Need help optimizing please: Ranger / Shadowdancer


Advice


This is only a very vague idea at this time, but it may be my next character.

Lets say 15 point buy for all you number crunchers. I'm thinking human, but open to suggestions.

Off the top of my head here is the order I'd take classes in. ranger 1 / zen archer 1/ +4 more Ranger/ Shadowdancer 2/ and all the rest ranger levels.

I want a mobile build that can mix it up in Melee and also pick up a bow and use it effectively as needed.

Ranger for BAB+ TWF build + skills + eventually animal companion I can ride (griffin maybe at higher levels)

Shadowdancer for early HIPS + skills + Darkvision + uncanny dodge

Zen archer for the Wis as AC + FLurry with a bow as needed + Perfect strike with bow + a bonus feat

Thoughts? Questions? Concerns? Feedaback?


If you go with Zen archer you won't be able to wear armor, and your AC will be worse than if you do wear armor. Flurry gets you a -2 to attack the same as rapid shot. Perfect strike and that level of monk are not worth the lost to AC, and the lost progression in the ranger class. The ranger gets free feats so the rapid shot can replace the flurry since both only get you one extra attack. Getting early access to manyshot and improved precise shot is also a plus, and should get help you more than having to reroll once or twice a day. In other words improved precise shot can make it so that the rerolls are less likely to be needed.

For darkvision I would just go with a dwarf or half-orc. For uncanny dodge go with the archaeologist bard archetype. They also have skills, and it also means you don't have to take predetermined feats, and a level dip to get it.

In short 2 level of archarologist, and a half-orce give you exactly what you want from the shadowdancer class. Otherise you have to burn 3 feats and 2 levels.

The dwarf is not a bad choice either. You will be in the back with a bow so the speed won't really be an issue. Taking Steel Soul gives you another +2 to most saves.


I want HIPS from shadow dancer. The second level dip is just for bonuses.


I'd still yank monk. a bonus level in fighter would serve you better. no lost bab, and you could pick up the bonus feat. flurry doesn't stack with rapid shot, and quite frankly, with ranger 6 (I'd hit ranger 6 before taking shadowdancer) you'll have more than enough feats available to pick up all the necessary archery and general melee feats.

going monk spreads your points too thin as it is. You ideally should have good str and dex, with a decent con, and 12ish wisdom. by the time you need to cast more than level 2 ranger spells (level 12), you can buy a headband.

So, what you're looking at quite honestly, is a switch hitter ranger you could take straight out of treatmonks guides.

here: have a link

https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1OI2lQ_FPUpnXD4i3sBLgzvgyOV9l43gKL 0JM83co7iI

the only recommendation I'd make on top, as I don't believe it's been updated, is later on if you find yourself archery heavy (and you might, cuz its damn nice) is to pick up clustered shots.


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
I want HIPS from shadow dancer. The second level dip is just for bonuses.

What level are you playing to?

Well if HiPS is that important I guess you should take it, but the monk level still is not a bonus.


TWF for a shadowdancer is a bit useless... it runs counter to the whole point of HiPS in combat.

I would shoot for Power Attack and either a glaive or some such (plus combat reflexes, lunge, other good polearm feats) or a less feat intensive weapon, like a great sword.

Furious Focus and Power Attack is great for a STR based Shadowdancer who uses Spring Attack and HiPS. Using a reach weapon and possibly lunge makes you that much harder to run down, so I recommend it highly.


It's all theory at this point, but our games usually end around 12-15, but it takes years to get that far.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I had a friend who went rogue 4/ranger 3/shadow dancer X. The sneak attack + HiPS was pretty useful. And it only lost a point of BAB from the rogue levels. Too bad evasion doesn't "double up" like uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge.

We also gave the shadow dancer sneak attack at levels 1, 4, 7, and 10.

This was for a party with just a cleric, warlock (homebrewed for Pathfinder), and the shadow dancer.


In your shoes I think I would make it a point to pick up Hellcat Stealth.

Other than total darkness I don't think there would be an environment you couldn't make a Stealth attempt in.

Archery eats a lot of feats, it might be good to take some Fighter Levels.

Three levels of the Fighter Weapon Master Archetype gives you weapon training, so you can use the Gloves of Weapon Cheese (Dueling). If you do that, might as well make it 4 levels so you can take Weapon Specialization. Getting two feats for archery and Weapon Specialization will help an archer a lot.

Something like a 6 Ranger/4 Fighter/10 Shadowdancer could be very interesting at 20th level if you go that high.

Alternately, I think something based on the Sohei could be very good for you too. They can wear the Gloves of Dueling at 6th level. You'd get some interesting class features and decent skill points to boot. In that case I'd go 8 Sohei/2 Fighter/10 Shadowdancer.

Might be able to do something interesting with one of the Barbarian Archetypes too.


as a heads up, archery does not eat many feats if you go ranger.

the reason for this, is that ranger bonus feats don't require prereqs.

Ideally as a switch hitter ranger, you don't take precise shot or point blank shot, because you're normally only using the bow for a round or two till the enemy closes, then mixing it up in melee.

Feat progression is something like this:

Ranger 1: Quick Draw, Power Attack (human bonus)
Ranger 2: Rapid Fire (ranger style)
Ranger 3: Deadly Aim
Ranger 5: Boon Companion (no brainer for most rangers)
Ranger 6: Manyshot (ranger style)
Shadowdancer 1-2: Furious Focus
Ranger 7: Cleave/Hellcat Stealth/Feat of your choice
Ranger 9: Clustered Shots
etc etc etc

You generally go with a 2her because it isnt feat intensive, and use the ranger bonus feats for the archery feats that have prereqs, so you don't need to bother with them, saving several feats.


Weables wrote:
stuff..

But you have completely ignored the prerequisites for Shadowdancer: Combat Reflexes, (works well with a reach weapon, btw) Dodge, and Mobility... So a switch hitter only works if you go pure ranger, you can't pull it iff until MUCH higher levels if you plan on going into Shadwodancer.

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