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RPG Superstar 2015

Looking for Archetypes, New Classes, Maybe New Mechanics


Compatible Products from Other Publishers

Dark Archive

So:

I'm looking for some good quality archetypes, or even new classes: Ideally published ones, but if you know of good homebrew ones to fill the gaps, I'm interested in reading those too.

Looking for replacements for the Rogue and Monk. Possibly some Swashbuckler/Duelist type ones too.

I've read the swashbuckler class by adamant entertainment, and I didn't really like it.

I'm not a fan of the stock rogue or monk. But it seems likely there's some awesome 3pp or homebrew out there for these things.

So I'm asking:
Consumers - What have you guys come across that you liked?
Publishers - What have you released in this area?

Also interested in hearing about various new classes/archetypes that could fit in a drow game.

I'm also interested in some manner of mental and social combat mechanics for pathfinder, kindof like in SIFRPG or Vampire the Requiem: Danse Macabre, if anyone has done them already.


Meh, if your really looking to replace rogue and monk, go pick up Dreamscarred Press' psioncs books for PF. Psionics Unleashed and Psionics Expanded.

There are some archetypes in Psionics Expanded that turn the Psychic Warrior and Soulknife into solid monk alternatives (maybe better, ymmv), and at least one archetype off the top of my head that turns a soulknife into a scary rogue alternative. Plus all the other good stuff they have in there.

It overlaps some, but Rite Publishing's Expanded Spell Less Ranger could, with a little tweaking, serve as a rogue as well (it gets sneak attack, and no spells, plus loads of other cool stuff). Some of their eastern themed books tweak the monk in interesting ways, and there is at least one monk alternative, although it is very eastern themed.

For swashbuckler/duelist, could you clarify a bit? For me those are more themes and styles not classes, so an idea of what your meaning would help.

Just a couple off the top of my head idea's for 3pp stuff that might do ya.

Dark Archive

I'll look into the Psionics books, though I'm not sure if Psionics will fit the upcoming game.

Rite Publishing has a Spell-less Ranger. that's good to know.
Aha! Found it: It's Open Design. :)

My usual "Rogue Replacement" is the "Urban Skirmisher(or Trapper) Ranger" if I go by stock paizo archetypes.
I've allowed alternate class abilities with that before to give sneak attack, a few different skills, or Uncanny & Imp. Uncanny Dodge, to get a very Rogue-like Ranger.

I don't mind if the monk is eastern themed, I mostly just want a monk who is better at fighting. Maybe one who is still good at fighting while skirmishing. Perhaps one who uses weapons more (like a shaolin monk) or who does weird improv stuff like jackie chan.

For a swashbuckler/duelist, I'm thinking a light armored or unarmored combat effective class with some social skills. Think three musketeers, or Will in Pirates of the Caribbean, or Inigo Montoya in The Princess Bride.


Blerg, yeah, sorry bout that. A little sick and I committed the sin of not double checking my books lol.

The spell less ranger is probably exactly what your looking for as a rogue replacement from your description.

If the eastern flavor isn't a knock, look at Rite Publishing's Archetypes of the Jade Oath (Kensai archetype for monks) then re-read the changes a second time just to be sure. It...isn't an insignificant alteration. The Enlightened Scholar class of theirs is kinda nifty as well.

As to the swashbuckler/duelist...yeah, I figured you'd say that. I honestly view that less of a set of class features and more of a playstyle. Mmmm...maybe try Super Genius Games, I know a Clever Godling could be made to fit the bill.

As to the Psionics thing...Soulknife. It isn't a class that gets a manifester level usually, but they do have a pair of archetypes that can sub in for the monk and rogue very well for it. The base class is in the Psionics Unleashed, the archetypes are in Psionics Expanded.


Mmm, and yeah, its a self plug sorta, but I figure why not, you might like it, WiP or not:
My monk revision.

Its a work in progress. You might like it, might not.

Dark Archive

Krigare wrote:
Blerg, yeah, sorry bout that. A little sick and I committed the sin of not double checking my books lol.

No Worries, it happens. :P

Krigare wrote:

The spell less ranger is probably exactly what your looking for as a rogue replacement from your description.

If the eastern flavor isn't a knock, look at Rite Publishing's Archetypes of the Jade Oath (Kensai archetype for monks) then re-read the changes a second time just to be sure. It...isn't an insignificant alteration. The Enlightened Scholar class of theirs is kinda nifty as well.

