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Lamus Rage powerus


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

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Is it me or do all the rage powers suck? Especially for a Barb that might multi class (like one going for rage prophet)

I mean look at rogue talents, holy cow!

Should have rage powers that give the choice a a feat, but only while raging.... maybe I just have rogue talent envy?

Are there better rage powers out there that maybe i dont know about (Got core rule book, Apg, Ulimtiate magic and UC)

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

Pounce, Superstitious, Spell Sunder.

/thread.


Pendagast wrote:


I mean look at rogue talents, holy cow!

Yeah right:)


It's you. Especially if you think the rogue talents are better :)

Qadira

Knockback, because, well... this is SPARTA!!! ;)


Also rage prophet is mainly useful for oracle casters with a smidge of barbarian, not the other way around.


Rage prophet requires barb and oracle.

So there is three class to get that build.

The only deviation is Inquisitor and it mentions in the write up for rage prophet, some rage prophets are other divine classes, so he wanted to try it. so effectively, he's only one level off his build by being required to have the level of oracle for the build.

the build has him go to a level of barbarian that gets 2 rage powers. So the question is, which powers? entry level powers seem trivial at best or once a day kinda things which we all hate.

the entire build, thematically is kinda cool, we are just looking for more options with the rage powers, dont even CARE about the crunch. More choices would be nice.


ashern wrote:
Also rage prophet is mainly useful for oracle casters with a smidge of barbarian, not the other way around.

Not sure I agree, but that's a separate discussion.

Rogue talents are generally weaker than rage powers, because the big downside of rage powers is that they're not always on. They're actually only on for a very limited amount of time. So it's best to choose ones that are always useful.

Reckless Abandon, say. The Spell Sunder line. Ghost Rager if you're not going Reckless Abandon.


umm ok "reckless abandon" doesnt sound like it goes with "controlled rage" Spell sunder seems counter intuitive to a casting eager, Where is Ghost Rager at? what book?


Ghost Rager is from Ultimate Combat.

I'm advising on mechanics, not fluff, as everyone interprets their character's fluff differently. I'm playing a barbarian taking a level of oracle to go rage prophet, and he has superstition and will probably go for spell sunder.

Strength surge? Unexpected strike, if you have high Dex?


Most rage powers DO suck, especially if you're just doing low levels in barbarian. Pounce isn't till level 10, CaGM level 12, etc... A lot of the ones people talk about either aren't till later or assume you're sticking straight barbarian to make them work. Strength Surge is pretty pointless if not going far into barb, as is reckless abandon.

And if you're only a lvl 2 barbarian, Superstition SUCKS. You have to save against good spells while raging now and all you got to show for it was +2 fort and ref saves (the will bonus technically overlaps w/ the general boost from rage, as both are morale). That's really terrible!

So OP was technically correct; for a multiclassed barb, rage powers do kinda suck. Still better than rogue talents other than using talents to buy feats, though.


Rage prophet makes them okay again, though, as the levels in rage prophet make the barbarian rage powers increase in power (though they don't count for picking new ones).

Also, the human favoured class bonus for barbarian makes Superstition good even at lowish levels. But not if you're only dipping, I agree.


6 barb/6 inquisitor/1 oracle/5 rage prophet (aps usually go to 18)

so its a bit more than a "dip"

progression will 'probably' go:

Barb 1, then oracle 1, then inquisitor 1.

then barb 2 to get a rage power, and then likely 2 more levels of inquisitor followed by another level of barb.

So he will be a 3 barb/1 oracle/3 inquisitor (I assume) by the time he takes his first level of Rage Prophet.

then go straight for bane ( I assume) and fill in his barb and rage prophet for the rest of the levels.

So if he goes that way the second rage power he gets will be late in the game, and will probably be ultimately meaningless.

Ill have to find ghost eager tho. I only have UC on PDF so i dont peruse it as much,


Pendagast wrote:

Rage prophet requires barb and oracle.

So there is three class to get that build.

