Nuclear Bomb damage dice


Homebrew and House Rules

51 to 83 of 83 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

Tels wrote:
I dunno, Monks are immune to poison and disease so they might be immune to radiation. So maybe a properly built Monk could easily survive a Nuke.

They do get Evasion... So at least 5% of the monks inside the blast radius could survive with no problems...

Shadow Lodge

It's best summed up in five words:

Nukes fall, you all die.


Kthulhu wrote:

It's best summed up in five words:

Nukes fall, you all die.

"But I made my Reflex save and I have Evasion..."

NUKES FALL, EVERYONE DIES!

Shadow Lodge

doc the grey wrote:
This came about as a thought experiment as I was working on some things for my weekly game but I have to ask "How many and what kinds of die would you use to calculate the damage of a nuclear/atomic bomb blast"?

Some time ago, someone made up a Character sheet for Caine for VtM. Let me quote them for this. . .

[dice=Bomb]1d"You F'ing Lose"[//dice]

Relfex/Fort/Will Save for You STILL F'ing Lose.

{added // in the dice code, as it defaults to a d6}


So
lava does 20d6 fully engulfed

sun is about 1456 times hotter

a nuke can be 75 times hotter then the sun

so 2184000d6 damage.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

NECROMANCY!!!

anyway

anyone within a mile or 2 in direct LOS would take 20d6 fire damage

then anyone in the initial fiery blast takes something like 20d20

and finally anyone caught in the shock wave then takes 10d10 blunt damage.


The HERO System Equipment Guide writes up a one megaton nuke and breaks down the effects into eight distinct effects; Immediate Radiation, Flash, Thermal Blast, Electromagnetic Pulse, Blast Wave, Negative Pressure, Fires, and Fallout (Nuclear Winter, Lingering Radiation, etc...)

The number of dice won't translate well to Pathfinder, since one die worth of Normal damage in HERO differs from one die of Killing damage, but it's an interesting (and five page long) description.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Nobody likes this because it is more science and math and less everyone dies kind of stuff (which is prevalent in RPGs, since nukes are the ubercool):

According to 2nd Edition Masque of the Red Death (page 72 in "A Guide to Gothic Earth") dynamite damage does the following:

1 stick = 1d6
2-3 sticks = 2d6
4-7 sticks = 3d6
8-15 sticks = 4d6
16+ sticks = 5d6

According to the 1st Edition DMG a stick of dynamite does 6d6 damage or 4d6 if no save is allowed (which I will factor in later).

If I take the 16+ cap off of the number of sticks, use a standard stick of dynamite (0.186 kg with 5 MJ/kg energy density; Source: Wikipedia), then I can calculate the number of sticks required to equal a nuke using 1 ton = 1000 kg.

So one stick produces 930 KJ of energy and does 1d6 damage. After that we have a logarithmic progress for both blast radius and damage:

Log(base 2)(number of sticks of dynamite)+1 = xd6 of damage.

Thus one ton of dynamite is 1000 kg/0.186 kg = 5376 sticks of dynamite.

Using the log base change formula: gives us {[3.32 log (tons rating of nuke/0.186)] + 1} = xd6 (unless you have something that can do log base 2 like Excel).

So we have the following (using Annex I--Nuclear Weapons from 3e Harpoon) (note this does not include the DC 24 Fort save initial and final 2d6 Con damage with a 1d6 hour incubation period for severe radiation exposure from d20 Future, page 81):

0.5 KT (Talos, 152 mm shell) = 13d6
1 KT (SM1ER) = 14d6
5 KT (FRAS-1, SS-N-15) = 16d6
20 KT (Green Parrot or B57 Freefall) = 18d6
100 KT (SS-N-2B/c) = 21d6
500 KT (SS-N-19 Shipwreck) = 23d6

Higher Yields are from Wikipedia:
1.2 MT (B-83 Nuclear Device) = 24d6
9 MT (B-53 Nuclear Bomb) = 24d6
15 MT (Castle Bravo) = 27d6
50 MT (Tsar Bomba) = 30d6

But you may multiply by a Gygaxian 4 (with no save) or 6 (with a save for half, though I wouldn't allow for evasion since the blast radii are typically around 0.5 to 20 miles) if that doesn't feel like enough (though I would just add 3 dice to all my numbers).

