and once during the creature's turn."

So, with this encounter there is no surprise round -- everyone is surprised. Roll initiative. Have each character in eyesight roll a save on their round. If a character makes their save, describe in detail the strange eyes of the beastie and the weird feeling of all the character's joints locking up before they are able to shrug the effect off. This may be the only warning everyone else gets. At level 1-2, knowledge nature may not be very high.

On the beastie's turn, have it make an active gaze attack.

You may have to simply throw out the rules regarding Knowledge Nature in order to allow the party to know to use the blood. You may also want to fudge the 1d3 roll.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Netopalis wrote:
Situation 3 is correct.

Situation 3 is close, but not quite correct. At the beginning of their first turn they have to make a save and then can choose to avert their eyes or wear a blindfold/shut eyes/turn back, so that on their next turn they may avoid having to make a save per the gaze rules.

When the wall first drops, if you give the basilisks a surprise round and/or they win initiative, a single creature per basilisk may have to make a save if the basilisk targets them (with a standard action).

"A creature with a gaze attack can actively gaze as an attack action by choosing a target within range. That opponent must attempt a saving throw but can try to avoid this as described above. Thus, it is possible for an opponent to save against a creature's gaze twice during the same round, once before the opponent's action and once during the creature's turn."

Qadira ***

Realizing I would only roll ONE initiative roll for all the Basilisks - would any judge out there roll different Init. for each? thus you could get different basilisks going at differant times in the round... and almost insureing that one of them will go before most of the PCs.

Cheliax ***** Owner - Enchanted Grounds

nosig wrote:
Realizing I would only roll ONE initiative roll for all the Basilisks - would any judge out there roll different Init. for each? thus you could get different basilisks going at differant times in the round... and almost insureing that one of them will go before most of the PCs.

I think this is one of those things that gets "fast stepped" by GMs a lot, just like it gets done by players with companions. You *could* (should?) role separately for each creature, every time. Really want to do that for all twenty goblins? I wouldn't, either. I suppose it can be explained away as, "They all ready actions to go on a single turn," but that would technically take a round to set up.

But, yeah, that's a good point, nosig.

Andoran ***** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Fresno aka Sarta

nosig wrote:
Realizing I would only roll ONE initiative roll for all the Basilisks - would any judge out there roll different Init. for each? thus you could get different basilisks going at differant times in the round... and almost insureing that one of them will go before most of the PCs.

I always roll separate initiatives. Otherwise, on a hot roll they all may go before the party. I've seen simultaneous initiatives for NPC's lead to TPK's before.

If the bad guys all go simultaneously and use good tactics it can be disastrous for the party. It's one thing when it is obvious that they are trying to set up flanks. It's another when they all go at the same time and can't be prevented from flanking.

Silver Crusade **

Having GM'd this scenario, I'm pretty disgusted at the combat portion. A DC 13 save or suck ability is truly obscene in a tier 1-2 scenario. And considering it should hit the whole party at least once, and certain characters twice, the odds of PCs getting Stoned are *very* high. 1d3 PCs can come out of it, sure, until the GM rolls a 1.

Then the golem.

Sure, 2 slams at +10. Why not, its not like the PCs will have AC 18-21. So, both are likely to hit each round, meaning its 2d8 + 10 damage. That is nearly instant death for *any* first level character, and into the negs for any 2nd level. And if the PCs have played it smart and not sabotaged the temple yet, the Golem won't activate until the PCs try to enter the chapel, it is likely to get a surprise round. So, charge attack, +12 vs flatfooted AC.

There are few scenarios I will refuse to run again, but this is one of them. Which is a crying shame, because the roleplay at the beginning of the scenario is utterly amazing, and to have it wasted by a terrible dungeon crawl....

Cheliax ****

For the golem, I took a page out of Before the Dawn's book and concentrated the slams on two different people each time. That's enough to cause some serious damage without any level 1s being instantly crushed.

