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Walking Dead TV Series - How you vex me! (spoilers)


Television

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The sheer volume of people that have prodded me with sticks and cajoled me to watch this TV series is truly awe inspiring. Finally I have capitulated, and while I dig the series (bit of a drama/whine soap opera at times, though the sensationalized audio that accompanies the latest bit of gore tends to put that in a good light), but the imagined constraints are giving me a twitch in my eye:

1) "Oh no, our ancient vehicle has broken down once again. Please go forage from all those really new vehicles that are full of gas and get me an ancient hose so we can still be stuck behind that wall of cars we cannot drive through." Uhm, ditch it, walk through, find a good vehicle on the other side and drive away? On that note, you don't need to walk everywhere, get a quad, learn to ride a motorcycle, heck even the guy just up from his coma used a bicycle.

2) Let us die for our bag of guns because you know guns and ammo are hard to find. Hi, Walmart has a sporting section. There's police stations, prisons, private ownership and I hear there's even stores that specialize in guns.

3) I see we are having a great deal of success stabbing these things through the fence, but let's run out into the open where they can bite us, rather than just being patient and wracking up the body count.

4) I want to go left, you want to go right. Hi, if we can't get along, eventually we split up, not just whine at each other ad nauseum. If only this story was about the zombies and how difficult it would be to survive the zombie apocalypse, rather than just a constant stream of lame infighting.

5) An extension of point 2, but it's so glaring that it makes me give it its own point: they keep walking past military checkpoints that were overrun and won't pick up anything. That grenade came of use, and I'm guessing there's 1 or 2 more out there. What they called a tank might of been of use to drive away rather than running through the streets. Heck they even had the CDC guy say that he got the machine gun because it was just lying around out there.

6) Why, oh why, do they keep parking themselves in completely non-defensible places for the night? The walkers just came out of the trees and ate that guy's face! No kidding? Really? Who would have seen that coming?

7) Explosives. Hi.

8) The bad guys don't climb well, don't think at all and just mindlessly come at noise/smell/movement. One brave soul on a steam roller could own this town. They keep wanting to be quiet, so they can search from room to room. If your foe is not employing subterfuge, would it not be better to make noise to draw them out rather than watching yet another person get bitten through the next inevitable series of unfortunate events.

I get that these are untrained people, and they will evolve into something a little less frantic, and a tad more hardcore, but they are also the "us" in that situation, and there's nothing more frustrating than when "you" fail to act.

<wanders off his dias after collecting his recipe cards of rantness +2>


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I love the thread title;

my advice to you is this: try not to think too much when you're watching t.v.; it's counterproductive.


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This was me during all of season 2,

"Fortify the Farm... Why aren't you fortifying the farm? Hello Farm? I want you to meet my good friend, his name is fortifications, I think you'll get along well. "

But nope, lets just leave the farm completely undefended, I mean dirt and wood couldn't be found just anywhere you know.


I like #3


If only there was a gun somewhere near the tank that could help with that crowd...

Yes, he just ran away from that thing that would cut half the block into chunky salsa!!!!!

*twitch in eye*
(twitch in eye)

TheRonin wrote:

This was me during all of season 2,

"Fortify the Farm... Why aren't you fortifying the farm? Hello Farm? I want you to meet my good friend, his name is fortifications, I think you'll get along well. "

But nope, lets just leave the farm completely undefended, I mean dirt and wood couldn't be found just anywhere you know.

Oh the farm, don't get me started on the farm. The walkers in the locked barn were safer from damage (sunburn, crotch rot) than the battle hardened group set themselves up to be.

At least circle the wagons or something.

Taldor

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The show is like one of those safety posters where they show the guy not wearing his hardhat, lifting with his back, about to be hit by the forklift. I think it's meant to be instructional.


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I mean christ, people 7,000 years ago knew how to build city walls. And heres the deal... Humans are WAY more dangerous than zombies!


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TheRonin wrote:
I mean christ, people 7,000 years ago knew how to build city walls. And heres the deal... Humans are WAY more dangerous than zombies!

When the zombie apocalypse comes the group from the Walking Dead show is the one we are going to raid for supplies.

Cripes they'll be easy to find with all their infighting, and simple to slaughter since their defences consist of noticing the zombies after it's eating one of them.


@1) This is correct

@2) Those stores were most definitely picked clean the moment z-day hit.

@3) Correct

@4) Somewhat; the key to survival is to not fight your fellow man but to do what cavemen did to be successful in a harsher environment: work in a team. SO social drama is a must to survive as a species.

