I think the idea of the random generation is to get a "typical" height or weight, with some random variation -- i.e., get a "bell curve" height or weight, not to go to the extreme of the range of either outlier end or the other.
I sincerely doubt any intent by the designers of Dungeons and Dragons (since that's the original source of those tables) was to discount or diminish the existence of the extremely short or the extremely tall.
Of course, since you can always just choose your height or weight as you see fit I do not know if it really matter (though I hope if a little person or very tall person felt discriminated against, they would let Paizo know).
...wait..wait. This..This isn't a joke topic..?
*sadface throat tearing Gnoll thing*
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I think the idea of the random generation is to get a "typical" height or weight, with some random variation -- i.e., get a "bell curve" height or weight, not to go to the extreme of the range of either outlier end or the other.
I sincerely doubt any intent by the designers of Dungeons and Dragons (since that's the original source of those tables) was to discount or diminish the existence of the extremely short or the extremely tall.
Of course, since you can always just choose your height or weight as you see fit I do not know if it really matter (though I hope if a little person or very tall person felt discriminated against, they would let Paizo know).
Do you understand what 17d6 does to a bell curve?
Population...Height
#1...17+5=22 inches tall
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
#17...18+5=23 inches tall
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
And that's just the First two inches of height...somewhere out there are 17 people who are 8'10" and one guy who is 8'11".
I think you misunderstood what I am trying to say.
What I am getting that was the rules way of generating it generates height and weight values that, if you THEN placed those values on a bell curve graph of human sizes, those values would only fall on the largest, tallest, bell-curviest part of the graph, and none on the outliers. It is designed to eliminate the outliers.
Your method on the other hand reincludes those outliers (I think, see disclaimer below).
In other words, the game's aim is for the typical.
Your aim is to be all inclusive.
Also, I am an English major, and your wall of numbers is meaningless to me. Yes, I can understand the most basic concept of bell curve because I did take math classes, but you've entered the realm of things I cannot brain.
But again, from what I gather you are trying to argue... I am not arguing that the random generator produces a bell curve effect. I am saying they took the numbers on the bell curve, took the ones that fell on the average area only, and then created a new generator that creates that range of numbers only.
Ok... I am 6 feet even. My best friend is 4'2" (Hitchhikers' Guide joke aside). We both are outside Human Norms.
In a fantasy setting, Anyone not normal probably doesn't live long.
Look at the Spartans. You had a lazy eye? Over the cliff. You born missing a finger? Over the cliff. etc. etc.
8'11" - Robert Wedlow
Robert WADLOW
#AltonILPride
In a fantasy setting, Anyone not normal probably doesn't live long.
Look at the Spartans. You had a lazy eye? Over the cliff. You born missing a finger? Over the cliff. etc. etc.
This is Golarion, not Warhammer 40k. Being overly short or tall probably causes fewer problems than any of the other things the average adventurer writes into his backstory without any thought of angst - raised by another race; half-human half-something-else; bloodlines manifesting from ancient serpent races, dragons, rakshasa, trolls/giants, Lovecraftian horrors, and practically every sort of outsider (genies, elementals, good- and evil- aligned ones). If anything, a typical humanoid-rich fantasy setting should have a broader definition of normal than our lonely species has.
But there are limits as to how tall or how short you can be without having serious problems and/or being pushed out of the Medium size category -- and such people do not make very good adventurers. A man who is 7 feet tall is imposing and potentially scare, while one who is 8 feet tall struggles just to walk around. I am less sure of how things break down at the short end of human height, but there are similar limits there. Unusual ancestry would be a virtual requirement for viability of a character whose height is outside of human norms.
This is Golarion, not Warhammer 40k. Being overly short or tall probably causes fewer problems than any of the other things the average adventurer writes into his backstory without any thought of angst - raised by another race; half-human half-something-else; bloodlines manifesting from ancient serpent races, dragons, rakshasa, trolls/giants, Lovecraftian horrors, and practically every sort of outsider (genies, elementals, good- and evil- aligned ones). If anything, a typical humanoid-rich fantasy setting should have a broader definition of normal than our lonely species has.In a fantasy setting, Anyone not normal probably doesn't live long.
Look at the Spartans. You had a lazy eye? Over the cliff. You born missing a finger? Over the cliff. etc. etc.
Why in the name of Asmodeus did you bring up Warhammer anything...
I provided an example of the nicer methods of rooting out "weaknesses". Heck the Norse if you hadn't proven yourself by your 13th winter you were either exiled (if you could withstand the public beating) or beat to death by your entire village. With most of the blows coming from your own parents.
Note: Norse mythology is the basis that Tolkien & D&D and thereby Pathfinder all drew from.
And they had Hobbies, Dwarves, Elves, Orcs, etc.
We're playing a historic campaign, set on Earth. Humans only. My son wanted to play a small person (midget, to use a not-so-nice word). I used the Advanced Race Guide to swap anything uber-special-seeming, racial-wise from the halfling, and swapped in stuff that would just make him a better combatant.
