Arrow


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Rynjin wrote:
Who wants to put money in the pot that the mid-season takes place 1-2 years later and we find out all about how he came back to life next season in a bunch of flashbacks? =)

I second Cain, not touching that bet.

Interesting concept. And you guys are probably spot on, seeing as the seem to really want to keep the crossover available. Since the Flash now has a place to hang his suit in the

I'm definitely more excited for the next half of the season now.

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There is an awesome fan made poster showing a hand clutching an arrow, erupting from a pool of green liquid. Amell commented that fans are clever.

So I'm betting he'll be back ep.1 or ep.2 after the break tops.


I wish I could find the interview, but Amell has said that he's only in flashbacks for the next three or four episodes after the break. He said it was going to be like a vacation for him.


Hama wrote:

There is an awesome fan made poster showing a hand clutching an arrow, erupting from a pool of green liquid. Amell commented that fans are clever.

So I'm betting he'll be back ep.1 or ep.2 after the break tops.

I'm not familiar enough with the comics to know the significance. What is the green liquid?

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A Lazarus pit. The pit that kept Ra's Al Ghul alive for over 800 years.

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Here is the poster. It is awesome


No comments on Arrow since the break? That's not right! :D

Regarding last night's episode, Midnight City- that is probably the best I've seen either Arsenal (Colton Haynes) or Laurel (Katie Cassidy) in quite a long time. The plot itself was a little hokey, but the performances and the character development were really good. I think KC had a few great performances in season 1, but I haven't seen much of it (nor any decent storylines, which isn't her fault) since. Colton's always been a bit of a dud, and his storylines have sort of dwindled since last season as well, but it was really cool to see Arsenal step up and start making some decisions in Oliver's absence. Roy was introduced as a sort of hothead, and while it's great that part has been toned down, it is also great to see that he's still got the gumption to man up. I just hope he keeps taking initiative that the other members of Team Arrow are reluctant to do and finally just tell Thea the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, like his character has clearly been dying to since season 1.

It was also cool to see that they're not just going to make Laurel suddenly this badass, and that she's still having some doubts about what she's trying to do.

Also, the "prochnost" moment with Diggle and Roy was great. I live for tiny moments like that between characters, and Diggle (and David Ramsey) always really delivers. I wasn't sure about his character when he was first introduced, but he's really grown on me, and Ramsey's joy in playing the part always shines through. Plus, the scene last week when he pulled a gun on Malcolm Merlyn- who proceeded to chide him and remind him of the last time he did that- so he pulled a second gun? Priceless.

EDIT: Also - that is the best Oliver's Flashback Wig has looked in the entire 3 seasons.


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Laurel taking a more prominent role in the show is lessening my interest in it. Hopefully they give her and her shitty acting, unlikeable personality, and terrible judgement a spin off soon so I can proceed to not watch that and get back to enjoying Arrow.


I think that Oliver was actually dead, and that the others are telling him that he miraculously survived to avoid spilling the beans about the Lazarus Pit - and that Maseo raised him at the behest of Ras al Ghul. (That was an awfully specific prayer to mutter before Oliver fell.) Is it my imagination, or are his wound dressings lower than where he was stabbed?

Maybe I just want that to be the case, because it otherwise seems too much of a copout.


I also speculate that both Tommy Merlyn and Sara will be resurrected via the Lazarus Pits by the end of the season. Tommy's appearance in the flashback - and his mention every few episodes - seems like they are trying to keep his memory fresh.

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Oh, I'd pay money for Sara to come back and Laurel to end up on Lian Yu (sp?) for the indefinite forever, but the writers really seem to be sold on this Laurel-as-Black-Canary bit. Caty Loitz really worked that role, and even spent her obligatory 10 seconds on the salmon ladder, something that I doubt her 'sister' will ever be able to pull off.

Tommy? Eh. That's guys 'acting' consisted of clenching his jaw a lot (Tom Welling 2.0?). Laurel's actor gets lots of hate, but that guy was at least as bad, and didn't have the entire writing staff desperately trying to make us like him.

Liked Roy's speech to Laurel. Dude hasn't really had a grown-up moment yet, always being the screw-up that Oliver has to point in the right direction, so it's nice to see him forced to be the adult in the room.