@5) Correct

@6) Correct

@7) Correct

@8) Correct

At the end you make a lot of correct points, however I will let you know that they get smarter in character and in writing.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

#3.5) If you are going to raid a secured, confined, place to clear it out of a finite number of enemies, I'd like to introduce your to a tactic called hit and run, or advance and retreat. No use making yourself exhausted and prone to becoming dinner.


#10) If you find more survivors, and one of them is a d#@k, but the rest are cool, try teaming up with cool ones after dealing with the d#@k. They might have talents, skills, intelligence, or viewpoints that your group is lacking.


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It would be a wonderful moment if they had a cut scene where the entire group of survivors were huddled around a TV monitor, jury rigged with a car battery or something, using it like a "How To" series of what to do.

The camera pans back revealing a pile of DVD cases:
- Dawn of the Dead
- Day of the Dead
- Et cetera

Just before the camera completes its sweep you reveal that they're watching Shaun of the Dead.

Then do a few little subtle homages to popular zombie flicks (add in a Barb and have someone bark out, "They're coming to get you!" to her).

p.s. Screw the little flashlights, everyone needs this: LINK


I'm usually not a nitpicker, but there is one thing about the "zombie horde" that always gets me. If they are really supposed to be a mindless horde, why is it that they move as a group so well? I would expect a mindless horde with varying degrees of physical abilities to be running into, over, and around each other constantly, but they all seem to respect each other's disabilities and shamble forward at a well ordered pace. You would think that the more ambulatory in the group would trample, push aside, and crush the less mobile. But have you noticed how nice the zombies are to each other? They all give each other plenty of room to move in their own shambling way.


Terquem wrote:
I'm usually not a nitpicker, but there is one thing about the "zombie horde" that always gets me. If they are really supposed to be a mindless horde, why is it that they move as a group so well? I would expect a mindless horde with varying degrees of physical abilities to be running into, over, and around each other constantly, but they all seem to respect each other's disabilities and shamble forward at a well ordered pace. You would think that the more ambulatory in the group would trample, push aside, and crush the less mobile. But have you noticed how nice the zombies are to each other? They all give each other plenty of room to move in their own shambling way.

The answer is obvious.

All zombies are Canadian, eh!

Click for proof: LINK

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
TheRonin wrote:

This was me during all of season 2,

"Fortify the Farm... Why aren't you fortifying the farm? Hello Farm? I want you to meet my good friend, his name is fortifications, I think you'll get along well. "

They actually tried doing this in the comic book. It didn't work well.


Oh Canada indeed!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Terquem wrote:
I'm usually not a nitpicker, but there is one thing about the "zombie horde" that always gets me. If they are really supposed to be a mindless horde, why is it that they move as a group so well?

Ever watch a starling flock? Starlings are not exactly the brainiacs of the bird family, but as a group they do simply amazing examples of coordinated action based entirely on instinct. In fact starlings and other group animals who act that way have amazed so many people, there's one fellow who's developed a who new type of AI based on that model, demonstrating what could be done with a group of tiny flying robots with very simple programming on a TED Talk.

If you have any trouble understanding the video, the close captioning has 28 languages to choose from. :)


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You must be watching season 1. You have valid points, but it's still a lot more "realistic" than any other zombie show/movie I've seen. And the acting is good.

You're going to like season 3 a lot more. You probably won't like season 2, because there's too much drama that will bother you, so you might want to avoid the middle of season 2.

Just some points:
- There were no explosives and they're hard to find and generally use. So you kill a few zombies... there will be more.
- Tanks use a lot of gas and are high maintenance. I don't think a tank is good for driving around in a world with limited gas. RV isn't brilliant either, I give you that.
- They didn't leave the farm undefended, they had several thousand walkers pressing against the fences they built. So they went down.

I know everyone has the answers about how people should make walls etc, but in my experience, people are quite stupid and useless. I'm sure most of you don't know how to make farm fences either (which the survivors did). Do you have any idea how much time it would take to make a strong fence around that entire property?

In high stress situations I also find that people don't work together very well. In a zombie apocolypse, I'm actually just as worried about getting hit with friendly fire as I am with zombies. People are that crazy.


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Jason S wrote:
I know everyone has the answers about how people should make walls etc, but in my experience, people are quite stupid and useless. I'm sure most of you don't know how to make farm fences either (which the survivors did). Do you have any idea how much time it would take to make a strong fence around that entire property?

We are preparing for the zombie apocalypse, and that's never a bad thing :)

My plan is never to build fences. My default is to wander over to a building that was put together with nothing but time and using solid resources that were fashioned at a time when there was no worries about undead cannibals coming to eat one's face (e.g. bank).

