Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

RPG Superstar 2015

zax Monk


Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew


3 people marked this as a favorite.

what i like about Dabbler's Mystic Monk is the elegance of his 3-into-2 Flurry tables, allowing movement plus multiple strikes at later levels, the implementation of Enhanced Strike and Weapon Training to bring the class up to melee speed, the adoption of hardness penetration via Shattering Strike, and the Mystic Powers as a way to nest old monk features to allow customization. overall this looks to be a very fun, flexible, backwards compatible, viable improvement.

what i like about master arminas' Martial Mytic Monk is his Living Weapon concept, his Rapid Strikes concept, his version of Catfall, and, as above, the implementation of scaling enhancement bonuses and Monastic Weapons Training.

what i dislike about both of them, as well as the Core Monk, is the clutter that is their 20-level progression tables. it almost looks arbitrary how the features are spread over the levels - quite a contrast to say the Rogue or the Ninja.

so, here is my attempt to clean up the tables while preserving the ideas that these gentlemen (?) bring forward. some is lost in the translation, such as simple backwards compatibility with monk archetypes, but my goal was to resist the urge to slap on some of the more 'quintessential' class features and instead focus on getting the monk up to speed as a mobile martial class, and allow that chassis to be customizable with Monk Secrets (which i will explain later)

Mobile Martial Mystic Monk (aka M4)

Spoiler:

Monk

1, +0, Monk Weapons, Open Hand Combat, Evasion, Bonus Feat
2, +1, Ki Pool, Monk Secret, Bonus Feat
3, +2, Ki Enhancement +1 (Hardness 5, Stun)
4, +3, Monk Secret, Ki Sense +1
5, +3/+0, Weapon Training +1
6, +4/+1, Monk Secret, Bonus Feat
7, +5/+2, Ki Enhancement +2 (Hardness 10, Fatigue)
8, +6/+3, Monk Secret, Ki Sense +2
9, +6/+3/+0, Improved Evasion, Weapon Training +2
10, +7/+4/+1, Advanced Monk Secret, Bonus Feat
11, +8/+5/+2, Ki Enhancement +3 (Hardness 15, Sicken)
12, +9/+6/+3, Advanced Monk Secret, Ki Sense +3
13, +9/+6/+3/+0, Weapon Training +3
14, +10/+7/+4/+1, Advanced Monk Secret, Bonus Feat
15, +11/+8/+5/+2, Ki Enhancement +4 (Hardness 20, Blind/Deaf)
16, +12/+9/+6/+3, Advanced Monk Secret, Ki Sense +4
17, +12/+9/+6/+3/+0, Weapon Training +4
18, +13/+10/+7/+4/+1, Advanced Monk Secret, Bonus Feat
19, +14/+11/+8/+5/+2, Ki Enhancement +5 (any Hardness, Paralyze)
20, +15/+12/+9/+6/+3, Advanced Monk Secret, Ki Sense +5

Skills
-6
-also i would suggest something similar to Dabbler's World Wise here to differentiate monasteries/monks

Monk Weapons*
-may fight as if under Two-Weapon Fighting (TWF) feat
-use the standard 3/4 BAB

Open Hand Combat*
-Improved Unarmed Strike 1d8 (1d6 small, 1d10 large)
-considered a monk weapon (but TWF-incompatible)
-whole body considered to be a single weapon
-notice the BAB iterative 'reset' of 3/0 instead of 6/1
-Move Action before or after Full Attack
-Increased Move +5 per 2 LV (min +5)
-WIS bonus to AC

Bonus Feat
-at 1/2/6/10/14/18
-allows monk-ish feats to be selected w/out ability score pre-reqs

Ki Pool
-1 pt for extra attack highest bonus
-1 pt for +20 speed 1 round
-1 pt for +4 to dodge 1 round
-all "Ki" features function at Ki 1+

Ki Enhancement
-at 3/7/11/15/19
-this is an enhancement bonus to attack and damage unarmed
-Stunning Fist will be tucked in here as well

Ki Sense
-at 4/8/12/16/20
-this is a dodge bonus to AC
-i am considering making it more...

Monk Secrets
-at 2/4/6/8/10/12/14/16/18/20
-this is where the old monk features will be tucked
-they will be progressive, like Slow Fall, and/or, two-in-one, like "Purity of…"
-they will interact with Ki

Weapon Training
at 5/9/13/17
-this is a bonus to attack and damage with monk weapons
-each instance, a new WP Proficiency may be grandfathered in here

*a note about Monk Weapons and Open Hand:
as they stem from different BAB structures, they cannot be combined, with a single exception.
you do not need to have free hands to use Open Hand, as you may kick/elbow/headbutt/etc, but if you use it all attacks must be made unarmed - not even with gauntlets/steeltoe boots or whatever - EXCEPT - if you use your 1-pt Ki bonus attack this may come from a weapon in hand, as it can be tacked anywhere into the 'routine' without disturbing the math.
same goes for the reverse. if you are using Monk Weapon(s), thus using the classic 3/4 BAB, you may not interrupt with an unarmed strike except in paying for the 1-pt Ki bonus attack.

indeed, my most ambitious proposals are:
1) to set 'flurry' (renamed 'Open Hand Combat' here) at iterative 3 (instead of 5), granting additional attacks at the 'dead BAB levels' 5/9/13/17. this to avoid starting out a new attack at a negative number (a consistent hiccup plaguing all previous monks) and/or using a 'virtual full BAB' system.
2) to allow monk to move and full attack at all levels. the wording should probably be something like "As a swift action during a round a monk is making an unarmed full attack, she may take an extra move action before or after the attack" - this way it cuts into the 'swift economy' and thus prevents simultaneous use of the Ki extra attack...

appreciate any feedback. work in progress. ironic formatting, i know. i am barely computer literate thank you.
cheers!


2.0

Mobile Martial Mystic Monk

Spoiler:

Mobile Martial Mystic Monk
1 +0 +0 Open Hand Combat, Monk Weapons, Monk Speed
2 +1 +1 Ki Pool, 1st Monk Secret, Martial Art Style Feat
3 +2 +2 Evasion, Ki Strike +1 (Magic, Hardness 5, DR 1/-, Stun)
4 +3 +3 2nd Monk Secret, Ki Sense +1
5 +3 +3/+0 Monastic Weapon Training +1
6 +4 +4/+1 3rd Monk Secret, Martial Art Style Feat
7 +5 +5/+2 Ki Strike +2 (Slashing/Piercing, Hardness 10, DR 2/-, Fatigue)
8 +6/+1 +6/+3 4th Monk Secret, Ki Sense +2
9 +6/+1 +6/+3/+0 Improved Evasion, Monastic Weapon Training +2
10 +7/+2 +7/+4/+1 Advanced Monk Secrets, 5th Monk Secret, Martial Art Style Feat
11 +8/+3 +8/+5/+2 Ki Strike +3 (Silver/Cold Iron, Hardness 15, DR 3/-, Sicken)
12 +9/+4 +9/+6/+3 6th Monk Secret, Ki Sense +3
13 +9/+4 +9/+6/+3/+0 Monastic Weapon Training +3
14 +10/+5 +10/+7/+4/+1 7th Monk Secret, Martial Art Style Feat
15 +11/+6/+1 +11/+8/+5/+2 Ki Strike +4 (Adamantine, Hardness 20, DR 4/-, Blind/Deaf)
16 +12/+7/+2 +12/+9/+6/+3 8th Monk Secret, Ki Sense +4
17 +12/+7/+2 +12/+9/+6/+3/+0 Monastic Weapon Training +4
18 +13/+8/+3 +13/+10/+7/+4/+1 9th Monk Secret, Martial Art Style Feat
19 +14/+9/+4 +14/+11/+8/+5/+2 Ki Strike +5 (Alignment, any Hardness, DR 5/-, Paralyze)
20 +15/+10/+5 +15/+12/+9/+6/+3 10th Monk Secret, Ki Sense +5

Skills
-4

-Acrobatics, Climb, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Religion), Perception, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Stealth, Swim.

