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The Roy Greenhilt College of Intelligent Fighters


Advice

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Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Joegoat wrote:
You're fighting a loosing battle, to try and stat any of the OOTS gang out will be near impossible, the artist himself does not stat them out so if he has a great joke in mind or thinks of a good twist in a story somewhere but it requires one specific feat, or one specific spell the character can have it. So yes at one point Roy may have had what seems like a high (16or more) wis. Later on he may make choices of someone with a wis. Score no higher than an 8. And its all the stats that are like this, feats and skills as well. If you would go back through each comic and write down everytime he seems to use a feat it would probably be well over a 20th level fighter, all of the characters are like this. You cant follow a rules set to recreate something that was created without rules in mind and expect 100% accuracy, you will always be short somewhere.

My intention is not so much to stat out Roy, although I think he is the modern D20 trope namer, but explore different variations around that specific character type.

The challenge here is not to replicate Roy Greenhilt but build your own variation of a fighter who actually uses his brain while staying within the class.


Well, to bring it back: AFAIK there's one archetype (Lore Warden) that's a good fit and one PrC (Student of War) that is all about the intelligent fighter. The Duelist PrC isn't really about Int as such, but it allows you to use Int for AC as long as you're wearing light or no armor.

Lore Warden and Student of War would seem to synthesize nicely, because LW gives you all Knowledge skills and lots of skill ranks to spend on them, while SoW lets you use those Knowledges in combat.

Doug M.


Gluttony wrote:
I`m willing to bet Roy has fairly lame Str himself, and depends on a combination of his +5 greatsword and that belt of giants Strenth (probably +6) to hit and deal damage. I wouldn't be surprised if he has higher then average stats, in terms of point-buy, but I wouldn't go as far as to say 50 point-buy for him.

I would agree. 15-point seems a bit low, but I could totally see Roy as a 20-point buy (or a guy who rolled well).

Also, I think there's no question that Roy's Wis and Cha are positive. Yeah, he makes mistakes and is often the straight man. But he has impressive self control; despite the many provocations of his motley crew, he rarely loses his temper or goes beyond "snarky" in dealing with them. You can see this particularly in his interactions with some of the more obnoxious and annoying characters (his father, Belkar, Elan 1.0).

As for his Cha, that seems pretty obvious. He's the leader of the party, he's the party spokesman, he's comfortable interacting with everyone from peasants aristocrats, and he has a hott girlfriend. Q.E.D.

Doug M.


LazarX wrote:
Joegoat wrote:
You're fighting a loosing battle, to try and stat any of the OOTS gang out will be near impossible, the artist himself does not stat them out so if he has a great joke in mind or thinks of a good twist in a story somewhere but it requires one specific feat, or one specific spell the character can have it. So yes at one point Roy may have had what seems like a high (16or more) wis. Later on he may make choices of someone with a wis. Score no higher than an 8. And its all the stats that are like this, feats and skills as well. If you would go back through each comic and write down everytime he seems to use a feat it would probably be well over a 20th level fighter, all of the characters are like this. You cant follow a rules set to recreate something that was created without rules in mind and expect 100% accuracy, you will always be short somewhere.

My intention is not so much to stat out Roy, although I think he is the modern D20 trope namer, but explore different variations around that specific character type.

The challenge here is not to replicate Roy Greenhilt but build your own variation of a fighter who actually uses his brain while staying within the class.

Ah, well in that case an intelligence of 13 to meet the requirement for combat expertise is still an intelligent fighter (10 being average) so that would be a great place to start although I think you're wanting a bit more than that.

At any rate maybe if the fighter class (or classes if looking into the archetypes) would be better suited to intelligent builds if they had more than 10 skills or a way to add their int. Into their fighting prowess somehow, as is now it seems that if you want an intelligent fighter then its best to look at other classes and try to be melee heavy


1 person marked this as a favorite.
LazarX wrote:
The challenge here is not to replicate Roy Greenhilt but build your own variation of a fighter who actually uses his brain while staying within the class.

I'll bite, and present a 20 point buy Golarion Dwarf from the Land of the Linnorm Kings:

Nista Hordrin:
Nista Hordrin
Neutral Good Female Mountain Dwarf Fighter (Shielded Fighter) 8
Age: 46 Height: 4’6” Weight: 180
Strength 16
Dexterity 15
Constitution 14
Intelligence 14
Wisdom 10
Charisma 9
Hit Points 67
Fort Save: 8
Ref Save: 4
Will Save: 2
BAB 8/3
AC: 24, FF 23, Touch 11
CMB 11
CMD 23

Racial Traits (Took Lorekeeper, Mountaineer, Surface Survivalist):
Immune to altitude sickness and do not lose Dex to AC when using Climb or Acrobatics on narrow or slippery surfaces
+2 Perception to notice unusual stonework
Free Perception check against unusual stonework within ten feet, whether actively looking or not
Familiar with any weapon with Dwarven in the name
+1 attack versus Orcs and Goblinoids
+2 will versus charm and compulsion, can make a second save versus these one round later
+2 to Knowledge (History) checks involving Dwarves or their enemies
+4 dodge to AC versus giants
Treats wind conditions and cold climate as one step less severe
20 ft move speed not modified by load or armor
Class Abilities:
Bonus Feats (5) 4
Bravery +2
+2 to AC when wielding a shield and fighting defensively, using combat expertise, or using total defense.
+1 to attack and defense when using a shield bash. May shield bash during a full attack.