I will go check those out then. :)

Krigare wrote:
As to the swashbuckler/duelist...yeah, I figured you'd say that. I honestly view that less of a set of class features and more of a playstyle. Mmmm...maybe try Super Genius Games, I know a Clever Godling could be made to fit the bill.

Yeah. The playstyle is definitely a big part of it, but I would like to be able to use that sort of playstyle and do it well, and that's more difficult. If I make a fighter and refuse to wear armor, I will have a very hard time keeping up with encounters. If I make a ranger, I don't believe there's a 1-sword+free hand fighting style. etc.

Krigare wrote:
As to the Psionics thing...Soulknife. It isn't a class that gets a manifester level usually, but they do have a pair of archetypes that can sub in for the monk and rogue very well for it. The base class is in the Psionics Unleashed, the archetypes are in Psionics Expanded.

Hmm. I'll have to check out the soulknife too then.

I'm also interested in any other archetypes which could be useful in an urban game with guilds, noble houses and intrigue, or archetypes which would go well in a Drow game.

Dark Archive

Krigare wrote:

Mmm, and yeah, its a self plug sorta, but I figure why not, you might like it, WiP or not:

My monk revision.

Its a work in progress. You might like it, might not.

I gotta go for a bit, I'll check out your monk later tonight. Who knows, I might like it. :)

Marathon Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

DH, Rite's Secrets of Tactical Archetypes II has by "sneak attack" replacement in it that really changes the way rogues work. The basic idea of it is that they get their bonus damage from attacking enemies with conditions on them, so you get a playstyle that's a bit more dynamic and also gets rid of the need for the buddy system.

Maxximilius also has a number of archetypes in there too. Granted, I'm a wee bit biased on this product.


If all you want out of a monk is damage and combat maneuvers, the Brawler and Unarmed Fighter archetypes from Ultimate Combat are worth checking out. The Mobile Fighter archetype from the APG would also make a nice "monk".

Dark Archive

Bearded Ben wrote:
If all you want out of a monk is damage and combat maneuvers, the Brawler and Unarmed Fighter archetypes from Ultimate Combat are worth checking out. The Mobile Fighter archetype from the APG would also make a nice "monk".

Yeah, they *Almost Work*. What I want from a monk is:

Martial-Arts-Flavored combat (good with unarmed, quarterstaves, tri-section staves, hook swords & other chinese monk weapons; combat maneuvers in the full attack, and manages decent AC despite wearing - at best - magically enhanced clothes). Ideally give them more mobility than the default fighter. And ideally (because it makes sense) Good Ref & Will.

Some mashup or combination of those archetypes would help, but the parts that don't work are the saves and the unarmored-ness.

I have the all the big hardcover paizo books thus far and access to d20pfsrd, so I've seen at least most of Paizo's archetypes. Unfortunately they don't quite do it, for the reasons I mentioned above.

Cheapy's Book is now on my 'to-read' list.


I highly recommend taking a look at these two links:

Class Acts.

I have and recommend the two for Rogue and the two for Ranger.

New Paths: The Expanded Spell-less Ranger (PFRPG).

I recommend the second link even more highly than the first. It is an expansion of the Spell-less Ranger class presented in Kobold magazine a while back.

I hope this helps.


To replace the monk, might I suggest the Strider? Homebrew, but very well made.


Darkholme wrote:
I'm also interested in some manner of mental and social combat mechanics for pathfinder, kindof like in SIFRPG or Vampire the Requiem: Danse Macabre, if anyone has done them already.

For social combat, I would suggest Debateable Actions.

Star Voter 2013

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hi, Darkholme. (And hello and thanks for the nod, Shadowlord!)

Darkholme, while I really appreciate Shadowlord's recommendation, if you're looking for a wildly different or "variant" monk, then Class Acts: Monk Archetypes probably is not the product you want. The most exhaustive archetype featured there, the Oblivion Disciple, is an extensive one-page archetype, but it does not fundamentally change the "idea" of the monk (and it largely eschews weapons).

Class Acts: Monks (which, despite the similar name, is a general class-based product, not an archetype product) contains some nifty new style feats, but still nothing that really approaches a "variant."

