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Do these bonuses stack?


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I have a couple situations that are making me scratch my head and I cannot locate answers in the forums or rulebooks.

1) Do the traits Indomitable Fait (+1 Will save) and Loyalty (+1 vs enchantment; Grand Lodge) stack? If they stack a character could effectively get a +2 trait bonus against enchantment effects that require Will saves.

2) Do eyes of the eagle and minor burglar boots stack? The first gives a +5 competence bonus to perception checks, the latter gives a +5 competence bonus to Perception checks to spot or locate traps and devices on the floor.

Thanks Muchly!


Bonuses of the same type do no stack unless they are circumstance, dodge, or racial. Trait bonuses would not stack with other trait bonuses and competence bonuses would not stack with other competence bonuses.


1. yes

2. no. Just get eyes of the eagle since it applies to all perception checks.


wraithstrike; if both Indomitable Faith and Loyalty are trait bonuses they should not stack.


Yes to the first; the first gives a +1 to all Will Saves as a Trait Bonus.

The second gives a +1 to all Saves V.S. Enchantment effects. Should the Saving Throw be a Will Save, and an Enchantment-type effect (whether sub-type or otherwise), the bonuses will stack to +2.

Yes to the second as well; The +5 Competence Bonus received from the Eagle Eyes is a general +5 bonus to Perception. The +5 Competence Bonus to detect floor plate traps, while also Perception based is situational, and would apply no different than a Bane Weapon attacking a creature who's type is the same as the Bane Enchantment type applied to the weapon.


Ah, is Loyalty not a trait bonus (couldn't get it to load up on the pfsrd)?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Quote:
Loyalty: You resist attempts to dissuade you from obeying the Decemvirate’s will. You gain a +1 trait bonus on saves against enchantment spells and spell-like abilities.

Loyalty does provide a trait bonus.


The Elusive Jackalope wrote:
wraithstrike; if both Indomitable Faith and Loyalty are trait bonuses they should not stack.

I did not know loyalty was a trait. In that case they don't stack. :)


Then it would not stack with Indomitable Faith. Only circumstance, dodge, and racial bonuses stack.

The PRD, Bonus Types wrote:
Usually, a bonus has a type that indicates how the spell grants the bonus. The important aspect of bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don't generally stack. With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus of a given type works (see Combining Magical Effects). The same principle applies to penalties—a character taking two or more penalties of the same type applies only the worst one, although most penalties have no type and thus always stack. Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source.
The PRD, Traits wrote:
Many traits grant a new type of bonus: a “trait” bonus. Trait bonuses do not stack—they're intended to give player characters a slight edge, not a secret backdoor way to focus all of a character's traits on one type of bonus and thus gain an unseemly advantage. It's certainly possible, for example, that somewhere down the line, a “Courageous” trait might be on the list of dwarf race traits, but just because this trait is on both the dwarf race traits list and the basic combat traits list doesn't mean you're any more brave if you choose both versions than if you choose only one.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

What a relief; I almost felt dirty for a moment for disagreeing with wraithstrike in a rules thread.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Fantastic, I really appreciate you guys confirming what, as a player I was hoping wouldn't be true, but as a GM what I was hoping would be true :P


The Elusive Jackalope wrote:
What a relief; I almost felt dirty for a moment for disagreeing with wraithstrike in a rules thread.

LOL. Thanks.


Another reason why Eagle Eyes stacks with the boots:

"Benefit: You ignore up to –5 in penalties due to distance on visual Perception checks, allowing you to see accurately at much greater distances than most."


I was just referring to the bonus itself. I also think you posted in the incorrect thread by accident. :)


Eyes of the eagle, Monk, not eagle eyes.
The magic items do not stack. They both provide a competence bonus.


I seem to be missing something here. Why would Loyalty and Indomitable Will not stack?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Trait bonuses don't stack with trait bonuses.


Nope. Right thread but Eagle Eyes is a feat, though a dumb one, and Eyes of the Eagle is a magic item. My mistake. Of course they don't stack.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Trait bonuses don't stack with trait bonuses.

They wouldn't stack if they affected the same things.

A +1 Trait Bonus to Saving Throws v.s. Enchantment Spells/SLA's, and a +1 Trait Bonus to Will Saves in general are two separate things.

Why would these not stack again? Because they are Trait Bonuses? Meaning you can only have a single "Trait Bonus" (to any specific stat) active at a time? Why even have the +1 V.S. Enchantment Spells/SLA's, when the +1 Will Saves, in general, covers more and does the same thing, according to that ruling?


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Why would these not stack again?

"Stacking: Stacking refers to the act of adding together bonuses or penalties that apply to one particular check or statistic. Generally speaking, most bonuses of the same type do not stack. Instead, only the highest bonus applies. Most penalties do stack, meaning that their values are added together. Penalties and bonuses generally stack with one another, meaning that the penalties might negate or exceed part or all of the bonuses, and vice versa."


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Some traits are better than others. Some do the exact some thing.
Mostly, they are there to develop flavor.

So, whether one is better than the other is meaningless.

Trait bonuses do not stack.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
\Why would these not stack again? Because they are Trait Bonuses? Meaning you can only have a single "Trait Bonus" (to any specific stat) active at a time? Why even have the +1 V.S. Enchantment Spells/SLA's, when the +1 Will Saves, in general, covers more and does the same thing, according to that ruling?

Indomitable Faith will give a +1 trait bonus on Will saves. Loyalty will give a +1 trait bonus on saving throws vs. enchantment spells and spell like abilities. They both apply to the same roll (Will save), and you can only have 1 trait bonus to Will saves apply at a time.

Cheliax

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Trait bonuses don't stack with trait bonuses.

They wouldn't stack if they affected the same things.

A +1 Trait Bonus to Saving Throws v.s. Enchantment Spells/SLA's, and a +1 Trait Bonus to Will Saves in general are two separate things.

Why would these not stack again? Because they are Trait Bonuses? Meaning you can only have a single "Trait Bonus" (to any specific stat) active at a time? Why even have the +1 V.S. Enchantment Spells/SLA's, when the +1 Will Saves, in general, covers more and does the same thing, according to that ruling?

If the saving throw for an enchantment spell is a will save then they are the same thing, and therefore don't stack. Hypothetically you could have an enchantment spell that offers a fortitude or reflex save in which case Loyalty would still be giving you a bonus.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Trait bonuses don't stack with trait bonuses.

They wouldn't stack if they affected the same things.

A +1 Trait Bonus to Saving Throws v.s. Enchantment Spells/SLA's, and a +1 Trait Bonus to Will Saves in general are two separate things.

Why would these not stack again? Because they are Trait Bonuses? Meaning you can only have a single "Trait Bonus" (to any specific stat) active at a time? Why even have the +1 V.S. Enchantment Spells/SLA's, when the +1 Will Saves, in general, covers more and does the same thing, according to that ruling?

Simply because you may wish to take a different faith trait, but still wish to have some sort of boost to your will saves, especially against the school they are most used against.


So I figured that the kitsune racial +1 to enchantment spells and racial favored class bonus of 1/4 enchanent/level. Stack and the sorcerer fey bloodline +2 to compulsion stack as well so it's 3-8 from 1-20 depending on where you are. So the question is... Those also should work on enchantment and or compulsion spell likes as well yes?

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