Open Hand Combat*
-uses the advanced 3/4 BAB routine

-Improved Unarmed Strike feat
-unarmed damage 1d8 (1d6 small, 1d10 large)
-make unarmed attacks even if both hands are full

-whole body considered to be a single weapon

Monk Weapons*

-uses the standard 3/4 BAB routine
-may fight as if under Two-Weapon Fighting and Double Slice feats

Monk Speed
-active while unencumbered only
-WIS bonus to AC even when flat-footed, +1 at levels 4/8/12/16/20
-Fast Movement +5 feet per 2 monk levels (minimum +5)
-As a swift action before or after a full attack, take a free move action

Martial Art Style Feat

-gained at 2nd level, and every four levels thereafter

-allows certain feats to be selected w/out ability score pre-reqs

Ki Pool

-1 pt for extra attack highest bonus
-1 pt for +20 speed 1 round

-1 pt for +4 to dodge 1 round

-Ki Strike and Ki Sense function only while you retain at least 1 Ki

Ki Strike

+1 at 3rd level, +1 every four levels thereafter
-this is an enhancement bonus to attack and damage unarmed
Shattering Strike
-considered Magic weapon for bypassing DR; bypass Slashing/Piercing at 7th, Silver/Cold Iron at 11th, Adamantine at 15th, any Alignment at 19th
-ignores the first 5 points of hardness for any attack; 10 hardness at 7th, 15 hardness at 11th, 20 hardness at 15th, all hardness at 19th
-penetrates 1 point of DR of any kind; 2 DR at 7th, 3 DR at 11th, 4 DR at 15th, 5 DR at 19th
Stunning Fist
-usable once per opponent per day
-DC 10 + WIS + 1/2 monk level + enhancement bonus
-Stuns for 1 round or Fatigues opponent (choose before rolling);may Sicken for 1 minute at 7th, Stagger for 1d6+1 rounds at 11th, Blind or Deafen permanently at 15th, Paralyze for 1d6+1 rounds at 19th

Ki Sense

+1 at 4th level, +1 every four levels thereafter
-this is an insight bonus to Perception and Initiative checks
-a monk who may act in a surprise round may take a full round of actions

Monk Secrets
Still Mind: +2 vs Enchantment; +4 at level ten
Maneuver Training: +1 to CMB per 2 monk levels
Slow Fall: reduce fall damage by 1d6 per monk level and always land on your feet; negate all fall damage at level twenty
High Jump: add level to all jump checks, always considered to have a running start; 1 Ki for +20 to jump checks
Purity of Body: immunity to all diseases; immunity to all poison at level ten
Wholeness of Body: standard action and 2 Ki to heal self equal to monk level; move action at level ten

Advanced Monk Secrets
Abundant Step: as move action, 2 Ki to Dimension Door
Diamond Soul: spell resistance equal to monk level +10; lower as immediate action, raises as swift action
Quivering Palm: delayed death blow attack once per day
Timeless as the Sun and Moon: speak with any living creature and cease aging
Empty Body: standard action and 3 Ki to assume ethereal state for 1 minute

Monastic Weapon Training

+1 at 5th level, +1 every four levels thereafter

-this is a bonus to attack and damage with unarmed strikes and monk weapons
-each time the bonus increases, select another weapon to hereafter be considered a monk weapon

*a note about Monk Weapons and Open Hand:
you may only use one routine on any given round, and must decide between Open Hand and Monk Weapons attacks.
you do not need to have free hands to use Open Hand, as you may kick/elbow/headbutt/etc, but if you use it all attacks must be made unarmed - EXCEPT - if you use your Ki Pool to gain a bonus attack, this attack may come from a Monk Weapon, and may interrupt the routine
the same goes for the reverse - if you are using the Monk Weapons routine, you may not interrupt with an unarmed strike except in paying for the 1-pt Ki bonus attack.

seeking feedback.

also, can someone tell me how to upload a doc and post a link?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Backward compatibility is the reason both Master Arminas' monk and my own were a bit of a mess - we were trying to get the whole thing to still work backwards with existing monks without too much mucking about.

First thoughts: Nice smooth rationalisation incorporates a lot of features. Like the fixed unarmed damage.

Issues:

One feature MA and I both incorporated was a much better way of bypassing DR. I had it as a ki-ability, usable from 4th level. Remember, enhancement bonus alone will bypass certain DR, but by the time the monk gets past DR/alignment with +5 everyone else has been doing it for several levels.

The 3-step iteration was in 3.0 ...it was abandoned for 3.5. They did that for a reason...it sucked. Badly. Sure, it looks pretty, but it's awful. That's the reason I dumped it from my monk design after considering it carefully. The first attacks are the most important ones, always.


hey,
check out my Monk 3.0
cheers

Spoiler:
zax Monk

Class Features

1 Open Hand Combat, Monastery Weapons Training +1, Evasion
2 Ki Pool, Monk Secret, Martial Arts Style Feat
3 Ki Strike +1, Monk Speed +10
4 Monk Secret
5 Monastery Weapons Training +2
6 Monk Secret, Martial Arts Style Feat, Monk Speed +20
7 Ki Strike +2
8 Improved Evasion, Monk Secret
9 Monastery Weapons Training +3, Monk Speed +30
10 Advanced Secrets, Monk Secret, Martial Arts Style Feat
11 Ki Strike +3
12 Monk Secret, Monk Speed +40
13 Monastery Weapons Training +4
14 Monk Secret, Martial Arts Style Feat
15 Ki Strike +4, Monk Speed +50
16 Monk Secret
17 Monastery Weapons Training +5
18 Monk Secret, Martial Arts Style Feat, Monk Speed +60
19 Ki Strike +5
20 Monk Secret, Ki Enlightenment

Open Hand Combat BAB

1 +0/+0
2 +1/+1
3 +2/+2
4 +3/+3
5 +3/+3/+0
6 +4/+4/+1
7 +5/+5/+2
8 +6/+6/+3
9 +6/+6/+3/+3
10 +7/+7/+4/+4
11 +8/+8/+5/+5
12 +9/+9/+6/+6
13 +9/+9/+6/+6/+3
14 +10/+10/+7/+7/+4
15 +11/+11/+8/+8/+5
16 +12/+12/+9/+9/+6
17 +12/+12/+9/+9/+6/+6
18 +13/+13/+10/+10/+7/+7
19 +14/+14/+11/+11/+8/+8
20 +15/+15/+12/+12/+9/+9

Open Hand Combat BAB adjusted w/ Monastic Weapons Training and Ki Strike
(for master arminas and Dabbler)

1 +1/+1
2 +2/+2
3 +4/+4
4 +5/+5
5 +6/+6/+3
6 +7/+7/+4
7 +9/+9/+6
8 +10/+10/+7
9 +11/+11/+8/+8
10 +12/+12/+9/+9
11 +14/+14/+11/+11
12 +15/+15/+12/+12
13 +16/+16/+13/+13/+10
14 +17/+17/+14/+14/+11
15 +19/+19/+16/+16/+13
16 +20/+20/+17/+17/+14
17 +21/+21/+18/+18/+15/+15
18 +22/+22/+19/+19/+16/+16
19 +24/+24/+21/+21/+18/+18
20 +25/+25/+22/+22/+19/+19

Class Features:

Note:
Combat Routine - a monk must choose between using his Open Hand Combat Routine or using a standard routine. If he uses the former routine, he may only make unarmed attacks and may not attack with any other weapons. If he uses the latter routine, he may use weapons and/or unarmed attacks, but uses the standard 3/4 BAB chart to calculate his to-hit bonuses. There is a single exception to this explained under the Ki Pool section, in which the 1-pt additional Ki attack can be made with a weapon on top of a regular Open Hand routine.

