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So I have been looking at the Dimensional Assault - Dervish feat tree and came up with a strange corner case, possibly two.
1. If the target you wish to attack with one of your Dimensional Dervish attacks is flying, is it possible to teleport to an adjacent aerial square, attack the flying target, and continue with your teleportation? Of course assuming you have enough movement to cover that much distance.
If the answer to that question is yes. Is it possible then to teleport to multiple squares adjacent to that flying target and make multiple attacks against it? Again, with enough movement to cover the distance.
I know that sounds a little Dragon Ball Z-ish (I prefer to think of Nightcrawler from the X-Men movies) but it seems like it should be possible with the nature of the spell and that feat combination. You are teleporting and attacking so quickly that you can flank with yourself so I don't see why it wouldn't work unless a designer can say "No, that's not how it's supposed to work."
2. If you are effectively flanking with yourself using the Dimensional Dervish feats, can you count as both partners with the cooperative flanking feats? If I have the Precise Strike Cooperative Feat and teleport from side to side against an opponent, I know I can flank with myself (the feat says so), but does that also mean I gain the benefits of the cooperative feat. After all, the person I am flanking with (myself) does in fact have that feat, so it seems like that would be the case.
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I know some people will probably get on this thread and tell me that is over powered, or not in RAI, or that the rule's don't support it in some way. I am open to Rule based arguments or solid logic. But I am really looking for designer input, whether it confirms my opinion or tells me I am way off.
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1) No you cannot due to the following rule:
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range.
You cannot dimension door to a location where you will fall because you cannot dimension door to a location that cannot support you.
Also, while you cannot teleport into a situation where you start falling the following does apply to teleports while already falling:
Casting teleport or a similar spell while falling does not end your momentum, it just changes your location, meaning that you still take falling damage, even if you arrive atop a solid surface.
2) This will vary from GM to GM. There is clearly no RAW in this case.
- Gauss
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1) No you cannot due to the following rule:
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range.You cannot dimension door to a location where you will fall because you cannot dimension door to a location that cannot support you.
I honestly don't think that applies here.
You instantly transfer yourself from your current location to any other spot within range. You always arrive at exactly the spot desired - whether by simply visualizing the area or by stating direction.
There's nothing there about the space being safe for you. Honestly by RAW, this doesn't seem to be covered. I'd allow it because at the level you'll be doing this you have a multitude of options for closing with an enemy, even when it's flying, so it's not game breaking. Also it's cool.
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1) No you cannot due to the following rule:
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range.You cannot dimension door to a location where you will fall because you cannot dimension door to a location that cannot support you.
I honestly don't think that applies here.
If you are using Dimension Door it definitely does apply. DD is Conjuration and the rules for Conjuration magic definitely apply.
I think if you want to teleport into the air with nothing supporting you you can for the reasons Hecknoshow said.
Now you cant teleport something else to the middle of the air unsupported for the reasons Gauss mentioned.
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I think if you want to teleport into the air with nothing supporting you you can for the reasons Hecknoshow said.
Now you cant teleport something else to the middle of the air unsupported for the reasons Gauss mentioned.
No. Because if you read the rules in the magic section for Conjuration Teleportation spells it says you can't do that with teleportation style spells. You can't ignore the school rules based on a specious reading of the text.
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I disagree Karkon, The rules say that "A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it."
Since as the caster of the spell I am not being brought into existence or transported to my location (since I am always at my own location and cannot be transported to it) those restrictions do not apply to me when I cast DD.
The categories are 1) a creature or object brought in being and 2) a creature transported to your location. A creature fitting either of those categories that is transported by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object. It also cannot appear floating in empty space.
Since the caster of DD is a creature fitting category 1 then they can't be teleported into the air but must teleport onto a surface that can support them.
Side note: is the air a surface capable of supporting a flying creature? Does the type of flight matter?
I dont think the RAW of that conjuration description is that clear. To me that wording speaks of summoning spells, not teleportation spells. A creature brought into being to me is a summoning, as is transported to your location. If you dimension door, i am not being brought into being, i already exist on this plane, and I am being transported to ANOTHER location, nothing is being transported to my location.
1) No you cannot due to the following rule:
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range.
Nice rule selection. There is a strong argument that this applies to my case and prevents it from being possible. However, I am not completely convinced that this particular rules selection is talking about teleportation spells. Read the bolded selection by itself, it is not talking about the caster, I will explain in three points:
1. It is talking about: any creature or object // which is brought into being (Creating) // or transported to YOUR location (Calling or Summoning)
2. This selection, IMO, was put in the rule book to prevent people from summoning elephants over the heads of enemies, creating large blocks of stone over them in order to crush them, or creating swords inside the gut of an enemy.
