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Repaying Someone


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

Grand Lodge

I want to know if this sort of thing is allowed. Let's say I had a single Scroll of Dispel Magic that I was carrying around, and then one day, our Party Fighter needed a debuff broken in the midst of battle. I pulled out the scroll, dispelled the debuff, and he thanks me quite sincerely. Can he, at the end of the adventure when we get back to a big city, before chronicle sheets are given it, give me back a scroll of Dispel Magic, and pay for the other one himself?

I understand if this isn't allowed. My own reading of the rules tells me this isn't allowed. Still, I'd like to ask, basically, if it's okay for people to "pay people back equivalently" for something used to their benefit ("I need a potion of Remove Blindness/Deafness" "Oh, you have one? Thank you so much, here is a potion of the same, and I will pay for the cost of the one you gave me in my time of need.")

Qadira ****

nope, sadly it is not. this is one of the things you just have to do when playing a caster sometimes :(

*

2 people marked this as a favorite.

This is why the fighter needs to buy his own scrolls of Dispel Magic, Remove Curse and Break Enchantment.

Even martials can be expected to plan ahead for themselves, even if they have INT 7. This is why my cleric asks if anyone has useful scrolls that he should take and use on them if required. If they don't I tell them to get those scrolls.

Silver Crusade **

1 person marked this as a favorite.

As your local Oracle/Sorcerer/Paladin, I approve of the "hand him the scrolls" plan. And for the love of Abadar, bring your own material components for stoneskin, that gets expensive fast...

Grand Lodge ***

If the fighter already had one purchased and in his inventory, and you used yours during combat, I'd rule the fighter can give you his and at the end of the scenario you'd effectively keep yours while the fighter would cross his off his sheet.

Not technically by the book, but fair enough in mine. Maybe you two traded them before the scenario with the intent to trade back if none were used.

But if the fighter didn't have one at all, then nope.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, Canada—Quebec

1 person marked this as a favorite.

By PFS RAW he can't pay it back, if he volunteer to do it and their is no abuse, I don't think it is a big deal do.

He can however pay it forward, possibly to the same player.

"Pleas Mr. Cleric, use my wand on him, I how this guy my life."

Shadow Lodge ***

This is why my druid asks the quadirans for scrolls of detect animals and plants in advance.

Cheliax ****

I am an advocate for scrolls of breath of life. Past level ~8/9, everyone should have one in a spring-loaded wrist sheath, given to someone who can cast it at the start of the adventure. If someone goes down (and not from a death effect), then a scroll gets used on them, and they mark it off their own chronicle.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Illeist wrote:
I am an advocate for scrolls of breath of life. Past level ~8/9, everyone should have one in a spring-loaded wrist sheath, given to someone who can cast it at the start of the adventure. If someone goes down (and not from a death effect), then a scroll gets used on them, and they mark it off their own chronicle.

Some GMs think that scrolls are too fragile for SLWS's and would give them a chance to be destroyed when they pop out, and/or require they be rolled extra tightly and therefore need an extra action to unroll before using.

Andoran ***

BoL scrolls are a teamwork thing. one pulls and hands, one moves and hands and cleric uses. my teleporting wizard carries them. one interesting thing found out was a dead body is now property of the grappling monster, couldn't teleport him to cleric.

*

Jiggy wrote:
Illeist wrote:
I am an advocate for scrolls of breath of life. Past level ~8/9, everyone should have one in a spring-loaded wrist sheath, given to someone who can cast it at the start of the adventure. If someone goes down (and not from a death effect), then a scroll gets used on them, and they mark it off their own chronicle.
Some GMs think that scrolls are too fragile for SLWS's and would give them a chance to be destroyed when they pop out, and/or require they be rolled extra tightly and therefore need an extra action to unroll before using.

Didn't we have a mutlipage thread a while ago which concluded that neither of these things are supported in any way by RAW?

Seems to me that that is just a bs way to make it prohibitively difficult to breath of life someone. DMs like that are the kind that you unfortunately have to deal with by identifying and avoiding, which is another way to increase your survival odds now that I think about it.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Saint Caleth wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Some GMs think that scrolls are too fragile for SLWS's and would give them a chance to be destroyed when they pop out, and/or require they be rolled extra tightly and therefore need an extra action to unroll before using.
Didn't we have a mutlipage thread a while ago which concluded that neither of these things are supported in any way by RAW?

Define "concluded".

In any case, I just said "screw it" and made my cleric a tiefling with a prehensile tail. It's like having an infinite supply of SLWS's! :D

*

Well I don't think that Mike ever made an appearance, if that is what you mean.

Shadow Lodge ***

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Everyone paste your name, homeroom, and breath of life scroll to the back of your cloak of protection.

