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TWF Barbarian


A player in my group wants to have an Urban Barbarian Oracle Rage Prophet that ultimately two weapon fights with sawtooth sabers.

He saw the weapon in the CotCT players guide. Says it looks cool.

His Oracle mystery is ancestor and he took the ancestor weapon for sawtooth saber.

So character concept is he's a reincarnation of an ancient shoanti guardian (no the player doesnt know guardian of what yet), but his choice of sawtooth saber is quite weird. I tried to discourage it says his strength was higher than his dex and weapon finesse wouldnt get him anywhere, but his idea is to eventually pick up two weapon fighting in which case light weapons would be best.

So the question is three fold:

1) the player doesnt know what a Red Mantis assassin is, but he carries around their weapon, allegedly somehow bestowed upon him through inheritance. How would a reincarnated shoanti guardian be using an "ancestral weapon" that isn't tied in anyway to barbarians of ages past, and at the same time tied to assassin cult and how would that negatively affect him RP wise?

2) what barbarian abilities, powers and feats are best for this build?

3) is there a better archetype for him (thematically its pretty good, a shoanti orphan who grew up in korvosa and "inherited his oracle-ness" and eventually go rage prophet , should proabably start out as an urban barbarian.)

Grand Lodge

1) is easy...his grandpappy killed a high ranking red mantis in one of his adventures and kept the pretty little knife for his little girl.


I really can't say that tribe of shoanti barbarians would use sawtooth sabers. However bunch of shoanti's get into more civilized society. Just like all other races they can be found in cities.

You could reflavour and invent a new weapon maybe which is similar to the saber.

2) As far as you will go with Barbarian regarding TWF builds is getting the first feat to reduce the penalties, so you need 15 Dex but no more then that. Feats have probably similar routine as other two weapon fighters. You should prioritize attack bonus if possible.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Guess what the Iconic Barbarian Amiri is going to give her grandchild?

A large sized Bastard Sword.

Trust me, you can flavor in the Sawtooth Sabre in.

Silver Crusade

Question: I know that you can use a large bastard sword in two hands as a martial weapon. Does the same apply to a dwarven waraxe? Can you use a large waraxe in two hands as a martial weapon?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
Question: I know that you can use a large bastard sword in two hands as a martial weapon. Does the same apply to a dwarven waraxe? Can you use a large waraxe in two hands as a martial weapon?


You need Exotic Weapon Proficiency with both to wield a large version in two hands.

Personally i like the idea remember it can be used as a martial long sword.

As to the questions.

1/ If the barbarians most famous ancestor protected someone of great importance (but not a true king of course) from a powerful red mantis assassin (i wish my brain didn't just add other color mantis assassins in a power ranger like display :P) and was granted the weapon as a sign of honor then the strange long sword could have easilly become part of his ancestor oracle gifts.

2/ Not knowing his stats ect. it's kinda hard to suggest things here and to quote blackbloodedtroll from many, many threads

blackbloodedtroll wrote:

What books are available?

What Races are available?

3/ Urban does seem the logical choice and invunerable rager can be added to it for extra fun.

Oracle wise possessed could be interesting as it may indicate said ancestor is doing alot more than it should and for what reasons is best left up to your imagenation or seeker could give you a fairly conanesque barbarian/rogue feel.

Silver Crusade

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
Question: I know that you can use a large bastard sword in two hands as a martial weapon. Does the same apply to a dwarven waraxe? Can you use a large waraxe in two hands as a martial weapon?


You need Exotic Weapon Proficiency with both to wield a large version in two hands.

A medium creature treats a large one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. A medium creature cannot wield a large one-handed weapon in one hand; they must use two hands to wield it at all.

So, a large longsword is a two-handed weapon for a medium creature. Both a bastard sword and a dwarven waraxe are one-handed weapons, therefore large versions of both are two-handed weapons for medium creature.

So, a medium creature wielding a large bastard sword must wield it two-handed.

Bastard sword wrote:-

'...A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon.'

Is the medium creature wielding a large bastard sword two-handed? Yes!

If you're wielding a bastard sword two-handed, can you use it as a martial weapon? Yes!

So, I'm golden with a large bastard sword, but what about a waraxe?

Waraxe, Dwarven wrote:-

'... A Medium character can use a dwarven waraxe two-handed as a martial weapon, or a Large creature can use it one-handed in the same way...'

There it is! Thanks, BBT! Talking with you has helped me see it for myself!


To the OP: the most recently published material for the Sawtooth Sabre has changed it somewhat. It is no longer considered a light weapon except for calculating TWF penalties.

Whether this is a nerf or a boon is a matter of perspective.

It's no longer finesseable. So it's not as good for builds that pump DEX. It's no longer a light weapon so using it in 2 hands grants 1.5x STR so it could be a boon for a Barbarian if he has decent STR.

If it was me I'd let the Player select which version he/she prefers and run with it.

Edit: damn auto correct

Well, since no one has said this (since perhaps it's too obvious) Battle Oracle with the Lame curse pretty much sells itself from an effectiveness standpoint. I've been looking around for a good TWF Barb build, but the consensus seems to be between Barbs being a bit feat starved, and basically built for 2hw fighting it just makes more sense to do instead of TWF.

I recently stumbled across this Rage Prophet Build that looks pretty good, but I haven't played it myself.

yes possessed came to mind.

so no "Big Issues" with having a sawtooth saber?

What are the new stats for this weapon via pathfinder? Id rather not buy a 50 book to get the new version of a single weapon.

And really, why would their be? The player's enjoyment is what really matters, the fluff is whatever you want it to be.

If he wanted to fight with a magic pixie wand that he inherited from a long lost grandmother, or play a gunslinger named 'sarcastro' who relied exclusively on harsh language, it should be good game.

As long as it doesn't break the game, it's legit.

Sawtooth Sabre is now a 1 handed exotic weapon with identical stats to a long sword except price (35gp) and weight (2 lbs).

Proficiency with long swords allows you to use it but exotic proficiency lets you treat it as a light weapon for lessening the penalties of dual wielding.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

A good thing about the Sawtooth Sabre is, you can two hand it on single attacks, while still gaining the benefits of counting as a light weapon for two weapon fighting.

IVe decided to let the barb do this because thematically it i cool, let me know if this is RAw or RAI or house brew?

The Barb has a 12 dex (we roll 3d6 and re roll ones for stats and make due with what we get, it is so much more fun) So he cannot take TWF feat, technically. So I will let him take the TWF feat, but when he rages (he's an urban barbarian) he has the option to controlled rage and bump dex to 16, in which case he can TWF but only during his rage.

The character concept would be a crowd slayer, one that jumps into the middle of a fight surrounded by enemies and cuts his way out. so most of the time, he's a sword and board fighter, but when confronted with mobs and gobs, whip out the other weapon and go to town.

When hes not raging, or choses to bump another stat with his rage, his TWF is worthless, unless he finds magic that can boost it.

What say ye all?

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