Feats:
Combat Expertise
Shield Focus
Greater Shield Focus
Two Weapon Fighting
Double Slice
Improved Shield Bash
Shield Slam
Power Attack
Lunge

Skills:
Knowledge: Arcana 8 (+10)
Knowledge: History 8 (+10)
Knowledge: Local 8 (+10)
Knowledge: Engineering 8 (+13)
Use Magic Device 8 (+11)

Favored Class Option: Skill Points

Traits:
Dangerously Curious (UMD class skill, +1 UMD)
Charming (+1 Bluff, Diplomacy to those who are attracted to her)

Equipment:
+1 Full Plate Armor
+1 Heavy Steel Shield
+1 Dwarven Waraxe
Composite Longbow +3 Str
40 Arrows

Nista Hordrin is a young dwarf born and raised in Kalsgard, the daughter of a scholar mother and architect father. A pretty girl, she is rather tall for a dwarf and possesses braided ginger hair and emerald green eyes. She was always a very curious child, with a passion for many different fields of study, such as architecture, engineering, history, world cultures, and magical devices. She is a woman with deep moral convictions, easily frustrated by anything, such as politics or misplaced rebelliousness, that gets in the way of these convictions. She is a natural with axe and shield, leading her into the path of the fighter, but her curiosity and intelligence colors her fighting style. Her intelligence comes from the way she uses her shield as an extension of her body rather than just a defense, and the way she studies magic even though she doesn't use it so as to be able to find a way to counter it. She has also learned how to use magic items that other fighters can't use to give her a bit of an edge in a battle, and she knows enough about engineering to work with whatever device or structure she wishes. She also knows much about history, culture, and current affairs, and is quite curious about such attairs, making her easily able to function in strange new lands and with strange new people.

I went with a dextrous fighter because I think that the ability to use TWF to make the shield do everything a shield can possibly do is something a smart fighter might want to do. I went with dwarf because a smart dwarf makes cultural sense and with the right racial options it provides good bonuses for this concept. The knowledge skills allow her to find and exploit both engineering or architectual and magical weaknesses, and UMD lets her maniuplate magic items into benifiting her, which I could easily see a smart warrior doing. Her local and historical knowledge lets her have the flexibility to deal with new and interesting people and gives her the knowledge she needs to function well in most any urban environment.

Silver Crusade

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

Well, to bring it back: AFAIK there's one archetype (Lore Warden) that's a good fit and one PrC (Student of War) that is all about the intelligent fighter. The Duelist PrC isn't really about Int as such, but it allows you to use Int for AC as long as you're wearing light or no armor.

Lore Warden and Student of War would seem to synthesize nicely, because LW gives you all Knowledge skills and lots of skill ranks to spend on them, while SoW lets you use those Knowledges in combat.

Doug M.

Yeah, my first thought from the first post in the thread was Lore Warden. I've been thinking of making one of those for Pathfinder Society. I was thinking of maybe specializing in reach weapons and/or combat maneuvers (whip trip build?), but I haven't really worked out any details yet.

Combat maneuvers are not only a big part of the Lore Warden's schtick, but they'd also seem like the very definition of intelligent fighting. Instead of just damaging things like a big, dumb oaf, you're using intelligent tactics to accomplish tactical goals.

I don't know much about the prestige classes - what books are Student of War and Duelist found in?


Fromper wrote:


I don't know much about the prestige classes - what books are Student of War and Duelist found in?

Duelist is right there in the core rulebook. Student of War is more obscure -- it's from the "Seekers of Secrets" accessory, which is the splatbook dealing with the Pathfinder Society. You can find it online here, at the PFSRD.

(Speaking only for myself, I like the Duelist but find her slightly underpowered. The Student seems to be nicely balanced, and IMO would be pretty attractive for a high-Int fighter type.)

Doug M.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
STR Ranger wrote:

OK here it is.

Name: Roy Greenhilt
Build: Gendarme 1/Lore Warden 5/Knight of Orzem 4/Student of War 10
Race: Human Alignment: Lawful Good
Ability Scores:
STR 16
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 15
WIS 12
CHA 12
Favored Class: Fighter (+ Hit points)
Skills: Class (4), Int (2), = 6 per level (8 for Student of War)
2 Traits- Birthmark +2 vs Mind Effecting,
Defender of the Society+1 AC in Med

If you are going to take Skill Focus at a human at level one - why not take the new Focused Study alternative human racial trait from Advanced Race Guide - it gives you Skill Focus at 1st, 8th and 16th levels in place of the Human bonus feat at 1st level. That would give you one more feat to play with (replacing the Skill Focus Knowledge Planes you take at a higher level) as well as give Roy one further Skill Focus feat at 16th level.