The only deviation is Inquisitor and it mentions in the write up for rage prophet, some rage prophets are other divine classes, so he wanted to try it. so effectively, he's only one level off his build by being required to have the level of oracle for the build.

the build has him go to a level of barbarian that gets 2 rage powers. So the question is, which powers? entry level powers seem trivial at best or once a day kinda things which we all hate.

the entire build, thematically is kinda cool, we are just looking for more options with the rage powers, dont even CARE about the crunch. More choices would be nice.

Note I said 3 base classes. Barbarian + Oracle = 2 base classes.

Hybrid prestige classes have always made you choose to give up something. Its the nature of hybrids. I'm not saying your player doesn't have a good idea, just that under the limitations of the system, there won't be a lot of the power options everyone talks about.

If he is a Charisma based caster,Lesser Spirit Totem is somewhat cool, and rather handy. It is one of the few barbarian rage powers that isn't tied to the barbarians level, and it also focuses on a stat most barbarians dump, Cha.

Rage powers like No Escape, Scent, more examples of powers not inherently tied to the barbarians level. Sure, all of the "Wow, cool!!!" powers have a pretty hefty barbarian level requirement, but there is a reason, to discourage dipping and getting all the good stuff. But there are low level rage powers that are handy for when you dip, they are just limited by your rage rounds.


If your mulit-classing barbarian, then yes rage powers are not for you. A two lvl dip that gets you quite a bit of offensive power though. The best choice for the one rage power you get in a typical dip is Reckless abandon (May not be true for a rage prophet). Reckless abandon lets you offset power attack to your AC instead of your to hit.

However, I would say that you need to re-read your barbarian threads on the advice board. Barbarians have a rediculous number of rage powers that are well beyond anything that a feat will give you. As such, the current min/max barbarians builds take extra rage power as a feat probably half of the time. As such, a high lvl barbarian is the swiss army knife of the melee world. They can pounce, re-roll against failed saves and gain temp hit points, dispel any spell-like effect with ease, break any and all attempts to use a combat maneuver against them, succeed on basically any combat maneuver, have rediculous paladin like saves, take AoO for no reason (including the enemy 5ft stepping), consider any item to have ghost touch (including that chair in the corner), etc. The list goes on. The rogues talents are a bland menu of useless items compared to the barbarian.


ok yea so superstitious and ghost rager perhaps are the best fit, since hes a haunted possessed oracle. Character theme is he's a reincarnated shoanti guardian.

His estranged mother was a seer (zellara) who was cast out of her tribe when she decided to keep her half orc child. Eventually settling in Korvosa, Zellara took an elven lover who threw Rance (character's name) out into the streets. Rance eventually fell in for a time as one of Gaedrans Little Lamms. Rance has not seen his mother since he was very young.

Although Rance is an Urban Barbarian, the spirit of the shoanti guardian grows in him slowly, most recently manifesting in his level of possessed oracle with the haunted curse, and eventually coming full tilt as a spirit guide when he reaches rage prophet.

The character has a very low Cha and wants abilities and powers of the inquisitor and thus the levels of inquisitor for the casting abilities of the rage prophet. He plans on taking the anger inquisition so he will have stacking levels for barbarian from his barb class as well as inquisitor and rage prophet.

I was wondering if he takes his level in barbarian that gives him his second rage power late, then would the stacking levels of barbarian from other classes "qualify him" for rage powers where he needs to be a higher level of barbarian? (3 levels from anger inquisition and say 4 levels from rage prophet, he could have 7 extra levels for qualifying for better stand alone rage powers?)


As I mentioned above, rage prophet makes your existing rage power abilities more powerful (it counts as levels of barbarian for that purpose), but it doesn't count as barbarian levels for taking rage powers (or oracle levels for taking revelations).

Also, if there's a second rage power you want to take without dipping more into barbarian, spend a feat.


the player already wants improved uncanny dodge, so the second rage power is by default

savage seer says it does not grant additional abilities as in no new rage powers or revelations, but the way its worded is ambiguous if those new powers come from another source, it's clear it advances the current abilities but unclear, exactly about new ones coming from multiclass sources, which is why I asked.

What the RAI is, seeing as the RAW isnt all exclusive. would allowing a barbarian level later on stack with savage seer to qualify for the rage power be game breaking? was it meant to specifically be prevented in this manner?