3. All teleportation spells include their own rules on where you can and cannot teleport to using that spell. These rules are always included within the text of the spell and are generally accompanied by the consequences of not following these rules, such as:
If you arrive in a place that is already occupied by a solid body, you and each creature traveling with you take 1d6 points of damage and are shunted to a random open space on a suitable surface within 100 feet of the intended location.
If there is no free space within 100 feet, you and each creature traveling with you take an additional 2d6 points of damage and are shunted to a free space within 1,000 feet. If there is no free space within 1,000 feet, you and each creature travelling with you take an additional 4d6 points of damage and the spell simply fails.
Now, can the general logic of your rules selection be extended to Teleportation spells and regulate this case? Yes, it could and that may be the answer. However, it is not clear to me that the rules you quoted are talking about 1. the Caster or 2. Teleportation Conjuration spells.
Also, while you cannot teleport into a situation where you start falling the following does apply to teleports while already falling:
Casting teleport or a similar spell while falling does not end your momentum, it just changes your location, meaning that you still take falling damage, even if you arrive atop a solid surface.
While this is also a strong consideration I would not be starting off with any momentum. The actual attacking portions of the turn will be the only time I am exposed to gravity and can begin falling. Each attack would last only a fraction of a second. I think in the worst case scenario I would be exposed to gravity for a total of 3 maybe 4 seconds before teleporting back to the ground. I am not sure exactly how the build up would go due to gravity only having intermittent effect on you but if we just say it stacks to a total 3 seconds of falling that is quite a momentum you could build up. However, falling damage is also calculated based completely on how many feet you fell, which would be not many due to the teleporting around so...
The rule you quoted has a basis on the rule above it: "you can't cast a spell while falling unless the fall is greater than 500 feet." Which means, if you reactively cast a teleportation spell when you fall, you are still going to hit the ground and roll 20d6 of damage due to the fact that you fell at least 500 feet if you were able to complete the spell. But how does it work if you start the spell on the ground with no momentum?
Either way you could mitigate this problem with a Ring of Feather Fall or a caster who readies an action to cast Feather Fall on you after your first teleportation.
I stand by my statement.
The categories are 1) a creature or object brought in being and 2) a creature transported to your location.
Since the caster of DD is a creature fitting category 1 then they can't be teleported into the air but must teleport onto a surface that can support them.
How is the "caster" a creature brought into being by the Conjuration spell? That portion is talking about the Creation sub-school of Conjuration.
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Since people seem to think this portion is located inside a subschool section when it is not in any of the subschool sections I will quote the ENTIRE text:
Each conjuration spell belongs to one of five subschools. Conjurations transport creatures from another plane of existence to your plane (calling); create objects or effects on the spot (creation); heal (healing); bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or forms of energy to you (summoning); or transport creatures or objects over great distances (teleportation). Creatures you conjure usually—but not always—obey your commands.
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.
The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range.
Calling: A calling spell transports a creature from another plane to the plane you are on. The spell grants the creature the one-time ability to return to its plane of origin, although the spell may limit the circumstances under which this is possible. Creatures who are called actually die when they are killed; they do not disappear and reform, as do those brought by a summoning spell (see below). The duration of a calling spell is instantaneous, which means that the called creature can’t be dispelled.
Creation: A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates. If the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, magic holds the creation together, and when the spell ends, the conjured creature or object vanishes without a trace. If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence.
Healing: Certain divine conjurations heal creatures or even bring them back to life.
Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.
When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have.
Teleportation: A teleportation spell transports one or more creatures or objects a great distance. The most powerful of these spells can cross planar boundaries. Unlike summoning spells, the transportation is (unless otherwise noted) one-way and not dispellable.
Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane. Anything that blocks astral travel also blocks teleportation.
As you can see, it is a separate paragraph BEFORE any Conjuration subschool sections. It is a separate paragraph AFTER the description of what conjuration subschools exist.
Additionally, it is not saying "brought into being". It is saying "brought into being or transported".
Now, with that said. I can see some of you are trying to state that it is referencing targets other than yourself. However, 3.X/PF design has always referenced spells that target others as the SAME as yourself. Otherwise, you cannot use a variety of spells on yourself because it does not state you can be a target. Since all references to target automatically assume the caster can be a target this would also apply here. You cannot teleport onto a surface that is not capable of supporting you.
