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Application breakdown - version 2. I am trying to add links to make checking the competition out easier. If you do not have one, post a comment and I will try to add it after the close tomorrow. (I have RL work tomorrow morning, so no final list until afternoon.) Melee
Divine
Skill
Arcane
Interest:
DM Jelani wrote: Heh, cool. I'll switch Grafelda over to an Aasimar as soon as I get a chance. Gonna post with this alias from now so that I don't go over ten posts with the other. That way if I don't get picked I can recycle the alias. I have started not even posting with the actual alias so that I can delete it if necessary. Just post a link to the alias.
Focus: Wis
Str:1d10 + 7 ⇒ (10) + 7 = 17
Here is a second submission from Runner188. You had said earlier you didn't mind a second one. If that has changed, then I'll submit Jon in place of Fetrin. I like this character better.
Well, let's give it a late entrance try(mind you, English is not my native language, and while I do try to keep it civil and mistake-free, either Varsuvius or typo-monster splashes might occur :( ) Lanliss Windhowl, LE Elf Alchemist(mindchemist archetype) Stats : 25 point-buy:
STR 10(0) DEX 15(7)+2 racial= 17 CON 14(5)-2 racial= 12 INT 18(17)+2 racial= 20 WIS 10(0) CHA 7(-4) Crime:
High Treason
You have willfully worked to bring down the current Monarch of Talingarde -- the beloved King Markadian V called the Brave of House Darius. To be successfully tried for High Treason you have done more than merely dislike the king, you did something tangible to undermine his rule. Alas, that you failed at your plot and are now headed to Branderscar Prison. Treason is the only crime that is still punished by the gruesome ritual of being drawn and quartered. Your stay at Branderscar will be brief. Punishment: Death by drawing and quartering Benefit: You receive a +1 trait bonus to Will saves. Backstory:
Although not born to the city of Talingarde, Lanliss spent most of his time in the city. At the tender age of 8, he witnessed his parents getting arrested, trialed for trying to escape and swiftly executed by an overzealous patrol led by a human paladin of Mitra. His distrust of humans from that moment onward has spurred him into becoming a reclusive sort of guy no one calls to the party. Some 20 years later, he happened to catch a glimpse of the paladin that was leading that fateful patrol, now a middle-aged respectable member of society. At that time he swore on his soul he'd concoct a poison so vile, it would carry on through generations, providing excruciating pain and endless torture to the paladin's offspring. All that was left was finding out exactly WHO was that paladin and how would he be able to reach him. A logical place to search was in fact, the town hall, for it was presumably easier to gain access to than the paladin chapter house. After scouting out the layout of the surrounding alleys, patrol routes and town hall corridors(to the best of his abilities), he, having hired a rogue to open the lock on a service door, entered the town hall. Lanliss was studying the records in one of the record rooms for a good 30 minutes when a sudden cough near the door startled him enough to tilt the lantern he had over and spill oil on some shelves, igniting them into a soon to be raging devastating fire. He quickly ran out of the room, tossing a couple of his bombs at the guardsmen who were readying to enter, and them some more on doors he encountered while he was running towards his planned exit, only to be stopped by backup and taken to jail. The next day, his plan for revenge stalled, his most promising source of information gone, he was judged for burning 2 record rooms full of history of elder citizens of the city and by decree of the judge, sentenced to be quartered shortly. Stats:
Initiative +3(0 natural,+3 dex)
Senses low-light vision, Perception +6 Speed 30 ft Armor AC=13(10+3 dex), Touch=13(10+3 dex), Flat-footed=10 Hit-points 7/7 Saves Fort= 2(base)+ 1(con) = 3 Reflex= 2(base) + 3(dex)= 5 Will= 0(base)+ 1(trait) = 1 +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells and effects Combat:
BAB 0 ; CMB 0; CMD 13 Melee +0 Ranged +3 Skills:
4+ 5(Int)=9
Appraise 9(1 rank + 3 Class + 5 Int) Disable device 7(1 rank+ 3 Class+ 3 Dex) Knowledge Arcana 9(1 rank + 3 Class + 5 Int) Knowledge Local 6(1 rank + 5 Int) Knowledge Nobility 6(1 rank + 5 Int) Knowledge Nature 9(1 rank + 3 Class + 5 Int) Knowledge Religion 6(1 rank + 5 Int) Perception 6(1 rank + 3 Class + 2 racial) Spellcraft 9(1 rank + 3 Class + 5 Int)