Open Hand Combat
The monk is a master of martial arts. He fights as with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, and inflicts 1d8 damage (as a medium creature) plus his full Strength modifier on a successful hit. He may fight unarmed even if both of his hands are full without difficulty, striking with kicks, knees, elbows, and headbutts, as appropriate. As such, there is no such thing as an 'off-hand' attack using this routine.
Further, when making an unarmed combat maneuver, the monk adds both his Strength bonus and hid Dexterity bonus to his CMB. These bonuses do not stack with the Agile Maneuvers feat.
Lastly, while using Open Hand Combat and making a full attack, so long as he remains unarmored, a monk may use the advanced 3/4 BAB progression table to calculate iterative attacks. He gains his first iterative attack at full bonus at 1st level, his second iterative attack at -3 at 5th level, his third iterative attack at -3 at 9th level, his fourth iterative attack at -6 at 13th level, and his fifth and final iterative attack at -6 at 17th level. See the "Open Hand Combat BAB" above for quick reference when making an unarmed and unarmored full attack.

Monastic Weapons Training
During their stay at monasteries, monks train long hours using a mix of martial arts and 'monk' weapons.
When making unarmed attacks, or when attacking using these special monk weapons, he may add a +1 competence bonus to his attack rolls. This bonus increases to +2 at 5th level, +3 at 9th level, +4 at 13th level, and +5 at 17th level.
Furthermore, when using monk weapons, a monk fights with perfect ambidexterity. When he is making a full attack, he may attack as with the Two-Weapon Fighting and Double Slice feats, but without taking the -2 penalty to all attacks for doing so. He thus uses his full attack and damage bonus whether fighting with a single monk weapon, a double monk weapon, or two monk weapons.

Ki Pool
At 2nd level, a monk begins to unlock his spiritual potential. He gains a Ki Pool with a number of points equal to half his monk level plus his Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). These points replenish after 4 hours of meditation or 8 hours of rest. The benefits are as follows:

1) So long as a monk retains at least 1 point in his Ki Pool, he adds his Wisdom bonus to his Armor Class. This defense remains active even if the monk is caught flat-footed. This bonus raises by +1 at 4th level, and again every 4 monk levels, to a maximum of +5 at level 20. Further, whenever the monk expends 1 or more points from his Ki Pool, he automatically gains a +4 dodge bonus to his AC for 1 round.

2) A monk may expend 1 point as a swift action to gain an extra attack at his full bonus. This attack may be activated at any time during his attack routine and may be used to mix a single weapon attack into an otherwise full Open Hand Combat routine. Alternatively, he may activate this ability as an immediate action to make an additional attack of opportunity against a foe who provokes him. Though this usage may be used to exceed his normal number of opportunity attacks per round, it may not be used to gain multiple attacks for a single provocation.

3) A monk may expend 1 point as a swift action to gain an extra move action. In this way he may move his full speed and make a full attack in a single round. Alternatively, he may activate this ability as an immediate action to instead make a 5-foot step. If he interrupts an opponent who was about to attack him, the opponent must either choose another legal target, or else must use a move action or take a 5-foot step to close with the monk once again.

Monk Secrets
Beginning at level 2, and every even level thereafter, the monk unlocks a spiritual secret of life. Choose one ability from the list below. At 10th level, he may instead select an ability from the list of Advanced Monk Secrets.

Still Mind:
The monk gains a +2 to save vs Enchantment; this increases +4 at level 10. Further, his Ki Pool expands by a 1 point.
Maneuver Training:
The monk gains a bonus to CMB equal to half his monk level.
Slow Fall:
So long as the monk retains 1 Ki, he always land on his feet. He reduces fall damage by 1d6 for every two monk levels; if he is falling within reach of a wall he may instead fall as if under a Feather Fall spell for 1 round every two monk levels - these graceful falling modes may be combined for a complicated fall so long as the number of dice negated and the number of rounds slow falling does not exceed half his monk level. At level 20, he may Slow Fall any distance.
High Jump:
So long as he has at least 1 Ki, the monk adds his level to all jump checks and is always considered to have a running start; he may expend 1 Ki to gain a +20 bonus to a single jump check.
Purity of Body:
So long as he has at least 1 Ki, the monk has immunity to all diseases; this expands to immunity to all poison at level 10. Further, his Ki Pool expands by a 1 point.
Wholeness of Body:
A monk may expend 1 Ki as a swift action and 1 Ki to heal himself a number of Hit Points equal to his Wisdom modifier times his monk level.
Martial Weapon Kata:
The monk may choose a single martial weapon to hereafter treat as a 'monk' weapon.

Advanced Monk Secrets
Abundant Step:
As a move action, a monk may expend 1 Ki to teleport as the spell Dimension Door.
Diamond Soul:
While he retains 1 Ki, the monk gains Spell Resistance equal to monk level +10; he lower this resistance as an immediate action, and may raise it once again as a free action.
Tongue as the Sun and Moon:
The monk may speak with any living creature. Further, his Ki Pool expands by a 2 points.
Timeless Body:
The monk ceases to physically age but still dies when his time is up. Further, his Ki Pool expands by a 2 points.
Empty Body:
A monk may expend 1 Ki as a standard action to assume an ethereal state for 1 minute as the spell Ethereal Jaunt.
Exotic Weapon Kata:
The monk may choose a single exotic weapon to hereafter treat as a 'monk' weapon.

Martial Arts Style Feats
At 2nd level, and every four levels thereafter, the monk may gain a bonus Combat Feat without needing to meet ability score requirements, nor requirements that include Power Attack, Combat Expertise, or Dodge.

Ki Strike
At 3rd level, so long as the monk retains 1 Ki, his unarmed attacks are treated as magic, and gains a +1 enhancement bonus (this applies both to attack and to damage).
He also gains the Stunning Fist feat, and he may choose to instead fatigue rather than stun his foe. His enhancement bonus is further added to the DC to resist his Stunning Fist attack.
Lastly, he may bypass the first 5 points typed DR (such as DR 5/bludgeoning) or hardness, or the first 1 point of any untyped DR (such as DR 2/-).
At 7th level, his enhancement bonus increases to +2, his Stunning Fist may instead sicken his foe for 1 minute or stagger his foe for 1d6+1 rounds, and he may bypass 10 points of typed DR or hardness or 2 points of untyped DR.
At 11th level, his enhancement bonus increases to +3 (allowing him to completely bypass Cold Iron and Silver DR), his Stunning Fist may instead permanently blind or deafen his foe, and he may bypass 15 points of typed DR or hardness or 3 points of untyped DR.
At 15th level, his enhancement bonus increases to +4 (allowing him to completely bypass DR as if his strike were adamantium), his Stunning Fist may instead be used as a Quivering Palm attack, and he may bypass 20 points of typed DR or hardness or 4 points of untyped DR.
At 19th level, his enhancement bonus increases to +5 (allowing him to completely bypass all alignment-based DR), his Stunning Fist may instead be paralyze or kill his target, and he may bypass 25 points of typed DR or hardness or 5 points of untyped DR.

Monk Speed
At 3rd level, while unarmored, the monk gains a +10 bonus to his speed. This bonus increases by +10 for every three levels thereafter, to a maximum of +60 at level 18. It stacks with any other bonus to speed, such as that gained by a Haste spell.