Silver Crusade **

Surprise round, hit the cleric who tried to chip off its head for a Faction Mission. Cleric full withdraws. Golem charges cleric. Goodbye, cleric.

*** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka Yiroep

Kyle Baird wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
Situation 3 is correct.

Situation 3 is close, but not quite correct. At the beginning of their first turn they have to make a save and then can choose to avert their eyes or wear a blindfold/shut eyes/turn back, so that on their next turn they may avoid having to make a save per the gaze rules.

When the wall first drops, if you give the basilisks a surprise round and/or they win initiative, a single creature per basilisk may have to make a save if the basilisk targets them (with a standard action).

"A creature with a gaze attack can actively gaze as an attack action by choosing a target within range. That opponent must attempt a saving throw but can try to avoid this as described above. Thus, it is possible for an opponent to save against a creature's gaze twice during the same round, once before the opponent's action and once during the creature's turn."

Ok, so I'm perfectly clear on this...

1. Beginning of Combat - Wall drops
2. At each character's turn, they save vs. the gaze and cannot choose to avert or anything yet.
3. Monster can do an extra gaze against one person as their attack if they want.
4. Each subsequent character's turn, whatever they wanted to do against the gaze (look at, avert, close eyes, whatever), they can do it.

That right?

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yep. Thr chance of catching a gaze happens at the start of their turn. if they haven't had a chance to avert their gaze, they're forced to make a save.

*** RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

I forgot the temple was lit, and that likely saved the party from a TPK.

As is the fight with the basilisk took forever because of miss chances.

Shadow Lodge ****

Usually I roll separate initiatives, but when there are multiple groups of the same creature in a combat, I'll bunch them together. It moves things along quicker and doesn't bog down fights. Rolling 12 different enemy initiatives can really drag down a fight, as rounds suddenly become very long and drawn out ordeals.

For example, if there are 4 Skeletons, 3 Burning Skeletons, and 2 Skeletal Champions, I'll just roll 3 different initiatives for each group.

But, each GM has their own way of doing it, and there's no right or wrong method to it. Just find what works best for you and stick with that. :)

Silver Crusade **

Alexander_Damocles wrote:


There are few scenarios I will refuse to run again, but this is one of them. Which is a crying shame, because the roleplay at the beginning of the scenario is utterly amazing, and to have it wasted by a terrible dungeon crawl....

Sounds like my reaction to Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment. Great RP, but the combats are just too tough for the level range. I doubt if it's a coincidence that they were both written by the same guy.

Cheliax ****

I happen to like the difficult of both this and Empyreal Enlightenment, and my character spent the last fight of Enlightenment running away from the BBEG back to the portal.

Silver Crusade **

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
I happen to like the difficult of both this and Empyreal Enlightenment, and my character spent the last fight of Enlightenment running away from the BBEG back to the portal.

Yeah, my character did that in ToEE, too... while the rest of the party were already dead on the floor. If it had been a tough fight where we happened to come out on the losing end, we wouldn't have been so frustrated. But it wasn't a fight - it was a one sided slaughter.

That adventure is clearly designed for 6-7 PCs, and you'd better have at least a couple who are well optimized. Any average group of 4 doesn't stand a chance.

*****

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Ugh, I hate Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment being referred to as ToEE. I keep thinking we've released Temple of Elemental Evil for PFS. *drool*

Taldor ***

Kyle Baird wrote:
Stupid smoked goggles. I was the only one in the party who had them and I still got turned to stone. Was adverting my eyes, failed the 50% chance, rolled the save, needed a 5 on the die. Rolled a 4. Used my reroll. Rolled a 1. Stupid goggles and their remaining 2% chance of being turned to stone. :D

My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

Taldor ***

I'm going to run this at a gaming store (in Finland?! Madness!) next Tuesday and I'm anticipating to have 6 players, all around 1-2 level axis.

So many bodies. So much blood.