Voila! Small human with some fighting skill.
Take it as you will.
This is Golarion, not Warhammer 40k. Being overly short or tall probably causes fewer problems than any of the other things the average adventurer writes into his backstory without any thought of angst - raised by another race; half-human half-something-else; bloodlines manifesting from ancient serpent races, dragons, rakshasa, trolls/giants, Lovecraftian horrors, and practically every sort of outsider (genies, elementals, good- and evil- aligned ones). If anything, a typical humanoid-rich fantasy setting should have a broader definition of normal than our lonely species has.In a fantasy setting, Anyone not normal probably doesn't live long.
Look at the Spartans. You had a lazy eye? Over the cliff. You born missing a finger? Over the cliff. etc. etc.
Why in the name of Asmodeus did you bring up Warhammer anything...
I provided an example of the nicer methods of rooting out "weaknesses". Heck the Norse if you hadn't proven yourself by your 13th winter you were either exiled (if you could withstand the public beating) or beat to death by your entire village. With most of the blows coming from your own parents.
Note: Norse mythology is the basis that Tolkien & D&D and thereby Pathfinder all drew from.
And they had Hobbies, Dwarves, Elves, Orcs, etc.
But the Norse or the Spartans aren't what most of the standard D&D/Pathfinder high-medieval/early-renaissance settings draw from. I doubt that either Andoran or Henry the Fifth's England have/had rules of how tall you had to be to live there.
England... hate to break it to you, But all the way up until the Crusades if you had anything that seemed like a disability you usually wouldn't make it to being an adult if you were male. If you were female it depended on whether it was a physical or mental. If it was physically you ended up like a male. Mental on the other hand depended on how it affected the person. If they could they would be married off like any other girl.
Andoran is more of Renaissance Franco-Germany (modern day Austria).
And being 4'2" or 6'2" is a disability or weakness how, exactly?
What exactly is it that you are trying to say, besides that medieval Earth was a crappy place to live for the disabled/weak (not disputing that)? I'm not sure if it is:
- Fantasy worlds should be crappy places for the disabled/weak to live in to conform to Earth history
- Fantasy worlds should be crappy places to live in, not only for the disabled/weak, but also those who otherwise fall outside human "norms" (i.e. height) for unknown reasons (probably related to holding up a mirror to human folly)
- Pathfinder should make players roll a ridiculous amount of dice with a small chance of creating a character with dwarfism or gigantism so that they might know what it's like (OP's point, I think)
I still get to pick how long my.....nose is though.
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Unfortunately Humans in the RPG are never shorter than a Dwarf, and never taller than a Troll.I should say not! Since a troll in Pathfinder is generally about 14 feet tall.
With the exception of this wee lil' fella...
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What part of our earth has the same ethnic groups as golarion?
If you look most of the ethnic groups are based off of historical earth.
Thassilon, if I remember the fluff right is, seems based on ancient greece/rome.
Ulfen are pretty much the spitting image of Nordic Tribes.
Etc. Etc.
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Those really tall people and really short people often have developmental problems; Robert Wadlow had braces on his legs, e.g.
If you want to play a short person, you could always make a human Small and stat them up using the ARG. Without consulting Wikipedia, I'm not sure if Pygmies are as short as halflings and dwarves.
In case anyone cares, 17d6 gives a mean of 59.50, standard deviation of 7.04, and yeah.
@Axolotl: Human with the Young template?
Wouldn't that penalize their mental stats?
Let's just all play GURPS, we could all be no armed, no limb time manipulators . .
Wouldn't that penalize their mental stats?
No, it does not, it is really nothing but the Giant template but smaller instead of bigger. It's actually a Dwarrf/Pigmy template.
... Is there any mechanical effect to a character's height (and weight)?
I haven't ready many new ones, but a lot of old modules used to have pressure sensitive traps that would trigger at 250 lbs, 75 lbs, 300 lbs, etc...
Wouldn't that penalize their mental stats?
@Kydeem: I haven't seen any, but that doesn't stop a GM from including them especially in home games.
And being 4'2" or 6'2" is a disability or weakness how, exactly?Being 6'2" carries very little in the way of weakness/disability, whereas 4'2" humans often face issues with stunted skeletal growth and potential torso cavity space issues due to organ size vs chest cavity volume.
If your friend is one of the lucky few nowadays that, while being 4'2" has no physical deformity/growth issue, then awesome! But most ppl of that stature no longer fit the normal human stat array. Same on the other end of the scale (7'2" or so and taller)
People 6'2" + suffer from quite a few problems later in life. An average shorter lifespan than people below 6'2" in height as well as a higher instance of knee, ankle, and lower back problems as you get into your late 30s and early 40s.
So people in the 6 to 7 feet tall range make fine adventurers -- their health problems kick in at around middle age, well beyond the end of their expected adventuring careers.