Douglas Muir 406 wrote: Kate, the character concept sounds fine. The process of joining is, well, competitive -- everyone posts their draft characters and backgrounds, I pick the ones that look most interesting / playable / fun. Right now there are about 22 people competing for 5 spaces. If you want a place, take a shot -- write up a character and post it. Cуровую зиму pronounced Surovuyu Zimu which means Bitter Winter in Russian. Prelude to adventure: Spoiler:
The black passageways deep underneath the city streets were lit by a single torch that was well past half spent and began waver in the darkness. The filthy torch bearer's steps looked less unsure to Surovuyu. "Are you sure this is the way Weross? You seem ... Lost." She half admonished her filthy wererat guide. From ten paces in front of her the torchbearer twitched his long furred nose and sniffed the stale air, "Yessss, yesss my lady, Weross knows these tunnels well. We are close now, yesss, close." The pair travelled further down the underground corridors, and as nearly another half hour passed with no clear sign of what Surovuyo had sought, bowel entrance to the prison she was hoping to infiltrate. Her patience had worn thin. "Weross we have clearly travelled long enough to be well under the prison, if not passed it. We entered close enough, are you certain of your steps? I have paid you well in coin, I pray, for your sake, that you know what you are doing." Even as she asked the question, unseen by her guide, Surovuyo made intricate hand gestures and incanted arcane words in a whisper. "And my lady is quite generousss with her coin, but otherssss have even been more generous with Weross in making sure my lady does not draw breath on the surface again. " and with that the Wererat dropped the nearly spent torch to the ground and kicked dust into the embers and plunged them in a deep darkness. In a fluid motion the Wererat threw a poisoned dagger towards Surovuyo, the blade flying in a straight line for her chest ... Only to be deflected by the unseen Shield she had invoked a moment earlier. In the darkness the Wererat stood in brief disbelief, with his dark vision he followed the woman's movement, she was backing up, her hands moving in further intricate patterns and a long chant coming from her lips. How could this human see in the dark?! He drew a rusted curved blade and licked it, make a shrill squeek of defiance and charged the woman. Again to his amazement the woman side stepped his assault, and before he could begin to shift his movement and reorient himself for another lunge magical Sleep came over him. The Wererat fell to the ground, forced senseless by the Aasimar woman who was not hindered by the darkness. Weross, for the briefest of moments awoke, as blood slipped through his mouth, nose, and the long gash that rung his neck. The last thing he saw was a magical light being cast upon a silvered dagger in the hand of Surovuyo. "I guess I'm going to have to do this the hard way then." Surovuyo said to no one in particular as she began her trek back to the streets above. For GM Douglas M Spoiler:
Epilogue: Because of the events above, Cуровую зиму will have to commit a crime just to force the issue and get into the jail. The premise behind this is she want to make contact with the other PC(S), for whatever reason you deem fit (as best that can be run with the campaign), free them, thus making them in debt to her.
Cуровую зиму "Surovuyu Zimu" (Bitter Winter)
25 point buy Spoiler:
STR 8 (-1)
Peri-blodded Aasimar get a a +2 to INT and +2 to CHA (already factored in the scores) Back story please see the above post Stats: Spoiler:
Initiative +2 (0 natural,+2 dex)
Saves
Alignment: Neutral Evil (Lawful tendencies)
HP : 9
Scores: STR 8 (-1)
Standard Racial Traits Ability Score Racial Traits: Aasimars are insightful, confident, and personable. They gain +2 Intelligence and +2 Charisma.
Defense Racial Traits Celestial Resistance: Aasimars have acid resistance 5, cold resistance 5, and electricity resistance 5.
Skilled: Aasimar have a +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Perception checks.
Spell-Like Ability (Sp): Aasimars can use daylight once per day as a spell-like ability (caster level equal to the aasimar's class level).
Combat Spoiler:
BAB 0 ; CMB 0; CMD 12
Skills: Spoiler:
Appraise 8
Equipment:
Spoiler:
Weapons Silver Dagger
Clothing Travelers Outfit
Misc. Backpack
Crime: Getting caught was of course. part of the plan. Spoiler:
Fraud (Several offenses)
Punishment: Life at hard labor in the salt mines Benefit: You receive a +2 trait bonus to Bluff checks and Bluff is always a class kill for you. 2nd Trait: Spoiler:
Either Traits: Warrior of Old or Magical Lineage or Wayang Spell Hunter It's now 7:52 AM off to bed I go!