Deussu wrote:

I'm going to run this at a gaming store (in Finland?! Madness!) next Tuesday and I'm anticipating to have 6 players, all around 1-2 level axis.

So many bodies. So much blood.

At Tier 1-2 I like to imagine the fight against the BBEG like Abbot and Costello Meet the Mummy.

***** RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16 aka Sir_Wulf

While I see the rationale for the basilisk's gaze to be continuously active, some argument could be made for the opposite view. Based on that, if you run this for a low-tier party, I recommend that you assume that the basilisk's gaze doesn't become active until its turn in initiative. That will reduce the chance that your PCs will be petrified before they get any chance to react. Few things stink more than being shut down before you get a chance to do a blasted thing.

When running the guardian against 1st level PCs, I recommend that you roll its attacks separately. If a character drops, it can then forego its second attack in order to move toward another intruder.

Taldor ***

That's something I too had in mind. The basilisk isn't so smart as it would know there's an illusory wall, nor does it have superior scent to smell the PCs through the wall. The basilisk might be "facing away", and thus initiate its gaze attack only when its turn comes up.

**

I've run this twice at Tier 1. Almost had a TPK on the one Basilisk. Before players realized "Close yer eyes!" LOL. Anywho.... First, I give a Kn: nature check. If that succeeds, I tell the players what it can do, and how they can avoid it. The rules say, "Opponents can avoid the need to make the saving throw by not looking at the creature, in one of two ways."

"The foe cannot see the creature at all (also possible to achieve by turning one’s back on the creature or shutting one’s eyes) and does not have to make saving throws against the gaze. However, the creature with the gaze attack gains total concealment against the opponent."

Closing of eyes seems like an immediate action to me. I'd rule that they close their eyes before the creature has a turn.

If they fail the knowledge check (and for all they know it's a gator), then it usually takes that first round of him gazing 1/2 the party. At that point, I remind them of gaze rules, and everyone fights with eyes close. He gets it on his turn... like ya say above, he might be eating for all we know! LOL

A heal or Kn: Nature check usually tells them how to fix it afterwards. Needless to say, I set the DC pretty low on that one.

As far as Golem boy goes...if the party doesn't take the intimidating golem seriously (I really describe him up), then they're going to be in for a little pain. Usually, your armored person needs to do some full round defense, fight defensively, etc. Again, if it's a brand new group of players, I remind them of their defensive options in combat. The players are usually the same speed and/or faster than he is...so strategic withdrawal to a chokepoint is a viable option. Anywho...since Golemboy runs after people who are messin' with the temple, he's usually flyin' solo...and therefore isn't too much of a threat. In the twice I played, he hurt one player and KO'd another. He doesn't usually do enough damage outright to kill players (nor is that really his tactic...if someone goes down, he's going on to the next target).... but, of course, it is possible with a confirmed crit. If its new players, the GM may need to address that situation the way the guidebook suggests....but yeah...an instant death on a character (especially with 10- CON) at 1st level is always a possibility in certain situations.

*** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka Yiroep

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Phillip Willis wrote:
Closing of eyes seems like an immediate action to me. I'd rule that they close their eyes before the creature has a turn.

If closing your eyes was an immediate action, everyone would close their eyes before a color spray.

*** RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Off topic on colour spray as I see/understand it.

Spoiler:
IT is a mind affecting spell, because it's illusion/pattern. So it gets into your brain. (which also explains why it's will and not reflex.) It's also why it will work on creatures already blinded but not creatures who don't have sight at all (like Morlocks).


Phillip Willis wrote:
I give a Kn: nature check.

Not to be picky for picky's sake, but that's a K:Arcana check.

Grand Lodge **

Agreed:
Color spray works on blinded creatures, but not sightless creatures...so closing your eyes would not really work there. I will fully admit, Yiroep, that it's not directly addressed in the rules, and, therefore, subject to GM interpretation.