Final Note: If a creature does on average 2 extra points of damage in an attack for being 8 times heavier (increase in size class) damage is logarithmic not linear.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

My GM accidentally caused a TPK by unintentionally putting us in a situation where we must stab a highly explosive magical jewel or risk the Big Bad becoming a demigodess and taking over the world. He (electronically) rolled 50d100 and did over 2000 damage. I was the only survivor thanks to a clone spell.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

A Nuke is a plot device best summed up as "If your close enough to notice, you're too close"


If a rogue makes their evasion(Nat 20) I guess that means they hid in a fridge.
PCs and important NPCs far enough away get a mutation. Peasants and laborers get radiation poisoning and Cancer if they survive that.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
doc the grey wrote:
This came about as a thought experiment as I was working on some things for my weekly game but I have to ask "How many and what kinds of die would you use to calculate the damage of a nuclear/atomic bomb blast"?

To avoid boring calculations about how exactly you might benefit from having some cover?

About 40d6 fire damage persisting for 1-3 rounds for those caught directly in the nuclear fireball. 5d6 fire damage to everything outside of it but within the major fires zone. No save. The latter might be a bit too harsh, given that you totally can Reflex save when entire rooms are completely blanketed with magic fire, but let it be just to avoid extra discussion about how your reflexes can help you against the thermal radiation.

Then about 20d10 sonic damage from shockwave within the everything-but-hardened-facilities destruction zone, progressively less as you go further from the ground zero. Reflex DC 20 for half.

Fort DC 40 within the fireball, 30 within the total destruction zone, and progressively less beyond it vs. radiation sickness. Not that it matter for all but lowest-level characters.

A nuclear bomb is not a Sphere of Annihilation. It is just a strong explosive.


FatR wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
This came about as a thought experiment as I was working on some things for my weekly game but I have to ask "How many and what kinds of die would you use to calculate the damage of a nuclear/atomic bomb blast"?

To avoid boring calculations about how exactly you might benefit from having some cover?

About 40d6 fire damage persisting for 1-3 rounds for those caught directly in the nuclear fireball. 5d6 fire damage to everything outside of it but within the major fires zone. No save. The latter might be a bit too harsh, given that you totally can Reflex save when entire rooms are completely blanketed with magic fire, but let it be just to avoid extra discussion about how your reflexes can help you against the thermal radiation.

Then about 20d10 sonic damage from shockwave within the everything-but-hardened-facilities destruction zone, progressively less as you go further from the ground zero. Reflex DC 20 for half.

Fort DC 40 within the fireball, 30 within the total destruction zone, and progressively less beyond it vs. radiation sickness. Not that it matter for all but lowest-level characters.

A nuclear bomb is not a Sphere of Annihilation. It is just a strong explosive.

But it is like a disintegrate spell, leaving only a shadow and no bones.

Probably in or near the fireball.


I think achan_hiarusa might have the right idea about how to calculate the damage based on tonnage. The trick would be deciding how much damage dynamite should do. Even the 30d6 blast would kill all low level characters in the area while the 180d6 blast would kill just about everybody who didn't roll a nat 20 and possess Evasion.

Speaking of Evasion, in a 21st level one shot 3.5 game I played a multiclassed shuriken specialist who got caught in the middle of a bunch of Delayed Blast Fireballs set up by a caster with Time Stop. I guess they must have been converted to some other element since they killed a few Balors who proceeded to explode. I think the total damage in my PC's area added up to around 1,000, but due to Evasion he took 0. How this was possible without a refrigerator is something the DM didn't even bother explaining. Of course I'd also just done over 500 damage in one round with shurikens, so it was basically silliness all around.