IF you choose to go with the interpretation that target is other than yourself then you could not be a target of any spell that does not include 'you' in the target line. Example: Haste. Of course, this is absurd and is clearly not the intent, but if that is the way you want to play it when using teleportation magic you would have to play it that way for other forms of magic.
- Gauss
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The text also does not say it only pertains to other creatures only. If you cast DD on yourself then you are teleporting yourself. Therefore you are subject to the same restrictions, since the rules make no exceptions for you as the caster.
Shadowlord the text says "A creature or object brought into being or transported....."
So just DD onto the flying critter's back for a second. It'll support you, especially if you have a ring of Feather Fall and aren't counted as weighing much.
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The text also does not say it only pertains to other creatures only. If you cast DD on yourself then you are teleporting yourself. Therefore you are subject to the same restrictions, since the rules make no exceptions for you as the caster.
Shadowlord the text says "A creature or object brought into being or transported....."
Wait.
you can not infer what the text says from what the text do not say. The bolded text of gauss do not seems conclusive.
RAW is the most literal reading of the rule. If I cast DD on myself then I am transported by the spell. Therefore I am subject to the school's limitations, barring a stated exception. So far I have yet to see a stated exception.
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So just DD onto the flying critter's back for a second. It'll support you, especially if you have a ring of Feather Fall and aren't counted as weighing much.
It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.
A space occupied by another creature is not an open location.
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The text also does not say it only pertains to other creatures only. If you cast DD on yourself then you are teleporting yourself. Therefore you are subject to the same restrictions, since the rules make no exceptions for you as the caster.
Shadowlord the text says "A creature or object brought into being or transported....."
Ending the quote halfway through the phrase is grievously misleading in this case!
The full phrase is:-
'A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location....'
When the caster is transporting himself he is doing the exact opposite of transporting himself to his location; he's transporting himself from his location. Therefore he is not subject to this rule.
Nicos: Show me where 'target' includes you. If you cannot do that then you cannot cast the majority of spells upon yourself until you are willing to accept that not everything in Pathfinder is clearly stated.
Here is the section on targets:
You must make choices about whom a spell is to affect or where an effect is to originate, depending on a spell’s type. The next entry in a spell description defines the spell’s target (or targets), its effect, or its area, as appropriate.
Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.
If the target of a spell is yourself (the Target line of the spell description includes “You”), you do not receive a saving throw, and spell resistance does not apply. The saving throw and spell resistance lines are omitted from such spells.
Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you’re f lat-footed or it isn’t your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.
Some spells allow you to redirect the effect to new targets or areas after you cast the spell. Redirecting a spell is a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Like I said, show me anywhere where target includes the caster. If you cannot find it, good luck casting Haste upon yourself. If you then decide that yes, target DOES include yourself (which the Developers have stated) then you MUST include that definition in this section as well.
- Gauss
Malachi, your location is where you are when you arrive. That still does not negate the requirement for a solid surface capable of supporting the person being teleported.
- Gauss
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I am not being misleading. You should know me better than that by now.
You always end up at your own location since wherever you end up is your location.
In other words if you go from location A to location B then location B is your new location. Therefore you are still being transported to your location.
In this case I think the location is the general area not that it matters since you still end up at your location.
RAW is the most literal reading of the rule. If I cast DD on myself then I am transported by the spell. Therefore I am subject to the school's limitations, barring a stated exception. So far I have yet to see a stated exception.The text also does not say it only pertains to other creatures only. If you cast DD on yourself then you are teleporting yourself. Therefore you are subject to the same restrictions, since the rules make no exceptions for you as the caster.
Shadowlord the text says "A creature or object brought into being or transported....."
Wait.
you can not infer what the text says from what the text do not say. The bolded text of gauss do not seems conclusive.
Weagainclash in the definition of RAW i guess. But lets see
"A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it."
The interesting part is that it does not state anything about "you" teleporting, it seems to be about you teleporting other things. In this case your rule is not explicitily written.
I am not tasying you are necesarily wrong, but at lesat for me your concluson do not follow from this quote.
You are inferring, not using RAW. RAW just refers to a creature or object being transported. It does not say "other" creatures being transported.
Do you have a reason why the caster should get a pass if there is nothing in the rules to indicate that the devs intended for the caster to get a pass?
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space.
Actually it just says address things transported by the spell. It does not reference the caster at all so that means it applies to anything that is transported by the spell.
I will use a fake example.