ProfPotts wrote:
Knockback, because, well... this is SPARTA!!! ;)

Just got to do this last session. It was hella fun. :)

I'd add Roused Anger as a very useful power, and Good For What Ails You works best for a drunken brute archetype, but it's not tied to that archetype and is a potentially very useful way to save yourself. No Escape too, I like.


also the anger inquisition is written similarly on the lack of clarity, if not even more so. As it does use the word stack, specifically, and effect of rage powers, but doesnt rule out qualifying minimum level stacking. Neither one on their own GIVE new rage powers, that is clearly ruled out, but if the NEW power came from a level of barbarian it's self what effective level of barbarian does one use for "minimum level required" to take that rage power?

example: 3 levels of barbarian/ 6 levels of inquisitor with anger inquisition and 3 levels of rage prophet would be 9 levels of effective barbarian for the rage power the player chose at level 2 barbarian, but now he takes a 4th level in barbarian, his "effective" barbarian level is now 10 for that first rage power. If his effective level is now 10, the fourth barb level lets him select a new rage power, can he then select one that requires a minimum barbarian level of 10th (or even 8th?) Keep in mind his total character level is 13 now, I don't necessarily see this as broken, Just did RAI mean to prevent this form happening (I don't see why)?


Pendagast wrote:

also the anger inquisition is written similarly on the lack of clarity, if not even more so. As it does use the word stack, specifically, and effect of rage powers, but doesnt rule out qualifying minimum level stacking. Neither one on their own GIVE new rage powers, that is clearly ruled out, but if the NEW power came from a level of barbarian it's self what effective level of barbarian does one use for "minimum level required" to take that rage power?

example: 3 levels of barbarian/ 6 levels of inquisitor with anger inquisition and 3 levels of rage prophet would be 9 levels of effective barbarian for the rage power the player chose at level 2 barbarian, but now he takes a 4th level in barbarian, his "effective" barbarian level is now 10 for that first rage power. If his effective level is now 10, the fourth barb level lets him select a new rage power, can he then select one that requires a minimum barbarian level of 10th (or even 8th?) Keep in mind his total character level is 13 now, I don't necessarily see this as broken, Just did RAI mean to prevent this form happening (I don't see why)?

I'm going to go with thats not RAI or RAW. Increasing your barbarian level for rage power effects is not the same as increasing your barbarian level for determining rage power prerequisites.

And...I know I come up with some off the wall builds, but it really, really sounds like your player is trying to stretch things a bit. Why does he want improved uncanny dodge for instance? At level 13, most npc's that can sneak attack by flanking will be 4 levels or more above the barbarian level, so it gives no benefit unless he is facing really weak enemies. You might want to go over what he is trying to do exactly and see if he actually understands the mechanics he is trying to fit into his build. And I say having had to explain this to players before, sometimes folks think a rule/mechanic works one way when it actually doesn't. Honest mistakes happen.


Dumb Paladin wrote:
ProfPotts wrote:
Knockback, because, well... this is SPARTA!!! ;)

Just got to do this last session. It was hella fun. :)

I'd add Roused Anger as a very useful power, and Good For What Ails You works best for a drunken brute archetype, but it's not tied to that archetype and is a potentially very useful way to save yourself. No Escape too, I like.

Knockback and Knockdown both make me happy. I never really looked at Good For What Ails You, but it seems decent, with the only real concern being that it's almost your entire turn used to get the extra chance at a save. No Escape looks cool on paper, but when I took it I realized just how often enemies actually "withdraw" and regretted it.


Pendagast wrote:

savage seer says it does not grant additional abilities as in no new rage powers or revelations, but the way its worded is ambiguous if those new powers come from another source, it's clear it advances the current abilities but unclear, exactly about new ones coming from multiclass sources, which is why I asked.

What the RAI is, seeing as the RAW isnt all exclusive. would allowing a barbarian level later on stack with savage seer to qualify for the rage power be game breaking? was it meant to specifically be prevented in this manner?

This is answered here.

If you want to play it differently, I suppose you could, but I don't recommend it.


