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Muy Thai Monk


Advice

Taldor

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Hey all. I need an assist for a Half Orc Monk that fights like the title implies. This is a 20 point buy. Thanks!


Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Jawbreaker, Stunning Fist, Bonebreaker, Greater Grapple.

I would go with the martial artist archetype, maneuver master, or master of many styles.

Depending on what you want to do each archetype can work. You might even be able to do it with another class, but I don't know what you looking for other than what you listed.

How much defense you want vs offense will determine how you place your stats.


Muy Thai fighters have to be able to break a baseball bat with their shins to earn their 3rd rank in the art. I would recommend going with the martial artist arcetype as they get an ability like that and overall are good at striking. Also lets you multi-class (fitr,barbarian,ranger?).


Muay Thai doesn't train for grappling Wraith thats BJJ. He wants a Half-orc Tony Jaa not a Half- orc Royce Gracie :-)


Correct. I got my styles mixed up. Doesn't Muay Thai use clinches though?


Straight monk, I'd say go martial artist or manuever master. MoMS has neat tricks but makes me think more Kung Fu than Muy Thai.


wraithstrike wrote:

Correct. I got my styles mixed up. Doesn't Muay Thai use clinches though?

In aboxing match kind of way except it also can set up for knee strikes.


yeah you're looking to focus on HEAVY striking and a MININUM of grappling. I think Dragon style could be pretty cool to put in there just a by the way.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I like dragon style also. That is what I meant. You hold them and knee them. I think greater grappling might represent that well. Pin them, and drop knees.

Martial artist are good strikers though, but MoMS is not bad with AC, and the other styles come in handy also.

Taldor

I also thought about using Gatecrasher alternate racial trait and the Smash feat.

How about this for first level?

Crushing Orc:

Unnamed Hero
Half-Orc Monk (Martial Artist) 1
LN Medium Humanoid (orc)
Init +4; Senses Darkvision; Perception +6
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 14, touch 14, flat-footed 12 (+2 Dex)
hp 9 (1d8+1)
Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +4
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee Unarmed strike +2 (1d6+2/x2)
Special Attacks Flurry of Blows -1/-1, Gatecrasher
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 15, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 10
Base Atk +0; CMB +2 (+4 Grappling); CMD 16 (18 vs. Grapple, 18 vs. Sunder)
Feats Crushing Blow (-2), Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Monk Weapon Proficiencies, Stunning Fist (1/day) (DC 12)
Traits Caretaker, Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +6 (+7 to jump), Heal +7, Intimidate +6, Perception +6, Sense Motive +6, Stealth +6
Languages Common, Goblin, Orc
SQ AC Bonus +2, Stunning Fist (Stun), Unarmed Strike (1d6)

--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
AC Bonus +2 The Monk adds his Wisdom bonus to AC and CMD, more at higher levels.
Crushing Blow (-2) Stunning Fist reduces target's AC
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Flurry of Blows -1/-1 (Ex) Make Flurry of Blows attack as a full action.
Gatecrasher You gain a +2 bonus on Strength checks to break objects.
Improved Grapple You grapple at +2, with no attacks of opportunity allowed.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Stunning Fist (1/day) (DC 12) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist (Stun) (Ex) At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This conditio
Unarmed Strike (1d6) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.

Hero Lab® and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license.


Aazen wrote:

I also thought about using Gatecrasher alternate racial trait and the Smash feat.

How about this for first level?
** spoiler omitted **...

Out of curiosity, why the 12 int and 10 charisma?


good point, I might say take 2 off int and use that to up your con maybe?


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Dump Int and name him Apachai Hopachai.


Conundrum wrote:
Muay Thai doesn't train for grappling Wraith thats BJJ. He wants a Half-orc Tony Jaa not a Half- orc Royce Gracie :-)

Muay Thai has heavy use of grappling. Not necessarily on the floor making man love, but clinches, throws, locks, etc.

Edit: On thing is the sport, with rules about how/where to strike. Another is the martial art itself. Most martial arts cover all fighting situations. Muay Boran was a weapon originally, not a sport.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hm, I wonder how someone like Cassie Suthorn from the BattleTech novels from Victor Milan would be portrayed in Pathfinder? She uses Pentjak Silak.

Although that reference was probably too obscure and I'll just get some "Who?"'s. ^^


IF you want to be Tong Po in Kickboxing film ( this way I'll suggest a brawler fighter with cestus.

A brawler fighter sounds better for any real world martial artist, anyways. Monk is better for fantasy monks (those who can slow fal, dimension door, etc)


I'd probably go Unarmed Fighter 1 / Master of Many Styles 2 / Unarmed Fighter X to get the entire Dragon Style chain quickly.

STR 15 +2 racial
DEX 15
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 7

Feats:
1: Imp Unarmed, Dragon Style, Power Attack
2: Dragon whatever-it's-called (stage 2 in the chain)
3: Dragon Roar, Two-Weapon Fighting
4: Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike
5: Two-Weapon Rend
6: Weapon Specialization: Unarmed Strike
7: Imp Two-Weapon (assumed dual stat belt STR/DEX)

...and so on.

Taldor

I stopped reading Battletech after FASA stopped producing it. ;)

I went with the 12 int to eventually get the 13 in to access some expertiste and stuff. But seeing as how this might be feat heavy, I'll shelf that.