A creature or object that is inside the radius of your fireball spell takes double damage if it is upside down.
Now in the case of my fake scenario is there any reason the caster of fireball gets a free pass even though the caster is not given a free pass. I basically just copied and pasted the conjuration rules, and change a few words, but I did not change the context from which it is written. Note that it does not say "A creature or object that is inside the radius of your fireball spell except for you takes.."
RAW is the most literal reading of the rule. If I cast DD on myself then I am transported by the spell. Therefore I am subject to the school's limitations, barring a stated exception. So far I have yet to see a stated exception.The text also does not say it only pertains to other creatures only. If you cast DD on yourself then you are teleporting yourself. Therefore you are subject to the same restrictions, since the rules make no exceptions for you as the caster.
Shadowlord the text says "A creature or object brought into being or transported....."
Wait.
you can not infer what the text says from what the text do not say. The bolded text of gauss do not seems conclusive.
Weagainclash in the definition of RAW i guess. But lets see
"A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it."
The interesting part is that it does not state anything about "you" teleporting, it seems to be about you teleporting other things. In this case your rule is not explicitily written.
I am not tasying you are necesarily wrong, but at lesat for me your concluson do not follow from this quote.You are inferring, not using RAW. RAW just refers to a creature or object being transported. It does not say "other" creatures being transported.
Do you have a reason why the caster should get a pass if there is nothing in the rules to indicate that the devs intended for the caster to get a pass?
I am not saying tha the wizard can do it. I am just aying that your conclusion do not use RAW, you are infering too.
At least for me gauss´s quote do not seems conclusive.
How is my conclusion not RAW? At what point in the writing is it even hinted at that any creature gets a pass?
Allow me to ask a question. Is the location to which you are teleporting your location before you are teleported there. If not then when exactly does it become your location.
When you arrive it becomes your location. The spell is instantaneous so the moment you arrive which is upon spell completion it is your location so you are still arriving at your location.
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Ah, that explains it. You are of the position that the caster is in two places at the same time while simultaneously being transported from one location to the the other. However that position is in violation of the rules on how many squares a creature of a particular size takes up and so can not be correct.Allow me to ask a question. Is the location to which you are teleporting your location before you are teleported there. If not then when exactly does it become your location.When you arrive it becomes your location. The spell is instantaneous so the moment you arrive which is upon spell completion it is your location so you are still arriving at your location.
No I am not saying you are in two places at once. I would never put forth such a ridiculous notion.
I am saying that the instant the spell is cast you are moved to your new location, but since that is your new location you are still subject to the rules of the conjuration section.
Personally I think they should have just said anyone or anything transported by a conjuration spell..... That would stop people from potentially finding a loophole with the "your location" wording. The main point is to avoid having someone transported to an area that can't support them.
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When calculating the parameters of a spell (range, area of effect, etc) these are based on the caster's location when he casts the spell, not after being affected by the spell he's just cast!
When teleporting from the palace back to his lab, the wizard is in the palace when he casts the spell, and in his lab after the spell is cast. His location, when spellcasting, is the place he's teleporting from, not to!
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Ah but that is what you are saying. Since for an instantaneous spell the spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast the start of the spell effect and the end of the spell effect must occupy the same instant. You are saying that the caster is being transported to their final location at the same instant they are in their final location and that is where the problem occurs. Since the start and end of the spell effect occupy the same instant in time the caster must also be in their initial location at the same instant as the start of the spell in exactly the same way they are at the final location at the same instant as the end of the spell, meaning they are in their initial and final locations at the same instant in time.No I am not saying you are in two places at once. I would never put forth such a ridiculous notion.
I am saying that the instant the spell is cast you are moved to your new location, but since that is your new location you are still subject to the rules of the conjuration section.
Personally I think they should have just said anyone or anything transported by a conjuration spell..... That would stop people from potentially finding a loophole with the "your location" wording. The main point is to avoid having someone transported to an area that can't support them.
No it is not what I am saying. You are misintepreting my words. How you are coming up with that nonsensical idea I don't know unless you beleive that instantaneous means two things or places at once, which I am sure it does not.
Oh I see you do think it means that.Instantaneous: The spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast, though the consequences might be long-lasting.
In other words upon completion of the spell you are moved to your new location. At that time it is your new location. Since you are being moved to your location, and take ownership of it at the same time you are still subject to the same rules. If you stay in your old location then you are still subject to the spell's rules. In order to bypass the spell you would have to not be at your location, but that is impossible. :)
Also the beginning and end of the spell don't occupy the same point in time either. If it did then your "two place" theory would be correct.