Fiendish Heritage Rolls + Q for GM:
1d100 ⇒ 40
GM with the 100 roll dos that mean Rosa gets Two Variant Tiefling Abilities?
Okay, everyone -- it's 10 am EDT, and submissions are now CLOSED. Within the next hour, I'll post the list of finalists. Doug M.
Delayed a bit -- will be up in the next 30 minutes. Doug M.
Okay. After reviewing all thirty-three (!) entries, here are the ten finalists. Melee Edmin Al’roth - Kozaric - Human - Cavalier
Arcane Grafelda Moroe -- DM Jelani -- Aasimar Witch
Divine Dren - terok - Human - Oracle of the Dark Tapestry
Skill Bernald Jehannum - tonyz - Human - Bard
What did I judge on? First and foremost, the background section. I was looking for good writing, cool ideas, and the ability to think ahead. I saw some common problems with the backgrounds. Here are two: characters who were cool by themselves, but who would be hard to integrate into a party, and characters who were over-the-top badass. Second, integration of crunch and fluff. To give a specific example, Judge Tohram Quasangi is a Summoner whose eidolon is his "shadow". He describes it as a shadowy, lurking force that he does not, himself, fully understand. Looking at his sheet, I saw that he'd spent an evolution point to give his eidolon +8 Stealth. I like that. Third, thread participation. Consider it from the DM's POV. You have one guy who makes a submission and then never shows up again, and another guy who makes a submission and then hangs around to comment and kibitz. At a meta level, the second guy is signaling "I am interested in your campaign" and "I will be an enthusiastic and engaged participant". Now what? How do we decide among these ten? I'll tell you in just a moment... Doug M
For the final round, I'd like to see a short submission from each candidate. Please complete the following two phrases: "[My character]'s core belief is..." Give one or two core beliefs that define the character. and If [my character] has a redeeming quality, it is..." Is there any good in you? Possibly not! But if there is, what is it? Here are some examples. "Sir Tomas' core belief is that society should be ordered with the strong on top. He is strong, so it is his duty and destiny to lead. If Sir Tomas has a redeeming quality, it is his strong sense of personal honor; though arrogant and cruel, Tomas will never break his word or betray a true comrade." "Richard believes that he should have the good life. Wealth, women, fame... he /deserves/ those things. He also believes that everyone is out for himself. Honor and loyalty are just lies for suckers. If he has a redeeming attribute, it's his sentimentality... Richard is actually kind to children and animals, though he'd rather die than admit it." "Bitter and twisted, Jelena believes that life is pain. The universe hurts us, and we hurt each other. Life is a sick little game we play to distract us from that truth. Yet she is not entirely evil; she loves art and (especially) music, and will be reluctant to harm a musician or damage a work of art. And her sadism and self-loathing are occasionally interrupted by strange brief moments of compassion." "Zark's core belief is that life is a relentless struggle for survival and dominance. Brutal, sadistic and ruthless, Zark has no redeeming qualities whatsoever." You get the idea. Keep it short -- no more than a few sentences. Final Judgment will arrive at 12 pm EDT tomorrow. You have just under 24 hours. good luck to all, Doug M.
Bref's core belief is that life and leadership is like a snake, continually shedding the top layer to make way for a fresher one. The idea of hereditary succession is folly. If Bref has one redeeming quality it is that he recognizes that he too falls into this. Once he has attained leadership he must be vigilant of lose it all again. He is cocky and arrogant, but he is a realist,
Post here. I think this cuts both ways: yes, you might get copying or one upmanship, but OTOH the early responders can get their concepts out there before anyone else is. "Harry believes that he should have the good life. Wealth, women... oh dang, Richard just posted that an hour ago." I'd say it's a wash. Also, I think others will be interested to read what you write! Doug M.