Ki Enlightenment
At 20th level, the monk's Ki Pool expands to be equal to his level plus his Wisdom modifier. Further, while he retains 1 point of Ki, he gains the ability to take any number or swift or immediate actions during a combat round. He also gains DR 10/Lawful. And lastly, so long as he wants, he may suppress his powerful aura, and instead choose to register as a non-magical 1st level Commoner of his ordinary alignment - any Divination spell of less than 9th level automatically fails.


i am looking for a way out of the 3-point iterative reset and back into the 5-point iterative reset, without regressing into negative numbers, without digressing into uneven distribution, without progressing into unfair advantage.

can my Open Hand Combat BAB be such rendered thus:

Spoiler:

Open Hand Combat BAB
1 +0/+0
2 +1/+1
3 +2/+2
4 +3/+3
5 +3/+3/+3
6 +4/+4/+4
7 +5/+5/+5
8 +6/+6/+6
9 +6/+6/+6/+1
10 +7/+7/+7/+2
11 +8/+8/+8/+3
12 +9/+9/+9/+4
13 +9/+9/+9/+4/+4
14 +10/+10/+10/+5/+5
15 +11/+11/+11/+6/+6
16 +12/+12/+12/+7/+7
17 +12/+12/+12/+7/+7/+7
18 +13/+13/+13/+8/+8/+8
19 +14/+14/+14/+9/+9/+9
20 +15/+15/+15/+10/+10/+10

(as written)
1st prime ("-0") iterative at level one
2nd prime ("-0") iterative at level five
1st secondary ("-5") iterative at level nine
2nd secondary ("-5") iterative at level thirteen
3rd secondary ("-5") iterative at level seventeen

to counterbalance this, ought Monastic Weapons Training (given at levels one, five, nine, thirteen, and seventeen also) instead only apply to monk weapons and not also to unarmed strike?

this would leave a monk who had the mechanical viability incentive to pursue weapons for earlier levels only to eschew them at later levels - kind of a throwback to 1E. the question is, can this approach be called mechanical viability at all?...

lastly,
i meant to include one extra sentence under High Jump

Spoiler:

High Jump:
So long as he has at least 1 Ki, the monk adds his level to all jump checks and is always considered to have a running start; he may expend 1 Ki to gain a +20 bonus to a single jump check. If a jump check ends in the square of an opponent and is made as part of a charge, any unarmed attack made may instead add 1-1/2 times the monk's Strength modifier to damage.


Monk

version 4.0

Spoiler:

For the truly exemplary, martial skill transcends the battlefield—it is a lifestyle, a doctrine, a state of mind. These warrior-artists search out methods of battle beyond swords and shields, finding weapons within themselves just as capable of crippling or killing as any blade. These monks (so called since they adhere to ancient philosophies and strict martial disciplines) elevate their bodies to become weapons of war, from battle-minded ascetics to self-taught brawlers. Monks tread the path of discipline, and those with the will to endure that path discover within themselves not what they are, but what they are meant to be.

Role:
Monks excel at overcoming even the most daunting perils, striking where it's least expected, and taking advantage of enemy vulnerabilities. Fleet of foot and skilled in combat, monks can navigate any battlefield with ease, aiding allies wherever they are needed most.

Alignment: Any Lawful.

Hit Die: d8.

Saving Throws: Fortitude, Reflex, Will, all strong.

Class Skills:
The monk's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (History) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Stealth (Dex), and Swim (Str).

Skill Ranks per Level: 4


Table: Monk

1... Open Hand Combat, Stunning Fist, Monastery Weapons Training +1
2... Ki Pool, Monk Secret, Martial Arts Style Feat
3... Ki Strike +1, Fast Movement
4... Monk Secret, Evasion
5... Monastery Weapons Training +2
6... Monk Secret, Martial Arts Style Feat
7... Ki Strike +2
8... Monk Secret, Improved Evasion
9... Monastery Weapons Training +3
10.. Advanced Secrets, Monk Secret, Martial Arts Style Feat
11.. Ki Strike +3
12.. Monk Secret
13.. Monastery Weapons Training +4
14.. Monk Secret, Martial Arts Style Feat
15.. Ki Strike +4
16.. Monk Secret
17.. Monastery Weapons Training +5
18.. Monk Secret, Martial Arts Style Feat
19.. Ki Strike +5
20.. Monk Secret, Ki Enlightenment

Class Features:

Spoiler:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
Monks are proficient with the club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shortspear, short sword, shuriken, siangham, sling, and spear.

Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields.

When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement and open hand combat abilities.

Open Hand Combat
The monk is a master of martial arts. He fights as with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, and inflicts 1d8 damage (as a medium creature) plus his full Strength modifier on a successful hit. Fighting this way he uses punches, kicks, knees, elbows, and headbutts to subdue his foes. As such, there is no such thing as an 'off-hand' attack using this routine - he always adds his full Strength bonus to damage.
Further, when making an unarmed combat maneuver, the monk adds both his Strength bonus and his Dexterity bonus to his CMB. These bonuses do not stack with the Agile Maneuvers feat.
Lastly, while using Open Hand Combat and making a full attack, so long as he remains unarmored, a monk may use the advanced 3/4 BAB progression table (see below) to calculate his iterative attacks. He gains his first primary iterative attack at full bonus at 1st level, his second primary iterative attack at 5th level, his first secondary iterative attack (at -5) at 9th level, his second secondary iterative attack (at -5) at 13th level, and a final, tertiary iterative attack (at -10) at 17th level.
If the monk is multi-classed, calculate his BAB and iterative attacks separately when he is using his Open Hand Combat ability. For example, a 5th/6th level monk/fighter gains +3/+3/+3 for his monk levels and +6/+1 for his fighter levels - his Open Hand BAB would thus be +9/+9/+9/+4.

Table: Open Hand Combat BAB

1... +0/+0
2... +1/+1
3... +2/+2
4... +3/+3
5... +3/+3/+3
6... +4/+4/+4
7... +5/+5/+5
8... +6/+6/+6
9... +6/+6/+6/+1
10.. +7/+7/+7/+2
11.. +8/+8/+8/+3
12.. +9/+9/+9/+4
13.. +9/+9/+9/+4/+4
14.. +10/+10/+10/+5/+5
15.. +11/+11/+11/+6/+6
16.. +12/+12/+12/+7/+7
17.. +12/+12/+12/+7/+7/+2
18.. +13/+13/+13/+8/+8/+3
19.. +14/+14/+14/+9/+9/+4
20.. +15/+15/+15/+10/+10/+5

Stunning Fist:
At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This condition replaces stunning the target for 1 round, and a successful saving throw still negates the effect. At 4th level, he can choose to make the target fatigued. At 8th level, he can make the target sickened for 1 minute. At 12th level, he can make the target staggered for 1d6+1 rounds. At 16th level, he can permanently blind or deafen the target. At 20th level, he can paralyze the target for 1d6+1 rounds. The monk must choose which condition will apply before the attack roll is made. These effects do not stack with themselves (a creature sickened by Stunning Fist cannot become nauseated if hit by Stunning Fist again), but additional hits do increase the duration.

Monastery Weapons Training:
During their stay at monasteries, monks train long hours using a mix of martial arts and 'monk' weapons.
When making unarmed attacks, or when attacking using these special monk weapons, he may add a +1 competence bonus to his attack rolls. This bonus increases to +2 at 5th level, +3 at 9th level, +4 at 13th level, and +5 at 17th level.
Furthermore, when using monk weapons, a monk fights with perfect ambidexterity. When he is making a full attack, he may attack as with the Two-Weapon Fighting and Double Slice feats, but without taking the -2 penalty to all attacks for doing so. He thus uses his full attack and damage bonus whether fighting with a single monk weapon, a double monk weapon, or two monk weapons.

Ki Pool:
At 2nd level, a monk begins to unlock his spiritual potential. He gains a Ki Pool with a number of points equal to half his monk level plus his Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). These points replenish after 8 hours of meditation or rest. The benefits are as follows:

1) So long as a monk retains at least 1 point in his Ki Pool, he adds his Wisdom bonus to his Armor Class. This defense remains active even if the monk is caught flat-footed. This bonus raises by +1 at 4th level, and again every 4 monk levels, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level. Further, whenever the monk expends 1 or more points from his Ki Pool to activate an ability, he automatically gains a +4 dodge bonus to his AC for 1 round.

