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The island did not prove a comfortable getaway.

Finally Theo found out the really important secret.

Sovereign Court

The last episode was pretty meh. Except a nice trip down memory lane.


I reiterate my prediction that Tommy and/or Sara will be resurrected by the League by the end of this season. Tommy has been in way more flashbacks this season, almost unneccessarily.


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I feel Slade just needs Oliver to give him a hug.


DM Barcas wrote:
I reiterate my prediction that Tommy and/or Sara will be resurrected by the League by the end of this season. Tommy has been in way more flashbacks this season, almost unneccessarily.

I'm hoping Tommy. I'm hoping he is turned into an assassin by the league and comes after his dad.

I've been expecting a revival since I first heard that Ras was showing up this season.


Resurrecting Sara and sending her after Malcolm might make a certain amount of sense, given that he was responsible for her death; resurrecting Tommy and spending months (it should be years, but we all know what this show is like) turning him into an assassin makes no sense at all. Way too much time and effort invested for something the League can do much more easily some other way.

From the League's point of view, their best bet may be to bring Thea to Nanda Parbat for advanced training and point her at Malcolm; they get the same advantage of Malcolm having to fight his own child, without having to use the Lazarus Pit and then start training someone new from scratch.

Malcolm said Ras would kill Thea because she's the one who fired the shots that killed Sara, but Malcolm could be either wrong or lying. If he knows what drug was used to control Thea, Ras might see her as a weapon, no more deserving of punishment for Sara's death than the bow or the arrows.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

In the comics, at least post brightest day/pre reboot, there was a White Canary. I thought we were going to see China White take on the mantle, but a resurrected Sara would fit as well.


Matthew Morris wrote:
In the comics, at least post brightest day/pre reboot, there was a White Canary. I thought we were going to see China White take on the mantle, but a resurrected Sara would fit as well.

...as a serial killer? White Canary was a straight up villain.


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It was fun to see Crixus... err... Slade again. He was a very entertaining villain.


Damon Griffin wrote:

Resurrecting Sara and sending her after Malcolm might make a certain amount of sense, given that he was responsible for her death; resurrecting Tommy and spending months (it should be years, but we all know what this show is like) turning him into an assassin makes no sense at all. Way too much time and effort invested for something the League can do much more easily some other way.

From the League's point of view, their best bet may be to bring Thea to Nanda Parbat for advanced training and point her at Malcolm; they get the same advantage of Malcolm having to fight his own child, without having to use the Lazarus Pit and then start training someone new from scratch.

Malcolm said Ras would kill Thea because she's the one who fired the shots that killed Sara, but Malcolm could be either wrong or lying. If he knows what drug was used to control Thea, Ras might see her as a weapon, no more deserving of punishment for Sara's death than the bow or the arrows.

Not if Tommy is already alive. Merlyn had already failed the League when Tommy died. It has been at least a year, maybe two since he died. Moreover, they did not know Thea was his child. He absolutely could be pointed at Malcom, even half-assed, hoping that he would have just enough skill to force his father into murdering him.

I'm not saying it will happen, but I'd like more Tommy than I would more Sara.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Damon Griffin wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
In the comics, at least post brightest day/pre reboot, there was a White Canary. I thought we were going to see China White take on the mantle, but a resurrected Sara would fit as well.
...as a serial killer? White Canary was a straight up villain.

Well, depending on how Arrow's pits work, and the drug that Malcom used on Thea, a revived Sara, who's set out to kill Merlin and team Arrow could take the name 'white canary' since Malcom killed her as Black Canary.


Having gotten to "know" the character of Slade Wilson during the '80s run of Teen Titans, now that he's back in the main storyline I keep wondering whether Jericho or Wintergreen will show up (or the Titans themselves; does anyone know if any treatment of them aside from the animated show is in the works).


Readerbreeder wrote:
Having gotten to "know" the character of Slade Wilson during the '80s run of Teen Titans, now that he's back in the main storyline I keep wondering whether Jericho or Wintergreen will show up (or the Titans themselves; does anyone know if any treatment of them aside from the animated show is in the works).

Spoilered since it's from the latest episode:
]Given that he's already back in the prison, and he was let out as a way to try and force Ollie and Thea into being killers, it's quite possible that he may not even be showing up again for quite some time. Not that I'd object to him, Slade was done really well.