This is just my opinion and I dont want to start a flame war. Nor am I bitter about not being picked, I understand pbps are hard to get in to because competition is so fierce. In fact I feel like the other skilled characters were better submissions than mine so its fair enough. Having said that, I do feel like the submission criteria on this is way over the top. Its Dougs game and he's entitled to run it however he sees fit. But to ask for further information on a characters core beliefs and so on seems a bit much to me and I would be discouraged from applying for another of Dougs games because of these reasons. Personally, I like to see characters grow and evolve over their careers rather than shoe-horn them into my vision. Again, that is not intended to be a criticism. Good luck to all those involved, I'm sure you'll have a great time, this is just my 2cp worth. -JamZilla
Mogander's core belief is that Mitra's time, and that of his church, is over and the people are better of without him. In fact, people would be better off with someone like Mogander himself leading them instead of belief in a phony. His redeeming quality is that he is actually compassionate and merciful towards the innocent, which to him means small children and animals, and those who see their own folly and are willing to reform in his example.
Aiden Lightfoot wrote:
Is asking someone to write 2-4 sentences really "way over the top"? If people think this is a bit much, though, okay; I can withdraw the request, and just judge based on the submissions and thread activity to date. What do you think, folks? Is this too much? Doug M.
To be honest...that makes me want to apply to ANY game that Douglas Muir 406 runs. I'm more attracted to RP heavy DM's, and asking for this type of fleshed out character concepts appeals to me. Not to say that you aren't attracted RP heavy DM's or games, Aiden. To me it just seems to indicate that Douglas Muir 406's games are quite likely to BE "role" playing vs. "roll" playing.
Tirion's view:
Nobody is trying to lock anyone in to anything and if people do not want to respond that is their choice. I have seen much more stringent application requirements and more lenient ones. Personally, if someone does not want to take the time to respond, it make me, as a player and a DM, wonder about their dedication to the game. Also, if a DM is asking for this before the game, it indicates to me that he is interested in running an involved and interesting campaign. That said - here is Judge Tohram's response.
Judge Tohram believes in the law. He does not believe it to be either good or evil, it is simply the law. Does he use the law to his benefit? Heck yes, whenever he can as their are many loophole in even the most carefully crafted code. What is the Judge’s redeeming quality, why it is the same thing. He knows that no civilized society can exist without laws and that chaotic disregard for the rules leads to anarchy. This is why he has chosen to follow those who believe in laws and their enforcement, Wylgart - Hell’s Judge, as well as Lord Asmodeus. Don’t think for a moment that this in any manner makes Judge Tohram good, while he is not out to hurt people without reason, he truly could care less if people do get hurt as he sees the good citizens of Talingarde as nothing but pawns to be used and then thrown out when no longer needed. But, just remember, for every man he condemned, there was a wife or son or farmer who was able to walk away from the court smiling and believing that justice had been done for the wrong incurred upon them.
I am fine either way.
Core Belief:
Dren's core belief is that creatures should always seek out the unknown and continue to grow as thinking, rational beings. This doesn't apply as much to places as it does to life experiences. Because he has had limited real interaction with society his views will start out quite simple. Survival and revenge. But ultimately he is interested in the mystery of the condition known as living and why someone, for example, would choose to love someone else. He will tend be a little unpredictable because of this. One time he may intimidate someone, the next time he may use soothing words and charm to get what he wants. He will probably challenge other peoples perceptions of things sometimes just to make them think. Redeeming Quality:
This is a difficult question. I think his only redeeming quality will be loyalty. To those who help him he will reciprocate, all of the others are just chattel. Humanoids will mean as much (or little) to him in general as outsiders or an ooze for example. This is not really a min/max character, more of a concept I am really interested in role-playing.
Edmin Al'Roth
Core Belief:
Edmin Al’roth does not see himself as evil. The term evil is reserved for those without honor and that act without reason. He believes he sees the world as it truly is and responds in kind. His core belief is that the end justifies the means. People like him are needed to do the dirty work of society, but in doing so you come to find out that war is hell and you must become a devil if you are to live through it. Redeeming Qualities:
If Al’Roth has any redeeming qualities, they are his strong sense of personal honor, truly caring for his companions as if they were his own strange family, and his dedication to teamwork. Even though he has no mercy on those that get in his way, and his code of honor may be more of a grey area than a true line, he will keep his word if at all possible and never betray a real teammate.