I guess it is personal preference between taking more levels of straight Lore Warden or taking more levels of Student of War. I'm not sure all 10 levels of Student of War are necessary but that's my personal preference.

Also did I miss how you would spend your attribute points at every 4th level? I don't see them in the stats (which seem to be a 20pt buy if my math is correct)


Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
LazarX wrote:
The challenge here is not to replicate Roy Greenhilt but build your own variation of a fighter who actually uses his brain while staying within the class.

I'll bite, and present a 20 point buy Golarion Dwarf from the Land of the Linnorm Kings:

** spoiler omitted **...

I forgot to record that I also took the Stubborn racial option.


Rycaut wrote:
STR Ranger wrote:

OK here it is.

Name: Roy Greenhilt
Build: Gendarme 1/Lore Warden 5/Knight of Orzem 4/Student of War 10
Race: Human Alignment: Lawful Good
Ability Scores:
STR 16
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 15
WIS 12
CHA 12
Favored Class: Fighter (+ Hit points)
Skills: Class (4), Int (2), = 6 per level (8 for Student of War)
2 Traits- Birthmark +2 vs Mind Effecting,
Defender of the Society+1 AC in Med

If you are going to take Skill Focus at a human at level one - why not take the new Focused Study alternative human racial trait from Advanced Race Guide - it gives you Skill Focus at 1st, 8th and 16th levels in place of the Human bonus feat at 1st level. That would give you one more feat to play with (replacing the Skill Focus Knowledge Planes you take at a higher level) as well as give Roy one further Skill Focus feat at 16th level.

I guess it is personal preference between taking more levels of straight Lore Warden or taking more levels of Student of War. I'm not sure all 10 levels of Student of War are necessary but that's my personal preference.

Also did I miss how you would spend your attribute points at every 4th level? I don't see them in the stats (which seem to be a 20pt buy if my math is correct)

Actually I did used the Focused Study option but was away from books and from memory thought the focuses came at 1, 12 and 18. They are there but are listed incorrectly.

My Roy is a 20 point buy.

If you think I captured the spirit nicely I'd appreciate some help equipping him and sorting his 3 or 4 free high level feat slots, which are open.

As it stands, like I said this Roy would make a very highly skilled fighter who does pretty good (but not mind blowing) damage.
I will look at if a straight Lore Warden would be any better but I don't think so at first glance.
The Gendarme level is there specifically to get Heavy Armor and another feat. Lore warden lacks heavy armor and shields and I didn't want to blow a feat to get proficiency. Plus order of the tome is a free +2 to saves vs ZYRKON'S magic!!

My attribute points would be 4th to Int(for another Skill point. 7 for 10 levels and 9 for another10) and the rest to STR. For a natural 20 str which is the minimum any fighter should have. Add a belt of Perfection and Manual +4 for a str of 30.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
LazarX wrote:
The challenge here is not to replicate Roy Greenhilt but build your own variation of a fighter who actually uses his brain while staying within the class.

I'll bite, and present a 20 point buy Golarion Dwarf from the Land of the Linnorm Kings:

** spoiler omitted **...

I like this one.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I like the thematic nature of taking the levels in Knight of Ozem but I think the shield focus seems off for a two-handed weapon fighter. I also think going to level 15 as a lore warden would offer a lot (+8 to cmb/cmd as an untypical bonus plus swift action know thy enemy to get a +2 on attacks and damage.

I might then take more levels as a cavalier if you want and instead of the situational bonuses from student of war or knight of Ozem just take feats like Disruptive directly.


Roy is a straight fighter. You should be trying to build Roy. Not an optimized character that could be Roy. Otherwise you are totally missing the point of the thread.

Shadow Lodge

Arslanxelan wrote:
Roy is a straight fighter. You should be trying to build Roy. Not an optimized character that could be Roy. Otherwise you are totally missing the point of the thread.

Try again:

LazarX wrote:
The challenge here is not to replicate Roy Greenhilt but build your own variation of a fighter who actually uses his brain while staying within the class.


Yep.

Although I am tossing up whether a straight Lore Warden would be better...


Tasha

Just tossing in a full lore warden reach fighter that can Dirty Trick, Stun, and stop an action completely in one +45 combat maneuver as part of a full attack.

Shadow Lodge

What point buy is she built on?


she's 25 point buy. I built her for this thread to illustrate a point. If you drop a score you don't particularly care for (Like a touch of con and a touch of wis) she loses maybe one to will and a few hit points she can be 20 easily enough.


There isn't a build for the fighter that usually begins combat co-ordinating his soldiers, then charges in at a pre-determined time. D&D/PF fighters have very little incentive to do that. What makes Roy different is how he is role-played.

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