sorry if i couldn't make it earlier. every time i tried to get on, it said Paizo was down for maintanence.
sorry if i couldn't make it earlier. every time i tried to get on, it said Paizo was down for maintanence.
I'm confused how you could post this over 5 hours ago and not do a post instead/as well.
I'm pondering following our D&D v3.5/PF house rule of just removing ACP and armour speed restrictions for all classes.
I recognize that this was an advantage I was giving to pure melees and would like to rectify a perceived power imbalance compared to spell casters (pure and hybrid). I was considering higher stats, more feats, et cetera, but think I offer both/either of those by simply giving more training points per level.
Fix Attempt: Pure Melees get 10 training points per level. We double the feats by level for them and half again for max stat buys.
As always: I am also open to other suggestions.
p.s. For some reason I would be shocked if there's any arguments against coming from Kwen and Ilina : )
I don't understand that. No ACP penalties helps anyone who has armor. Training points helps fighter types.
What is the power imbalance?
I don't understand that. No ACP penalties helps anyone who has armor. Training points helps fighter types.
What is the power imbalance?
In previous games we had removed all ACP and speed penalties for armour to reflect the iconic fantasy look of people wandering around in armour, rather than everyone tossing it and going with a higher DEX. We play tested this, as we had play tested the mana rules, and found that it didn't make a profound difference.
In EQ I was starting by playing the game straight up, before making radical changes or house rules. I dipped my toe in by giving the pure melees a leg up, but now I am thinking it should be for everyone as we decided previously.
This takes away a bonus I was giving to pure melees, so I am looking to rectify that by giving them another bonus in extra training points.
The power imbalance is raw power and versatility on the caster's side vs. only raw power on the melee side, which is the same issue that exists in PF and D&D. I thought that this would be fixed by the cost of spell acquisition, but I am seeing the melees fall behind even with it.
But pure casters didn't get any benefit.
Not that I'm complaining, just trying to understand. What are you taking away from fighters?
To summarize...
Was: Benefit to pure fighters.
Will be: Benefit to everyone wearing armor with an ACP/
I'm fine with that.
But pure casters didn't get any benefit.
Arcane casters (enchanter, wizard, necromancer, magician) do not get any benefit it is true, but the other pure casters (druid, shaman, cleric) all will see a potential bonus. Considering the raw power in the arcane classes, I am not overly worried. There is a benefit for hybrids, since they, like their wisdom-casting brethren, potentially wear armour, but as we saw in the previous game, this is not a huge difference.
e.g. This will permit a high level fighter to be able to jump, swim, climb, et cetera in heavy armour as well as they can outside of it. Compared to a caster that can teleport, levitate, hold their breath forever, et cetera, I don't see that being fair.
The goal is to close a perceived gap between pure melee and casters so everyone has a chance in the sun. With that in mind we can either hobble/hamper casters (never a popular decision), or buoy up the pure melee. I have chosen the latter.
Chatted with Ilina's player and their schedule is too restrictive to commit to a once per day posting expectation.
Ilina will exit stage left in short order.
No complains from this small corner.
No complains from this small corner.
<blown away and stuff>
p.s. Now, will it go live in the evils game, that's the answer that Russ awaits...
Let's separate those two things. One is a rules change that according to your play testing, didn't make that big of a difference. Yay! I can assure you, Gwendalyn will soon forego a new spell to get full plate instead.
The other is a question of how to balance pure melee vs. magic. You've phrased it in terms of power vs. power + versatility, so a change that gives them more power isn't the answer. If you increase training points, then no increase in max stat buys (I didn't know there was a cap). Maybe an increase in skill points would be better? Or a combination with a couple more skill points per level and a couple more training points per level?
But does everyone really believe there's an imbalance? Seriously, Revery's too powerful/versatile and you'd better not piss him off? :-)
One thought I had was that magical armour would have no ACP and speed reduction, but mundane armour would.
I can assure you, Gwendalyn will soon forego a new spell to get full plate instead.
Full plate still comes with serious weight considerations, the need to get someone else to help you don it across the space of 4 minutes, a significant price tag, fatigue from sleeping in it overnight, a need for proficiency, et cetera.