Sir Ophiuchus wrote:
Pendagast wrote:

savage seer says it does not grant additional abilities as in no new rage powers or revelations, but the way its worded is ambiguous if those new powers come from another source, it's clear it advances the current abilities but unclear, exactly about new ones coming from multiclass sources, which is why I asked.

What the RAI is, seeing as the RAW isnt all exclusive. would allowing a barbarian level later on stack with savage seer to qualify for the rage power be game breaking? was it meant to specifically be prevented in this manner?

This is answered here.

If you want to play it differently, I suppose you could, but I don't recommend it.

That brings us back to low level choices of which there aren;t many.

as far as improved uncanny dodge, it depends on what order he takes the levels as to whether it is relevant or not. A certain amount of bab is going to be required for the build regardless and that is most likely going to come from barbarian.

additionally improved uncanny dodge has other benefits besides just preventing sneak attacks. the character cannot be flanked, there are several feat combos and bonuses to attack etc etc game mechanics wise that are negated because he cannot be flanked. those with classes that give sneak attack can over come this, those without the proper levels of sneak attack cannot. So its more useful at lower levels but not useless at higher levels.

the player wants to jump into the middle of a mass of enemies and slash at em all. Berserker style.

It also gives him HP and BAB he will need. I'm not really seeing how 5 or 6 levels of barbarian for this build is "odd".

In order to become rage prophet at all he would need a BAB of +5 which generally means he'd need 5 levels of barb anyhow.

which there by gives you improved uncanny dodge.

By adding the fact he wants to be an inquisitor only gives him 1 level down (the prerequisite oracle level which mechanically is a "waste" but gives much flavor to his character theme)

he could perhaps take 1 level of oracle, 2 levels of barbarian, and 4 levels of inquisitor, which would qualify him for Rage Prophet at level 7, so his 8th level could be rage prophet.

Oracle 1/ barb 5 would mean his 7th level is Rage Prophet. it's not a huge difference. Just the mixture of abilities, skills, etc etc would be different.

Oracle 1/ barb 5(or6)/Inquisitor 6/Rage Prophet 5 (or6) isnt a bad build.

It gives the player the powers he wants to build and play with. However, the order they are chosen in levels could make a big difference in whether they are useful or not.

I could see argument for Oracle 1/Barb 2/ rage prophet 10/ inquisitor 5 Or oracle 1/ barb 2/inquisitor 10/rage prophet 5. However the powers the player wants from inquisitor and rage prophet are limited to the 5-6 level range, and he wants to not be flanked (wading in enemies)

So the rest of those levels by default will go to barbarian. either of the above builds would be fun. Im not trying to build the guys character I'm trying to look around to see what options there are for his rage power(s).


Other than the +2 to hit, what exactly is he worried about? I'm curious.

And no, it isn't a bad build per se, it is just different.

I guess for me it becomes a question of what exactly is he trying to do? Usually I see someone play a rage prophet to cast spells while raging, so they work on maximizing caster levels.

From what it sounds like, your player is looking to get the inquisitors +2d6 damage for 5 rounds a day, and what, extend rage duration by burning spell slots? Adding Ghost Touch to weapons and armor by burning rounds of rage?

The lack of a solid idea of what he's trying to do makes it hard to offer any meaningful advice other than "Man, that is kind of a weird build"


if you can fit it in, barbarian 8 is a nice 'inflection point' to attain
because several very nice rage powers are available from that level,
e.g. Unexpected Strike AKA poor man's come and get me :-)
having a good idea of 8th level pre-req rage powers you are interested is a good idea, before you take those levels.


:
upon quick review of the module where the characters would be level 13, a history of ashes, lets assume the character build goes like this: Barb 5/ oracle 1/ inquisitor 2 /Rage prophet 5. Then the only thing in the whole book that could back stab that character would be cinnabar herself, as the rest of the flunkies dont have enough back stab levels to do so. So how is improved uncanny dodge useless at level 13?

IF he took seven levels of barb (barb 7/oracle 1/ inquisitor 3/ rage prophet 2 for example?) even cinnabar couldnt back stab him.