I think it is perfectly legitimate for people to be turned off by the submission requests, after all it is supposed to be fun. But I also think that it is very clear the kind of game Doug wants to run, and for those that are turned off by the application, they would be turned off by the game itself most likely. I especially think when your submissions are up in the 30's that it is important to find a way to narrow it down and really find people that will do well and play well together, and 2-4 sentences does not seem to much. It is not like he made an RP Tavern. :) I also think that considering this is an EVIL campaign it is particularly important to find players with beliefs and personalities than can mesh. Otherwise we all just kill each other and then re-recruit. Though Bref is ok with this since he gets to eat the bodies...
Thanks for getting the chance to reach the next round Doug M. It must have been tight. I'm not even fully awake yet but here goes. Cуровую зиму "Surovuyu Zimu" (Bitter Winter)
Core Belief: Spoiler:
Like many singular individuals of history or fiction, Cуровую зиму, "Surovuyu" does not think herself as evil, nor does she even think in terms as flippant as good vs evil. Stigmas and reasonings such as these are for priests, philosophers, and lesser men. She does not seek to overthrow the Republic, "but the Republican Senate is stagnant and corrupt." She does not mean to conquer, but her people "must have living space." She does not seek to invade, occupy and harass the native population, but "there are weapons of mass destruction, that threaten our way of life and our very freedoms." Soroyuvu truly believes that she is destined for greatness, to rule above men, not for the sake of power but rather there are very few who would be up to the task. Perhaps being of the blood of Baba Yaga was cause enough for this. Perhaps it's from the prodding voice that she hears from her bonded item, long before swallowed in her chest cavity. Or perhaps it from the other voice she hears, one that she knows in her heart of hearts is her great grand mother. The one voice she fears above all else.
Seems like a reasonable request, I'm always happy to provide further discussion of a character especially when I've tried to keep the writing on background/personality to a minimum already. Jax's core belief is that life is short and should be lived for entertainment and art. Those that get in the way of that entertainment deserve to be dueled to the death. He finds artistry in seeing something perfected, whether its for good or evil. His goal in aiding Asmodeus would be simple: wealth and power...and maybe being able to affect some changes in society on how hedonism is perceived as a bad thing. Despite this hedonistic personality and eager use of blade, Jax isn't truly evil. He won't go out of his way to harm others and in fact, will usually try to avoid doing so, unless he's bored and feels like a duel..or is forging away your life savings or seducing your wife. Despite his love for hedonism, he can't be bought by wealth alone. He wouldn't turn on a fellow criminal for a bag of gold. Everyone draws a line somewhere.
Well, that's seven out of ten. Deadline is noon Saturday, but I'll keep an eye on this thread; if the remaining three submit before then, I'll announce the choices once they have. Doug M.
Sorry Doug, I got booted out of the Paizo site just as I completed my post. Here is the part that did not post. I included the first part again for clarity. Cуровую зиму "Surovuyu Zimu" (Bitter Winter)
Core Belief: Spoiler:
Like many singular individuals of history or fiction, Cуровую зиму, "Surovuyu" does not think herself as evil, nor does she even think in terms as flippant as good vs evil. Stigmas and reasonings such as these are for priests, philosophers, and lesser men. She does not seek to overthrow the Republic, "but the Republican Senate is stagnant and corrupt." She does not mean to conquer, but her people "must have living space." She does not seek to invade, occupy and harass the native population, but "there are weapons of mass destruction, that threaten our way of life and our very freedoms." Soroyuvu truly believes that she is destined for greatness, to rule above men, not for the sake of power but rather there are very few who would be up to the task. Perhaps being of the blood of Baba Yaga was cause enough for this. Perhaps it's from the prodding voice that she hears from her bonded item, long before swallowed in her chest cavity. Or perhaps it from the other voice she hears, one that she knows in her heart of hearts is her great grand mother. The one voice she fears above all else. Redeeming qualities: Spoiler:
I really fought against the urge to give Surovuyu a redeeming quality/qualities.