H-Bombs? - My Diabolist thinks nukes should do mostly fire damage. Fireballs and Lightning Bolts can blow up barriers without doing sonic damage, so why can't A-Bombs? Fire based nuclear weapons would be very appealing to the forces of Hell! Demonic fire resistance 10 wouldn't mean much against them, and even the Protection from Energy mortals use to counter Hellfire might not stand up against a nuclear blast. Meanwhile for the devils it would be like a day at the beach. Perhaps there could be an AP involving nukes, devils, and interplanar espionage. Maybe the essential material for the Golarion nuke is some pure chaos found in the depths of the Abyss or the madness of Limbo - combine it with pure law and blam!!! Of course since contact between Golarion and Earth is apparently possible there could be more conventional sources for nuclear weapons...


(holy thread necromancy!)

Evasion should never be explained as being in any way shape or form natural once it gets to those levels. It's doing a disservice to whatever equips it, and reinforces the unfortunately-common "Either A WIZARD DID IT or you need to limit it to reality" misconception.

Quite obviously in order for a high level rogue (not exactly high up on the list of "supernaturally powerful entities" in Pathfinder - at least not mechanically) to evade this stuff, which by raw he/she CAN, there's at least some simple phase-out or desynch-drive effect at work. No reactions are used/expended, no actions lost, no time wasted, no change in coordinates or vectors.

So come up with something for the character - anything, but don't just ignore it until you run into the "could he, would he, in a fridge? would he, could he from a bridge?" problem. Perhaps this will mean a small handful of situations where it works but by RAW would not, and a few where it doesn't work by by RAW should have, but it will be 'their' ability.

As for nukes use that log function achan_hiarusa did, but in a few stages, all of which deal full damage to objects.

The Flash deals quarter that damage as fire, quarter as untyped or divine or something (it's not all fire, as it's pretty much the entire spectrum for a moment). No save, cover% = avoidance% of the damage though.

The 'fireball' is fire damage (and its range/radius improves at a somewhat faster rate than the actual explosion) with reflex half IF you have half or better cover. Cheap cover could be worse than none, however, as that cheap copper door may melt upon your hands.

The Hydrodynamic Front itself is Bludgeoning damage, reflex half, but anything destroyed by it continues in that direction for some distances as deadly shrapnel/debris, like cars in a good hurricane might do.

Finally there's the fallout, and you add that radiation damage to your sheet, keeping up to 10% of accumulated radiation damage (IF you can heal away the rest with magic,etc that is) marked on your character. Fort Saves to avoid radiation sickness and/or the beginnings of horrific magical cancer every time the current(don't forget the accumulated base) goes higher than your base save (ie; you'd have to roll Fort due to a chance of failue).

Of course, we should probably look into the long-term effects of running around with a XASER they fire a dozen times a day for a few years, but it might be best to not go too far here.


Kthulhu wrote:

It's best summed up in five words:

Nukes fall, you all die.

This. No saves, no damage dice, no attack rolls, no nothin'. You're just freaking atomized.

Sczarni

But, the question is, how can we MAKE a nuke in normal Pathfinder.
Taken from the Alchemist's cookbook:

Alchemist's Cookbook wrote:


Many of you have asked what will happen when the crazy Andorans come here and try to give us their concept of freedom. For such cases, I have a little pet-project you can do in your own basement.

Ingredients:
100 flasks of Alchemist's Fire.
50 Flasks of Unstable Accelerant.
1-5 crates of Blightburn Paste. (If you can't find Blightburn Paste, your connections are bad and you should feel bad)
1 container for the mixture.
1 Flying Carpet.
1 Loyal, but outlived his usefulness, slave.

First, take the container, and split it in three sections. Put the flasks of Alchemist's Fire in one of them, and be careful not to break any of them. Afterwards, put the Unstable Accelerant in another section. Be careful not to breathe it in. Then take the Blightburn Paste Editor's Note: I prefer to take it out of the protective boxes and leave it in the kitchen, prevents those filthy slaves from stealing the silverware. You always know who it is, because their appendages start falling off in a couple of days. and put it carefully in the third compartment. Close it and seal it, then wrap it with the carpet.