2) A monk may expend 1 point as a swift action to gain an extra attack at his full bonus. This attack may be activated at any time during his attack routine and may be used to mix a single weapon attack into an otherwise full Open Hand Combat routine. Alternatively, he may activate this ability as an immediate action to make an additional attack of opportunity against a foe who provokes him. Though this usage may be used to exceed his normal number of opportunity attacks per round, it may not be used to gain multiple attacks for a single provocation.

3) A monk may expend 1 point as a swift action to gain an extra move action. In this way he may move his full speed and make a full attack in a single round, or, he may make a double move as part of a charge. Alternatively, he may activate this ability as an immediate action to instead make a 5-foot step. If he interrupts an opponent who was about to attack him, the opponent must either choose another legal target, or else must use a move action or take a 5-foot step to close with the monk once again.

Monk Secrets:
Beginning at level 2, and every even level thereafter, the monk unlocks a spiritual secret of life. Choose one ability from the list below. At 10th level, he may instead select an ability from the list of Advanced Monk Secrets.

Monk Secrets:
Still Mind:
The monk gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells and effects; at 10th level, this bonus expands to +4. Further, the monk's daily Ki pool expands by 1 point.
Maneuver Training:
The monk is considered to be one size larger for the purposes of performing or defending against a combat maneuver (The special size modifier for a creature's Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense are as follows: Fine –8, Diminutive –4, Tiny –2, Small –1, Medium +0, Large +1, Huge +2, Gargantuan +4, Colossal +8). Further, he gains an additional +1 to CMB and CMD for each of the following feats he has: Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, Improved Overrun, Improved Sunder, Improved Trip, Greater Bull Rush, Greater Disarm, Greater Grapple, Greater Overrun, Greater Sunder, and Greater Trip.
Slow Fall:
The monk always lands on his feet. He reduces fall damage by 1d6 for every two monk levels; if he is falling within reach of a wall he may instead fall as if under a Feather Fall spell for 1 round every two monk levels - these graceful falling modes may be combined for a complicated fall so long as the number of dice negated plus the number of rounds feather falling does not exceed half his monk level. At level 20, he may Slow Fall any distance.
High Jump:
The monk adds his level to all Acrobatics checks made to jump, both for vertical jumps and horizontal jumps. In addition, he always counts as having a running start when making jump checks using Acrobatics. By spending 1 point from his Ki pool as a swift action, a monk gains a +20 bonus on Acrobatics checks made to jump for 1 round. The monk may also charge through difficult terrain by succeeding at a jump check. Typically, this raises the DC by +5, as the jump must clear both vertical and horizontal space. If the monk's jump check ends in the square of an opponent and is made as part of a charge, any unarmed attack made this round instead adds 1-1/2 times the monk's Strength modifier to damage.
Purity of Body:
The monk gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases; at 10th level, this expands to immunity to poisons of all kinds. Further, the monk's daily Ki pool expands by 1 point.
Wholeness of Body:
The monk can heal his own wounds as a swift action. He can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to his monk level times his Wisdom modifier by using 2 points from his Ki pool. Successive uses of this ability in the same day require +1 cumulative Ki points.
Martial Weapon Kata:
The monk may choose a single martial weapon with the double, finesse, light, or ranged descriptor to hereafter treat as a 'monk' weapon.

Advanced Monk Secrets
Abundant Step:
The monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell Dimension Door. Using this ability is a move action that consumes 2 points from his Ki pool. His caster level for this effect is equal to his monk level. He cannot take other creatures with him when he uses this ability.
Diamond Soul:
The monk gains spell resistance equal to his current monk level + 10. In order to affect the monk with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the monk's spell resistance.
Quivering Palm:
The monk can set up vibrations within the body of another creature that can thereafter be fatal if the monk so desires. He can use this quivering palm attack once per day, and he must announce his intent before making his attack roll. Creatures immune to critical hits cannot be affected. Otherwise, if the monk strikes successfully and the target takes damage from the blow, the quivering palm attack succeeds. Thereafter, the monk can try to slay the victim at any later time, as long as the attempt is made within a number of days equal to his monk level. To make such an attempt, the monk merely wills the target to die (a free action), and unless the target makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the monk's level + the monk's Wis modifier), it dies. If the saving throw is successful, the target is no longer in danger from that particular quivering palm attack, but it may still be affected by another one at a later time. A monk can have no more than 1 quivering palm in effect at one time. If a monk uses quivering palm while another is still in effect, the previous effect is negated. The monk must be at least 15th level to select this advanced monk secret.
Timeless Body:
The monk no longer takes penalties to his ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that he has already taken, however, remain in place. Age bonuses still accrue, and the monk still dies of old age when his time is up. Further, his Ki Pool expands by a 2 points.
Tongue as the Sun and Moon:
The monk can speak with any living creature. Further, his Ki Pool expands by a 2 points.
Empty Body:
The monk gains the ability to assume an ethereal state for 1 minute as though using the spell Etherealness. Using this ability is a move action that consumes 3 points from his Ki pool. This ability only affects the monk and cannot be used to make other creatures ethereal.
Exotic Weapon Kata:
The monk may choose a single exotic weapon with the double, finesse, light, or ranged descriptor to hereafter treat as a 'monk' weapon.

Martial Arts Style Feats:
At 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, a monk may select a bonus feat. These feats must be taken from the following list: Catch Off-Guard, Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, Improved Overrun, Improved Sunder, Improved Trip, Mobility, Scorpion Style, and Throw Anything. At 6th level, the following feats are added to the list: Gorgon's Fist, Greater Bull Rush, Greater Disarm, Greater Grapple, Greater Overrun, Greater Sunder, Greater Trip, Lunge, Snatch Arrows, Spring Attack, and Vital Strike. At 10th level, the following feats are added to the list: Improved Critical, Medusa's Wrath, Strike Back, Whirlwind Attack, and Wind Stance. A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.

Ki Strike:
At 3rd level, so long as the monk retains 1 Ki, his unarmed attacks are treated as magic, and gains a +1 enhancement bonus (this applies both to attack and to damage). This enhancement bonus increases by +1 for every four monk levels, to a maximum of +5 at 19th level.
This enhancement bonus is further added to the DC to resist his Stunning Fist attacks.
Lastly, the monk's unarmed strikes become more potent. By spending 1 Ki point as a swift action, the monk bypasses 1 point of Damage Reduction or Hardness per monk level for a number of rounds equal to his monk level. If the Damage Reduction is typeless (DR 5/-) or has two components (DR 10/Piercing and Good), then the monk only overcomes 1 point for every two monk levels he possesses.

Fast Movement:
At 3rd level, a monk gains a +10 feet enhancement bonus to his land speed; this bonus increases again by 10 feet every three monk levels, to a maximum of +60 feet at 18th level. A monk in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.

Evasion:
At 4th level or higher, a monk can avoid damage from many area-effect attacks. If a monk makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a monk is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Improved Evasion:
At 8th level, a monk's evasion ability improves. He still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Ki Enlightenment:
At 20th level, the monk's Ki Pool expands to be equal to his level plus his Wisdom modifier. His Ki abilities that are swift actions become free actions. He may now substitute his Wisdom modifier for his Strength or Dexterity modifier when making an attack. He also gains DR 10/Lawful. And lastly, so long as he wants, he may suppress his powerful aura, and instead choose to register as a non-magical 1st level Commoner of his ordinary alignment - any Divination spell of less than 9th level automatically fails.

Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You're welcome to incorporate the alternate flurry mechanic.