In the earlier module escape from old korvosa none of the mantis could backstab him as they are all split class fighter rogue assassins ...oh wait 3 classes, are the mantis trying to do too much by being assassins? Maybe the guild should just shut down!

If a straight rogue level 13 found him? yea he'd be SOL on that one. Such is life.


right, rogues/etc are very popular as flunky NPCs, less so as BBEGs.


Krigare wrote:

Other than the +2 to hit, what exactly is he worried about? I'm curious.

And no, it isn't a bad build per se, it is just different.

I guess for me it becomes a question of what exactly is he trying to do? Usually I see someone play a rage prophet to cast spells while raging, so they work on maximizing caster levels.

From what it sounds like, your player is looking to get the inquisitors +2d6 damage for 5 rounds a day, and what, extend rage duration by burning spell slots? Adding Ghost Touch to weapons and armor by burning rounds of rage?

The lack of a solid idea of what he's trying to do makes it hard to offer any meaningful advice other than "Man, that is kind of a weird build"

the character concept is he's a reincarnated shoanti guardian, he wants to maul mobs and wade through lesser baddies so he wants all the goofy haunted, possessed etc goodies.

Inquisitor wise, he wanted access to the inquisitor spell list via rage prophet so there is that, and then the question was how high in inquisitor to go? well bane sounded like a good place to stop to him.

thematically in game why inquisitor? To hunt down and destroy "the great evil" the shoanti were originally guarding against. the build is ALL based on flavor.

The Rage Prophet is just to build on the whole spirit guide talking to his possesed self ancient warrior inside him gig.


So none of the monsters are level 9 rogues or higher? Ok, fair enough. I'm not saying it is entirely useless, it starts to lose effectiveness as you don't level the class. And in most cases, classes with sneak attack state they stack with rogue levels for sneak attack, iirc, that includes bypassing uncanny dodge (could be wrong.)

It's just an odd mix is all. If the player is happy, that is what matters in the long run.


Quandary wrote:

if you can fit it in, barbarian 8 is a nice 'inflection point' to attain

because several very nice rage powers are available from that level,
e.g. Unexpected Strike AKA poor man's come and get me :-)
having a good idea of 8th level pre-req rage powers you are interested is a good idea, before you take those levels.

ok so level 8 barb? right. the idea isnt necessarily "how high do I have to go to get good rage powers" so much as it is "what do I do with the rage powers I get by default, because I get 2 or three of them?" the answer thus far is "just toss them away on stuff that sux and you will likely forget you have them"

then it seems kinda lame that rage prophet is designed to add effective levels of barbarian to add to the rage powers that are available to the entry level barb....helllooooo hence the lameness!

Since whats available is weak at best and not even addable to at worst! see the point (most if not all rage prophet builds will have less than 6 levels of barbarian, so whats the real effect of savage seer?)


why do you think most RP builds are with less than 8 levels of barb?
taking that many level is a great idea exactly because of the better rage powers.
you can't possibly enter RP until level 7 or so anyways, so not entering it until CL9 or 10 is hardly a stretch.
further, even if you enter it as soon as possible, you will FINISH the PrC before reaching 20, at which point taking more barb levels may very well make alot of sense. of course, there's no reason you even need to finish the PrC in the first place, nor is there any reason you can't 'dip back in' to Barbarian mid-way thru RP progression.
i had just seen that builds with 6 levels of barb were being mooted, so i thought 'why not take 2 more levels'?

good scaling low level rage powers: (there's plenty of other good ones that don't scale)
Strength Surge - scales very well, very awesome for offence and defense
Superstition - scales well, strong power if not for everybody's taste
Surprise Accuracy - scales pretty well, useful for anything with attack roll on your turn (swift action)
Reckless Abandon - scaling effect trading AC for attack bonus
Roaring Drunk - scaling bonus to Intimidate AND FEAR EFFECTS (i.e. spells)
Witch Hunter is scaling damage, but more importantly allows taking Spell Sunder

it's a good idea to look at Barbarian archetypes, many of them can work very well with RP.


