I had mass combat idea. Is it worth refining?

[Dexter Dunbar]

I was thinking that a similar system to Combat Maneuvers would work. This means manufacturing a Base Command Bonus then plugging it into Mass Combat Maneuver Bonus (BCB+INT+WIS+CHA+Unit level+Misc). Mass Combat Maneuver Defense is 10+INT+WIS+CHA+Unit level+Misc)

Command range is 50 ft radius during combat.

Is this idea worth refining or is it a bad concept? Any advice or criticism is welcome.

[Sethizar]

You can use swarm rules to create squads of soldiers, for one. My own experience running mass combat in D&D or Pathfinder is that it's better as a narrative, and set events during the battle that the players can take part of, with the battle turning in favour of which ever side accumulates more victories.

A skirmish at a bridge choke point allows the victor to advance on the field and position himself to engage enemy flanks. A night raid to sabotage seige weapons. A stealth section smuggling in supplies to the castle. A battlefield duel when two heroes from opposing sides meet, the loser's side becoming demoralized at it's conclusion.

The PCs gain effects as the battle progresses (which can last for days at a time) such as fatigue, exhaustion and shaken. Sleeping in Armour becomes a real issue as the battle wears on. Constant harrassing of troops to wear out healing type casters begins to mean that more and more the wounded PCs have to rely on natural healing.

Much more fun than "roll a d20 and add the mass combat bonus....you beat the other side!"

Think like the scene's in the movie Troy...no not the ones with Rose Byrne!

[Ciaran Barnes]

If you want to use a CMB like mechanic, I would not use more than one stat at a time. Much like we have trip and grapple and bullrush, you could have a unit make an attack with one. For example, one that deals just damage would be (d20 + unit level + str + commander bonus + misc), one that deals less damage but makes the unit harder to hit would use dex, one to deal some damage but demoralize the enemy would use cha, etc etc.

Someone could spend an awful lot of time on this and maybe it would be worth it, maybe not. Personally, I find the DM shooting from the hip on it works pretty well.

[Dexter Dunbar]

I was in between on isolating the appropriate stat for the modifier or using all three. I think you may perhaps be correct.

Ex. Inspire Unit=BCB+INT+UL+Misc opposed by DC determined by unit morale

Detect Ambush=BCB+WIS+UL+Misc opposed by ambushing unit stealth dc

Perform phalanx=BCB+INT+UL+Misc opposed by DC determined by unit morale

I was also thinking instead of HP your unit has troop lives. The number of lives lost increases morale DC. Militia morale DC +5 per 10 soldiers lost, Experienced +3, and Veteran +1

Shooting from the hip is fine in more traditional campaigns, but mass combat is highly important in my games due to my tendency to run George RR Martin esque campaigns.

@Sethizar Thanks for the swarm idea. I wasn't looking at simply making this a you roll you win concept. I want mass combat to be equally as dynamic as regular combat with legit choices, tactics and involvement from players.

[Tom S 820]

I would swap the Bonus names to this.
Irregular -3
Green -1
Regural+0
Veteran+1
Elite +3

Have you look at

Battle System TSR was the 1st Ed AD&D Miniatures Mass Combat rules
Birth Right Campaign setting had mass combat role 2ed TSR
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7851118/d20-Open-Mass-Combat-System Mongoose Publishing's 3.0 D&D
Hero's of Battle WotC 3.5 D&D
King Maker AP Book 5 I think Pathfinder 3.75 D&D

I understand where you are trying to go but unfortunate none are really that good. Which is a shame cause D&D is base off the idea using heroes in mass combat. It is why Gray Gygax created D&D in the first place.

I with my 34 year role playing games exp I agree with Sethizar that is much better way to tell story and way easier to run.

Or look at MoB role in 3.5 WotC Stuff I think in
Dungeon Master's Guide II

[Dexter Dunbar]

Mass combat can and should be as tactical and satisfying as operating an individual character. I have seen and used it successfully in the Song of Ice and Fire RPG so I know it can be done. I love the Pathfinder system more than any RPG system out there.

The only area where Pathfinder feels neglected is in Mass Combat in my opinion. If there is not a good mass combat mechanic yet then it is neither the fault of tabletop gaming nor the fault of the Pathfinder system. There is a perfectly understandable absence of effort at this point. I think Paizo has the minds to do it successfully and so does the Paizo community.

[Ronny Hart]

I just posted my version of mass combat rules for D&D here:
http://olddungeonmaster.wordpress.com/2012/12/30/dd-wars-mass-combat-rules/
I would appreceate any comments on it you may have.
thanks
Ronny