My favorite bit in your remake are the "monk secrets". A couple of months ago I posted my own take on a (complete!) monk remake over here. It's rather different, with a completely different mechanic for monks but I like it nonetheless. You may be interested in looking through the "insights" (which is essentially my take on your "monk secrets").


yea,
what's great about 'secrets' or 'insights' is that it makes the class very homebrew-customizable. if you don't like the core abilities, you can ask your DM/players to use another book's/authors' or make your own.

for mine, as not all the core monk's abilites-turned-secrets seemed to have the same pull as to taking them, i sweetened the deal by throwing up +1 or +2 pool-Ki to certain ones. dunno if this swings them into the other direction or achieves the desired balance - creating a 'tough choice' (that's what i'm goin for)

for yours, i like your conception of Flurry actions - so that the monk is doing more than just attacking in a hurry. if your design wasn't meant (as it seems) to be a quick-core-monk-fix, i would recommend borrowing from Dabbler's monk the World Wise ability - this could lend more apt to the attempting move + two (standard) skill checks 'in a flurry'...

ps.
i will continue to evaluate your Alternate Flurry mechanic. but i am strongly leaning towards it atm. it's fricken genius.

pss.
tbh, i was looking for a better name than 'secrets' and dammit 'insights' does a better job imho of capturing the concept...

Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you do replace the classic flurry with the alternative, keep in mind that the alternate flurry represents a roughly 35% increase in DPR for the monk - because of that you need to reconsider the balance of certain proposed class abilities. Specifically Ki Strike as written would probably be too strong.

In one of my proposed changes to monks I've adapted the Ki Pool class feature as follows:

Quote:

Ki Pool (Su): all the usual, and:

As long as he has at least 1 point in his ki pool, he can make a ki strike. At 4th level, ki strike allows his unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and grants a +1 enhancement bonus to attacks with unarmed strikes and monk weapons. Ki strike improves with the character’s monk level. At 10th level, his unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and the enhancement bonus to attacks increases to +2. At 16th level, his unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and bypassing hardness and the enhancement bonus to attacks increases to +3.

The net effect at level 16 is a +3 enhancement (to attacks); this grants the ability to bypass silver and cold-iron, then the monk innately also is granted magic, lawful and adamantine bypassing. Since the monk doesn't need to get a +1 amulet (since he already gets an enhancement bonus to attacks at least) he can invest in a holy amulet; and if he takes certain feats, such as the Boar Style feat chain, he can effectively (at level 16) bypass the following DR: piercing, slashing, bludgeoning, silver, cold-iron, adamantine, magic, lawful, good.


i noticed the increase in damage per round (DPR).

and your proposal (+1 at 4/10/16) works great especially because it jives as a super easy topical fix to the core monk.

but i am willing to trade off a little 'backwards compatibility' in exchange for other viability factors. and so, i agree with others on this forum that the monk needs a solid DR trick with and without expending Ki - and further that he needs to receive +5 enhancement by the time he is at level 20 - though not necessarily at the rate that makes him perfectly on par with the going 'wealth by level' (WBL) rate of the standardized magic item market (which might look like +1 at 4/7/10/13/16). after all, he gets these enhancements for free and they cannot be stolen once acquired.

(also, my class table has 'feature space' at odd levels)

so, as i wanted both of these things, the only factor left to reel him in by was on his base unarmed damage. (which, might have a 1E 'side effect'!)

i'd therefore like to see the DPR interaction of Alternate Flurry, Ki Strike as proposed on this thread (+1 at 3/7/11/15/19), and unarmed damage as follows: 1d4 at 1st, 1d6 at 5th, 1d8 at 9th, 1d10 at 13th, 1d12 at 17th.

if i had to guess, it might still be barely too high. in which case i would consider a static d4 or d6 for unarmed damage. if this doesn't put the monk's DPR within the desired specs - that is, nearly on par with a Ranger fighting an unfavorite, a Paladin fighting a neutral, or a calm Barbarian, but still shy a Fighter by about a quarter or so - then i will go back to the drawing board...

Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Assuming what level, gear and feats?

To put it on the same line as the example "Unarmed, non-TWF-build alternative flurry; emphasizing DPR" on the Alternate Flurry thread, the result would be:

Change +1 amulet to flaming amulet (or similar 1d6 enhancement). Feats and gear otherwise unaffected. Net result:

Attack: +20/+15
10 bab + 7 str + 1 feat + 2 enhance
Damage: 20
1d8 + 1d6 + 7 str + 3 dragon + 2 enhance

DPR vs AC 24: 62.6
DPR vs AC 24: 83.5 (with ki)

(Compare against the original 52 and 70 respectively.)

I'd say that is a little too good, especially as at level 11 the step up from the original will be even more prominent due to the +3 enhancement kicking in.


when you say "(with ki)" does that mean burning 1 Ki to gain an extra attack? if so, it is worth considering swapping out that ability for the 1 Ki 'speed up' of the alternative flurry. i realize this may be considered killing a sacred cow, but if in the name of balancing the class it comes to deciding to keep it or not, especially if the replacing ability thematically represents the concept, i wouldn't hesitate for too long.

in fact, comparing the two abilities further, the former increases the overall full-round DPR, while the other lowers the full-round DPR in exchange for advancing the mobile DPR. if this therefore works to the spec, it might be a viability incentive for the mobile warrior strategy. isn't this not what the monk ought to be?...

overall, i think the Ki pool, upon receiving it at Xth level (i am fond of level 2), should have about 3 options up front, more at later levels. so the question to me is, which Ki options are worth keeping?

Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

"(with ki)" does indeed refer to the extra ki attack.

I think all ki options are worth keeping. As they are options rather than free constant effects. Promoting the monk as a mobile fighter is good - but it shouldn't be done in exclusion. In early levels the option for an extra attack is important to make the alternative flurry a good option; and at later levels it doesn't really matter as haste should be ubiquitous.


Lorekeeper,
if your numbers give you "50 or 70", without and with ki bonus attack respectively, but a different arrangement of class features allowed you to similarly get "60 or 80", wouldn't it be a smart option to remove the "80" once it leaves the spec? especially if you replaced it with an ability that gave you better thematic (think mobile) numbers?

i would think that in such a case such an ability would no longer serve it's intended purpose. a concern of mine is being overwhelmed by ki choices. i would veer towards less-as-more - especially if all options on the table were solid options.

anyway, now to attempt my own math to verify your DPR claims. i may need forum help here if anybody is watching!

DPR formula

Spoiler:

The damage formula is h(d+s)+tchd.

h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage
d = Damage per hit. Average damage is assumed.
s = Precision damage per hit (or other damage that isn't multiplied on a crit). Average damage is again assumed.
t = Chance to roll a critical threat, expressed as a percentage.
c = Critical hit bonus damage. x2 = 1, x3 = 2, x4 = 3.

5 Twin Brother Monks:

at level 1, 5, 10, 15, and 20, i would like to calculate the DPR of the monks Chen, Merle, Po, Ollie, and Baku.

all of them have the same stat array and build. their differences lie in their flurry mechanics, unarmed damage dice, and enhancement bonuses.

Spoiler:

1st Level - vs AC 17:

WIS 15+2 = 17
STR 14
DEX 13
CON 12
INT 10
CHA 8
Weapon Focus (Unarmed)

5th Level - vs AC 20:
WIS 18
STR 16 (+2 belt)

10th Level - vs AC 24:
STR 18 (+4 belt)
DEX 14
Improved Critical (Unarmed)

15th Level - vs AC 29:
STR 19 (+4 belt)
Critical Focus

20th Level - vs AC 35:
STR 20 (+4 belt)

Chen is a core monk.
Merle is a core monk using alternate flurry.
Po is a new monk using alternate flurry with static unarmed damage d4 and Ki Strike Enhancement bonuses +1/+2/+3/+4/+5 at levels 3/7/11/15/19.
Ollie is a new monk using alternate flurry with unarmed damage d4/d6/d8/d10/d12 at levels 1/5/9/13/17 and Ki Strike Enhancement bonuses +1/+2/+3/+4/+5 at levels 3/7/11/15/19.

