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Class abilities are NOT feats!!!


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've seen it happen again and again and again and again on these boards: People referring to class abilities, racial abilities, traits, and essentially anything else that is not a feat, as a feat.

STOP IT ALREADY!

It's annoying to veterans like myself and confusing to newcomers as well.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Boy, you're not kidding. Can I take Wizard Spellcasting as a feat? Yes, please! I'll take two - throw the cleric spells with it.

I haven't seen it too much on the forums, it's a fair point. I think the precedent probably began with Rouge Talents you could take feats with (and subsequent taking a ninja trick with a rouge trick you could take with a feat. Ugh) and so forth.

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Feats are not class features!


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Feats are not class features!

But bonus feats are. (Getting bonus feats, not the feats themselves.)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Feats are not class features!

Unless you're a fighter. :P


1 person marked this as a favorite.

They do? Never noticed that.

Spoiler:
Not that I think that being annoyed by calling class abilities feats is wrong. I'd be vexed by such as well. I just cant recall seeing such error. I read less rule section threads lately, however.


Sorcerer class abilities are feats, too!


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I've seen it happen again and again and again and again on these boards: People saying "ALREADY!" after a phrase that doesn't warrant it. It makes no sense.

It's annoying to English-speakers like myself and confusing to those learning English as well.

:P :P :P

Erm, what was the question?

:)

Silver Crusade

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

Levels are not levels!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
MacFetus wrote:

I've seen it happen again and again and again and again on these boards: People saying "ALREADY!" after a phrase that doesn't warrant it. It makes no sense.

It's annoying to English-speakers like myself and confusing to those learning English as well.

:P :P :P

Erm, what was the question?

:)

The intensifier use of "already" is in the dictionary. That's the funny thing about English words: they often have multiple definitions.

Osirion

I've never seen this happen


I've never seen this happen. Though I had SUCH a headache trying to explain to one set of new players that just because your favored class can give you one additional hp or skill point, that does NOT mean you can dump all of one into the other.


People refer to class features as "feats"?

Or are people just saying certain class features are the equivalent of feats? Such as the Samurai's proficiency with all Martial Weapons AND Katanas being the equivalent of "Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana" for using them one handed.

Shadow Lodge

I haven't seen this either, aside from TheRonin's example with weapon proficiency. But I can see how that might be confusing.

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
I've never seen this happen. Though I had SUCH a headache trying to explain to one set of new players that just because your favored class can give you one additional hp or skill point, that does NOT mean you can dump all of one into the other.

You mean they wanted to play, for example, a barbarian with d12+4+Int HP/level and no skills?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If I come across any more instances, I will be sure to post them here. I see it no less than once a week.

Shadow Lodge

I blame NWN coding class abilities as feats.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Do you mean kind of like this?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I mean like someone saying "Should I multiclass into barbarian to gain the rage feat?"

Or

"How does the hide in plain sight feat work?"

Quite simply, people who are calling non-feats feats.

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I would like to see these posts. I agree they should be corrected.


You have to remember that Feat was short for Feature.

There for a Class Feature is also a Class Feat.

NOTE: I learned from veterans who played Fantasy RPGs that predate D&D by around 10 years.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

That's the first I've heard of that, Fayth. I've always understood "feat" to mean "a noteworthy or extraordinary act or achievement, usually displaying boldness, skill, etc."

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

'Feat' is a valid abbreviation of 'feature'.


The reason why it was shortened in the older games was simply to save Space and Money.

And that definition fits what most older games had for class feat(ure)s.

Heck, one games "Fighter" was able to spend their full turn to deal 10x damage to a single enemy after they gained their 5th "Milestone" (This games levels).


I have to say I've never seen anyone do this, so I'm not sure it's such a problem as you make it sound.


what game besides chainmail predates and by 10 years?

Qadira

Pendagast wrote:
what game besides chainmail predates and by 10 years?

Nothing. Everything before that were tabletop wargames.

I've also never found any fantasy games that used the word "features" as a game mechanic, or heard of feats as a short form of the word.


im with you shadow. There isnt a game that had veterans playing it that predated DnD by Ten years. Especially one that had "Feats" or "Features".

Chainmail was a predecessor of DnD (sort of and slightly) played by Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax, and VERY few other people. It was mainly a miniature game, role playing individuals rather than playing units was a new idea from Dave and certainly didnt predate DnD by a decade.

Is there someone who is confused as to there being a fantasy RPG from the 1960s?


Weirdo wrote:

I haven't seen this either, aside from TheRonin's example with weapon proficiency. But I can see how that might be confusing.

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
I've never seen this happen. Though I had SUCH a headache trying to explain to one set of new players that just because your favored class can give you one additional hp or skill point, that does NOT mean you can dump all of one into the other.
You mean they wanted to play, for example, a barbarian with d12+4+Int HP/level and no skills?

Actually one of them wanted to trade 3 hp from their 1st level fighter for more skill points


danielc wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
NOTE: I learned from veterans who played Fantasy RPGs that predate D&D by around 10 years.
ok, I just have to ask: What Fantasy RPGs predated D&D by about 10 years?

hah we were already talking about that. The answer is none.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Pendagast wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
NOTE: I learned from veterans who played Fantasy RPGs that predate D&D by around 10 years.
what game besides chainmail predates and by 10 years?

I agree, I would like to learn what Fantay RPGs predate D&D by almost 10 years? D&D was first published in 1974 so these games were published in around 1964?