I will fully admit, Yiroep, that what kind of action 'closing of the eyes' is not directly addressed in the rules, and, therefore, subject to GM interpretation. Personally, I allow it in this case because there is (IMHO) a split moment when a person sees that basilisk and can immediately close his/her eyes before he/she sees the eyes of the basilisk assuming he/she knows of the danger (otherwise, he would never take such a precaution so suddenly).

*** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka Yiroep

It seems there's a very mixed reaction to how gaze attacks work and the PCs' options for it.

**

Macon Bacon, Esquire wrote:
Phillip Willis wrote:
I give a Kn: nature check.
Not to be picky for picky's sake, but that's a K:Arcana check.

I don't have the info for the monster in front of me...I was just going with the suggestion above, as it wasn't really the main point I was addressing in my post. But, gracias.

Grand Lodge **

Yiroep wrote:
It seems there's a very mixed reaction to how gaze attacks work and the PCs' options for it.

Perhaps...but as a GM, when there's wiggle room, I tend to lean on the side of the PCs where a possible TPK is involved. If there's a way to interpret those rules that gives them a chance to not insta-TPK or get hit with a massive "Save or Suck" (as some put it) at level 1, then I'm going to go with that. In 3.5/PF, "Save or Suck" and massive debuff'in spells and abilities have been toned down quite a bit. For example, in 2nd ed, IIRC, Hold person could affect 1-4 people and once held they stayed that way until someone killed them with a single hit. Now, it only affects one guy, they get a save every round, and a CdG deathblow is harder to pull off.

That's why I interpret any gray areas regarding a massive debilitating effect in the player's favor (again, especially at low level). Wait until the beast's first initiative for that first massive roll ... players have a chance to close their eyes based on Kn:Ar check, etc, etc.

**

Alexander_Damocles wrote:

Having GM'd this scenario, I'm pretty disgusted at the combat portion. A DC 13 save or suck ability is truly obscene in a tier 1-2 scenario. And considering it should hit the whole party at least once, and certain characters twice, the odds of PCs getting Stoned are *very* high. 1d3 PCs can come out of it, sure, until the GM rolls a 1.

Then the golem.

Sure, 2 slams at +10. Why not, its not like the PCs will have AC 18-21. So, both are likely to hit each round, meaning its 2d8 + 10 damage. That is nearly instant death for *any* first level character, and into the negs for any 2nd level. And if the PCs have played it smart and not sabotaged the temple yet, the Golem won't activate until the PCs try to enter the chapel, it is likely to get a surprise round. So, charge attack, +12 vs flatfooted AC.

There are few scenarios I will refuse to run again, but this is one of them. Which is a crying shame, because the roleplay at the beginning of the scenario is utterly amazing, and to have it wasted by a terrible dungeon crawl....

When I played it (with the author) at level 1-2 with 5 players we had 3 stoned characters. 2 right off the bat, as it surprised the whole party, and 1 in mid combat. We then killed the basilisk. Other parties just ran past it.

On the golem, I saw the lone statue and got a surprise ride by attack on the golem because it looked like it would come alive and be a golem. I think it died in round 3 maybe and it dropped one person. I saw another 1-2 table playing it, and they had a bit more trouble, but no deaths.

What I didn't like about the mod was having to make characters pay for a break enchantment as their wasn't enough blood for everyone. It should have been included as a temple favor or something, as you were doing favors for temples. Also, you could miss treasure too easily. I got like half gold despite us doing really well in the mod, and cleaning out every room.

However, you need to have at least a couple experienced players, which is equivalent to those 2-3 years of pathfinder training you're supposed to have received. 5 characters wandering haphazardly through the mod would turn out predicatably badly, which is why the society is supposed to give the characters 2-3 years of training so they don't wander blindly through dungeons.

There is a reason PFS isn't the Hardy Boys Take on a Basilisk.