Quandary wrote:

why do you think most RP builds are with less than 8 levels of barb?

taking that many level is a great idea exactly because of the better rage powers.
you can't possibly enter RP until level 7 or so anyways, so not entering it until CL9 or 10 is hardly a stretch.
further, even if you enter it as soon as possible, you will FINISH the PrC before reaching 20, at which point taking more barb levels may very well make alot of sense.
i had just seen that builds with 6 levels of barb were being mooted, so i thought 'why not take 2 more levels'?

good scaling low level rage powers: (there's plenty of other good ones that don't scale)
Strength Surge - scales very well, very awesome for offence and defense
Superstition - scales well, strong power if not for everybody's taste
Surprise Accuracy - scales pretty well, useful for anything with attack roll on your turn (swift action)
Reckless Abandon - scaling effect trading AC for attack bonus
Roaring Drunk - scaling bonus to Intimidate AND FEAR EFFECTS (i.e. spells)
Witch Hunter is scaling damage, but more importantly allows taking Spell Sunder

it's a good idea to look at Barbarian archetypes, many of them can work very well with RP.

Character is an urban barb. The superstitous does work too well cant cast spells while raging kinda ruins the whole RP schtick.

8 levels of barb would mean a build like:

barb 8/ oracle 1/ rp 3/inquisitor 4.... it doesnt give him the levels he wanted in inquisitor or rp...


Sounds like you're the DM looking to help your player realize his character concept. If a dip into oracle is hurting the build, I would recommend that you alter the PrC to accommodate the inquisitor (maybe change the rage prophet mystery for judgments or something; I'm not as familiar with the inquisitor).

As for rage powers... I agree, in a way. Many of the rage powers that people claim are "awesome" don't come until much later in the game. Leveling up and realizing that one of your features this level adds a whopping +1 damage to a single attack (that could miss) while you rage is far from exciting. I don't have any advice for that.

EDIT: Earlier advice about renaming/reskinning abilities can go a long way to realizing character concepts.


FOG: we really , really try to stay very far away from house rules as much as possible.

upon further research on improved uncanny dodge.

:
EVEN cinnabar cannot sneak attack a 5th level barbarian. she has 3 levels of rogue and 6 levels of red mantis assassin, so 9 levels, right? BUT Red mantis assassin does not get sneak attack every other level like a rogue, they get it every three levels, so her effective rogue level would be 8 not 9, meaning is improved uncanny dodge would allow him to be surrounded by red mantis (in theory) and not get sneak attacked) so 5 levels of barb in this case is quite enough to do everything he intends it to


superstitious does absolutely nothing to prevent casting a spell. zip. zilch. nada.

regardless, the RP ability also scales your oracle revelations, so looking at revelations that have no/low level-reqs but still scale well is also part of taking advantage of RP.
you may not like RP in the end, many people seem not to. i tend to house-rule a few bits and corners of it myself,
primarily removing the pre-req for moment of clarity, which if you don't have, you miss out on several class abilities, but that should be your choice.
(functionally, i find that it isn't useful to take early on, it's only useful after you have good spells AND enough rage rounds/equivalent, AND the class abilities that apply to it)


superstition states the barbarian cannot be the willing target of any spell during a rage (that would include self healing or buffs) kinda puts a damper on the point of rage prophet like i said. sure he can cast them but then he needs to save vs. himself.


Quandary wrote:

superstitious does absolutely nothing to prevent casting a spell. zip. zilch. nada.

regardless, the RP ability also scales your oracle revelations, so looking at revelations that have no/low level-reqs but still scale well is also part of taking advantage of RP.
you may not like RP in the end, many people seem not to. i tend to house-rule a few bits and corners of it myself,
primarily removing the pre-req for moment of clarity, which if you don't have, you miss out on several class abilities, but that should be your choice.
(functionally, i find that it isn't useful to take early on, it's only useful after you have good spells AND enough rage rounds/equivalent, AND the class abilities that apply to it)

character is an urban barbarian, controlled rage effectively does the same thing as moment of clarity, so one of our rare house rules, is controlled rage subs for moment of clarity.