As long as none of that scares you off, I think plate would suit you well.
The other is a question of how to balance pure melee vs. magic. You've phrased it in terms of power vs. power + versatility, so a change that gives them more power isn't the answer. If you increase training points, then no increase in max stat buys (I didn't know there was a cap). Maybe an increase in skill points would be better? Or a combination with a couple more skill points per level and a couple more training points per level?
In providing them with additional training points I am giving them the ability to choose any of those things, since training points can purchase feats, skills, attributes, resistances, et cetera.
At the point where I see the rogue dominate a scene (without throwing 600+gp worth of poison vials) I will worry about his power, but thus far not so much.
But does everyone really believe there's an imbalance? Seriously, Revery's too powerful/versatile and you'd better not piss him off? :-)
Enchanters simply tash their foes, so they don't worry about their resistances, since they are one attribute focused their saves vs. are higher as well, and they mesmerize them. Load up more and more negative effects like lowering stats/slowing them, and they can simply sit down and change spells if need be. Like a cat they can off them once they have tired of playing them.
Yes, they are a significant factor in battles.
Would knowing that you get extra training points make you want to switch from caster of any sort to melee?
But does everyone really believe there's an imbalance? Seriously, Revery's too powerful/versatile and you'd better not piss him off? :-)Enchanters simply tash their foes, so they don't worry about their resistances, since they are one attribute focused their saves vs. are higher as well, and they mesmerize them. Load up more and more negative effects like lowering stats/slowing them, and they can simply sit down and change spells if need be. Like a cat they can off them once they have tired of playing them.
Yes, they are a significant factor in battles.
Would knowing that you get extra training points make you want to switch from caster of any sort to melee?
Even with Tashan (-6 on Magic resistance), that skeleton seemed to have plenty of resistance. I did it 20 damage, and it took 10. When I get 6th level spells I can up that reduction to -8 with Tashani...
And how can Revery "off them"? He is terrible in melee, so he just doesn't do it.
I have no interest in changing classes. Have others shown interest in changing classes to a powerful arcane caster?
Even with Tashan (-6 on Magic resistance), that skeleton seemed to have plenty of resistance. I did it 20 damage, and it took 10. When I get 6th level spells I can up that reduction to -8 with Tashani...
And how can Revery "off them"? He is terrible in melee, so he just doesn't do it.
You're the apex predator in controlling the battlefield.
What would I do in your situation?
- Root like it was going out of style, since these are all melee combatants they are useless when your party backs up.
- Use my pet to do damage, since it's a magical being, and might take a hit or 3.
- Soothe, if I'm not rooting, I should be mezzing.
- Charm: one less opponent, one bonus ally.
- Slow: Cause then they're not hitting as fast.
- Memory Blur: A battle that just started might not need to be.
What is Root?
I don't have that many spells... I have to choose them carefully.
I forgot about my pet. He should have been here for this combat... Oops!
What is Root?
I don't have that many spells... I have to choose them carefully.
I forgot about my pet. He should have been here for this combat... Oops!
Root is a level 3 spell, I think doing this from my phone, that sticks people to the ground. It's amazing!
Oh yes, I almost took that one. Tough decisions!
Question For Kwen?
what are the character creation guidelines for your game?
and do you approve an evil aligned and somewhat spoiled High Elf Enchanter?
Pretty much once a day posting for the evil group, I understand if you will have to bow out due to things going on IRL. Tis up to you if you wish to play, Standard 27 point buy in the Everquest player's handbook.
give me till monday. and i will do what i can to construct the "monochrome puppeteer of freeport".
i can try for once a day 5 days a week if possible, if allowed to make exceptions for family reuinions and the like. i may be late on some days.
Saturdays i have issues
and a randomly determined weekday ranging from monday to thursday.
and other days
i will try to make up for.
If you have things that are taking up your time, there will be no harm in not joining. If you are busy it's okay, It is going to be a while before we get to a point to get your character to join up with the party. At least a week before someone new can be added, so don't try to swap your life and work schedule around just to post in my game.