Shadow Lodge

They are regular people - not redneck preppers.

1) I only recall this happening with the RV? For some reason the characters thought having an RV was important. Live and learn...

2) Walmart and gun stores would be picked clean by day 2 for sure.

3) Walkers attract other walkers. There could be some on your side of the fence. Now you are flanked and they get +2 to their attack rolls and sneak attack damage.

4) People always argue, especially in high stress environments.

5) I only remember 1 military check point in the first episode - were there others?


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:


At the end you make a lot of correct points, however I will let you know that they get smarter in character and in writing.

What show were YOU watching? Everyone's IQ dropped about 60 points in season 2.

What I hate the most is the string of useless rescues.

Person 1 gets left behind, persons 2-6 go looking for him/her.
Person 1 is rescued, but in the fracas person 5 is left behind.
Person 7 is appalled that they'd leave 5 behind, goes after him/her.
Person 3 goes after person 7.
Persons 2 and 4 go after person 3.
Everyone comes back, after lots of ammo, except person 2 who died.

COME ON. Someone wanders off, they're good as dead. Stop fannying about.


This would make an hilarious parody. If the person left behind was say, fifteen or twenty feet back because they stopped to tie a shoe. Keep that image in mind while reading the above description.


Xenh wrote:

My plan is never to build fences. My default is to wander over to a building that was put together with nothing but time and using solid resources that were fashioned at a time when there was no worries about undead cannibals coming to eat one's face (e.g. bank).

In season 1, they basically showed that the zombies can burst through any barrier with enough of them (with enough time zombies broke the extremely strong shatter resistant glass doors of a mall). The bank would only be good if you're actually locking yourself in the vault. Then what? No food, no air, no water (no washroom, heh). Food and water are the biggest challenges of any disaster imo.

For the short term, the best thing anyone could do is to get a group of people on top of a gun store and just start sniping everything in your area. Assuming there would be enough ammo. Eventually you clear them out and you can scavenge the area for supplies. Even that can backfire if you attract too many zombies (and they break down your door) or some horde comes by.

For the long term, farm is the best idea. In the city, there's no power for the water pumps. I guess you could survive on rain water if you had a rain barrel. And food will run out. Gasoline doesn't last forever either, old gasoline doesn't work well (people who store large amounts of gasoline learn this the hard way).

Meh, that's my take on it anyway. ymmv.

Taldor

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They should really be making more of an effort to understand the zombies.

Do they go by sight, smell, sound, or all three. If you confuse one, which will they rely on (smell like a zombie, walk like human, vs smell alive but walk like zombie) - they used this trick in one episode and never repeated it.

Why are they clumping up, are they shoaling, or full on schooling. Can a large herd be broken up into smaller groups (so they can't magically push down a fence, and then the smaller groups herded into following a ditch, fence or netting into a kill zone or just diverted away from the camp.

Will they walk up hill naturally, or do they follow the path of least resistance.

Why do some wander, why do some burst down barriers while others just sit still in an area they could get out of.

Are zombies susceptible to a head-smashed-in buffalo jump type scenario where you just keep feeding zombies into a canyon or off an elevated bridge etc...They seem to at times stampede.

Do they freeze over winter (easy to clear an area then), what is the decay rate.

Do they swim, how does water affect them. Presumably a large sail boat or yacht would be a zombie proof way of moving up and down the coastline scavenging. The group is in Georgia right? A state with a lot of coastal islands?

And..... No protective gear what so ever, until the third season when someone picks up a riot shield. If zombies bite and the bite is fatal, make yourself bite proof. Find some chainsaw proof clothing, stab resistant clothing, wear some gloves and proper boots etc... Even if the relevant gun stores / wal marts were sold out / looted immediately the fact that almost everyone who got that equipment is now a walker means that there should be stuff lying around for the taking. Just look for a diesel pick up truck with the gun rack and cammo gear or other signs of a prepper who got stuck and killed.

*shrug*


Robert Hawkshaw wrote:
Are zombies susceptible to a head-smashed-in buffalo jump type scenario where you just keep feeding zombies into a canyon or off an elevated bridge etc...They seem to at times stampede.

The word stampede and the phrase head smashed in buffalo jump in one post...

So much Alberta flavour :)

Taldor

I may have visited the interpretive site as a child. Who ever thought up the idea was a genius.


LazarX wrote:
TheRonin wrote:

This was me during all of season 2,

"Fortify the Farm... Why aren't you fortifying the farm? Hello Farm? I want you to meet my good friend, his name is fortifications, I think you'll get along well. "

They actually tried doing this in the comic book. It didn't work well.