Qadira ****

Jiggy wrote:
Saint Caleth wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Some GMs think that scrolls are too fragile for SLWS's and would give them a chance to be destroyed when they pop out, and/or require they be rolled extra tightly and therefore need an extra action to unroll before using.
Didn't we have a mutlipage thread a while ago which concluded that neither of these things are supported in any way by RAW?

Define "concluded".

In any case, I just said "screw it" and made my cleric a tiefling with a prehensile tail. It's like having an infinite supply of SLWS's! :D

and the new item from UE - Monkey Belt.

Shadow Lodge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
nosig wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Saint Caleth wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Some GMs think that scrolls are too fragile for SLWS's and would give them a chance to be destroyed when they pop out, and/or require they be rolled extra tightly and therefore need an extra action to unroll before using.
Didn't we have a mutlipage thread a while ago which concluded that neither of these things are supported in any way by RAW?

Define "concluded".

In any case, I just said "screw it" and made my cleric a tiefling with a prehensile tail. It's like having an infinite supply of SLWS's! :D

and the new item from UE - Monkey Belt.
Ultimate Equipment wrote:


but it can make unarmed attacks and hold or manipulate objects
about as well as the wearer’s normal limbs (though any
activity requiring fingers is beyond the tail’s capabilities).

Does using a scroll/wand require fingers, or just "reaching out and touching someone" ?

Qadira ****

the monkey belt is used (like a prehensile tail for the tiefling that Jiggy was discribing) to retrieve the scroll/wand for use with one or more hands. Much like the Spring Loaded Wrist Shieth (SLWS)...

Shadow Lodge ***

Using a scroll requires full on casting ability: you need to be able to see it, talk, make somatic gestures etc. If you don't have actual hands you're out of luck.

Using a wand requires the ability to speak the command word and point it in the general direction of the thing you want it to work on. Its much more point and click than a scroll, and the tail can probably manage the jabbing motion.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Using a wand requires the ability to speak the command word and point it in the general direction of the thing you want it to work on. Its much more point and click than a scroll, and the tail can probably manage the jabbing motion.

The tail can only retrieve items, not use them.

Shadow Lodge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Using a wand requires the ability to speak the command word and point it in the general direction of the thing you want it to work on. Its much more point and click than a scroll, and the tail can probably manage the jabbing motion.
The tail can only retrieve items, not use them.

With a tiefling's tail, I'd totally agree, but the language here leaves me still wondering:

Quote:

it can make unarmed attacks and hold or manipulate objects

about as well as the wearer’s normal limbs (though any
activity requiring fingers is beyond the tail’s capabilities).

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Where did you pull that from?

Taldor *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:
Where did you pull that from?

He's talking about the Monkey Belt from UE, not the tiefling tail.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

...The belt has a tail? Did not know that.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
zean wrote:
I want to know if this sort of thing is allowed.

From my point of view, getting a scroll of Dispel Magic from Joe during an adventure and giving a scroll of Dispel Magic back to Joe at the end of an adventure would fall under the heading of "borrowing" an item (which is explicitly allowed), whether it's the exact same scroll or not.

Just like if I ask my neighbour if I can borrow a couple of eggs, he doesn't expect to get the same couple of eggs back. It's still "borrowing".

As noted, most people think otherwise, so there will be considerable table variation.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.
hogarth wrote:
Just like if I ask my neighbour if I can borrow a couple of eggs, he doesn't expect to get the same couple of eggs back.

Wait, what? Dang, I need to move to your neighborhood...

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, Canada—Quebec

hogarth wrote:
zean wrote:
I want to know if this sort of thing is allowed.

From my point of view, getting a scroll of Dispel Magic from Joe during an adventure and giving a scroll of Dispel Magic back to Joe at the end of an adventure would fall under the heading of "borrowing" an item (which is explicitly allowed), whether it's the exact same scroll or not.

Just like if I ask my neighbour if I can borrow a couple of eggs, he doesn't expect to get the same couple of eggs back. It's still "borrowing".

As noted, most people think otherwise, so there will be considerable table variation.

Quote:

GUIDE TO PATHFINDER SOCIETY ORGANIZED PLAY p24

Purchasing Equipment and Spells
In Pathfinder Society Organized Play, you may never buy items from, sell items to, or trade items with another player. You may, however, allow another player to borrow an item for the duration of a scenario. You are also permitted to spend your character's gold to help a party member purchase spellcasting services such as raise dead or remove disease.

If it is the same scroll, potion or even things like repairing a sundered sword, I think it falls under borrowed item. I would even allow paying for the owner to repurchase the same item from a boon he own.

The end result should always be that the original owner end up with a legally purchased copy of the same item.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, Canada—Quebec

Michel Lepage wrote:

By PFS RAW he can't pay it back, if he volunteer to do it and their is no abuse, I don't think it is a big deal do.