Let it simmer for THE DAY OF YOUR RECKONING. Serve with crazy, hat waving slave riding the carpet to your opposing army.

Liberty's Edge

Nukes would have three damage sources:
* Heat (extreme, but distance dependent): Probably 1000d6 for direct hit, but at normal distances (1000ft+) would likely be more like 100d6. Keep in mind this is 5* as much as you take for swimming in lava, so it's still a lot. Reflex save for half on this portion. If at a decent distance this starts to drop very fast.
* Radiation: Probably acts like a disease that deals constitution drain, but the rate and number of saves to cure is depdent on distance. Worst is cure 6 saves, DC30, 2d3 con drain. No initial save; you take 1d3 con drain immediately no matter what. (If it's a "dirty" bomb of some kind, this might be afflicted more than once, causing very quick death for those not immune to disease.)
* Sonic Damage: Roughly 50d6, fortitude half. Dissipates more slowly with distance than the heat damge though.

Even with this, a Barbarian with an item to protect against disease, and the Energy Eruption and Energy Absorption rage powers could simply eat the effect if they were in rage at the time, but hey, high level is high level. Nukes only *mostly* insta-gib regular humans, 15th level humans should have a much better survival rate as a matter of course.

Oh, and there's one other effect: Blindness. DC 30?


I personally like the "roll all available dice" method. Though if I ever did that it would likely take an hour just rolling since I have a 5 pound bag of dice I take to all my games.


Goth Guru wrote:


But it is like a disintegrate spell, leaving only a shadow and no bones.
Probably in or near the fireball.

Well, that's sort of the point. Need I to remind you that Disintegrate just happens to be 40d6 damage max in Pathfinder?

As about the rest, thermal radiation outside of the fireball should not be a certain instant kill on level 1-2 commoners, because it wasn't IRL (you can introduce more granularity to damage zones, of course), and for shockwave I took enough damage to pulverize 6 inches of a stone wall, which I think is plenty enough to blow away many buildings and cause the rest to collapse.


Actually, there's an in-lore mention to a nuclear explosion occurring on Golarion in Numeria (you know, that wacky place of super-science and barbarianism... kinda like Mad Max. But with magic and lasers) some hundred-odd years ago. It's in the Numeria: Land of Fallen Stars book if I'm not mistaken. Some barbarian chief accidentally detonated one while trying to find weapons in some ruin and it wiped out his whole tribe, leaving nothing but a glowing green glass crater, massive levels of radiation, and some unknowable radiation monster thing that lives there (possible anomalous interaction between radioactivity and magic?). The Technology Guide also mentions technological artifacts such as an extinction wave device (insta-kills everything with an intelligence score in a 1-mile radius) and a nuclear fission reactor (with damage dice for when it asplodes). So there are some possible starting points for trying to figure out how to build Fat Man, though you'd probably only find it in Numeria. Course, there's nothing stopping you from coming up with a magical version. Like an artifact made from a large refined abysium crystal infused with overwhelming evocation magic. Or a mythic ritual spell with a comparable power level somewhere between Storm of Vengeance and the "Call Meteor" spell that caused Earthfall.

Dark Archive

Take a Nuclear Reactor from the Tech Guide and Maximise the damage.


Instant death, unless you can hide in a refrigerator, and are an archeologist bard.