I read the comic, they failed in it too. The closest thing they got was the .... and even then they didn't do s&&# to reinforce that until ......

Then lots of people died.

Lots of people die a lot in that comic...

Don't read it in one sitting.


Jason S wrote:


I know everyone has the answers about how people should make walls etc, but in my experience, people are quite stupid and useless. I'm sure most of you don't know how to make farm fences either (which the survivors did). Do you have any idea how much time it would take to make a strong fence around that entire property?

I am going to reiterate Humans, even with out firearms, are more dangerous than zombies. Humans have been building proper walls to defend against other humans for thousands of years.

And earthworks don't get pushed down.

Taldor

You mean some sort of rammed earth berm that could be easily created with the farm equipment they had on hand?


meatrace wrote:
Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:


At the end you make a lot of correct points, however I will let you know that they get smarter in character and in writing.

What show were YOU watching? Everyone's IQ dropped about 60 points in season 2.

What I hate the most is the string of useless rescues.

Person 1 gets left behind, persons 2-6 go looking for him/her.
Person 1 is rescued, but in the fracas person 5 is left behind.
Person 7 is appalled that they'd leave 5 behind, goes after him/her.
Person 3 goes after person 7.
Persons 2 and 4 go after person 3.
Everyone comes back, after lots of ammo, except person 2 who died.

COME ON. Someone wanders off, they're good as dead. Stop fannying about.

That was mostly because they were struggling with the old world human morality that no-longer works. This was needed to make the leader who he is now in season 3. You are right, they should have left her for dead, but a lot of them wanted to believe they could still have done something about it.

Qadira

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Robert Hawkshaw wrote:
You mean some sort of rammed earth berm that could be easily created with the farm equipment they had on hand?

Utter hogwash. Next you'll suggest using a backhoe to dig a trench at the base of the berm to make it even more defensible.

Cheliax Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Yeah, I've long had difficulty suspending my disbelief in the face of zombie movies due to the fact that zombies lack ranged weapons and love to cluster in automatic-weapon/explosion sized groups. Add to that the fact that they can't get past even a simple wall, and it's impossible to see how they could ever threaten humanity in a meaningful way.

Speaking of not getting past a simple wall, how the hell did a half dozen dudes survive in the prison using only a wooden spoon lodged in the door handles to keep it locked (okay, it wasn't a wooden spoon, but, seriously, what were they using to block the doors that the zombies couldn't crush past but which Rick & co cut through like butter).

Also, you know what building is like a prison, but is super awesome and designed to keep out humans armed with actual weapons and explosives? That's right, a military base! Spin me a tale in which a zombie hoard makes it's way through concrete barriers, blast walls, and past trained soldiers who have spent years drilling on how to defend themselves against invading forces that border on competence and yet these same zombies can't overcome a chain link fence and spoon in a door handle to kill our intrepid heroes.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

@Sebastian - Coming from someone who spent many years on military bases in the Continental US, I can honestly say I don't recall very many concrete barriers and blast walls. Lots of chain link fences with razor wire on top, though. The barriers I do recall were primarily placed around gates with vehicle access.

Cheliax Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Stockvillian - fair enough point. I was mostly trying to capture that a military base is an even better defensive fortification than a prison, but given that I haven't been to all that many, I could be making s~%+ up.


Something I think that is often neglected in these sorts of "talks" about how much better "I" would be at this, regarding zombie apocalypse scenarios is this, zombies may be, in your opinion, easy to stop, but you have forgotton that they are relentless.

It is difficult to operate a backhole, while being attacked by zombies.

It is difficult to build a way, while being attacked by zombies.

It is difficult to reload, while being attacked by zombies.

And they will attack, relentlessly, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, rain or shine, day or night, until there are no more zombies.

So you might catch a break, get a little work done, today, but then tomorrow, and for the next fifty seven straight days, you will be on the defensive. And zombies are incapable of making mistakes.

And you cannot afford to make one either.

Cheliax Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

This isn't so much about how much better "I" would do as it is about how improbable it is that the military wouldn't do better. Sure, zombies are relentless like the Terminator, but the military is built to undertake all of the tasks listed above while being attacked by individuals armed with weapons that are more effective than claw/claw/bite. Maybe lots of people die, maybe I die, but society certainly doesn't collapse when confronted by a threat that can be stopped by 10' high wall. Once the wall is up, the zombies can be as relentless as they want - it's not that difficult to stay inside a walled compound and it's not as if the zombies are going to suddenly learn a new tactic.