Spoiler:

(vs AC 17/20/24/29/35)

Chen 1: +2/+2 is 30% for 5.5 damage
Chen 5: +7/+7 is 40% for 7.5 damage
Chen 10: +13/+13/+8/+8 is 50%/25% for 9.5 damage
Chen 15: +18/+18/+13/+13/+8/+8 is 50%/25%/5% for 11 damage
Chen 20: +24/+24/+19/+19/+14/+14/+9 is 50%/25%/5% for 16 damage

Merle 1: +4/(+4) is 40%/(16%) for 5.5 damage
Merle 5: +9/(+9) is 50%/(25%) for 7.5 damage
Merle 10: +15/+10/(+15x2) is 60%/35%/(??%) for 9.5 damage
Merle 15: +20/+15/+10/(+20x3) is 60%/35%/10%/(??%) for 11 damage
Merle 20: +26/+21/+16/+11(+26x3) is 60%/35%/10%/5%/(??%) for 16 damage

Po 1: +4/(+4) is 40%/(16%) for 4.5 damage
Po 5: +10/(+10) is 55%/(30%) for 6.5 damage
Po 10: +17/+12/(+17x2) is 70%/45%/(??%) for 8.5 damage
Po 15: +24/+19/+14/(+24x3) is 80%/55%/30%/(??%) for 10.5 damage
Po 20: +31/+26/+21/+16(+31x3) is 85%/60%/35%/10%/(??%) for 11.5 damage

Ollie 1: +4/(+4) is 40%/(16%) for 4.5 damage
Ollie 5: +10/(+10) is 55%/(30%) for 7.5 damage
Ollie 10: +17/+12/(+17x2) is 70%/45%/(?%)/(??%) for 10.5 damage
Ollie 15: +24/+19/+14/(+24x3) is 80%/55%/30%/(?%)/(??%)/(???%) for 13.5 damage
Ollie 20: +31/+26/+21/+16(+31x3) is 85%/60%/35%/10%/(?%)/(??%)/(???%) for 15.5 damage

ok, i need help calculating the conditional attacks. before i plug my numbers, i need to figure the probability of second and third alt flurry attacks hitting given a multiple attack sequence...

i am remembering vaguely some statistics rule in which if you want to calculate the probability of multiple things happening in a string (such as two attacks hitting, given each's individual chance), you sum their union% and subtract their intersection%? is this remembered right?

so, for "Merle 10" is that 60%x60% plus 35%x35% minus 60%x35%?

and so 36% + 11% - 21% = 26% chance that second flurry attack lands?

i will come back to this later.

Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You're correct about a rule for conditional events existing - personally I didn't bother to look it up as the actual size of the equation starts getting daunting with so many events in the probability chain. That is why I decided to implement a simulation for it (quickly written, if you're familiar with programming).


version 5.0

Monk

Spoiler:

Monk
For the truly exemplary, martial skill transcends the battlefield—it is a lifestyle, a doctrine, a state of mind. These warrior-artists search out methods of battle beyond swords and shields, finding weapons within themselves just as capable of crippling or killing as any blade. These monks (so called since they adhere to ancient philosophies and strict martial disciplines) elevate their bodies to become weapons of war, from battle-minded ascetics to self-taught brawlers. Monks tread the path of discipline, and those with the will to endure that path discover within themselves not what they are, but what they are meant to be.

Role:

Monks excel at overcoming even the most daunting perils, striking where it's least expected, and taking advantage of enemy vulnerabilities. Fleet of foot and skilled in combat, monks can navigate any battlefield with ease, aiding allies wherever they are needed most.

Alignment: Any Lawful

Hit Die: d8

Saving Throws: Fortitude, Reflex, Will, all strong

Class Skills:

The monk's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (History) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Stealth (Dex), and Swim (Str).

Skill Ranks per Level: 4

Table: The Monk

1… Open Hand Combat (1d4), Flurry of Blows, Stunning Fist
2… Ki Pool, Monk Secret, Martial Arts Style Feat
3… Ki Strike +1, Fast Movement
4… Monk Secret, Evasion
5… Open Hand Combat (1d6)
6… Monk Secret, Martial Arts Style Feat
7… Ki Strike +2
8… Monk Secret, Improved Evasion
9… Open Hand Combat (1d8)
10.. Advanced Secrets, Monk Secret, Martial Arts Style Feat
11.. Ki Strike +3
12.. Monk Secret
13.. Open Hand Combat (1d10)
14.. Monk Secret, Martial Arts Style Feat
15.. Ki Strike +4
16.. Monk Secret
17.. Open Hand Combat (1d12)
18.. Monk Secret, Martial Arts Style Feat
19.. Ki Strike +5
20.. Monk Secret, Ki Enlightenment

Class Features:

Spoiler:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
Monks are proficient with the club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama*, nunchaku*, quarterstaff*, sai*, shortspear, short sword, shuriken*, siangham*, sling, and spear. Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields. When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses his AC bonus, as well as his open hand combat, fast movement, and evasion abilities.
Weapons marked with an asterisk (*) are special monk weapons.

Open Hand Combat:
The monk is a master of martial arts. He gains the Improved Unarmed Strike feat and inflicts 1d4 damage (as a medium creature) plus his full Strength modifier on a successful hit. His unarmed damage increases to 1d6 at 5th level, 1d8 at 9th level, 1d10 at 13th level, and 1d12 at 17th level. Fighting this way he uses punches, kicks, knees, elbows, and headbutts to subdue his foes, and as such, there is no such thing as an 'off-hand' attack for him, nor does having his hands full prohibit him from making an unarmed strike. Lastly, he gains the Agile Maneuvers feat, except that he adds both his Strength and Dexterity modifiers to his CMB. Open hand combat can be used only if a monk is wearing light armor or no armor.

Flurry of Blows:
A monk fighting unarmed and/or using special monk weapons strikes with extraordinary speed and accuracy, and can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action, using his monk level in place of his base attack bonus. If one of his attacks hits this round, he rolls damage as normal, and may immediately make an additional attack against a foe within range at full bonus. At 8th level, when performing a flurry of blows, a monk who successfully hits with two attacks this round is granted a second additional attack at full bonus. At 15th level, when performing a flurry of blows, a monk who successfully hits with three attacks this round is granted a third additional attack at full bonus. Flurry of blows can be used only if a monk is wearing light armor or no armor.

Stunning Fist:
At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This condition replaces stunning the target for 1 round, and a successful saving throw still negates the effect. At 4th level, he can choose to make the target fatigued. At 8th level, he can make the target sickened for 1 minute. At 12th level, he can make the target staggered for 1d6+1 rounds. At 16th level, he can permanently blind or deafen the target. At 20th level, he can paralyze the target for 1d6+1 rounds. The monk must choose which condition will apply before the attack roll is made. These effects do not stack with themselves (a creature sickened by Stunning Fist cannot become nauseated if hit by Stunning Fist again), but additional hits do increase the duration.
Alternatively, as a standard action, the monk may resolve a single Stunning Fist attack as a touch attack. If this attacks hits, it does no damage, but otherwise functions normally.

Ki Pool:
At 2nd level, a monk begins to unlock his spiritual potential. He gains a ki pool with a number of points equal to half his monk level plus his Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). These points replenish after 8 hours of meditation or rest. So long as a monk retains at least 1 point in his ki pool, he adds his Wisdom bonus to his Armor Class. This defense remains active even if the monk is caught flat-footed. This AC bonus raises by +1 at 4th level, and again every 4 monk levels thereafter, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level. Furthermore, whenever the monk expends 1 or more points from his ki pool, he automatically gains a +4 dodge bonus to his AC for 1 round.
A monk may spend 1 point from his ki pool as a swift action to initiate a flurry of blows as part of any standard action or full-round action that allows at least one melee attack. The monk may use his monk level in place of his base attack bonus and is granted any additional attacks from the flurry of blows ability, as normal.
As the monk gains levels, he gains additional abilities that are powered by his ki pool.