So they may not even tie in any of his own related characters, at least not with him as a cause.


Readerbreeder wrote:
... (or the Titans themselves; does anyone know if any treatment of them aside from the animated show is in the works).

There is a Teen Titans live action series in the works. Last I heard, it was supposed to feature Robin (Dick Grayson), Starfire, Raven, Barbara Gordon, and Hawk and Dove.

A friend of mine recently wrote an article about it here.

Dark Archive

Readerbreeder wrote:
Having gotten to "know" the character of Slade Wilson during the '80s run of Teen Titans, now that he's back in the main storyline I keep wondering whether Jericho or Wintergreen will show up (or the Titans themselves; does anyone know if any treatment of them aside from the animated show is in the works).

In the Arrow-verse, 'Billy' Wintergreen was another commando sent to the island, Slade's partner, who wore an identical mask and ended up on opposite sides from him, working with the bad-guys that the commandos were apparently sent to stop.

Jericho seems even less likely (with Isabel / Summer Glau's character kind of filling the protégé role on the show, and Slade no longer being a focus).


Set wrote:
Readerbreeder wrote:
Having gotten to "know" the character of Slade Wilson during the '80s run of Teen Titans, now that he's back in the main storyline I keep wondering whether Jericho or Wintergreen will show up (or the Titans themselves; does anyone know if any treatment of them aside from the animated show is in the works).

In the Arrow-verse, 'Billy' Wintergreen was another commando sent to the island, Slade's partner, who wore an identical mask and ended up on opposite sides from him, working with the bad-guys that the commandos were apparently sent to stop.

Jericho seems even less likely (with Isabel / Summer Glau's character kind of filling the protégé role on the show, and Slade no longer being a focus).

While I agree with you about Slade no longer being a focus (which is a damn shame, easily the best villain/non-original character on the show thus far), Isabel was more akin to Rose Wilson, not Jericho.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

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Also, right now Manu Bennett is in New Zealand filming the first season of Shannara, so I wouldn't expect Slade to show up again in Arrow this season.


Cthulhudrew wrote:
Readerbreeder wrote:
... (or the Titans themselves; does anyone know if any treatment of them aside from the animated show is in the works).

There is a Teen Titans live action series in the works. Last I heard, it was supposed to feature Robin (Dick Grayson), Starfire, Raven, Barbara Gordon, and Hawk and Dove.

A friend of mine recently wrote an article about it here.

That would be awesome. I could wish they would include Cyborg, but it appears they are saving him for a Justice League treatment, at least in his TV/movie incarnation.

@Set: I missed that about Wintergreen; was that based on a significant piece of an episode, or a throwaway line/easter egg that I missed?

@Kain: I agree about Summer Glau's character; if you were going to assign her a character, Rose Wilson would be a good fit.

@JoelF847: Shannara!? Don't tell me they've cast Manu Bennett as Allanon?

Dark Archive

Readerbreeder wrote:
@Set: I missed that about Wintergreen; was that based on a significant piece of an episode, or a throwaway line/easter egg that I missed?

It was mentioned a few times, and I vaguely recall some sort of fight between Slade and Wintergreen, where, IIRC, Slade finally ended up killing him. Blah, blah, we used to be best friends, saved each others lives, and then teary betrayal and stabby-stab.

I might be paraphrasing that a bit...

:)

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Readerbreeder wrote:
@JoelF847: Shannara!? Don't tell me they've cast Manu Bennett as Allanon?

Okay, I won't tell you, but it's true nonetheless.


Set wrote:
Readerbreeder wrote:
@Set: I missed that about Wintergreen; was that based on a significant piece of an episode, or a throwaway line/easter egg that I missed?

It was mentioned a few times, and I vaguely recall some sort of fight between Slade and Wintergreen, where, IIRC, Slade finally ended up killing him. Blah, blah, we used to be best friends, saved each others lives, and then teary betrayal and stabby-stab.

I might be paraphrasing that a bit...

:)

Oliver and Yao Fei confronted a man wearing the Deathstroke mask several times in the flashbacks from season 1. This man worked for Eddie Fyers on the Isle.

That was Wintergreen. Slade told Oliver that they were both Australian SF when Oliver found Slade's own deathstroke mask.