Our Class Acts: Rogues and Class Acts: Rogue Archetypes products, on the other hand, really might be right up your alley - especially the latter. The last archetype in the aforementioned product is called the Wormtongue, and it takes inspiration from the two-faced betrayer of the same name from the Lord of the Rings trilogy. As a semi-magical master of manipulation, enchantment, and lies I'd say it puts a fairly new spin on the "standard" rogue concept. Both products are highly-rated and well-reviewed, and each is only $0.99. And heck, if you're seriously strapped for cash, I'll comp you a copy of the archetypes product. Especially if you promise to write a review!

As for Cheapy and Maxximilius' collaborative effort, The Secrets of Tactical Archetypes, I've seen Cheapy's preview of the rogue/sneak attack variant, and it's quite nifty. Easy to remember, easy to use, and different enough to facilitate significantly different tactics without substantially altering how often or how easily you can set up sneak attacks.

I'm almost positive that Cheapy has a preview of the aforementioned rogue-y/sneak attack-ey bits from that product floating around the forums somewhere - it might be worth looking into.

Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Azten wrote:
To replace the monk, might I suggest the Strider? Homebrew, but very well made.

Thanks! :-D


Abandoned Arts wrote:
Our Class Acts: Rogues and Class Acts: Rogue Archetypes products, on the other hand, really might be right up your alley - especially the latter. The last archetype in the aforementioned product is called the Wormtongue, and it takes inspiration from the two-faced betrayer of the same name from the Lord of the Rings trilogy. As a semi-magical master of manipulation, enchantment, and lies I'd say it puts a fairly new spin on the "standard" rogue concept. Both products are highly-rated and well-reviewed, and each is only $0.99. And heck, if you're seriously strapped for cash, I'll comp you a copy of the archetypes product. Especially if you promise to write a review!

This is exactly what I was talking about and it is a great addition do the Archetypes and Rogue Talents provided by PF publications. It is a great product to ramp up the variety in your Rogues, especially if you get into vastly varying Rogues/Thieves/Assassins guilds. The Ranger ones are quite good too. And for the price you can’t beat it.

The Spell-less Ranger presented in the other link could give you a good option to replace combat heavy rogues in your games. Or at least another option for building a combat oriented rogue-like NPC or PC.


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Darkholme wrote:

So:

I'm looking for some good quality archetypes, or even new classes: Ideally published ones, but if you know of good homebrew ones to fill the gaps, I'm interested in reading those too.

For everything you seem to want, I find Super genius has a few good options.

My favorite rogue replacement is the shadow assassin, from the Genius Guide to the shadow Assassin. It’s a cool darkness-manipulating stealth class.

I’m also a big fan of the Wolf Head, from Ultimate Options: Power of the Ninja. It’s a ki-less ninja archetype that has no Asian flavor.

For monk my new favorite is hands-down the Master of Arms archetype from Anachronistic Adventurers: The Tough, which can do monk-like tricks unarmed or with weapon groups. You can add it to the tough class from the same book, or to the enforcer from Anachronistic Adventurers: The Enforcer, or using the rules from the Genius Guide to Martial Archetypes you could add it to the fighter or even the monk itself (for an, in my humble opinion, “better monk.”)

For swashbucklers or many classes, including fighters and monks but also the magus swashbuckler the Picaroon, and the monk swashbuckler archetype the Seaswain (which was my favorite monk option until the Master of Arms came along!), I recommend Advanced Options: Fight Like a Pirate.

Marathon Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Seconded on the shadow assassin. It's possibly my favorite PF class :)

And thanks for the kind words, Daron.

Liberty's Edge

Shadowlord wrote:


New Paths: The Expanded Spell-less Ranger (PFRPG).

I recommend the second link even more highly than the first. It is an expansion of the Spell-less Ranger class presented in Kobold magazine a while back.

I hope this helps.

Thanks for the kind words regarding the Spell-less Ranger! It was very much a labor of love :)

Silver Crusade

Thirding the Shadow Assassin. Very cool variant on the roguish thematic !
Also, thanks for the support and kind words. :)

Cheapy wrote:

DH, Rite's Secrets of Tactical Archetypes II has by "sneak attack" replacement in it that really changes the way rogues work. The basic idea of it is that they get their bonus damage from attacking enemies with conditions on them, so you get a playstyle that's a bit more dynamic and also gets rid of the need for the buddy system.

Maxximilius also has a number of archetypes in there too. Granted, I'm a wee bit biased on this product.