Don't apply your logic or misunderstanding to me. I want no part of anything saying you can be in two places at once.
When calculating the parameters of a spell (range, area of effect, etc) these are based on the caster's location when he casts the spell, not after being affected by the spell he's just cast!
When teleporting from the palace back to his lab, the wizard is in the palace when he casts the spell, and in his lab after the spell is cast. His location, when spellcasting, is the place he's teleporting from, not to!
So if I teleport but stay in the palace I can't bypass the rule, but if I teleport to the lab then I can bypass the rule?
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So if I teleport but stay in the palace I can't bypass the rule, but if I teleport to the lab then I can bypass the rule?When calculating the parameters of a spell (range, area of effect, etc) these are based on the caster's location when he casts the spell, not after being affected by the spell he's just cast!
When teleporting from the palace back to his lab, the wizard is in the palace when he casts the spell, and in his lab after the spell is cast. His location, when spellcasting, is the place he's teleporting from, not to!
You forgot to add the little smiley face emoticon to show that you're joking...!
You forgot to add the little smiley face emoticon to show that you're joking...!So if I teleport but stay in the palace I can't bypass the rule, but if I teleport to the lab then I can bypass the rule?When calculating the parameters of a spell (range, area of effect, etc) these are based on the caster's location when he casts the spell, not after being affected by the spell he's just cast!
When teleporting from the palace back to his lab, the wizard is in the palace when he casts the spell, and in his lab after the spell is cast. His location, when spellcasting, is the place he's teleporting from, not to!
I was half-joking. I know you really like RAW over RAI so I was wondering what you would say if a player asked you that. :)
My 2 Cents:
Yes, according to the rules on conjuration, DD can't teleport you into the air without a place to stand on.
That said, I feel the intent of the spell was meant to do exactly what the OP wants it to do, to teleport into the air and hit a target before teleporting back onto the ground. That said, that's not the RAW and short of an FAQ to amend the rules on this ability, I don't think the intent matters.
So... You'll just have to settle for beating everyone up on the ground :P
Yeah the spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast. The instant, one single instant. The start of the spell energy coming into being and the end of the spell energy going out of existence occur in the same single instant. If you are in your new location at the same time that the spell energy is going away why are you not in your original location at the same time that the spell energy is coming into being. Why one and not the other.
The magic taking from one place to the next is still in affect during the transportation. I think we can agree the magic is active during this time.
I think we can agree that at the point in time you are arriving that the new location becomes your location. I think we should also agree that since you are being moved to your new location that the rules still apply.
RAW aside I think the main idea is to stop you from transporting anything or anyone into the listed areas. As an example if I find a way to summon a dolphin into a place I am not I am sure the intent is that water should be there.
Darth Grall:
The spell is not doing this. The Spell (Dimension Door) + the feat Dimension Dervish is what is doing this. Dimensional Dervish allows a person to Dimension Door in peices. They still have to follow the other rules for a Dimension Door.
- Gauss
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I was half-joking. I know you really like RAW over RAI so I was wondering what you would of if a player asked you that. :)You forgot to add the little smiley face emoticon to show that you're joking...!So if I teleport but stay in the palace I can't bypass the rule, but if I teleport to the lab then I can bypass the rule?When calculating the parameters of a spell (range, area of effect, etc) these are based on the caster's location when he casts the spell, not after being affected by the spell he's just cast!
When teleporting from the palace back to his lab, the wizard is in the palace when he casts the spell, and in his lab after the spell is cast. His location, when spellcasting, is the place he's teleporting from, not to!
My natural reaction to reading ambiguously written rules is to work out and understand the intent.
When posting on these threads I'll use both, but try to indicate which is which.
My last post for tonight. I don't think your location means your 5 ft square. Otherwise nothing stops you from summoning dolphins in the air since that is not your location.
I think it means your general location.
Looks like a good debate. I will read it more closely and reply to a few things tomorrow.
If you're really interested, please pop back up to the top and hit the FAQ button on my original post.
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There’s a lot of back and forth and reposting going on. To me this hinges on interpretation of the available RAW unless a designer drops in a comments, which probably won’t happen unless I get a lot more FAQ pushes.
@ Gauss:
I read the entire sections of Magic Schools that you were referring to the first time you posted. I was not confused about the location or implications of the rule section you posted the first time. I know it is not in the sub-school portions. I simply do not agree that it is talking specifically, or generally, about teleportation spells. I addressed that in my second post but I will put a more detailed argument here.