If you have things that are taking up your time, there will be no harm in not joining. If you are busy it's okay, It is going to be a while before we get to a point to get your character to join up with the party. At least a week before someone new can be added, so don't try to swap your life and work schedule around just to post in my game.
is a post a day, 5 days a week fine?
if i inform you of outings with a matter of hours notice?
I don't think so, it could result in you having to build a new character once a week, due to combat or a social sitituion that I need everyone to give me their input, thus that throws a wrench in the works. So rather than having you run the risk of losing a character a week. If I choose to run another game, where the posting is more relaxed, I will inform you of that possibility.
I don't think so, it could result in you having to build a new character once a week, due to combat or a social sitituion that I need everyone to give me their input, thus that throws a wrench in the works. So rather than having you run the risk of losing a character a week. If I choose to run another game, where the posting is more relaxed, I will inform you of that possibility.
okay. thank you.
We're a tough crowd!
I am running a game where people post every two or three days on average. One person quit because he "couldn't keep up." Well, if you're doing PBP or PBEM and posting 1/week, it's going to take you a looooong time to reach second level!
Not to mention (okay, I will mention) a few games where the DM would disappear for a month and then appear and say "to move things along, the combat is done." When he did this and told us we were at 25% hit points after fighting one modified goblin, and I asked why, and was not given an answer; that was it for me.
Hmm, chatty today, am'n't I?
We're a tough crowd!
I am running a game where people post every two or three days on average. One person quit because he "couldn't keep up." Well, if you're doing PBP or PBEM and posting 1/week, it's going to take you a looooong time to reach second level!
Not to mention (okay, I will mention) a few games where the DM would disappear for a month and then appear and say "to move things along, the combat is done." When he did this and told us we were at 25% hit points after fighting one modified goblin, and I asked why, and was not given an answer; that was it for me.
Hmm, chatty today, am'n't I?
every 2-3 days is perfect for me. got links?
I'm not recruiting right now. But myth-weavers is always starting up new games (many game systems). And the yahoo group DnDcontact@yahoogroups.com is another place where people advertise for players...
Root is awesome. I would've gotten it, but Revery can get it as a lower-level spell (therefore cheaper), yet with a higher DC. I just noticed, his DCs might be one point too high? (Probably from when you had that belt.) I don't envy your difficult decisions on 5th-level spells, since there are so many good ones, but I have to say that Mesmerization is iconic.
You will need all the help you can get in the future, which is why I have two NPCs in the group right now. I plan to only run Nogglegrop though, so I offer the first person who wishes to the opportunity to run his attacks (the person can change each round).
I will set you up with the first round.
Here's his link, which is also linked to the "tainted touch of my caress" in my sig line.
We're a tough crowd!
If you think we're bad, there's another group on these very boards that requires 3 posts per day at specific times. I thought I was a rabid poster until I saw that. Comparatively we're slack :)
Mesmerization is iconic.
I second this. Mez is the greatest battlefield control spell in the game, and is the bailiwick of the enchanter primarily *.
* bards and to a lesser extent necromancers against undead can do it too
Root is awesome. I would've gotten it, but Revery can get it as a lower-level spell (therefore cheaper), yet with a higher DC. I just noticed, his DCs might be one point too high? (Probably from when you had that belt.) I don't envy your difficult decisions on 5th-level spells, since there are so many good ones, but I have to say that Mesmerization is iconic.
Good catch, I thought I had fixed that, but either I didn't or I failed to save the sheet at the time.
As for iconic spells, this is my first time playing an Enchanter, or any spellcaster in this game. So I know nothing from iconic... And Revery, who is an Enchanter with a low Cha, is not the iconic enchanter.
and the freshly undead barbarian burst in, hot on her heals.
<hands award for the most apt typo ever>
So Evil is live just in case you were worried. I will have post out again tomorrow around 4pm Eastern time, you have been warned: Post today or tomorrow if you are busy :)
and the freshly undead barbarian burst in, hot on her heals.<hands award for the most apt typo ever>
Oops! Fixed. <puts award next to other similar ones>
HOT!