JoelF847 wrote:
Readerbreeder wrote:
@JoelF847: Shannara!? Don't tell me they've cast Manu Bennett as Allanon?
Okay, I won't tell you, but it's true nonetheless.

Does that count as a non-confirming confirmation? :)

Anyhow, I had always pictured Allanon as a bit taller and leaner, but Bennett definitely has the attitude down, if his stint as Slade is any indication.


Kain Darkwind wrote:
Set wrote:
Readerbreeder wrote:
@Set: I missed that about Wintergreen; was that based on a significant piece of an episode, or a throwaway line/easter egg that I missed?

It was mentioned a few times, and I vaguely recall some sort of fight between Slade and Wintergreen, where, IIRC, Slade finally ended up killing him. Blah, blah, we used to be best friends, saved each others lives, and then teary betrayal and stabby-stab.

I might be paraphrasing that a bit...

:)

Oliver and Yao Fei confronted a man wearing the Deathstroke mask several times in the flashbacks from season 1. This man worked for Eddie Fyers on the Isle.

That was Wintergreen. Slade told Oliver that they were both Australian SF when Oliver found Slade's own deathstroke mask.

It seems I need to go back and re-watch season 1. Although I don't flip out when it's not there, I appreciate it when the show runners throw a bone to the long-term fandom who are paying attention.


That ending though....

Sovereign Court

HE'S STEALING BATMAN'S GIG


Hama wrote:
HE'S STEALING BATMAN'S GIG

Honestly good. Not everything awesome needs to go to the most over the top superhero ever.


Soooo actual Lazurus pit!


Palmer's IQ being only 140 is...surprising considering the impossible supertech he's invented.


Rynjin wrote:
Palmer's IQ being only 140 is...surprising considering the impossible supertech he's invented.

He didn't really invent all that much that we've seen, though, has he? The specs on the suit he got mainly from info he obtained when he took over Queen Enterprises. Felicity figured out how to get some key parts of it working.

I can't think offhand of a whole lot he's been shown or described as doing, honestly, which is too bad. I feel as if he's kind of been dumbed down a bit since he first appeared on the show.

Sovereign Court

140 is still above average.


Hama wrote:
140 is still above average.

Yes, but not anywhere near genius level, and certainly not the level I'd expect from a man who has created a flying super suit that shoots lightning bolts and laser beams.

Or maybe I just have yet to unlock my untapped potential! I'll get right on that!

Sovereign Court

Hey, I have 166 and have done nothing with my life.


Cthulhudrew wrote:
I can't think offhand of a whole lot he's been shown or described as doing, honestly, which is too bad. I feel as if he's kind of been dumbed down a bit since he first appeared on the show.

Yeah, he seemed a lot smarter when he first showed up. I feel like Summer Glau's character came off as smarter than Ray at this point.

The 140 IQ just goes to show that money and access to resources is a superpower in itself.


Is Ray Palmer made up for the show, or does he actually represent someone in the DC universe? I only read Batman and Flash, and not even that religiously, so please forgive my stupidity.


Mark Hoover wrote:
Is Ray Palmer made up for the show, or does he actually represent someone in the DC universe? I only read Batman and Flash, and not even that religiously, so please forgive my stupidity.

He's The Atom.

He's supposed to shrink, I thought.


Yes, he's been around since the early '60s but was never an A-list character. In the comics, Ray Palmer was a graduate student in physics who discovered a way to shrink things using a piece of a white dwarf star. He got trapped in a cave-in, and was forced to risk the process on himself to get out.

He created the superhero identity of The Atom. He's able to shrink to submicroscopic size, but as a rule switches between his normal height and about six inches.

DC comics continuity being what it is (non-existent, over the long term), Palmer has been replaced as The Atom, come back, had his backstory changed, etc.


And now, he's a billionaire playboy philanthropist with a flying metal suit that shoots energy blasts out of its hands and an Arc reactor controlling his hear... Oh, wait. Sorry, I was getting him mixed up with Iron Man. I wonder why I did that.


Yeah, I'm hoping they will get him shrinking soon rather than staying discount Iron Man. Still, he's only just starting out, so considering they've kept the name and the suit there's a very real chance they will go that way.


A TV Guide article in early February confirmed shrinking in A.T.O.M.'s future, though hints it wasn't part of Palmer's original design, but the result of an epiphany he gets after Felicity's input on the chip.