Monk Secrets:
Beginning at 2nd level, and every even level thereafter, the monk unlocks a physical or spiritual insight. Choose one ability from the list below. At 10th level, he may instead select an ability from the list of Advanced Monk Secrets.

Monk Secrets
:
Still Mind:
The monk gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells and effects; at 10th level, this bonus expands to +4. Further, the monk's daily ki pool expands by 1 point.
Maneuver Training:

The monk never provokes an attack of opportunity when performing a combat maneuver. Further, he gains an additional +1 competence bonus to CMB and CMD for each feat he possesses that grants a bonus to a combat maneuver check.
Slow Fall:

The monk always lands on his feet when he falls. He reduces fall damage by one die (1d6) for every two monk levels; if he is falling within reach of a wall he may instead fall as if under a Feather Fall spell for 1 round every two monk levels he possesses - these graceful falling modes may be combined for a complicated fall so long as the number of dice negated plus the number of rounds feather falling does not exceed half his monk level. This ability may be used in conjunction with the Acrobatics skill. At 20th level, the monk may Slow Fall any distance.
High Jump:
The monk adds his level to all Acrobatics checks made to jump, both for vertical jumps and horizontal jumps. In addition, he always counts as having a running start when making jump checks using Acrobatics. By spending 1 point from his ki pool as a swift action, a monk gains a +20 bonus on Acrobatics checks made to jump for 1 round. The monk may charge through difficult terrain unhindered by succeeding at a jump check. As the jump must clear both vertical and horizontal space, set the DC according to the more difficult of either the horizontal distance or the vertical distance, and add 5. If a charging monk's jump check successfully ends in a square occupied by his opponent, he instead lands adjacent, and any unarmed attacks made this round instead add 1-1/2 times the monk's Strength modifier to damage.
Purity of Body:

The monk gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases; at 10th level, this expands to immunity to poisons of all kinds. Further, the monk's daily ki pool expands by 1 point.
Wholeness of Body:
The monk can heal his own wounds as a swift action. He can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to his monk level times his Wisdom modifier by using 2 points from his ki pool. Successive uses of this ability in the same day (between 8 hour rest periods) require +1 cumulative ki points to activate.
Suspend Animation:
The monk may slow his body functioning to a crawl by spending 1 point from his ki pool as an immediate action, showing no outward vital signs of life even under close inspection (Heal DC 20 plus half monk level plus Wisdom modifier). If he does this as his foe strikes him, he must succeed at feinting - a Bluff check against the higher of either 10 plus his opponent's BAB plus Wisdom modifier, or 10 plus his opponent's Sense Motive bonus - to be viewed by his opponent as felled by the strike. He may remain in this state for up to one hour per three monk levels (minimum 1 hour), requiring no air to breathe and stopping any poison or other metabolic affliction. Though considered helpless, he retains his senses and remains fully aware of his surroundings, and can snap out of the trance as a free action. Doing so suddenly may enable him to gain surprise against an unsuspecting creature - his ruse may, at DM discretion, be considered a form of 'cover' for the purposes of attempting an opposed Stealth check.
World Wise:
see Dabbler's Mystic Monk for ability.
Martial Weapon Kata:

The monk may choose a single martial weapon with the double, finesse, light, or ranged descriptor to hereafter treat as a special monk weapon.

Advanced Monk Secrets:
Abundant Step:

The monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell Dimension Door. Using this ability is a move action that consumes 2 points from his ki pool. His caster level for this effect is equal to his monk level. He cannot take other creatures with him when he uses this ability.
Diamond Soul:
The monk gains spell resistance equal to his current monk level + 10. In order to affect the monk with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the monk's spell resistance.

Quivering Palm:
The monk can set up vibrations within the body of another creature that can thereafter be fatal if the monk so desires. He can use this quivering palm attack once per day, and he must announce his intent before making his attack roll. Creatures immune to critical hits cannot be affected. Otherwise, if the monk strikes successfully and the target takes damage from the blow, the quivering palm attack succeeds. Thereafter, the monk can try to slay the victim at any later time, as long as the attempt is made within a number of days equal to his monk level. To make such an attempt, the monk merely wills the target to die (a free action), and unless the target makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the monk's level + the monk's Wis modifier), it dies. If the saving throw is successful, the target is no longer in danger from that particular quivering palm attack, but it may still be affected by another one at a later time. A monk can have no more than 1 quivering palm in effect at one time. If a monk uses quivering palm while another is still in effect, the previous effect is negated. The monk must be at least 15th level to select this advanced monk secret.
Timeless Body:
The monk no longer takes penalties to his ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that he has already taken, however, remain in place. Age bonuses still accrue, and the monk still dies of old age when his time is up. Further, the monk's daily ki pool expands by 2 points.
Tongue as the Sun and Moon:
The monk can speak with any living creature. Further, the monk's daily ki pool expands by 2 points.
Empty Body:

The monk gains the ability to assume an ethereal state for 1 minute as though using the spell Etherealness. Using this ability is a move action that consumes 3 points from his ki pool. This ability only affects the monk and cannot be used to make other creatures ethereal.
Exotic Weapon Kata:

The monk may choose a single exotic weapon with the double, finesse, light, or ranged descriptor to hereafter treat as a special monk weapon.

Martial Arts Style Feats:

At 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, a monk may select a bonus combat feat. He need not meet any of the ability score prerequisites, and he may use his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to qualify, so long as he meets all other prerequisites as normal to take the feat.

Ki Strike:

At 3rd level, so long as the monk retains at least 1 point in his ki pool, his unarmed attacks are treated as magic, and he gains a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and to damage. At 7th level, so long as the monk retains 2 points, he gains a +2 enhancement bonus. At 11th level, so long as he retains 3 points, he gains a +3 enhancement bonus. At 15th level, so long as he retains 4 points, he gains a +4 enhancement bonus. At 19th level, so long as he retains 5 points, he gains a +5 enhancement bonus.
This enhancement bonus is further added to the DC to resist his Stunning Fist attacks.
Lastly, a monk may spend 1 point from his ki pool as a swift action to imbue his unarmed strikes with the ability to bypass 1 point of Damage Reduction or Hardness per monk level. If the Damage Reduction is typeless or has two components, then the monk only overcomes 1 point for every two monk levels he possesses. This ability lasts for 1 minute.

Fast Movement:
At 3rd level, a monk gains an enhancement bonus of +10 feet to his land speed; this bonus increases by +10 feet every three monk levels thereafter, to a maximum of +60 feet at 18th level. A monk in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.
Lastly, a monk may spend 1 point from his ki pool as a swift action to double his enhancement bonus to speed and allow it to stack with any other enhancement bonuses to speed for 1 round.

Evasion:

At 4th level or higher, a monk can avoid damage from many area-effect attacks. If a monk makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a monk is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Improved Evasion:

At 8th level, a monk's evasion ability improves. He still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Ki Enlightenment:

At 20th level, the monk's base Ki Pool expands to be equal to his level plus his Wisdom modifier. All Ki abilities that are swift actions become free actions. He may now substitute his Wisdom modifier for either his Strength or Dexterity modifier when making an attack. He also gains DR 10/Lawful. And lastly, so long as he wants, he may suppress his powerful aura, and instead choose to register as a non-magical 1st level Commoner of his ordinary alignment - any Divination spell of less than 9th level automatically fails.

...

math forthcoming. strings of long probability equations. aaahh!

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew / zax Monk All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.