What point buy is this, if you don't mind me asking?
Intelligent Fighter = Gunslinger
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I know that Roy is a striaght fighter, but if I were to Pathfinderize him I think the Student of War could fit.
To be fair, Roy Greenhilt has positively wicked attributes across the board. If I were to take a wild guess, he'd probably be a 50 point buy character, at which point having 16 intelligence isn't actually a big investment at all and could be justified simply for the extra skill points.
Str 18/22, Dex 12/16, Con 14/18, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
It's been stated in-comic that Roy has a high enough wisdom to be a cleric and a good (ie, positive) charisma modifier. I wouldn't stat him with less than 14 wisdom or 12 charisma.
20 point buy. I should have mentioned that.
If you scale Roy down to a 20 point buy build, he just wouldn't be Roy anymore.
If I had to stat him with 20 point buy, I'd go with this array: 16 / 8 / 12 / 14 / 13 / 12
Fact is, Roy is very well balanced, and building a character with an array like that is just going to leave you unsatisfied at a 20 point buy level.
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Roy used rolls to determine his stats, and rolled amazingly.
Roy used rolls to determine his stats, and rolled amazingly.
I'd agree with this, but you can still measure how well he rolled by point buy equivalent. I'd say that equivalent is around a 50, which is downright godly.
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I know that Roy is a striaght fighter, but if I were to Pathfinderize him I think the Student of War could fit.
Along the same lines, the Tactician archetype would fit into the concept of an intelligent fighter.
Can't build Roy on a 20 point buy.
Build-wise, he's a two-handed fighter. Plain and simple. He just has high supporting stats and a couple traits to add skills to his class-skill list.
Roy doesn't necessarily have a positive charisma, unless I'm forgetting a comic where that's confirmed.
At very minimum positive modifiers in both.
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Well this got derailed quickly...
There have been various attempts to stat out the OotS characters on the Giant in the Playground forums, this being the latest....
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253978
The artist has been resistant to officially stating out the characters, largely because he doesn't want to stat himself into a corner story-wise.
he should have cleave and greater cleave..
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0102.html
And knowledge (enginering) -- but you already got that...
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0808.html
And no student of war..
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0791.html
And somewhere I remember a weapon specialization... Or was it greater?
Roy used rolls to determine his stats, and rolled amazingly.
This. Using him as a paragon of "smart fighter" is disingenuous. You could also call him (perhaps in some cases to a lesser extent or greater extent) a strong fighter, a tough fighter, a wise fighter, or a charismatic fighter. Dex might be his one weakness, though I'm pretty sure he has Combat Reflexes, so even that can't be too low.
As for the topic of the thread.... just use a Warblade. Or Swashbuckler. Or Magus, for a PF example. A class that actually gets int-based abilities. People are so determined to make fighter work for any possible concept, it's really kind of annoying.
I guess there is something I am missing with another forum somewhere but the character Laz posted only has a 10 Wisdom and accounts for the godly stats with items. So for the purpose he posted I would say this is a competent skilled fighter.
I guess there is something I am missing with another forum somewhere but the character Laz posted only has a 10 Wisdom and accounts for the godly stats with items. So for the purpose he posted I would say this is a competent skilled fighter.Is a 22 strength? (the only stat that's above 18) considered godly for a 15th level character? I will admit that I didn't bother with WBL calculations but I've seen more gear on network campaigns with characters that high a level.
My attempt was to come to your aid Laz other people where suggesting "godly" stats accusing you of rolling well or using 50 point buy. I was simply pointing out that there were other reasons for the stats.
I am still trying to figure out why people are saying the character is wise with a 10.
Yes yes you have. Even so it strains credulity to suggest that a 10 is high or that it makes for a possible cleric.
Warblade's 5 disciplines include almost no supernatural abilities. None of Iron Heart, Tiger Claw, White Raven, and I'm struggling to think of any Su Diamond Mind or Stone Dragon maneuvers or stances, either.
There is nothing magical about the Warblade, other than the way it makes my heart beat pitter-patter.
I'll have a go at this later....
This came up from another thread, but as much as I might enjoy rebutting Raving Dork, this deserves another approach at the topic.
Roy Greenhilt, potentially smart enough to have become a Wizard eschewed that path, as some say in rebellion to a neglectful father, the wizard Greenhilt. While not of mean arm himself, he embodies the approach of the fighter who doesn't neglect his brain over his brawn, even if he prizes his development of the latter highly.
So this is the thread to build your own Roy Greenhilts and further explore the concept of the intelligent fighter. I'm starting with this one based on the thread namer based loosely on what I see as his current incarnation. Play with the concept as you would, the ground rules are only that the character be a single classed fighter with a race from the Core Rulebook.