Animated Teacup wrote:
Actually, there's an in-lore mention to a nuclear explosion occurring on Golarion in Numeria (you know, that wacky place of super-science and barbarianism... kinda like Mad Max. But with magic and lasers) some hundred-odd years ago. It's in the Numeria: Land of Fallen Stars book if I'm not mistaken. Some barbarian chief accidentally detonated one while trying to find weapons in some ruin and it wiped out his whole tribe, leaving nothing but a glowing green glass crater, massive levels of radiation, and some unknowable radiation monster thing that lives there (possible anomalous interaction between radioactivity and magic?). The Technology Guide also mentions technological artifacts such as an extinction wave device (insta-kills everything with an intelligence score in a 1-mile radius) and a nuclear fission reactor (with damage dice for when it asplodes). So there are some possible starting points for trying to figure out how to build Fat Man, though you'd probably only find it in Numeria. Course, there's nothing stopping you from coming up with a magical version. Like an artifact made from a large refined abysium crystal infused with overwhelming evocation magic. Or a mythic ritual spell with a comparable power level somewhere between Storm of Vengeance and the "Call Meteor" spell that caused Earthfall.

If you want to play a winged Elf, they come from Numeria.


This thread reminds me of a book I read, Prince of thorns, a fantasy novel based in the future after we accidentally destroy everything. Magic being a combination of technology and mutation. Anyway during the book a nuclear arsenal is detonated and acompanying issues ensue. One interesting note I took from it is thus: Radiation behaving akin and jointly with Negative Energy. Con str and etc damage are usually from such sources, so ontop of fire from the blast, sonic or simple bludgeon from the presure wave, why not negative energy effects on any around.

It should be noted the half-life of radiation from a clean nuclear bomb is very short outside of the initial blast, and only moderate wihin. A dirty nuclear bomb leaves radiation in long half-lifes, thus is why we worry about other countries selling them to terrorists.

Aftermath of a nuclear bomb... rising undead?


For a game where you actually get to play as actual gods I did some serious research into what kind of damage a Nuclear bomb actual does. Turns out not so much as most people would think. For a Super Hero game I would definitely recommend attempting to have actual realistic stats for a Nukes as depending on your powers surviving a Nuke shouldn't be that hard. I would say that at least Mythic Pathfinder, if not high level Pathfinder should also stand a chance against a Nuke.

The worst part of a Nuclear Blast is the fireball at its heart. It's usually a few hundred meters across and reaches truly astronomical temperatures. It also lasts a several seconds so you're probably looking to get hit my this fire damage multiple times if you're unfortunate enough to get caught in it. Until we get benchmarks for the kind of damage you suffer from walking around on stars this is a hard to place number for damage. What I lie to do here if figure out the toughest reasonable build focused specifically on being tough without jumping through crazy stuff. I then try to calibrate the damage such that the toughest reasonable character isn't likely to come out of it barely alive. So level 20 Dwarf barbarian with Constitution focused attribute advancement and Toughness feat, should come out of it barely alive. Everyone else needs to be looking into fire immunity or some really serious fire resistance. Adjust as needed if you think only Mythic should be able to survive a nuke.

The next big damage is the pressure wave, which can extend for miles. This will hit just once. Sonic damage. You calibrate this one such that stone and concrete walls with mostly be knocked down, but some will be standing with heavy damage. If you're feeling ambitious you can have the damage fall off the farther it is from the point of origin. Either way, pressure wave is survivable by these kinds of characters.

The is also a flash of heat that hits a large area, this can just be treated as a max level Fireball. The initial burst of high level radiation comes with this heat flash as well. Don't know if Pathfinder has Radiation rules, but I would handle it as a disease.

There is also another pressure wave coming back in as the pressure normalizes. After all that has happened I've just make a high DC Fort save to not be knocked down, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to throw another lesser sonic damage attack in for it.

Finally, the whole area is now highly radioactive, don't kill your players off with this if they survived this far, but make it obvious that they need to get out of there and have them die if they don't.

Scarab Sages

Thoughts to keep in mind on nuclear weapons
The blasts releases 4 types of energy (PF Equivalent):
1) Pressure (PF = Force/Sonic)
2) Thermal Radiation (PF = Fire)
3) Ionizing Radiation (PF = Light,Sunburst-esque)
4) Fallout Radiation (PF = Radiation Hazard)

Assuming no cover, or refrigerators

Pressure would decrease at an inverse cube rate. So the damage as function of distance from the point of explosion would be something like:
Dmg(x ft) = (n)d6
Dmg(2x ft) = (n/(2^3))d6 = (n/8)d6
There would probably be varying degrees of deafness (permanent/temporary/tinnitus/none) in this range (assuming of course the ears survived).