"We all lived in a yellow submarine" an exciting subaquatic RPG where stoners explore atlantis?

Hmm no wonder we've never heard of the game.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

I'm not even sure there's a video game that predates 3.5 by ten years. Even Ultima, etc, as MMORPG's were mid-90's. Yeah, there were a few video games in the 80's, but not many...computer tech just wasn't that advanced, and most games were sideways scrollers or almost text based.

==Aelryinth


Okay, look, the character sheet I use doesn't have a "Class Features" section, it just has "Feats" and "Special Abilities".

The Special Abilities tab is used for my traits and elaborating on complex abilities, so everything else is a Feat.

Don't be mad at me please.

Aelryinth wrote:

I'm not even sure there's a video game that predates 3.5 by ten years. Even Ultima, etc, as MMORPG's were mid-90's. Yeah, there were a few video games in the 80's, but not many...computer tech just wasn't that advanced, and most games were sideways scrollers or almost text based.

==Aelryinth

Lots of games came out before 1993 Aelryinth.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Between this thread and the "This will show those fools who use the fighter class to make generic faceless personality-less PC-substitute nonpeople on legs" thread, it seems like RavingDork has declared war on strawmen who don't exist.


Rynjin wrote:

Okay, look, the character sheet I use doesn't have a "Class Features" section, it just has "Feats" and "Special Abilities".

The Special Abilities tab is used for my traits and elaborating on complex abilities, so everything else is a Feat.

Don't be mad at me please.

Aelryinth wrote:

I'm not even sure there's a video game that predates 3.5 by ten years. Even Ultima, etc, as MMORPG's were mid-90's. Yeah, there were a few video games in the 80's, but not many...computer tech just wasn't that advanced, and most games were sideways scrollers or almost text based.

==Aelryinth

Lots of games came out before 1993 Aelryinth.

History of video games.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Maps Subscriber
Aelryinth wrote:

I'm not even sure there's a video game that predates 3.5 by ten years. Even Ultima, etc, as MMORPG's were mid-90's. Yeah, there were a few video games in the 80's, but not many...computer tech just wasn't that advanced, and most games were sideways scrollers or almost text based.

==Aelryinth

Wizardry, Ultima, Bard's Tale, Legend of Zelda, Final Fantasy? Off the top of my head, all pre-86 or 87-ish


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
bigkilla wrote:
Do you mean kind of like this?

Great link bigkilla! Had a lot of fun reading that thread. A very interesting debate on when is a feat a feat or not a feat or kinda a feat for the purposes of taking feats. I think.

Fabulous... Always love it when bbt says stuff like bat$&!t crazy...

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Roberta Yang wrote:
Between this thread and the "This will show those fools who use the fighter class to make generic faceless personality-less PC-substitute nonpeople on legs" thread, it seems like RavingDork has declared war on strawmen who don't exist.

Agreed and seconded. Imo he's getting worse. i'm all for debating on a forum. Yet RD is starting to come across as a gaming version of a tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist. What's next RD is going to declare war on those who call soft drinks soda pop or something.


Knights of Blackforest.

Wizardcraft.

Renaissance.

These all are classified as RPGs.

Because a player only controlled an individual they built using the rules. not a unit or army.

Renaissance is from the 40s and is only available in French, Spanish, German, and Polish.

NOTE: These are European. Chainmail was one of the few easily obtained by Americans.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Feegle wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

I'm not even sure there's a video game that predates 3.5 by ten years. Even Ultima, etc, as MMORPG's were mid-90's. Yeah, there were a few video games in the 80's, but not many...computer tech just wasn't that advanced, and most games were sideways scrollers or almost text based.

==Aelryinth

Wizardry, Ultima, Bard's Tale, Legend of Zelda, Final Fantasy? Off the top of my head, all pre-86 or 87-ish

Like I said...sideways scrollers or heavily text based. I played most of those. Many have strong D&D ancestry showing. Animation compared to nowadays are childish. And yes, I owned an Atari, too.

I should have noted that I was referring to more open architecture sorts of things that you find in MMO's and some of the bigger games nowadays.

The phrasing should have been "I'm not sure there's a relevant video game he's referring to that predated 3.5 by 10 years..." :)

===Aelryinth

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Aelryinth wrote:
And yes, I owned an Atari, too.

What model, and carts or 5 inch floppies?


Where did Video Games come from?

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

They grow on video game trees.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
They grow on video game trees.

Only on Candy Mountain.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
And yes, I owned an Atari, too.
What model, and carts or 5 inch floppies?

Bah! Floppies?! No such newfangled tech! I still have my tapes for Atari 130 XE!

Shadow Lodge

bigkilla wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
They grow on video game trees.
Only on Candy Mountain.

They must be carefully tended and picked at just the right time, else you get a game that spoiled on the vine, or is still too green to enjoy.


TOZ wrote:


They must be carefully tended and picked at just the right time, else you get a game that spoiled on the vine, or is still too green to enjoy.

I could say something on that... but...

Shadow Lodge

bigkilla wrote:
Do you mean kind of like this?

That's what TheRonin mentioned about people arguing that getting proficiency with a weapon as a class (or racial) feature is equivalent to having the relevant weapon proficiency feat, since in this particular case the effect of the feat and the class ability is identical. That's different from mixing up feats and class abilities in general.


Anyone remember this game from 1985 for the Comadore 64 Phantasie?


Jodokai wrote:
Anyone remember this game from 1985 for the Comadore 64 Phantasie?

Sounds familiar...

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