Other than that... go wild.
So here is my first entry.
Roy Greenhilt version 1.0
** spoiler omitted **...
When i saw the title with "intelligent" and "fighter" in it i thought this was a spoof thread :)
But anyway, you named this thread after Roy Greenhilt, but then stat him poorly.
Sure your focus is to show a intelligent fighter, but if your going to name it after Roy who is supposedly above average stats, then you should prolly give him those stats.
And no, a 12 wisdom is a piss poor cleric. Based on the statements above, he should be a 14 min.
I know he isnt a duelist but that is more in lines to what i would consider a intelligent fighter.
Check out the Lore Warden archetype (in the Pathfinder Field Guide - or look at it on D20pfsrd) - it is a fighter archetype that gets 2 extra skill ranks per level usable only on INT skills - and it gets EVERY INT skill as a class skill (including Spellcraft...). They also get a bunch of great things - bonus Combat Expertise in place of Bravery and a bonus to CMB/CMD that scales as you level up in place of Armor Training.
They do give up medium and heavy armor and armor training so that might be an issue if you want to use Full Plate (but you could get that armor proficiency either via a few level dip into another martial class or spending feats - however w/o armor training you won't be as nimble or fast as the typical fighter.
My PFS Lore Warden has an 18 INT (and 18 DEX - he's a tiefling and a finess focused fighter). Really fun character - and at low levels he has been taking on the Skill Monkey/Knowledge monger roll taking full advantage of having nearly every Knowledge skill trained with a +8-9.
I may dip him into Alchemist (Mindchemist) so boost those Knowledge checks considerably more - he'll have +14's in every knowledge skill (with just one rank invested, assuming I buy him a +2 INT headband) - my alternative is to dip him into another arcane casting class (magus? witch? wizard?) - in any case he'll have a lot of skills but still exceptionally useful in combat (nearly full BAB, great at tripping, combat reflexes and when he has a spare feat Power Attack)
Anyway a really fun INT based fighter option.
mindchemist dip into duelist for the same skills per level and armor from intelligence. For a dex based character with skills as a priority its a very good prestige.
I guess there is something I am missing with another forum somewhere but the character Laz posted only has a 10 Wisdom and accounts for the godly stats with items. So for the purpose he posted I would say this is a competent skilled fighter.He's a Level 15 character will a Will defence of 7, I would describe him as a positive liability.
Because of levels and gear. His wisdom is still a 10. That may be a high will save for a fighter but there are one or two more things he will need to be a cleric.
Alright
I'm gonna use this to make MY interpretation of a kick ass intelligent version of roy.
He'll either be a Lore Warden or Weapon Master.
Probably go into Student of War so he can use INT to AC instead of Dex.
Maybe even Knight of Ozem to show his undead killing focus.
Steel falcon could also be nice.
Now I remember there IS a paizo PRC that uses Int either for attack or damage. Can anyone tell me the name?
Also there is Sash of the war champion for treating level as 4 higher for armor training.
Is there a similar item for INSPIRE COURAGE?
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I`m willing to bet Roy has fairly lame Str himself, and depends on a combination of his +5 greatsword and that belt of giants Strenth (probably +6) to hit and deal damage. I wouldn't be surprised if he has higher then average stats, in terms of point-buy, but I wouldn't go as far as to say 50 point-buy for him.
With 15 point-buy (which I consider standard) and 15 levels, I'd stat his ability scores as follows (based on Pathfinder rules in this case, not 3.5):
20 Str (base 12, +6 from belt, +2 from being human)
12 Dex (base 12, unmodified)
12 Con (base 12, unmodified)
14 Int (base 13 +1 from level up)
14 Wis (base 13 +1 from level up)
14 Cha (base 13 +1 from level up)
I don't recall him ever showing any amazing displays of Dexterity, and he seems to get knocked out too frequently for a member of a class with good hit dice, so I suspect his Dex and/or Con are his lowest stats, which I reflected in how I arranged his ability scores.
With (modified) 20 Str, 15 BAB, and a +5 sword he's got a +25/+20/+15 full attack (+27/+22/+17 assuming wepon focus feats, +30/+25/+20 assuming weapon focus feats AND his focused weapon training benefiting his greatsword), which is pretty decent against most of the CR 15 monsters in the bestiaries, and his damage output would be at 2d6+12 (we can assume 2d6+16 with weapon specialization feats, 2d6+19 with feats and weapon training) with a 10% chance of threatening critical hits per-swing (maybe 20%, again depending on his feats). Overall I'd say he's not great, but not terrible. At any rate Vaarsuvius is clearly meant to be the group's heavy-damage dealer anyways. Roy can be forgiven for lacking godly damage simply by not being the big dumb fighter. He's the leader, and focuses on more things than just hitting things for heavy damage.