Did not like Roy's wire-assisted 'acrobatics,' where he kicked some guy and then floated majestically up onto the pipe like a zeppelin on it's way to the mooring. Ugh. If the actor (or his stunt double) can't do it, please don't try to have the character do 'cool' feats that involve flying around like something out of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. It's not like the comic book character was the most acrobatic dude, anyway. Save that sort of stuff for Nightwing (or Daredevil or Nightcrawler or Spider-Man).


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I didn't particularly like Sara either, but she was tolerable-to-okay when she wasn't going for the weird raspy voice she did sometimes and just spoke ike a normal human being. I also bought her much more as a fighter. Laurel, you have spent like a month in the gym learning boxing with your new studmuffin, that does not make you a god damn superhero. Go home.

Laurel is just...ugh. I hate everything about her. Her actress is terrible, the character has been poorly written from day 1, and try as they might to give her personality traits ("Ruthless lawyer! Badass-in-training! Recovering drug addict!") none of them seem to stick, and when they inevitably slide off we're still left with someone who has the personality of a piece of wet carboard with an actress seems to make it her sworn duty to take "bland" and turn it into "obnoxious".

That's why I didn't hate Tommy. Tommy was bland, but Tommy's actor knew that Tommy was just there as a plot device, and didn't try to overstretch his abilities.

It also helped that the writers didn't have a hard-on for him so every other subplot was about his problems, most of which he would have brought on himself.

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Set wrote:

Tommy? Eh. That's guys 'acting' consisted of clenching his jaw a lot (Tom Welling 2.0?). Laurel's actor gets lots of hate, but that guy was at least as bad, and didn't have the entire writing staff desperately trying to make us like him.

Liked Roy's speech to Laurel.

I assume you mean Malcolm Merylin?


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My favorite moment in the series so far was Ollie and Roy's exchange in the Arrowcave a few episodes back. Ollie came in, obviously torn up and an internal wreck and Roy comes around and asks

Roy: "You ok?"
Ollie: "Not really."
Both exchange tired, weary looks.
Ollie: "You ok?"
Roy: "Not really."

Everything in that scene was, in my view, a series high-point. I want more of that brotherly weight-sharing and emotional heft between Ollie and Roy. Diggle has some moments like that too, like this last episode's toast with Roy, but it didn't have the same punch.

I'm delighted Laurel is a total clutz, falling on top of vans and getting choked out at every turn. I would be more delighted, like others before me here, if they just stopped trying to force her down our throats. Also, Katie Cassidy is pretty darn pretty, they don't need to bury her in 4 inch-thick layers of make-up every time she's on screen. Everything about her on the show is over done =\

Dark Archive

Hama wrote:
Set wrote:
Liked Roy's speech to Laurel.
I assume you mean Malcolm Merylin?

Nope, that was kind of silly, actually, like a puppy yapping at a lion.

Roy's talk to Laurel, on the other hand, was cool, because he was playing the level-headed person, for the first time.

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Then why did you call Laurel's actress an actor?


It's the same thing, jeez.


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Laurel is pretty boring if you ask me... Not that Sara was much better, actually.

Which is a shame... Black Canary kicks plenty of ass in the comics. She's one of DCU's most skilled martial artists... I was hoping she'd be more awesome in Arrow.

Still... I wonder if they will bring Sara back. They managed to resurrect Ollie, but he wasn't as decomposed as Sara probably is at this point... Although they can always say that someone stole her body at some point or whatever (Talia could possibly do it, since she knows where Sara is buried and has access to the Lazarus Pits).

I wonder if the involvement of Ra's Al Ghul means we'll see some mention of Batman in the future...


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Give it time. Laurel is just barely starting her crimefighting career and even in this series there's no real reason she should be a top tier melee fighter after only a couple of months. Let her get some real training from Wildcat (who, in true CW fashion, was too young and too hot to be the old, grumpy Wildcat I like from BTBATB) and possibly Ollie and I think we'll see she gets better.
I like the show but my main objection is how Ollie is stiff and boring. I want the snarky fork-bearded socialist Ollie, dammit. We're three seasons in, isn't it about time that Green Arrow starts showing up?

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Hama wrote:
Then why did you call Laurel's actress an actor?

'Cause I forgot we still needed a separate word for actors who are women, and was using 'actor' in the sense of 'person who acts.' :)

Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:
Give it time. Laurel is just barely starting her crimefighting career and even in this series there's no real reason she should be a top tier melee fighter after only a couple of months.