And I came up with a few. But that's just it, Sorovuyu is a proper villain. She is NOT Darth Vader at the end of the saga, she is not Arnold as the second Terminator in the second movie with all the catch phrases, she is not Tywin Lanister from the TV version of A Game of Thrones. The TV version of Tywin shows him in another light, it humanized him, i actually like the character. Not so in the book version, there Tywin is cold and calculating, ruthless and plotting. He IS a villain. When I play a hero I will jump off a balcony into a moving cart, hoping there is more hay than it seems from above. When I'm the hero I will charge the dragon and hope my steed, lance and friends hold true. When I'm the hero I will kiss the fair prince, even when his breath smells like a frog. But Sorovuyu is a proper villain. I won't take that away from her. Role play bonus:
Spoiler:
if I'm lucky enough to be chosen for this group I was thinking of role playing and posting as a separate character the 'voice' Sorovuyu hears now and again. As the GM you can post as the voice as well. I don't want it to be annoying or a hinderance to the party, more of a plot and story mechanic. Or maybe Sorovuyu is just stark mad. I was thinking to post as the voice only once every 10 posts or so, possibly less, again this is based on the plot, never more than 1 in 6 posts. More Evil Obi Wan to Luke rather than Gollum to Smeagol.
EDIT - This is what happens when you type something up, and then get called away to lunch before you really get a chance to proofread and finish. Boy do I feel foolish. Add to Redeeming Quality:
- Because of Judge Tohram's belief in law and its application, he is very reliable. If he gives you his word, that word is good. You just had better make sure that you understand what he agreed to.
No problem with the DM wanting a bit more thought and response with such a wide field to choose from. People tend not to fall quickly. Bernald kind of sauntered vaguely downwards for a while, before discovering the stairs got greasy further down. And he still clings to some possible-delusions bout himself... But maybe I should let him speak. Core Beliefs:
"Everyone wants something dark. Everyone indulges somehow. Some of 'em are very good at hiding it. They get called honorable. Some of 'em put a really high price on their favors. They get called virtuous. But nobody's innocent, everybody wants something. It's only a matter of finding out what it is. Let me help you to your heart's desire, and I can get you to give me mine." "What do I want? Well, once upon a time it was respect. Then I found out nobody was respectable. Not the way the priests say. Not deep down. Then I wanted wealth. Still do, sure, makes so many things easier. But some people you can't buy with gold. Or maybe I didn't have enough gold hidden away for them. They wouldn't help me. I know what I want now. I want revenge,!" "What do you want?"
Redeeming Quality:
"I'm honest. I'll tell it to you the way it is. I told you, I saw my chances and I took 'em. Oh, I can be a prig in public when they're all listening. But we can talk straight, one on one. You help me, I help you. And I keep my bargains, I do. We might want to talk again someday, after we get out, right?" If Bernard ever experienced a genuine act of altruism, it would probably shake him to the core.
Okay, that's eight. We're just waiting on Rosa and Grafelda now. Doug M.
Ah! Timezone on opposite side of planet. Grafelda's core belief is that the world is full of sheeple, and that only those with the Will to see through the illusions of morality will prosper; might truly does make right. If Grafelda had one redeeming quality it would be that she is essentially innocent (the way a child is, ignorant), having been a captive for most of her life, she does what she does in order to protect herself. She's never been given a chance or reason to be 'good'.
Rosa's core belief is:
Rosa has the same as the core beliefs as the Asmodeus faith -> Hell's laws is absolute. strict discipline and unwavering devotion to the will of Hell leads to a safe world from the Demonic taint of the abyss. Hell is all that stands to stop the powers of the Abyss. Evil and good are just points of view held by the weak. The strong should rule the weak. As a cleric of the Asmodeus faith Rosa will always work with others of the faith as Hell commands. If Rosa has a redeeming quality, it is?:
She Has more than one GM I think -> She will fight to save the any and every one from sinking into the Abyss, The hell's and she are here to keep the whole world safe from doing just that, no matter what it takes. Once you have her trust that you are helping her fight the dangers of the abyss she will always come to your aid. Last of all - It always good to have one really evil &^£^&£ in a party to think "Now what would I do in this situation?" Insight is a good thing even if it comes from a bad place.
Okay. First, many thanks to everyone who took the time to submit. There were a lot of good submissions and I'm sorry I couldn't invite more of you in. Upon consideration, the selections are: Melee Edmin Al’roth - Kozaric - Human - Cavalier
Arcane Cуровую зиму "Surovuyu Zimu" -- Kate Case -- Aasimar Wizard (Evoker)
Divine
Skills
Yes, I ended up bending the rules and picking six. Okay! Thanks again to everyone who submitted. Now jump on over to the Gameplay and discussion threads. It's time to walk... Doug M.
So it does. Come on over and start posting! Doug M.
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