Thermal and Ionizing would dissipate at an inverse square rate. So the damage as function of distance from the point of explosion would be something like:
Dmg(x ft) = (n)d6
Dmg(2x ft) = (n/(2^2))d6 = (n/4)d6

If we could assume the blast was the only distributor of the fall out radiation (no wind), then it too would decay at an inverse square rate. So if we were distributing it based on the pathfinder hazard effect:
r = radius of the area affected Fallout
Severe (0.00r to 0.07r)
High (0.07r to 0.2r)
Medium (0.20r to 0.47r)
Low (0.47r to 1.00r)


I agree with Hark, to a degree. At high enough levels, a Pathfinder character can continue walking, talking, and fighting after falling into lava, getting thrown off a mountain, getting swallowed by TotallyNotGodzilla, or getting smothered in gallons of acid by a dragon. If you can survive those things, it isn't too outlandish to survive a nuclear blast, especially if you are near something like a brick wall. If anything, I don't think the damage to PCs would be quite so severe as Hark says. I'd think 12th level non mythic PCs will probably live, maybe a bit lower. In fact, I wouldn't even worry about radiation too much. By Paizo RAW, radiation is a poison, and PCs high enough level to survive a nuke have plenty of magic that can address poisons. If somebody does get radiation sickness, they just need Neutralize Poison or the like.

Scarab Sages

Almost forgot:
1) The various energies would probably have different effective distances.
2) Probably a reflex save to look away to prevent blindness from the ionizing radiation (assuming your are far enough away that the back of your head/helmet provides enough shielding)
3) The best abilities to have if you knew it was coming: Teleportation or a burrow speed
4) A reflex save to sufficient cover would probably be your best bet, if you were sufficiently far away/had enough warning. You'd probably rather take your chances with a building collapsing on you than being in a direct blast.


This thread demonstrates that a nuclear bomb does not prevent Thread Resurrection from functioning.


The amusing thing I would note is that a character that is aware of the problem has several ways of surviving the situation. The easiest being to go underground. The detonation of a nuke is explosive, in that it expands in all directions until it strikes an impediment - at which point it imparts a significant portion of energy to that impediment and rebounds.
This means that if you are underground a sufficient distance not to be fried by the transferred heat (say 100+ feet), you should be subject to a similar effect to an earthquake (let us assume a mythic earthquake lasting 10 rounds).
If you are in a subterranean structure you are looking at a total of 100d8 points of damage over 10 rounds plus 1d10 for (probably) being trapped under rubble. The further down you go, the less damage you would take, especially in a heavily supported structure (Waking Rune anyone?).
If, however, you are transmuted into something with the earth glide ability, and not in a structure, you should be able to ride out the blast fairly easily.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

if you're far enough away that the flash of nuclear light didn't kill you, you shouldn't die from radiation(because that flash was just pure radiation), which will mostly come later in fallout from the dust and ash in the area being pulled into the core of the explosion and then lifted a good distance to raindown for miles around. it's best to be up wind of a nuclear event, or else the dust may land on you and stick to your clothes and hair, which will over time actually cause a radiation burn.

also, nuclear blasts shouldn't create an earthquake, they will make a minor one, but for maximum range of the device, it should be detonated well above ground so that the pressure wave can travel over the countryside mostly unimpeded.


Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:
If anything, I don't think the damage to PCs would be quite so severe as Hark says.

I'm simply advocating a realistic measure of damage. outside of the central fireball you can do damage analysis and figure out how much damage should be done. Inside the fireball is so extreme that RPG beenchmarks for damage don't exist. As such the kind of damage it does is really a matter of what kind of narrative role you want it to serve in your game.

51 to 83 of 83 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Homebrew and House Rules / Nuclear Bomb damage dice All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Homebrew and House Rules