I *like* that she isn't all 'more Sara than Sara' after a couple weeks at the gym with 'too young to be Wildcat.' It would feel pretty cheap if she turned out some 'trained for years by the League of Assassins' moves in under a month, after all. :)

I don't like Laurel as Black Canary because the Laurel character has been pretty terrible, pretty much since day one (I have no real opinion on whether or not the actress can act. I vaguely recall liking her in a previous role, so it's entirely possible that the inconsistent writing for this character isn't doing her any favors...). Tell her to do X, and she will do the opposite of X, pretty much every time. Because of that, she's gotten kidnapped, gotten Oliver shot, gotten Tommy Merlyn killed, etc. I'm kind of hoping she doesn't get her dad killed, because I like Paul Blackthorne and his 'Commissioner Gordon' to Arrows Batman, on this show.

Quote:
I like the show but my main objection is how Ollie is stiff and boring. I want the snarky fork-bearded socialist Ollie, dammit. We're three seasons in, isn't it about time that Green Arrow starts showing up?

This Arrow, I fear, will never be the Errol Flynn-esque uber-liberal Oliver Queen of the comic books (indeed, it would seem pretty out of character, at this point, for him to be all quippy and fun-loving, like the comic book GA has been). The show came on the heels of the Nolan Batman movies, and this Arrow character is far more of an ultra-serious Bat-vigilante than the comic book Oliver, for better or worse.

The shows interpretation of Ray Palmer, on the other hand, seems more like the somewhat whimsical playboy idealist than show-Oliver. Perhaps, on the show, Ray will fill the 'Oliver' role, to Oliver's more Batman-like dark justice avenger role.

(Flash also obviously has a more idealistic streak, but he doesn't parallel as well, just being an idealist, and not a *billionaire playboy* idealist out to change the world!)


Yeah, it'd be pretty dumb if Laurel became a super ninja in a few months... What I meant is that I wanted her to be a more badass from the start, or at least a likable character, rather than the whiny annoyance that she is.

The character is very poorly written...


Ok, I found an interesting clip on the Arrow FB page. It contains a very serious spoiler...though I'd already suspected the discovery.

Very serious Arrow spoiler:
In checking on ways to stop Brickwell and get evidence to arrest him, they discover that Brick (or at least someone using Brick's gun) killed Rebecca Merlyn...and Merlyn also knows as he had a hidden camera in the Arrow lair and saw the whole thing.


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By the by, does it seem like the guy who plays Brick is in EVERYTHING lately to anyone else?

He was in the Musketeers show on BBC for an episode, he was a major character in Galavant, and now Arrow. Among a bunch of other bit parts in things I've watched.

Not that I'm complaining. He does "menacing brute" very well.


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Rynjin wrote:

By the by, does it seem like the guy who plays Brick is in EVERYTHING lately to anyone else?

He was in the Musketeers show on BBC for an episode, he was a major character in Galavant, and now Arrow. Among a bunch of other bit parts in things I've watched.

To be fair, Vinnie Jones is awesome and should be in everything. Though I still think his best two rolls are as Big Chris in Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels; and Bullet Tooth Tony in Snatch.

I also considered him to be one of the few redeeming features of X-Men: The Last Stand. Just because him as the Juggernaut made me laugh.


Oh, was he the Juggernaut? Yeah, he was one of the better parts of that movie.

Like I said (which I edited in immediately, but the site has been eating my posts and edits CONSTANTLY lately so I had to do it 3 times), he does "menacing brute" very well. A bit more nuanced than the usual fare for characters with names like "Brick".


Rynjin wrote:

Oh, was he the Juggernaut? Yeah, he was one of the better parts of that movie.

Like I said (which I edited in immediately, but the site has been eating my posts and edits CONSTANTLY lately so I had to do it 3 times), he does "menacing brute" very well. A bit more nuanced than the usual fare for characters with names like "Brick".

Fair Warning: Every link I'm about to post is NSFW to a greater or lesser extent, (mostly just swearing/offensiveness, first link has nudity)

I love his character in Snatch for that reason. Well spoken, but brutal and tough as steel. Always loved his character's introduction:

Snatch - Bullet Tooth Tony | Youtube

And of course one of his speeches from the film:

Snatch - Shrinking Balls | Youtube

Of course pretty much every character in that movie is awesome, from Jason Statham as Turkish and Brad Pitt (in what is probably my favourite role of his) as Mickey(Clip 1, Clip 2) to Alan Ford as Brick Top (Clip 1, Clip 2)

EDIT: Bonus Brick Top scene with my favourite line from him


First look at Brandon Routh in his Atom costume.