I'm gonna try and optimize a Roy Greenhilt flavored char.
At the moment looking like
lore Warden 10
Student of War 5
OK here it is.
Name: Roy Greenhilt
Build: Gendarme 1/Lore Warden 5/Knight of Orzem 4/Student of War 10
Race: Human Alignment: Lawful Good
Ability Scores:
STR 16
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 15
WIS 12
CHA 12
Favored Class: Fighter (+ Hit points)
Skills: Class (4), Int (2), = 6 per level (8 for Student of War)
2 Traits- Birthmark +2 vs Mind Effecting,
Defender of the Society+1 AC in Med
Build
Gendarme1-Mount, Order of the Tome, Power Attack, H-Skill Focus: Religion
LW1-Weapon Focus: Greatsword
LW2-Combat Expertise, Cleave, Cleaving Finish
LW3-Maneuver Mastery +2
LW4-Wpn Spl, Deadly Aim
LW-5Weapon Training +1
KO1-Sentinel Against Undeath, Lunge
KO2-Shield Wall/Shake it off/Stealth Synergy
KO3-Improved Shield bash, Favored Enemy (Undead), Dodge
KO4-Thwart Foul Magic (Disruptive/Spell breaker)
SW1-Know your Enemy, Critical Focus
SW2-Combat Reflexes , Mind over Metal, Skill Focus- Knowledge: Planes
SW3-Anticipate 1/day, Staggering Critical
SW4-Know your Enemy +2
SW5-Teleport Tactician, Blinding Critical
SW6-Telling Blow
SW7-Know your Enemy +3, Feat
SW8-Combat Feat
SW9-Nemesis, Feat
SW10-Deadly Blow
Now what I have ended up with is a BAB20 char
With a slightly Higher will save than normal
6 skills per level for 10 levels then 8 after that.
2 (more with dex item) AOO's a round
+2 Attack/Damage vs undead (ala Roy hates undead)
Int to AC (+3 at least but higher with head band)
+3 to Attack or Saves/AC vs Chosen foes.
Order of the tome (+1 vs Zyrkon's spells)
Bane weapon 1/day
+4 to attack/+5 damage with Greatsword (wpn train, gloves, feats)
Can do Any CM without provoking via Lunge/Know thy enemy with a +5 bonus)
While not a straight fighter, I think this captures Roy's flavor quite well.
This class wears Med/Heavy Armor like Roy
Is good at CM's like Roy
Is really smart like Roy
Same fighting style as roy
Includes every named feat roy has:
Wpn fcs, Wpn Spl, Combat Ref, Cleave Cleaving Finish (3.5 Great Cleave)
And is particularly suited to fighting Undead Casters (Roy's great Nemesis is a lich)
He still needs gear so I'll come back to this but opinions are welcome.
It is certainly not the highest DPR build ever but it does appropriate damage and makes up for it with quite a few tricks.
When the Order of the Stick encountered a
And I agree with what was said earlier : Roy didn't use point buy and rolled very high on his mental stats. Moreover, even if he has a very high intelligence, we never saw him use feats based on intelligence such as Combat Expertise. Roy is a standard two-handed fighter with very high mental stats.
PS : LazarX, in the build you posted, you forgot the medallion of Summon Girlfriend ;p
Roy used rolls to determine his stats, and rolled amazingly.This. Using him as a paragon of "smart fighter" is disingenuous. You could also call him (perhaps in some cases to a lesser extent or greater extent) a strong fighter, a tough fighter, a wise fighter, or a charismatic fighter. Dex might be his one weakness, though I'm pretty sure he has Combat Reflexes, so even that can't be too low.
As for the topic of the thread.... just use a Warblade. Or Swashbuckler. Or Magus, for a PF example. A class that actually gets int-based abilities. People are so determined to make fighter work for any possible concept, it's really kind of annoying.
He telled the half-ogre with a spikes chain that he sucked at attacks of opportunity during fighter academy or something along the lines.
Also he was specific about not using his intelligence as part of his build at the arene.
Humbly,
Yawar
You're fighting a loosing battle, to try and stat any of the OOTS gang out will be near impossible, the artist himself does not stat them out so if he has a great joke in mind or thinks of a good twist in a story somewhere but it requires one specific feat, or one specific spell the character can have it. So yes at one point Roy may have had what seems like a high (16or more) wis. Later on he may make choices of someone with a wis. Score no higher than an 8. And its all the stats that are like this, feats and skills as well. If you would go back through each comic and write down everytime he seems to use a feat it would probably be well over a 20th level fighter, all of the characters are like this. You cant follow a rules set to recreate something that was created without rules in mind and expect 100% accuracy, you will always be short somewhere.