ENLARGEMENT: BONUSES TO CMB / CMD VS. PENALTIES TO AB / AC


Rules Questions


If I'm turning from medium to large creature, I'm getting +1 size modifer to my CMB/CMD. But at the same time, I'm getting -1 size modifer to my Attack Bonus and Armor class.
So this means, maneuver wise, those bonuses cancel each other out?

Sczarni

No, they don't cancel each other out.

Size penalties to Attacks and AC become bonuses with regard to CMB and CMD.

You can check out some statblocks from the Bestiary of large and larger creatures to confirm this.


That's great! Thank you for clarification.

Sczarni

According to the Core Rulebook, any penalties to AC affect the CMD, so the -1 penalty from Enlarge Person would counter the +1 size bonus to CMD.

The +2 Strength bonus also counters the -2 Dexterity bonus as well.


Yes but it doesn't, at least that is not the way how paizo have handled every monster book.


Dr. Grok, barbarian scientist wrote:

According to the Core Rulebook, any penalties to AC affect the CMD, so the -1 penalty from Enlarge Person would counter the +1 size bonus to CMD.

The +2 Strength bonus also counters the -2 Dexterity bonus as well.

While it is true that

Quote:
Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.

with the same effective text for CMD...

You must also take into account that

Quote:
The special size modifier for a creature's Combat Maneuver Bonus is as follows: Fine –8, Diminutive –4, Tiny –2, Small –1, Medium +0, Large +1, Huge +2, Gargantuan +4, Colossal +8.

with the same effective text for CMD.

Bolded for emphasis. You cannot apply two size modifiers to a roll, so the specific bonus to CMB and CMD overrides the general penalty to attacks and AC.

Sczarni

Dr. Grok, barbarian scientist wrote:
According to the Core Rulebook, any penalties to AC affect the CMD

Except in the case of size modifiers.


Nefreet wrote:
Dr. Grok, barbarian scientist wrote:
According to the Core Rulebook, any penalties to AC affect the CMD
Except in the case of size modifiers.

Well, it doesn't actually say that, right?

EDIT:I mean, I might be wrong, but I think that is not written in the book in any form. We know how the good works, how paizo use it and that is the actual answer given in the this thread and it is the correct one, but lets not pretend it is there written clearly for everyone to see.


Dr. Grok, barbarian scientist wrote:

According to the Core Rulebook, any penalties to AC affect the CMD, so the -1 penalty from Enlarge Person would counter the +1 size bonus to CMD.

The +2 Strength bonus also counters the -2 Dexterity bonus as well.

Size bonuses do not stack, so if you have a -1 size bonus to CMD from AC, and a +1 size bonus to CMD from CMD you would only apply the highest number (+1). Hope that helps.


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This isn't really on topic, but I want to say; any time I see the word ENLARGEMENT in capital letters I fear my spam filter has failed :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Trekkie90909 wrote:
Dr. Grok, barbarian scientist wrote:

According to the Core Rulebook, any penalties to AC affect the CMD, so the -1 penalty from Enlarge Person would counter the +1 size bonus to CMD.

The +2 Strength bonus also counters the -2 Dexterity bonus as well.

Size bonuses do not stack, so if you have a -1 size bonus to CMD from AC, and a +1 size bonus to CMD from CMD you would only apply the highest number (+1). Hope that helps.

Only problem you have here is that a -1 size modifier is not a bonus, it's a penalty, and penalties stack with bonuses, generally.

It's a pretty safe bet (considering the sheer number of stat blocks that we can reference) that the special size modifier to CMD replaces the normal size modifier to AC, though.

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