I think it looks pretty cool; like a somewhat more realistic version of an armored suit than Iron Man's. Not really Atom like, per se, but still kind of cool (they really should have let them use Ted Kord, since he really is in all but name).

I think the visor would look better if it weren't transparent, but I suspect that may just be that way for the picture, or else it may be able to turn translucent to protect his identity when he needs to.


Reminds me of a more colorful version of the armors used in the first G.I. Joe movie (and maybe the second one too... I don'y know. Only saw the first).

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No armors in 2


Hm. I like everything but the helemt. He looks like he's ready to play a rousing game of sportsball in that helmet.


Yeah, he needs a better faceguard. Other than that, it looks good.


It looks like some of the armors in Mass Effect 2!


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Well Wildcat was an effing disappointment.
And those braindead goons.
"We have automatic guns and are hardened criminals. They have baseball bats and are fearful commoners. Let's charge into melee range instead of just shooting the wankers."

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What did you expect. He gave almost as good as he got, but Brick is well,,,a brick.


Dang, that last episode was... pretty crappy.

For starters, the kids in the flashbacks were TERRIBLE! Gah!

And the riot at the end? What the crap? Why in the world would a small army of criminals with automatic weapons not just spray bullets indiscriminately into the crowd?

And the super cheesy lame speech at the end?

Man.

What a disappointing episode. Blah.


I was also quite disappointed in the episode. I thought Oliver's return was poorly managed, the flashbacks were hammy, and the overall quality wasn't there. The melee against the guys with automatic weapons was disappointing, though I liked Wildcat getting brought in.

That he lost (and died maybe? I'm reminded of the Ember Island Players "Did Jet just die? "I don't know, it was really unclear") was disappointing for me, though I understand that they wanted to set the Brick / Merlyn stuff.

Speaking of, I think the show is better with Merlyn as a fuzzy antagonistic character without being an outright opponent, so I'm ok with the current direction, though again I thought the poor management of his moment with Oliver (especially Oliver's anticlimactic return) was disappoint.

Overall one of the weaker episodes in the season, which has otherwise been pretty good. They definitely seem to be making Oliver more of a Batman character with a wider array of skills than his comic counterpart - though I'm ok with that. I'll be very interested in seeing ow they resolve the League plot line.


I think it was definitely uneven, and that maybe Oliver's return was a little rushed (at least in terms of how this episode handled it). It just feels like the ethical dilemma of working with Merlyn on both sides (Team Arrow and Oliver) was a bit rushed and superficial. I get Roy's point that working with Merlyn might be an asset, but I also think it's strange that either he didn't think about or that no one else mentioned the whole "Yes, he saved Thea, but then he turned her into a zombie assassin" thing. At the very least, I think they really needed to spend a little more time- or more depth- with that whole Team Arrow voting conversation.

It's also a little bit jarring that they went the way they did with Oliver's choice. Sure, they did the whole "only the student can kill the master" conversation, but how does that automatically equate to "well, the only way I can beat Ra's is to get Merlyn to train me?" Wouldn't the more obvious solution be to find a way to force Merlyn to fight his own battle and go against Ra's himself?

I thought Wild Cat did a pretty good job at first- he is definitely the person that hurt Brick the most to date. It was just kind of foolish of him to stand there staring when Brick didn't go down, though, and allow the guy to turn the tables on him. I'm surprised they left his fate as open as they appeared to, although his "You're a better fighter than liar" line when Laurel told him he'd be okay seems to indicate that he's a goner.

(And why was Diggle hanging out in the Arrow Cave rather than being out in the field now that Felicity's back? Dunno.)

All in all, some good moments, but overall an unsatisfying end to this trilogy.

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Well, a first time in a long while that I felt anything but contempt for Laurel.
But now...

Spoiler:
When she told her dad that Sara was dead...the feels

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Cthulhudrew wrote:

First look at Brandon Routh in his Atom costume.

I think it looks pretty cool; like a somewhat more realistic version of an armored suit than Iron Man's. Not really Atom like, per se, but still kind of cool (they really should have let them use Ted Kord, since he really is in all but name).

I think the visor would look better if it weren't transparent, but I suspect that may just be that way for the picture, or else it may be able to turn translucent to protect his identity when he needs to.

I could do without the exposed neck, too.