Wow! 3 per day at specif times?! I thought we were hardcore, damn. Sorry that the weekends won't work out for you Lumiere :)
I think that there should be plenty of games that move a slightly slower pace, it just might take a bit of hunting to find them :) Mike already mention 2 great sites to hunt down more groups, I can add that myth-weavers would be pretty high up there on people looking for players :)
Good luck chummer :)
Wow! 3 per day at specif times?! I thought we were hardcore, damn. Sorry that the weekends won't work out for you Lumiere :)
Here's the game I mentioned with the posting 3x per day at specific times. Of interest, they started right at the same time that we did, with 7 players, but they have 106 pages of posts, compared to ours.
We didn't even know what hardcore looked like : )
Sajeek, when you heal yourself, the same numerical amount of subdual damage gets healed too. So you should have no subdual damage remaining..
I know, Bast is the one with the nonlethal damage. Wrong kitty :P
But thanks :)
Greetings seekers! By now you have managed to help slay me, I Swenj had taken a barter nay, a bargain for power thinking myself cleverer than the Shissar. I saw my own death at the hands of Pravus Mortis; though at the last moment I saw new players enter the field, the nercomancer who had his mind stripped by his closest family member. The shaman who bargained who spirits, binding them closer than one could imagine, the fool Shadow Knight who would fall instead of heading advice from his traveling companions. The Iksar Monk who would challenge the zealotry of his people, and the Shadow Knight Bard who would witness the greatness of his friends.
<scratches his head>
No clue what/where that's from/about.
I'll do some edits, that was typed in a hurry before I had to leave the house without my phone, errands to run to say the least. I need to add more flavor text and some other things.
Referring to "hardcore": it's actually taken me a long time to get the games that I want, with the right pace. It's easy to end up in a game where they expect multiple long roleplaying posts per day, because everyone else can (for whatever reason). It's also easy to end up in a game where things hardly ever happen. The sweet spot (for me) of a post a day is much less common than the games that say they're gonna do it. I've compensated by getting four other almost (but not) daily games, instead of two other actually daily games.
I'll do some edits, that was typed in a hurry before I had to leave the house without my phone, errands to run to say the least. I need to add more flavor text and some other things.
LOL no worries, I was just wondering if I had suffered some sort of breakdown during our break.
The text as written is fine, I'm just wondering when I get the rest of my 12,000gp via the wealth by level : )
Referring to "hardcore": it's actually taken me a long time to get the games that I want, with the right pace. It's easy to end up in a game where they expect multiple long roleplaying posts per day, because everyone else can (for whatever reason). It's also easy to end up in a game where things hardly ever happen. The sweet spot (for me) of a post a day is much less common than the games that say they're gonna do it. I've compensated by getting four other almost (but not) daily games, instead of two other actually daily games.
I find that slower than a post a day is actually more work for me because it forces me to check the game more often to be involved, rather than just me dropping by once and throwing out a single post when I am crazy busy like.
Glad we're in a sweet spot, not sure how that will affect you running a game though lol.
Edit: Sorry your GM tried to get clever and didn’t do any proof reading:
Greetings seekers! By now you have managed to help slay me, I Swenj had taken a barter nay, a bargain for power thinking myself cleverer than the Shissar.
This part is good.
Please disregard the the rest of the text I need to sit down and hammer something out that is much more worthy. So just mentally scribble out the rest if the passage
Monies! really? Yeah you will get some coinage soon... or will you :)
You will need all the help you can get in the future, which is why I have two NPCs in the group right now. I plan to only run Nogglegrop though, so I offer the first person who wishes to the opportunity to run his attacks (the person can change each round).
I will set you up with the first round.
Here's his link, which is also linked to the "tainted touch of my caress" in my sig line.
This.
I will run him this round only. After this you will be hurting units without him, so I hope someone steps up.
I will take over his attacks from next round.
Watch out, undead!
sorry Mike, I was on a roll. You can has the Jinx puppet this round :)
I have a lot of work all of a sudden, and I might not be able to post again until sometime tomorrow (Thursday) night.
Sorry bout the lack of well written posts from me. I'm working 17 hour days 4x a week.