He can however pay it forward, possibly to the same player.

"Pleas Mr. Cleric, use my wand on him, I how this guy my life."

After retreading the pfs guide, I think you can, in some case pay pay it back (replace the used item). You still always pay forward :)

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Can I pay sideways?

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, Canada—Quebec

Jiggy wrote:
Can I pay sideways?

Yes, you need a Delorean for that ;)

*

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Michel Lepage wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Can I pay sideways?
Yes, you need a Delorean for that ;)

When I was in high school I knew a guy who drove to school in a Delorean. I have no idea why a high schooler had a Delorean, but people usually want to know the story behind the flux capacitor in my living room.

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Washington—Eastern Washington aka WalterGM

The only bit of advice I might have to add to this thread is what my tables do with Breath of Life scrolls. In the 7-11 tables, everyone usually has their own BOL scroll. At the start of the game, they are given to the cleric/oracle/bard with UMD/tiefling sorc with a tail/etc who is serving as the "emergency medic" for that session. Whenever someone drops into scroll range, they get hit with a BOL (usually).

When I GM, I don't track who's it was, but at the end, if you needed a phoenix down, you lose your respective scroll. And everyone else gets theirs back. We don't get into semantics like "how did you know which scroll was his," because I always respond with a wizard did it.

"Oh, I had those arcane marked with our names at the start of the game, of course."

"Well not all scrolls look alike, and the halfling one is half as long."

I assume that the seasoned adventurers took the time to exchange scrolls, command words, etc for their various items. I don't make people roll to identify scrolls that are given to them by other PCs. Although I do make people do perception checks to find potions on each other, unless they go through the "my emergency CMW is in my right front pocket," drill.

The point is that the end product is the same -- someone is raised, doesn't need to pay for negative levels, and hops back into the fight, because everyone is prepared. If someone doesn't have a scroll, then the players decide which one they use. But it never becomes a big deal. The "no repaying rules" as they are is to enhance the level of PFS play, not hamper it. We just don't want everyone permanently donating their gear to one character, who then has a wealth of 500k at level 10.

If someone wants to use their scroll of dispel magic on you, and you want to pay them back for it, just get their dispel next game. Simple as that.

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber

WalterGM: I've also seen the technique of pooling table money to buy a scroll of BOL, then selling it for half at the end of the scenario if it wasn't used.

Call it the Pathfinder Mutual Accidental Death Prevention Policy.

I support that technique as a way for even low level tables with a cleric 5+ to PROBABLY have a "get out of death cheap" fallback.

**

WalterGM wrote:
When I GM, I don't track who's it was, but at the end, if you needed a phoenix down, you lose your respective scroll. And everyone else gets theirs back. We don't get into semantics like "how did you know which scroll was his," because I always respond with a wizard did it.
handy haversack wrote:
...When the wearer reaches into it for a specific item, that item is always on top.

Assuming a 7-11 table has a handy haversack this means if I reach in for WalterGM's scroll of BoL, I should not accidentally get Jiggy's scroll of BoL. Their are two exceptions to this. If I reached into the HH, I would automatically be thinking of Saint Caleth's flux capacitor.

ohh. it never works if you are a moose.
Named Bullwinkle.
('cause that stupid trick never works :)

Qadira ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Curaigh, the handy haversack is indeed handy, but drawing something out of it is a Move action. Since breath of life is a touch spell, using it to bring the very recently dead back requires the caster to either (a) be adjacent to the fallen character, or (b) have a familiar capable of delivering touch spells.

That's why people like the spring-loaded wrist doo-boppers. They let you run up to the dead guy and cast.

**

errp... forgot the one round bit on BoL :)

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Washington—Eastern Washington aka WalterGM

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Chris Mortika wrote:

Curaigh, the handy haversack is indeed handy, but drawing something out of it is a Move action. Since breath of life is a touch spell, using it to bring the very recently dead back requires the caster to either (a) be adjacent to the fallen character, or (b) have a familiar capable of delivering touch spells.

That's why people like the spring-loaded wrist doo-boppers. They let you run up to the dead guy and cast.

(c) You make using a BOL scroll more of a relay race. We did this when we played YOTS.

"Imp grabs the scroll from the bag, flies it to the ranger. Ranger hops on his wolf and runs it to the cleric! Witch dimension door's the cleric to the barbarian!! Cleric casts the scroll and yes, 37 hit points and he's up! The halfling barbarian is up, ladies and gentlemen, what a play!!"

Big Kyle's dragon rage-frowns

Grand Lodge

*Casts Commune*

Oh mighty GMs of Pathfinder Society, please tell me the answer to this question!

****

No, it's not allowed. At some point the person who never has the resources to care for himself will find no one else is willing to continue spending their resources either. And then that person will learn.

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