Dark Archive

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So, in Canaries;

Spoiler:
We get to see Sara beating the crap out of Laurel while saying that she's a fake and doesn't deserve to be wearing her mask. It's like the writers were writing that scene just for me... :)

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Although the show of emotion was really nice when she told Quentin about the thing.


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Yeah, I feel dirty saying it....but Laurel actually did several things right this episode.

The aforementioned scene, and when she realized she's been training in F%$&ING BOXING not "Beat-People-With-Stick-Fu".


Just a little humorous nugget about what it's like to work with John Barrowman on Arrow.
Video.


And it bugged me she was using the tonfa wrong the whole episode.

I really liked it, though. Ollie's fallibility is usually done pretty well, and I appreciate that.

I've been feeling sorry for Detective Lance this whole season. The characters can be real jerks, sometimes.


I thought this last episode had some huge groaner/lazy writer moments like the ones opined from the previous week's episode, but this one had some really good stuff in it too.

Most excellent, in my opinion, was Paul Blackthorne's performance as the Detective Lance that Laurel hallucinated. That was done so well and was just so stinking intense that it made the whole episode worth it.

Then he knocked it out of the park again at the very end with his sobbing, "Oh no- not again- not again!" in his office. Even then though, I thought Cassidy's performance was a little hackneyed, but man - I thought Blackthorne just nailed everything.

---

I also really liked Roy standing up to Ollie. I appreciate how there's still growing pains in their group and I like that Roy's starting to (seemingly) mature and begin to come into his own.


Dal Selpher wrote:

I thought this last episode had some huge groaner/lazy writer moments like the ones opined from the previous week's episode, but this one had some really good stuff in it too.

Most excellent, in my opinion, was Paul Blackthorne's performance as the Detective Lance that Laurel hallucinated. That was done so well and was just so stinking intense that it made the whole episode worth it.

Then he knocked it out of the park again at the very end with his sobbing, "Oh no- not again- not again!" in his office. Even then though, I thought Cassidy's performance was a little hackneyed, but man - I thought Blackthorne just nailed everything.

---

I also really liked Roy standing up to Ollie. I appreciate how there's still growing pains in their group and I like that Roy's starting to (seemingly) mature and begin to come into his own.

That's Blackthorne all over though. He's one hell of an actor. And also one of two people I actually remember from Dumb and Dumber To, because he was a) actually funny, and b) using his real accent. He's so delightfully British. The other thing I remember is Bill Murray as a meth cook.


Using Routh for anything but the big S is a missed opportunity imho. For some reason, Warner Bros seems scared of making a straight up Superman show (Smallville! Lois and Clark! Superboy!).


Rynjin wrote:

I didn't particularly like Sara either, but she was tolerable-to-okay when she wasn't going for the weird raspy voice she did sometimes and just spoke ike a normal human being. I also bought her much more as a fighter. Laurel, you have spent like a month in the gym learning boxing with your new studmuffin, that does not make you a g$* d@@n superhero. Go home.

Laurel is just...ugh. I hate everything about her. Her actress is terrible, the character has been poorly written from day 1, and try as they might to give her personality traits ("Ruthless lawyer! Badass-in-training! Recovering drug addict!") none of them seem to stick, and when they inevitably slide off we're still left with someone who has the personality of a piece of wet carboard with an actress seems to make it her sworn duty to take "bland" and turn it into "obnoxious".

That's why I didn't hate Tommy. Tommy was bland, but Tommy's actor knew that Tommy was just there as a plot device, and didn't try to overstretch his abilities.

It also helped that the writers didn't have a hard-on for him so every other subplot was about his problems, most of which he would have brought on himself.

My wife and I have almost started a "Do you hate Laurel too?" group on fb. With you on your views.

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There is a group on facebook. But it has 25 members.

Routh was a terrible Supes.


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Routh was a good Supes, in a terrible movie. Which is still more watchable than the Quest for Peace, and that had the best Superman on the screen ever.

This episode has finally started changing my opinion about Laurel. That ship has been torturously slow to turn around. I hope they can keep it up, keep it building. I'd like to like her, but she started pretty low on the list even in Season 1. Her scenes with her father, and with Felicity were good though.

On the whole though, I feel this show has lost a little bit of its steam, and it has Flash more than ready to run off with its thunder.

Spoiler:
I was a little pissed how easily the jerkwad assassin whipped Roy though. Did we really need him to get his ass kicked in front of Thea?

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