**

Well, this might be one of those occasions where the GM might force a three with a group of new players. If they're experienced, I probalby don't feel as bad (however, that's using my rules of geting them a knowledge check... and then allowing the to close their eyes before that initial attack if successful). As you can see from my post above, I'm more for ruling the gaze attack more conservatively than some...but barring that, I let the chips fall where they may (though I do allow special leniency for new players). Yeah, it easy to miss gold here (espcially with the mug in the Cayden Cailean thing).

Taldor ***

CRobledo wrote:

Something that really helped when I ran Jim's "The Green Market" was having the templated creatures handy. I went ahead and did the same with Severing Ties, which will be run at my even this weekend. Included are all the creatures presented without a statblock, and templates applied.

Templated cratures for Severing Ties

Hopefully they are all correct.

Thanks for the templated creatures. I actually tried really, really hard to find errors. I assume reefclaws, bunyips, tieflings... well, everything except the young basilisk were copied straight from PRD.

Qadira **** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Amsterdam aka Seraphimpunk

ugh. I had the fortune of running a table of this last night for a table of 1st level characters, who had never played any other scenarios with their characters.

everything was going fine until they went below the tattoo parlor.

round 1: petrified 3 first level characters.
round 3: the fighter that had managed to survive the DC 13 fortitude saves on his turn and Gaze actions on the basilisk's turn finally failed.

in the 2 minutes it took the basilisk to break down the cage at Str 12 ( young ), the remaining 2 characters tried dragging one of the Statues, er, their companions, up the stairs. One gave up, went to the docks and went home. The other waited until the Basilisk wandered off and went back in to the hidden den solo and was brought to Staggered by one hit of the Guardian. He fled into the den and handed over the objects and asked the fussy old attendant to call off the guardian.

so two survived a near TPK. No one got any prestige, and they got about half gold because they couldn't complete the mission, kill the basilisk themselves, or delve in for any more treasure. They're new characters, so they don't have prestige or gold to afford a Stone To Flesh.

This might be a great encounter for a 3-7 adventure. but for a game with 1st-5th level characters, where there can be a party of all fresh 1st level characters, its godawful. There's never even any clues, like oh the lassallan's like to keep a menagerie of odd creatures, Jenk has these weird smoky goggles on the corner of his desk, etc.

never running this game again. its just too cruel.

Taldor **** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

Did you draw the symbol on the floor? I've ran this twice, and both parties were sure that the symbol was trapped.

Qadira ***

Seraphimpunk wrote:

ugh. I had the fortune of running a table of this last night for a table of 1st level characters, who had never played any other scenarios with their characters.

everything was going fine until they went below the tattoo parlor.

round 1: petrified 3 first level characters.
round 3: the fighter that had managed to survive the DC 13 fortitude saves on his turn and Gaze actions on the basilisk's turn finally failed.

in the 2 minutes it took the basilisk to break down the cage at Str 12 ( young ), the remaining 2 characters tried dragging one of the Statues, er, their companions, up the stairs. One gave up, went to the docks and went home. The other waited until the Basilisk wandered off and went back in to the hidden den solo and was brought to Staggered by one hit of the Guardian. He fled into the den and handed over the objects and asked the fussy old attendant to call off the guardian.

so two survived a near TPK. No one got any prestige, and they got about half gold because they couldn't complete the mission, kill the basilisk themselves, or delve in for any more treasure. They're new characters, so they don't have prestige or gold to afford a Stone To Flesh.

This might be a great encounter for a 3-7 adventure. but for a game with 1st-5th level characters, where there can be a party of all fresh 1st level characters, its godawful. There's never even any clues, like oh the lassallan's like to keep a menagerie of odd creatures, Jenk has these weird smoky goggles on the corner of his desk, etc.

never running this game again. its just too cruel.

If they are all 1st levels, why not ask to switch the adventure to a First Steps? (this is just possibly a silly question - realize that in my area games are normally not picked until after the table forms, so switching adventures would have been very easy).

