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Improvised Weapons and threatening


Rules Questions


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

This came up, and was looking to find an answer.

Can you threaten with an Improvised Weapon?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

With the various improvised weapon focused archetypes, I figured there would be an answer somewhere.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I truly hoped someone would have an answer.

How would this work out in PFS?

Star Voter 2013

The crb list the differences between improvised and normal weapons. Since it doesn't list a difference on the subject of threatening nothing is different in that aspect. Combined with the fact that when a weapon doesn't threaten it's called out the logical assumption is that yes if someone provoked when your adjacent with a mithril waffle iron you can brain them with it as an AoO.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Actually, there is a Mithral Skillet in Ultimate Equipment.

Shadow Lodge Dedicated Voter 2014

Yup. You also threaten with weapons you're not proficient with, which means that a caster with a bare hand and a shield still threatens. Your odds of actually hitting are technically irrelevant.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, there are many ways to have no penalties when using improvised weapons.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I just realized, there really is a Mithral Waffle Iron.

Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

An "improvised" weapon is still a weapon. It's effectively a subset of all the possible weapons.

A caster with a bare hand typically does not threaten.

@BigNorseWolf:

Quote:
Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity.

Additionally, Improved Unarmed Strike mentions that without the feat your unarmed strikes do not count as armed.

Shadow Lodge Dedicated Voter 2014

LoreKeeper wrote:

An "improvised" weapon is still a weapon. It's effectively a subset of all the possible weapons.

A caster with a bare hand typically does not threaten.

@BigNorseWolf:

Quote:
Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity.

Additionally, Improved Unarmed Strike mentions that without the feat your unarmed strikes do not count as armed.

... which means that a caster with a bare hand and a shield

The shield is a martial bashing weapon, whether or not you're proficient with it.

Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yes, that is why I clarified the bare hand bit and excluded the shield from my discussion. Your original statement could be misinforming to the uninformed reader.


Yes you can:

convo with JJ wrote:


On that note, one can threaten with an 'improvised melee weapon' right? Only unarmed attacks don't threaten?

Yes, you can make attacks of opportunity with improvised weapons.

Source.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, JJ is not a developer, but I respect his opinion.

I see nothing to suggest that you do not threaten, but I had to be sure.

Have some Improvised Weapon focused PC ideas in the works, and wanted to have all my ducks in a row.

Star Voter 2013

Ducks make horrible improvised weapons. Use something with more heft like turkeys.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Mithral ducks work.

Shadow Lodge Dedicated Voter 2014

LoreKeeper wrote:

Yes, that is why I clarified the bare hand bit and excluded the shield from my discussion. Your original statement could be misinforming to the uninformed reader.

Pretty much any statement is going to be misinforming if you leave half of it out.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Can you use a Tower Shield as an improvised weapon?


i think at certain levels it comes down to GM calls...

PRD wrote:
You cannot bash with a tower shield, nor can you use your shield hand for anything else.

you can't bash with it, and just taking the imp. weapon penalties shouldn't change that, so to use it as an improvised weapon, it would have to be in some other manner, like holding as a surf board and shoving it towards enemies with the edge.

because of the line 'you cannot use the shield hand for anything else', i would say that it can't be used as an imp. weapon while it is equipped as a tower shield, you have to take it off completely, and find some way to wield it as an imp. weapon.

...if it's usable at all, that's not clear, and certainly one can't use ANY object as a weapon, even if that couch looks enticing. the idea of 'razor sharp chair leg' MIGHT suggest that a chair itself is not a good imp. weapon, but one of it's legs may be... since we're supposed to figure out imp. weapon damage by comparing to real weapons, it seems reasonable to say 'well, there is no weapon equivalent... sorry, this you can't wield this as an imp. weapon.

how to class imp. weapons damage-wise, damage-type wise, is all a GM call,
so how you must be wielding a given object, or if it's possible to wield, is just another GM call...

i would let you wield it with 2 Hands only, but it would do club damage...

The Exchange

Okay, how about a ranged bow person?

Someone rushes past him and either, a) gets stuck by the drawn arrow (improvised weapon) or b) gets bashed over the head with the bow/club (improvised weapon)?

Star Voter 2013

An arrow can be used in melee at a -4 doing dagger damage

The Exchange

Cool :)

Here was me all this time thinking that I didn't threaten with my bow :)


a bow is much flimsier than a club, so i don't think it can be an effective imp. weapon.
there is certain specialty bows that have blades on them, etc, to function effectively as a melee weapon.
but yeah, arrows can work :-)


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Actually an arrow is a good improvised weapon.

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