Well, if he wants the 5 rounds per day of bane (which it sounds like he does) and the barbs uncanny dodge (again, sounds like he does) and the whole ghost touch/spell slots for rage from rage prophet (sounds like he does), the only real advice I could give him is to get the lower level powers that scale. Several have been mentioned, and no, none of them are all that awe inspiring, most of the nice rage powers take 8 levels or more in barbarian specifically to prevent dipping like what your talking about.

Short of house ruling something, I can't really think of a better suggestion than either deal with the so so rage powers, or make some hard brutal decisions about what he really wants (I have to do that with fighters all the time, always want an extra feat or 5 lol)

I'm curious, he is aware that the bane power from inquisitor is only for 5 rounds per day (which can be broken up, just can't exceed 5 rounds) right? It just seems a bit odd to be wanting inquisitor for that.


no actually he wants inquisitor for access to their spell list through RP. the character was originally going to play an magus inquisitor, but his ides fleshed out this way instead.

The skills and some of the lower level stuff the inquisitor gets are also an incentive to go into the class. he actually wants things like stern gaze and monster lore as well as team work feats.

The Bane ability is just the stopping point for that part of the build. and im sure 5 rounds per day of bane will be just fine.

Stalwart seems really cool an we have YET to have an inquisitor live to get to that level in any of our parties. but 11 levels of inquisitor just aren't gong to fit into this build without dropping oracle and RP, which would kill his own concept and theme. So Bane is where he stops at.

Besides, he will still get plenty of inquisitor spells when he goes into RP as inquisitor doesn't have high level spells anyway (something of a draw back for eldritch knights and mystic theurges which is a non issue for an inquisitor/rp)

level 6 also happens to be the cut off for anger inquisitions second power that gives him another 3 levels of effective barbarian for rage and adds his wisdom score to rounds of rage...so thats WHY its, babarian 5, inquisitor 6, oracle 1, that's 12 levels, giving another 6 left for RP (or 8 if he went all the way to level 20) so the levels for each class are essentially defaulted out.

and the only question remains with two rage powers what to do...it seems quick reflexes and surprise accuracy (the only one of the two that scales) will be the choices.

now back to my original point, of the ones the character can choose, which ones are waaaay better than rogue talents? as people stated?


Pendagast wrote:
character is an urban barbarian, controlled rage effectively does the same thing as moment of clarity, so one of our rare house rules, is controlled rage subs for moment of clarity.

well, it still can't cast spells per RAW, but however you want to run it is cool.

(note: at first i thought it got rid of the no-concentrating thing as well, but noticed on 2nd reading that it didn't)
(note(2): technically the 'no concentration' clause of Rage doesn't impede Swift Action spells... >8-D)

re: superstition, yeah you would have to save vs. any self-targetting effects that allowed a save, but that is hardly identical to 'not being able to cast'. re: interests of self-healing, all the cure spells still do 1/2 healing on a save, so it isn't the worse thing in the world. that said, i understand why it may not be as attractive. anyhow, if you have a decent WIS for inquisitor casting, you should have good will saves anyways and not need superstitious.

regardless, there's plenty of good rage powers, scaling and non-scaling, that one can take with no or very low level pre-reqs.
it really does sound like the player is just wanting to get more out of the system than you are supposed to when m-classing.


Well, if that is how he feels, then yeah, I'd suggest either accepting that his barbarian levels are there for the static boost while raging, uncanny dodge, and hit points.


honestly, i would heavily suggest going full inquisitor with rage/anger domains.
maybe dipping in barbarian to get rage power access.


Quandary wrote:

honestly, i would heavily suggest going full inquisitor with rage/anger domains.

maybe dipping in barbarian to get rage power access.

then he doesnt get his crowd controlly stuff uncanny and improved.

once he becomes a RP he CAN cast and rage (the point of the PRC essentially) superstitious would be a stick in the mud for that


he can just go deeper into barb (5) and inquisitor from there.
if he doesn't actually care about bane, etc, m-classing with cleric also works,
there's several archetypes that allow some alt class abilities more in the inquisitor vein,
and a 2nd domain also helps achieve that.
anyhow, it sounds like most of the options are layed out.


yes it was just rage powers (essentially two of them) and how much more power and choices are given away with rogue talents at lower levels than with rage powers.

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