Taldor ***

Uugh, a monster post is incoming. In other words, a game report.

I ran this scenario at a game store, but only two people showed up. The other was a player who recently started playing PFS, and the other was the Venture-Captain of Finland. We had to pull an ex-PFS player to join, although he had to be absent most of the time. Running the game store and such.

Party line-up:
Rhykevance, Dwarf Fighter 1/Wizard 1
Hung, Dwarf Monk 2
1st-level Valeros and 1st-level Kyra

So they start out pretty normally. A briefing, a few questions and then it's off. They fail most of the knowledge rolls miserably, but learn of Aspis' doings in Riddleport.

They get to the Barracude Cartage and don't have their badges out. They find Jenk and the pregen Kyra was pretending to be Thistel. IIRC Kyra rolled a 1 on the bluff check. Jenk was not pleased to meet the group. They went on to business as normal. I was a little back because Jenk's speech isn't in a 'text box'. Thought it should be. Afterwards they head out and begin from the Besmara's Fish Bowl.

And combat ensues. The fight would have been very easy even for this group, but the rolls were historically bad. I'm not exaggerating... maybe one in ten of the rolls were 1s, and seven in ten were below 5. It was so sad it was hilarious. Fortunately the reefclaws are wussies with their +2 attack and didn't hit a thing either.

After that was done with, the Josef & kids encounter was quickly passed. None of the PCs were from the Qadira faction, so they missed the backstory and such. I tried to make the man praise Aspis for the rescue, but they never told him they were from Aspis. When the man inquired "Can you tell me who you are?" "No", replied Rhykevance.

Next up was the brothel-temple. They hear Shorafa's offer, and don't like it. She's giving the dagger, and then Rhykevance tells her what a dick Vidrin Jenk is. Shorafa is puzzled by this statement, coming from an Aspis agent. And since she's a high priestess of Calistria, I suspect all attempts to lie would be seen through. She tells them about the dagger's properties and demands that it be given as a gift to Jenk.

Moving on! In the Publican House they don't tell about being from Aspis until they learn the mug is a prize in the competition. Fortunately they win the mug and everything is jolly.

Now comes the evil dungeon of death & doom. Under the tattoo parlor they send Valeros alone to scout ahead. Trap, and basilisk. It took quite a while to have them do anything to the basilisk. I didn't make it do other than gaze attacks. Amazingly both Valeros and Hung eventually failed their saves. Hung even had a +16 bonus on fortitude saves against gaze, thanks to smoked goggles. But, alas, the goggles do nothing. A 1 from the die, and Hung is turned to stone.

After rounds of blind-fighting the basilisk Rhykevance and Kyra regroup and heal, and pursue to attack the basilisk again. The basilisk gets bored of gazing blind targets, and bursts from the cage and goes into melee. After the killing blow to the basilisk, Rhykevance applies the blood from the basilisk on Hung. And Hung only. I rolled a 1 on the 1d3 roll. Valeros was thus left outside to "guard" the tattoo parlor.

They continued onwards with only 3 PCs. I skipped the optional encounter, since I was on a tight 4-hour schedule. They headed to the barracks. Two PCs looks for traps, but don't scan the room with detect magic. Blam, Fire Trap. And so we burn more charges from the wand of CLW. At the back they discover the mechanism and easily determine the use and exact nature of the pipe, water, and the wand. They were meant to sabotage, so they punch holes to the pipe, letting the sewage pour in.

This, of course, awakens the golem.

In the tight corridor they see it coming. Oh boy. It starts whacking them one by one. Eventually only Kyra was left standing. She was operated by Jukka, the Venture-Captain. Kyra had a speed of 30ft, and the golem had a speed of 20ft. The storage rooms were just big enough to always get around the corner to avoid a charge attack. Think of Benny Hill. Once per a circle Kyra gave healing to the two dwarves, who then went hiding around the corners. Eventually Kyra lead the golem to a "trap". Hung and Rhykevance were flanking the golem, and started pounding it ...