Conversely, if the U.S.-f+@~ing-military can't defeat a couple million unarmed, unintelligent, slow-moving foes, then 5 dudes in a prison with a wooden spoon or a half dozen people with multiple thinking-challenged members won't last much longer.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Note that in the world of The Walking Dead, Night of the Living Dead, and hence the entire zombie genre, never existed, per Mazzara and I believe Kirkman. They had no popular concept of shambling dead things until they actually showed up. Notice ho no one ever says the word "zombie".

So no one had ever spent one second pondering how to oppose the hypothetical threat of zombies. Thus, they're making it up as they go.


But technically, aren't they ghouls? And yes, about the military thing.

Taldor

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

10' high wall meet ramp of zombies. ;)

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

True, I mean if "Animal Cops" can get 100 feral cats out of a building without getting too scratched up, corralling and killing zombies should be a piece of cake for any dedicated military force.

Of course, the government would probably send in FEMA before the military and then you'd have the world as presented in TWD. XD

Qadira

The true danger to zombies is that many would be infected before they were understood. Maybe half the military/police are down after the first contact so we cannot really rely on them. It is not the long term haul after we know what we are dealing with, it is the sick people biting and infecting so many before it hits the news to worry about.

Cheliax Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

zylphryx wrote:
10' high wall meet ramp of zombies. ;)

:golf clap:

Well played.

Shadow Lodge

Spin me a tale in which a zombie hoard makes it's way through concrete barriers, blast walls, and past trained soldiers who have spent years drilling on how to defend themselves against invading forces that border on competence and yet these same zombies can't overcome a chain link fence and spoon in a door handle to kill our intrepid heroes.

I think its been said that in the world of the walking dead, zombie movies like night of the living dead never made it big, thus leaving the populace without a how to manual for the zombies, and even the word zombie remains and obscure religious point from voddoo.

So how you get a zombie into an army base is.. you don't. You bring live injured people into the army base, and then they BECOME zombies. You also bring your dead comrades back into the army base, and they become zombies. And then you see a diseased population, line them up against the wall to cull the herd thinking its a normal infection.. and then they all become zombies too.

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Sebastian wrote:
zylphryx wrote:
10' high wall meet ramp of zombies. ;)

:golf clap:

Well played.

<bows>


BigNorseWolf wrote:

Spin me a tale in which a zombie hoard makes it's way through concrete barriers, blast walls, and past trained soldiers who have spent years drilling on how to defend themselves against invading forces that border on competence and yet these same zombies can't overcome a chain link fence and spoon in a door handle to kill our intrepid heroes.

Well, it's worth mentioning that a lot of our military weapons are designed to kill humans, who are generally more vulnerable than zombies; shrapnel wounds, burns, and general concussive force aren't going to stop them. Delay them, possibly; hamper them, certainly. But kill them? Hasn't it been established that only damage to the head will do the trick? I could be mistaken, but most riflemen train to shoot center mass, as head shots are a bit tricky. Fully automatic fire (as from machine guns) would be of limited use because it would just put holes in the zombies but be fairly unlikely to hit where it counts. [I think this general point is covered in the highly-regarded World War Z]

What I find kind of hilarious is that SCA folks living in Europe probably had this thing licked right off the bat. They've packing exactly the kinds of armaments that are perfect for fighting zombies (melee weapons don't draw a crowd of roamers like firearms, and armor is a pretty good way to keep from getting bitten). Not only that, but they've got honest-to-goodness castles, which are perfectly designed to keep walkers out - just drop the portcullis, and you're good to go!

A minor nitpick for me is that the zombies appear to be energizer bunnies. The infection isn't supernatural in nature, which means that these things have some kind of metabolism - they need fuel (in the form of flesh) to keep moving. Given that they're not especially fast (but a lot of woodland creatures are) and that they don't seem to be able to feed off of each other's decaying flesh, I would think that most of these guys should be running out of juice by now.


coyote6 wrote:
So no one had ever spent one second pondering how to oppose the hypothetical threat of zombies. Thus, they're making it up as they go.

The CDC is paying attention to the zombie apocalypse: LINK.

Taldor

Sebastian wrote:
Stockvillian - fair enough point. I was mostly trying to capture that a military base is an even better defensive fortification than a prison, but given that I haven't been to all that many, I could be making s&$# up.

A historic military fort / camp would probably do you though.


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Robert Hawkshaw wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Stockvillian - fair enough point. I was mostly trying to capture that a military base is an even better defensive fortification than a prison, but given that I haven't been to all that many, I could be making s&$# up.
A historic military fort / camp would probably do you though.

A castle.

Good luck with the moat zombie hoard.

<leans back and enjoys another keg of mead>


Boutrange

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