Firstly we need to post the entire sentence, not just part of it. (With the understanding this is in the overall description of Conjuration spells not sub-school portions)
It is NOT:
A creature or object brought into being or transported by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range.
If it were, I would have no argument and would have my ultimate answer. But, that isn’t the case. The full and accurate quote IS:
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range.
Let’s not downplay that difference it; that little change presents two entirely different ideas. I will try to use basic sentence structure and basic grammar to decide what is meant by this rule selection and what it is talking about, thereby determining what it is NOT talking about.
1. With a quick, basic read through of this rule selection I can tell it is definitely NOT talking about some of the five sub-schools within Conjuration. It has no application to them and is completely irrelevant to casting them. On the surface level this is talking about bringing something into being (which can include: Creation) and transporting something (which can include: Calling, Summoning, and Teleportation). This excludes one of the five sub-schools right from the start: Healing. That sets an important president: “This section of the general Conjuration school is NOT talking about ALL five sub-schools. It is ONLY addressing a portion of them.”
2. Alright now we need to discern the subject or target of this section of rules. On the surface the subject of this section is very clearly stated as, a creature or object (this could include any creature or object, which can apply to the caster).
3. Now let’s combine points one and two and see what we come up with. A creature or object brought into being can only be talking about creation. I certainly don’t bring myself into being when I cast the spell so that part excludes the caster as a target for the purpose of creation spells and the bringing something into being portion of this sentence. A creature or object transported can be talking about calling, summoning, or teleportation. This could still potentially be talking about the caster in relation to the transporting something portion of the sentence, regarding teleportation spells. Obviously, I do not Call or Summon myself with spells so that excludes the Caster from being the target of that portion of what this selection is talking about.
Now that we have singled out one sub-school that this section is definitely NOT talking about, and gathered up all the possible sub-schools and targets it MAY be talking about, let’s see if the grammar and language of the entire selection exclude any other sub-schools or targets. So far, possible schools are Creation, Calling, Summoning, and Teleportation. Possible targets are any objects or creatures that can be created, called, summoned or transported to include the caster himself.
4. The portion of the sentence, to your (the caster’s) location throws a slightly different perspective on inclusion of targets and sub-schools that this can apply to. I already know that I can’t create, summon, or call myself when I cast, so the last possible thing that I could be the target of is the teleportation portion of this selection. However, now we come to the part of the sentence dealing with location. I can NOT teleport myself to my own location. To think that is what this sentence is talking about you have to use poor sentence structure and poor grammar. This is talking about creating creatures or objects. It is also talking about transporting creatures or objects to the caster’s location. That small inclusion, ”to your (the caster’s) location,” excludes the caster from the possible targets of the transportation that this selection of the rules is talking about. I cannot transport myself to my own location. It is bad grammar and a paradox. I only ever transport myself away from my current location to a new future location.
5. Now that I have excluded myself from the transport portion, what else can I transport? I can transport other creatures and other objects from other locations to my location using the calling and summoning sub-schools. I cannot, however, transport other objects or creatures to my location using any spells from the teleportation sub-school. I can teleport other creatures and objects away from my location to a new future location. I cannot, using any teleportation spell, transport other creatures or objects from a distant location to my location.
6. I have now excluded ALL POSSIBLE targets of a teleportation spell from being applicable to this selection of rules. I pair that with my discovery in point 1, that this rules section is clearly NOT talking about all five sub-schools of Conjuration and reach my ultimate conclusion: This selection of rules is NOT talking about the Healing or Teleportation sub-schools of Conjuration. It is only addressing uses of the Creation, Calling, and Summoning sub-schools. The designers put it in the general Conjuration section to avoid copy/pasting it in the specific sections for three of the five sub-schools in that section, NOT because it applied to all five of them.
We come full circle back to the two versions of quotes I put above - If the designers wanted to include the caster as a target and the teleportation sub-school of Conjuration to the application of this selection of rules, a far clearer and more grammatically correct way to write it would have been:
A creature or object brought into being or transported by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range.
That would have been good sentence structure, good grammar, and would have absolutely included the caster as a potential target and teleportation as an applicable sub-school. That is NOT what was written and the full, accurate quote includes terminology that excludes both the caster as a potential target and teleportation as an applicable sub-school.
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range.
If RAW is the most literal reading of the rules, this section literally excludes the caster from being the target and teleportation from being a sub-school that it is talking about.