... but they failed. The damage output of the golem was just waaaay too much. They all fell unconscious, but stabilized on their own. This resulted in a quick core rulebook research.

One hour later, they all rolled whether they wake up. Rhykevance made it alone. The place was knee-deep in sewage and smelt attrocious. He pulled his friends out of there, cautiously, and slapped Kyra awake (I gave another constitution check), who then healed the group. They took what they found, left a note on the table, the 'gifts', and all the Aspis badges.

So, miraculously they managed to survive. I ruled that the golem would not pursue the group once all of them were dropped. The golem had no intelligence so it didn't perform coup de graces, instead returned to its original position.

Now, what I think about this scenario? First, the golem is way too tough. It's doable, but very very tough. This thing alone robs the fifth star in my review. I really like the NPCs and the roleplaying, but I still keep wondering why the safe house is such a death trap. From a player viewpoint the basilisk, the tieflings and such don't make much sense.

Oh, and I'd like to know how Ron was visioning how's the place AFTER one hour. Are the cultists gone or still attending to their ceremony? The sewage probably doesn't make the place toxic or lethal, but just uninhabitable and possibly contract diseases. How about that gas? Should it kill?

Indeed the wealth is hard to accumulate. Many PCs willingly give the gifts to the cultists, and it sucks that winning two prizes out of three gives absolutely nothing! That's just bull. According to my calculations that 250gp chalice gives about 20gp to each player.

** Contributor

Deussu wrote:
I'd like to know how Ron was visioning how's the place AFTER one hour. Are the cultists gone or still attending to their ceremony? The sewage probably doesn't make the place toxic or lethal, but just uninhabitable and possibly contract diseases. How about that gas? Should it kill?

Honestly, I didn't expect any PCs to be around after an hour! The cultists may still be entranced in their ritual, so I think they way you judged things is quite reasonable. Waking up knee-deep in sewage and smelling atrocious is just fine (and kind of hilarious)--it also lets the PCs know definitively that they'd successfully sabotaged the place. I might've thrown in a Fort save for filth fever if this had happened at my table.

Deussu wrote:
So, miraculously they managed to survive.

Sounds like a good result in the end!

**

Netopalis wrote:
Did you draw the symbol on the floor? I've ran this twice, and both parties were sure that the symbol was trapped.

We did too. We looked at the symbol and it all seemed fine. Until we found the art objects, errr...party members.

Taldor ***

Furious Kender wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
Did you draw the symbol on the floor? I've ran this twice, and both parties were sure that the symbol was trapped.
We did too. We looked at the symbol and it all seemed fine. Until we found the art objects, errr...party members.

I thought the symbol was just a GM aid designating the area of the trap.

Taldor **** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

Deussu wrote:
Furious Kender wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
Did you draw the symbol on the floor? I've ran this twice, and both parties were sure that the symbol was trapped.
We did too. We looked at the symbol and it all seemed fine. Until we found the art objects, errr...party members.
I thought the symbol was just a GM aid designating the area of the trap.

No, the GM aids are usually much more geometric, marked with a letter or an X or something. Since this is an intricate floor pattern, I've been drawing it on my maps - I've seen the other GMs running this do that as well. It makes avoiding getting turned into stone substantially easier.

Kender: Both groups, when they have realized that it's trapped and that they can't disable it, just sent one person onto the mark. That's why I asked.

*** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka Yiroep

Netopalis wrote:
Deussu wrote:
Furious Kender wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
Did you draw the symbol on the floor? I've ran this twice, and both parties were sure that the symbol was trapped.
We did too. We looked at the symbol and it all seemed fine. Until we found the art objects, errr...party members.
I thought the symbol was just a GM aid designating the area of the trap.

No, the GM aids are usually much more geometric, marked with a letter or an X or something. Since this is an intricate floor pattern, I've been drawing it on my maps - I've seen the other GMs running this do that as well. It makes avoiding getting turned into stone substantially easier.

