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Upgrading gear question


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

Shadow Lodge **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

If i have a masterwork weapon and I want to buy up to a +1 version of said weapon can I just pay 2000 gp and have my weapon changed to +1 or will I have to buy a whole new weapon?

Sczarni **

Just the difference.

*

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

BUT: You have to have enough prestige to be able to buy the whole amount.

*

Not to just buy the +1 you don't.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka CRobledo

So for the OP's sake, here is the clarification:

You may indeed pay the difference between MWK and a +1 armor/weapon.

The new TOTAL cost of the weapon is 2000 + cost of MWK weapon.

You must have enough FAME to afford the TOTAL cost of the weapon, not just the upgrade.

in this specific case, this last requirement is waived because +1 weapons and armor are in the "always available" list, therefore have no fame requirement.

Shadow Lodge **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Ty all great to here back so quickly helps put my mind at ease if I decide to invest in a nice special material heavy flail for my Groetus cleric here soon.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Note that unlike adding magical enhancements, special material weapons have to be bought fresh (unless the material says otherwise, as with alchemical silver).

Shadow Lodge ***

Jiggy wrote:
Note that unlike adding magical enhancements, special material weapons have to be bought fresh (unless the material says otherwise, as with alchemical silver).

Hmmm i don't think it does

Silver, Alchemical:

Spoiler:
A complex process involving metallurgy and alchemy can bond silver to a weapon made of steel so that it bypasses the damage reduction of creatures such as lycanthropes.

On a successful attack with a silvered slashing or piercing weapon, the wielder takes a –1 penalty on the damage roll (with a minimum of 1 point of damage). The alchemical silvering process can't be applied to nonmetal items, and it doesn't work on rare metals such as adamantine, cold iron, and mithral.

Alchemical silver has 10 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 8.

That sounds like something you do during the forging process, not just electroplating.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

If you're still in the process of forging, then there's not yet a "weapon made of steel" for you to bond the silver to, is there?

Shadow Lodge ***

Jiggy wrote:
If you're still in the process of forging, then there's not yet a "weapon made of steel" for you to bond the silver to, is there?

Sure there is. As soon as mr smith starts pounding away on a piece of hot iron he's forging a weapon , not forging a peice of hot iron.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Then come at it from the other direction: I hold in my hand a weapon made of steel. The rules say a process can be used to apply silver to a weapon made of steel. Therefore, the rules say a process can be used to apply silver to the weapon in my hand. Done.

Shadow Lodge ***

You're making a semantics case to go against a general rule. It doesn't say, flat out, that the process can be applied latter. You're inferring it. It doesn't have to mean A specific weapon like the one in your hand, it sounds like its referring to weapons made of steel in general, ie great swords, short swords, halberds, axes etc.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

It doesn't specify when the silver has to be applied, but if it can't be applied to a weapon that already exists, then the very first line you quoted in your spoiler becomes false: "A complex process involving metallurgy and alchemy CAN'T bond silver to a weapon made of steel".

Besides that, the entire entry is written in like you're talking about applying silver to existing items, much in contrast to all the other special materials:

• The other special metals talk about what can and cannot be made of that material, while silver talks about what can't have the process applied to it.

• The other materials talk about the effects of an item made of that material, while silver describes the effects of a "silvered" weapon.

• The other materials assume the reader is intelligent enough to know an item can't be made of two materials at once and therefore don't reference each other. But silver goes out of its way to point out that the process "doesn't work on rare metals such as adamantine, cold iron, and mithral", implying that the authors assumed someone might think they could - which doesn't make much sense unless you can apply it to an existing item.

-------------------------------

I'm not rules-lawyering, I'm reading without an assumption that it works how I'm already expecting/used to.

Shadow Lodge ***

Jiggy wrote:
It doesn't specify when the silver has to be applied, but if it can't be applied to a weapon that already exists, then the very first line you quoted in your spoiler becomes false: "A complex process involving metallurgy and alchemy CAN'T bond silver to a weapon made of steel".

It might be. But i wouldn't take it as a given.

Quote:

Besides that, the entire entry is written in like you're talking about applying silver to existing items, much in contrast to all the other special materials:

• The other special metals talk about what can and cannot be made of that material, while silver talks about what can't have the process applied to it.

-Because an adamantite sword is 99.44% pure adamantite. A silver sword isn't mostly silver.

Quote:
• The other materials assume the reader is intelligent enough to know an item can't be made of two materials at once and therefore don't reference each other. But silver goes out of its way to point out that the process "doesn't work on rare metals such as adamantine, cold iron, and mithral", implying that the authors assumed someone might think they could - which doesn't make much sense unless you can apply it to an existing item.

-Exactly. If this were just an electroplating, why couldn't you toss it on a cold iron longsword or adamantium weapon?

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Because it's an alchemical process that bonds with steel.

Shadow Lodge ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I was thinking along Jiggy's lines, that it is a process that can be applied any time afterwards, but is irreversible. What I'm not clear on is how broad the "does not work on rare metals" is. Just the ones listed, or new once that came out since then? (Elysian Bronze, I'm looking at you.) I suspect it should be read as "does not work on any weapon made of special materials."