Can't find any trace of that article online.


Shrinking... flying... energy blasts... Is he Iron Man or the Wasp? Anyway good times.

I just wish they'd resolve him and move on. The whole rest of the show is gritty and filled with angst, and then there's Ray. Kind of like The Flash, only backwards. The whole Flash show is a lighthearted romp, and then there's Dr Wells.


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Mark Hoover wrote:

Shrinking... flying... energy blasts... Is he Iron Man or the Wasp? Anyway good times.

I just wish they'd resolve him and move on. The whole rest of the show is gritty and filled with angst, and then there's Ray. Kind of like The Flash, only backwards. The whole Flash show is a lighthearted romp, and then there's Dr Wells.

Honestly, I hope they leave him a fairly open aspect of the show. I hate it when shows continuously write off people and characters that they could instead use to flesh out the world. Its my biggest complaint with Supernatural - every potential ally has to be killed off to keep the feel of 2 people on their own static, rather than letting the show evolve and giving them new people they could occasionally call for help.

Liberty's Edge

Palmer's ATOM suit is also a vector for getting OMAC into the Arrow/Flash continuity which is more important with the impending Crisis stuff on the Flash side. Plus Diggle (aka Harbinger) fits in there too.

As for Ollie and stealing Batman's stuff... Well, duh. The Green Arrow was originally just Batman with a different gimmick anyway.

Dark Archive

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Krensky wrote:
As for Ollie and stealing Batman's stuff... Well, duh. The Green Arrow was originally just Batman with a different gimmick anyway.

On the one hand, yes. Complete with Arrow Car and Arrow Cave and teen sidekick.

On the other hand, Ollie was a very different sort of character, in later years, being a mish-mash of Errol Flynn and overgrown manchild and unapologetically politically liberal (unlike most superheroes, who are generally pretty unaligned politically, or, in the case of openly conservative heroes, like Guy Gardner or Hawk or U.S. Agent, portrayed as over-the-top cartoonish jerks), so it's kind of a disappointment to see him all grimdark avenger-y, when he should be *fun.* (Indeed, I feel like I've seen more buckle-swashing 'Oliver' in the thirty seconds of Fandral that appeared in the Thor movies...)

On the other, other hand, Bale/Nolan's version of Batman, was just overwrought and tedious and heavy as lead. Amell's Oliver is ten times more compelling a character than Bale's boring Batman.

Liberty's Edge

Well, despite a lot of the trappings of the later Green Arrow, in a number of ways Amell's Arrow is still in his origin story.

There have been some swashbuckle elements, but it's probably only ever going to be tangential since GA really is filling in for Bats in this continuity, so GA's going to be broody.

That said if he actually gets a girlfriend he might lighten up.

I think if you want 'fun' in the Arrow/Flash universe, you need to focus on the other show. Well, not the last few episodes, but still.


With all of the mayors of Starling City getting killed, does this mean we're eventually going to see a Mayor Oliver Queen?

Liberty's Edge

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While it won't work out this way, but that strikes me as the League overplaying their hand.

Someone: "The Arrow is a dangerous vigilante who killed the mayor for no reason anyone can figure out!"

Palmer: "Because someone's framing him. Like I said earlier."

Others: "Yeah, that makes a lot more sense then the Arrow suddenly going nuts and killing the mayor. It was kinda out of character."

But everyone is going to buy into the idea that the Arrow is randomly killing people because... Arrows.


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Starling City needs to issue Visual Archer Recognition Cards to all law enforcement types. Similar to visual aircraft recognition cards used since WWII, these might allow officers to distinguish between the ever increasing number of them in town:

The Arrow
Arsenal
Malcolm Merlyn/Al Sa-Her/The Magician
Thea Queen
Ra's al Ghul
Nyssa al Ghul
Maseo Yamashiro/Sarab
Carrie Cutter/Cupid
Helena Bertinelli/Huntress

Liberty's Edge

Well, if we're going to list all the people who did archery stuff and are not dead, you left off Diggle/Freelancer.


Krensky wrote:
Well, if we're going to list all the people who did archery stuff and are not dead, you left off Diggle/Freelancer.

Yep, I forgot him. Been a while since John picked up a bow, I think.

Liberty's Edge

While Oliver was presumed dead in Nanda Parbat, if I remember right.

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