If I may add some more biased opinions about this book, our group's Dirty Trick-based rogue uses the Vicious Opportunist archetype's variant to sneak attack from this book, and even if we are still at 2nd level, he loves being able to utterly cripple his foes and set up his own sneak attacks by himself.

You may also want to check Pathways 14 for a knife-throwing rogue that complements and provides a solid ranged option to the Vicious Opportunist.


Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
Darkholme wrote:

So:

I'm looking for some good quality archetypes, or even new classes: Ideally published ones, but if you know of good homebrew ones to fill the gaps, I'm interested in reading those too.

For everything you seem to want, I find Super genius has a few good options.

My favorite rogue replacement is the shadow assassin, from the Genius Guide to the shadow Assassin. It’s a cool darkness-manipulating stealth class.

I’m also a big fan of the Wolf Head, from Ultimate Options: Power of the Ninja. It’s a ki-less ninja archetype that has no Asian flavor.

For monk my new favorite is hands-down the Master of Arms archetype from Anachronistic Adventurers: The Tough, which can do monk-like tricks unarmed or with weapon groups. You can add it to the tough class from the same book, or to the enforcer from Anachronistic Adventurers: The Enforcer, or using the rules from the Genius Guide to Martial Archetypes you could add it to the fighter or even the monk itself (for an, in my humble opinion, “better monk.”)

For swashbucklers or many classes, including fighters and monks but also the magus swashbuckler the Picaroon, and the monk swashbuckler archetype the Seaswain (which was my favorite monk option until the Master of Arms came along!), I recommend Advanced Options: Fight Like a Pirate.

I also like mixing the Youxia (Martial Archetypes,Super Genius Games) with either the Daredevil, Enforcer, or Tough (Anachronistic Adventurers Classes, Super Genius Games) they make very unique monk replacements. If you want Rogue-Like try the Clever Godling, Shadow Assassin, Time Thief from Super Genius Games,or the Luckbringer from Rite Publishing. I've personally played all of these and they are a lot of fun.


We released quite a few classes.

We have a Gunslinger variant called the Swashbuckler in Tome of Munitions. It's a sword/gun based gunslinger with melee options that might fit. Our Skirmisher might fit as well (very unique dice mechanic that employs adjacent numbers of a dice)

Off the top of my head, here is what we have released so far:

Tome of Wicked Things
-5 Alternate classes for Antipaladin

Tome of Ingenuity
-Noble [Base]
-Skirmisher [Base]
-Kotodama Master [Prestige]

Tome of Devotion
-Zealot [Prestige]
-Chaplin [Alt]
-Exorcist [Prestige]

Substitution Classes
-Lich
-Saint
-Vampire

Sample Pack
-Bestial Champion [Prestige]

Tome of Bizarre
-Cultist [Prestige]
-Gastromancer [Prestige]
-Sword Dancer [Prestige]
-Psychic [Base]
-3 Psychic Prestiges (Firebug, Precognitive Champion, and I can't recall the last one)

Ravan & Shaper
-Shaper [Base]

GR: Wolong
-Wolong

GR: Knight
-Knight [Cav Alt]

GR: Bokor
-Bokor [Base]

Dogs of War
-Handler [Base]

Runesmith
-Runesmith [Base]

The Invoker
-Invoker [Base]

Rogue's Gallery
-Gentleman Thief [Alt]
-Grey Guardian [Prestige]
-Jester [Prestige]

Tome of Munitions
-Swashbuckler [Alt]
-Ascetic Trigger [Alt]
-Dragoon [Alt]
-Living Legend [Prestige]
-Eldritch Engineer [Prestige]

I might be forgetting a few. I'm not looking at them atm.

And thats not including all the stuff we've done for legendary levels (post 20th level)

Dark Archive

Wow. Yeah, some of these might be good fits. I'll have to look into a few of these. :)


Wolong was very fun if you want some new mechanics.

It's one of our fav. to bring into playtests even when we don't need to.

It has some very fun interruption mechanics (it basically exists outside the turn order) and the best part is... it's free! :-)

Enjoy!

Star Voter 2013

I would also recommend looking at Ryan Costello's Strategists and Tacticians which includes his "sever" mechanic, and many very cool prestige classes, as well as dirty fighting techniques. Overall an excellent product.

There are also several martial-arts inspired classes in our upcoming Paths of Power 2: Paths of Blood, which includes a new bone-breaking mechanic, body hardening feats, and new takes on classes like the Ayutthayan Monk.

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