Qadira **** Venture-Captain, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Thorkull

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I've always run it as special materials (all special materials) must be applied at the time the weapon or armor are created. It's just easier to manage them all as being the same rather than a bunch of special cases.

Honestly, Alchemical Silver is such a terrible choice for a weapon that I usually just carry a bottle of silversheen and be done. If you're really worried about it, a mithril weapon is a better choice for a special material as it gets you reduced weight, overcomes DR/silver and doesn't apply a damage penalty to the weapon.

Andoran *****

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Jonathan Cary wrote:
Honestly, Alchemical Silver is such a terrible choice for a weapon that I usually just carry a bottle of silversheen and be done.

Even Better... the Silversheen Special Material from Pathfinder Player Companion - Qadira Gateway to the East.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Most of my active PCs have a silver cestus.

*

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Is it a rule that special material wepaons and armor has to be that way from the start?

So I cannot upgrade my +1 Full Plate to a +1 Mithrill Full Plate? Is this correct?

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

That's correct. You can't change an item's basic material as an upgrade.

*

Yep. So don't get in too deep on an enchantment if you are going to want the item to be a special material. That happened to me with my barbarian. No adamantine main weapon (I have an adamantine secondary weapon) for me because I don't want to eat the sell price on a +3 weapon.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Can you add alchemical silver to a natural weapon, in this specific case, teeth? Inquiring goblins want to know...

edit: of course you can't, but it would be cool. Cooler would be adamantine teeth. :(

Grand Lodge ****

Just registered goblingrillz.com

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka CRobledo

Kyle Baird wrote:

Can you add alchemical silver to a natural weapon, in this specific case, teeth? Inquiring goblins want to know...

edit: of course you can't, but it would be cool. Cooler would be adamantine teeth. :(

could you pour weapon blanch on your teeth? I know it requires fire to set properly, but as a goblin you could swallow some alchemist's fire and make that burp count!

*

Kyle Baird wrote:

Can you add alchemical silver to a natural weapon, in this specific case, teeth? Inquiring goblins want to know...

edit: of course you can't, but it would be cool. Cooler would be adamantine teeth. :(

Did that in a home game with my half-orc rogue. I chewed my way out of jail.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
CRobledo wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:

Can you add alchemical silver to a natural weapon, in this specific case, teeth? Inquiring goblins want to know...

edit: of course you can't, but it would be cool. Cooler would be adamantine teeth. :(

could you pour weapon blanch on your teeth? I know it requires fire to set properly, but as a goblin you could swallow some alchemist's fire and make that burp count!

I love you Carlos! Too bad it's only for one attack, but man, that'll be awesome.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Lab_Rat wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:

Can you add alchemical silver to a natural weapon, in this specific case, teeth? Inquiring goblins want to know...

edit: of course you can't, but it would be cool. Cooler would be adamantine teeth. :(

Did that in a home game with my half-orc rogue. I chewed my way out of jail.

I'm pretty sure my goblin would try that even w/o the adamantine. Hmm, what kind of hardness and hit points to natural weapons have?

*

Teeth have a hardness that's roughly similar to mild steel. So I would say that teeth have hardness of about 8. However, I can't see goblins having a good dental plan so I would drop it down to 6. Just above wood, which you will need after you break your goblins teeth.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

They'd still be hardness 8, but like most goblin weapons, their teeth would have the broken condition.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

More seriously though, hit points? Considering getting an amulet of might (teeth!) and adding "anchoring." bahahahhaa

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka CRobledo

Wish you could add some Fortifying stones to yourself, but it says "object".

Get a Cloak of Fangs for more bite-yness...

*

That is the tougher question that I was trying to avoid answering with any seriousness. Any decent hit to the teeth can break them, even a punch from an average str drunk. In addition, a light blade has only 2 HP. So I am going to say that the teeth have 1hp.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

and enlarge goblin. Can get my feral gnasher's bite up to 2d8(?) and can "grab" size huge. >:)

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

need scrolls of strong jaw as well. rawr!

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka CRobledo

Kyle Baird wrote:
need scrolls of strong jaw as well. rawr!

I thought goblins hated reading.... riffle scrolls?

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
CRobledo wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:
need scrolls of strong jaw as well. rawr!
I thought goblins hated reading.... riffle scrolls?

I wouldn't be using them. Too bad we can't buy potions of it. :(

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Washington—Eastern Washington aka WalterGM

CRobledo wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:
need scrolls of strong jaw as well. rawr!
I thought goblins hated reading.... riffle scrolls?

Spell tattoos bro

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Walter Sheppard wrote:
CRobledo wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:
need scrolls of strong jaw as well. rawr!
I thought goblins hated reading.... riffle scrolls?
Spell tattoos bro

With a 5 charisma, I don't think he'll be activating very many magic items himself..

Andoran ***** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Fresno aka Sarta

Kyle, I'm sure members of your party will be happy to help apply weapon blanches to your goblin's teeth in the meantime. ;-)

Taldor *****

members of my party? you mean the food they shipped me with?

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