First of all, obviously, since this is posted under the campaign setting, I'm talking about Golarion. What I want to know is how directly involved are Golarion's deities in your particular games. Do they exert forceful will in shaping the events of the world, of character's destinies? Are they a guiding influence for religious minded player characters or NPCs? Or are they nothing more than a nice pantheon of flavorful options to make Golarion seem like a quasi-medieval, polytheistic society?
I'm interested in how this is run in other people's games.
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In our home games we have this system that when someone calls out to their god the GM can call for a god check. The GM and player each roll d% and if their numbers match or are close enough for the GM, the god hears them and does something to help. This has actually saved PCs a couple times, and I had one character come back to life because of a party member calling upon their god.
In our home games we have this system that when someone calls out to their god the GM can call for a god check. The GM and player each roll d% and if their numbers match or are close enough for the GM, the god hears them and does something to help. This has actually saved PCs a couple times, and I had one character come back to life because of a party member calling upon their god.
Wow, that is a really cool idea. I might just steal that!
I'd still love to hear from a bunch more people... :)
Is there a glitch? I see that proftobe made a post, but I don't actually see the post. Proftobe, if you're around could you repost your content?
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I've had both limited and deeply involved gods in my games. What seems to work though for my group is similar to CalebTGordon. But instead of similar numbers on the percentile roll, it scales with level. For example if your a 3rd level character non divine caster, you call on your god, you have a flat 3% chance to influence your god, possibly more if you have tried to advance your gods power and influences. If you are lets say a cleric at 3rd level it is about 6% to 10%
thats roughly the rule of thumb for my group. It scales via DM but all in all thats the simple idea. The kicker is every miracle performed is a target to villians of a rival faith, demons, devils, etc. As well as for those who either want to exploit your divine connection, or follow you as a prophet of there god!!
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When I was a younger DM, deities had much more direct influence in my games. Now however, I generally disalow "god calls" or other such mechanics by any players. If I feel Deific intervention strengthens the story, then I do so through subtle manipulation or if direcet action is necessary by a proxy. The listing of deity agents and hearlds provided by Paizo is extreamly helpful in this.
When I play a particular PC, I also set aside a few sentances in his background to determine the level of his devotion, if any, to a religious creed. Hopefully this gives some insight into the PC for both the GM and me as I prepare for the roll. But even if I am playing a PC who is particularly zelous I look at it as just one of the facets to enjoy play around and not a defining one.
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I started writing this post and realized I actually have a lot of thoughts on this.
Story
Story-wise, I try to use the gods differently based on their origin.
The ancient gods like Asmodeus and Pharasma are involved in way more worlds than just Golarion. They don't ignore the world by any means, but won't directly intervene unless something's happening that threatens their long-term interests across multiple worlds. They do have servants that deal with the more day-to-day questions of Golarion, but even those tend to take a very long view.
The local gods like Cayden Cailean and Iomedae are more hands-on and impulsive. They take more direct interest in their home planet's fate, doing their best to twist things this way and that. Even so, they don't tend to show up in a beam of light and start smiting. Signs to the right people do just as well and don't attract as much unwanted attention.
I feel like the gods have amazing but finite power. Even a good god who wants to solve all the worlds' wrongs can't, so they need to pick and choose their battles. So only expect them to ride in when things have gone seriously off the rails.
The other half of that is that I see gods being reluctant to intervene directly in any situation where other gods would oppose them. There's no formal agreement, but even Gorum can't afford every fight turning into a divine knock-down drag-out. So a lot of what divine protection provides is actually deterrence.
I think that's particularly interesting because it leaves a lot of room for doubt. Desna didn't come down to help us with our plague, but is that because she doesn't care or because her threats of retaliation were preventing other gods from making it even worse?
Play
In play, I have a fondness for dreams providing hints of the god's desires or giving clues. They intervene almost exclusively through their mortal followers and planar servants.
Any direct intervention, be it magical or through an avatar, would usually be restricted to leveling the playing field. Which is to say: If an enemy managed to summon an avatar of Lamashtu, the party could count on Desna's aid in a very tangible manner.
Mechanics
Mechanically, I lean pretty heavily on advantage (roll twice and take the higher) to reward good description in my games. So if someone roleplayed invoking their character's god (or another god) appropriately, I'd cheerfully give them advantage but probably leave it an open question whether where the "assist" came from.
I also allow a lot of rituals (non-combat magic based on Knowledge skills and often tied to special locations). Many of them are religious in nature, trying to call divine servants or their attention to a certain place.
Cheers!
Landon
I'm loving the responses so far, great things to think about. Keep 'em coming. :)
In our Golarian, the gods are very involved, but usually in indirect ways.
In Kingmaker, when our Desna worshiping king was crowned, a ring of monarch butterflies landed in a complete circle on his head giving the look of a crown. The people assembled took that as Desna's blessing and sanctioning of the king's reign. The king now wears a crown of gold and silver butterflies.
When the King married, the hills overlooking the town filled with animal onlookers like it was a scene out of a Disney movie. Those assembled took the event as a blessing from Erastil.
Later, at the King's Table - our main council - when war with Brevoy was being loudly debated, the King slammed his fist on the table to silence the group and the table cracked leaving behind the distinct appearance of a greatsword in the wood surface. We invaded Brevoy immediately.
You get the picture. There's been no direct contact or intercession by the gods, but everyone around our table "sees" their influence.
kaishakunin, I see those influences as a sort of direct involvement, even though they are subtle, for those that are faithful, those signs would be very important. The greatness of that type of sign is that no other god would really consider such a thing an act of provocation (at least not imho) but it still gives characters the idea that the gods are watching, and that their actions can be blessed or cursed.
I've been toying with the idea of deific dreams to direct some characters down certain roads. I'm worried about it coming off as sort of "rail-roady." Which I explicitly do NOT want to do. I run a fairly sandbox type of campaign, and while I have a few places and quests I'd like the characters to explore or undertake, I never want to force their hand, so to speak. I'm really enjoying everyone's information about deities in their games, so please keep those coming. It's helping me formulate my own ideas, and decide how I want to proceed.
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For me, most of the "gods" are just powerful, epic level NPCs. Most are CR 26-30, but some are in the low 30s.
If you've ever read the FR novel, Finder's Bane, that book is the inspiration for how I see deities' powers. However, only a small handful of deities actually care anything about their mortal followers, unlike the book, so only a few PCs could even "call on" their deity. (Why would Cayden or Desna or Pharasma care anything about you?!?) I figure, if I'm Sarenrae and you're a Cleric of Sarenrae, you're my bi+ch; do whatever I say; you're nothing without me giving you spells. Nothing. Of course, that's considerably different from the traditional Fluff of a Cleric.
I'm not a fan of having a Deity answer those kinds of deux ex machina calls in a session -- unless you got a Miracle] spell.