Kender: Both groups, when they have realized that it's trapped and that they can't disable it, just sent one person onto the mark. That's why I asked.

Hrm, didn't even think about this. Incidentally, as further proof, when you copy the picture from the PDF, the symbol is still there. Usually, traps and other "GM stuff" doesn't show up when you do that.

**

Netopalis wrote:
Deussu wrote:
Furious Kender wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
Did you draw the symbol on the floor? I've ran this twice, and both parties were sure that the symbol was trapped.
We did too. We looked at the symbol and it all seemed fine. Until we found the art objects, errr...party members.
I thought the symbol was just a GM aid designating the area of the trap.

No, the GM aids are usually much more geometric, marked with a letter or an X or something. Since this is an intricate floor pattern, I've been drawing it on my maps - I've seen the other GMs running this do that as well. It makes avoiding getting turned into stone substantially easier.

Kender: Both groups, when they have realized that it's trapped and that they can't disable it, just sent one person onto the mark. That's why I asked.

Our rogue didn't find anything.

Taldor ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Philadelphia aka Iammars

Yiroep wrote:
Hrm, didn't even think about this. Incidentally, as further proof, when you copy the picture from the PDF, the symbol is still there. Usually, traps and other "GM stuff" doesn't show up when you do that.

Careful with that. They added a new mapper near the end of season 3 who has been drawing the secret doors into maps again. There was a bunch where I needed to photoshop them out to make them usable for online. (Or be creative with my vision-blocking layers)

Shadow Lodge *

I'm currently playing this as a PbP and I gotta say, I'm not really enjoying this scenario at all. So far, the RP, isn't that great, (for me exceptionally focused on why would I even be interested in doing this and trying really hard to think of a way that doesn't rob me of my divine powers, but doesn't screw over the other players). It seems, so far, like a great scenario for CN rogues, but really seems to be designed only to spotlight a few character types so far. I'm assuming approx 1/2 done. I'm mostly just ranting, but I'm also playing an Andoran character, and even that faction mission was a WTF moment, seriously making me (ooc) concider dropping the faction. I'm sorry to say, but so far anyway, this is the worst scenario I've ever played, and I really have no desire to ever DM it either.

I find it interesting that it was written by the same person that did Tempe of Empyreal Enlightenment, (not ToEE, I absolutely agree), as that was the other scenario I really didn't like so much.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Lieutenant, Australia—Melbourne aka KestlerGunner

If you're currently *playing* the scenario then WHY are you in the GM's Spoiler thread for *running* the game?

Shadow Lodge *

Originally, I was planning on also running it. I have the scenario, though I haven't read it.

Taldor **** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

If you haven't finished the scenario yet and you're not looking at running it now, wait until the PbP is over to continue reading this thread.

Shadow Lodge *

I read this thread a while ago before I played, looking for tips and issues to look out for, intending to run it. That's not an issue for me, because I don't know when or where a lot of these spoilers are, and I could look if I wanted to. When I'm done playing, I'll take a look and see, if I had a different experience, but that's not really the point.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Lieutenant, Australia—Melbourne aka KestlerGunner

The point is that you're cheating :/

Andoran

I actually played through this one not long ago; our group didn't actually have *too* much trouble with it. My Bard did get turned to stone, but he's a halfling so there was more than enough blood to get him fixed up. :P

We actually only did the first couple encounters in the Lissalan safehouse; after sabatoging the drainage pipe, killing their pet basilisks, and generally wrecking up the place some, we figured we'd just leave the badges and go. The way we figured it, we'd done enough to get the Lissalans angry at the Aspis, and at that point if we continued to attack them we'd only be weakening our (unwitting) allies.

All in all, it was a ton of fun. I think my favorite part was working with the other players to come up with creative ways to offend the Lissalans, before we realized that our delivery run was going to turn into a fight.

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