Revision:

Orc Smash!:

Male Half-Orc Monk (Martial Artist) 1
LN Medium Humanoid (orc)
Init +4; Senses Darkvision; Perception +6
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 14, touch 14, flat-footed 12 (+2 Dex)
hp 10 (1d8+2)
Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +4
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee Unarmed strike +3 (1d6+3/x2)
Ranged Shuriken +2 (1d2+3/x2)
Special Attacks Flurry of Blows -1/-1, Gatecrasher
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 10
Base Atk +0; CMB +3 (+5 Grappling); CMD 17 (19 vs. Grapple, 19 vs. Sunder)
Feats Crushing Blow (-2), Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Monk Weapon Proficiencies, Stunning Fist (1/day) (DC 12)
Traits Caretaker, Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +6 (+7 to jump), Heal +7, Intimidate +6, Perception +6, Stealth +6
Languages Common, Orc
SQ AC Bonus +2, Stunning Fist (Stun), Unarmed Strike (1d6)
Combat Gear Shuriken (15); Other Gear Belt pouch (empty), Holy symbol, wooden (????)
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
AC Bonus +2 The Monk adds his Wisdom bonus to AC and CMD, more at higher levels.
Crushing Blow (-2) Stunning Fist reduces target's AC
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Flurry of Blows -1/-1 (Ex) Make Flurry of Blows attack as a full action.
Gatecrasher You gain a +2 bonus on Strength checks to break objects.
Improved Grapple You grapple at +2, with no attacks of opportunity allowed.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Stunning Fist (1/day) (DC 12) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist (Stun) (Ex) At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This conditio
Unarmed Strike (1d6) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.

Hero Lab® and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license.


magnuskn wrote:

Hm, I wonder how someone like Cassie Suthorn from the BattleTech novels from Victor Milan would be portrayed in Pathfinder? She uses Pentjak Silak.

Although that reference was probably too obscure and I'll just get some "Who?"'s. ^^

Penjak silat is a "hard style" incorporating bladed weapon and looks very elegant. The character you referenced draws a blank. The ONLY Fasa game I ever played and Loved was shadowrun 1s thru 3rd editions.


Errant Mercenary wrote:
Conundrum wrote:
Muay Thai doesn't train for grappling Wraith thats BJJ. He wants a Half-orc Tony Jaa not a Half- orc Royce Gracie :-)

Muay Thai has heavy use of grappling. Not necessarily on the floor making man love, but clinches, throws, locks, etc.

Edit: On thing is the sport, with rules about how/where to strike. Another is the martial art itself. Most martial arts cover all fighting situations. Muay Boran was a weapon originally, not a sport.

Not known for their grapling skills beyond clinching if you read the Muay Thai wiki, where as even so called "sport" martial arts like BJJ are grapple-centric with little striking. That is why MMA's use Muay Thai often as a striking base and learn how to grapple from practitioners of an art based on grappling.


Ya know, slightly off topic, but I could see a hobgoblin ironskin monk doing a good impression of a muay thai fighter.

Taldor

Has anyone ever seen Kathy Long in the movie Knights? It had Lance Henriksen in it. I was thinking a fighting style like that. Master of Many may be the style to go since she can do; Aikido,Chinese Kung Fu San Soo,Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Kali,and Wing Chun Kung Fu.


Mmm, if you want to blend them together, yes, MoMS would be a solid option. If that isn't an issue, you could just take a couple of the style feats and swap style usage as desired.


The character you are now describing is NOTHING like a Muay Thai fighter. Time to start a new thread.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Is Half-Orc a must?


Lol, Conondrum. Its still sorta on topic.

And yeah, just for some clarity here, 20 point buy obviously, but what other restrictions are there(including personal taste, does no good to suggest something you don't find appealing just because of mechanics, you need to like your char) like books etc?


I think of MoMs being more like Bruce Lee, who studied MANY styles to develop JKD.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Never let the name of your class define you.

MoMS combined with Unarmed Fighter is a good route.

Also, don't try to match the style too exactly.

The style is meant to battle only one kind of opponent, humans.

You will not have such a luxury, and it is thematically relevant that your style would adapt.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Never let the name of your class define you.

MoMS combined with Unarmed Fighter is a good route.

Also, don't try to match the style too exactly.

The style is meant to battle only one kind of opponent, humans.

You will not have such a luxury, and it is thematically relevant that your style would adapt.

All 100% true.

PF is probably the most versatile version of dnd for making a martial artist type character. It's probably to start with an idea/theme concept that's not tied to mechanics and work from there. Between multiclassing, arch types, feat selection, its really, really fun to make these kinds of characters.


The power in Muay Thia blows I see more as having the effects of dirty tricks blinded, dazzled, deafened, entangled, shaken, or sickened.

An elbow can cut your face wide open causing bleeding that can blind.
A Knee to the head can sicken daze or deafen
A solid low kick can slow anyone down.

The grappling in Mauy Thai is mostly a fast joint lock to set up for a strike not really a roll on the ground man loving thing like brazilian jiu jitsu.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

You would be surprised how often I mention that class names do not define flavor, and I get a response as if I have spoken something blasphemous.


Serisan wrote:

I'd probably go Unarmed Fighter 1 / Master of Many Styles 2 / Unarmed Fighter X to get the entire Dragon Style chain quickly.

Feats:
1: Imp Unarmed, Dragon Style, Power Attack
2: Dragon whatever-it's-called (stage 2 in the chain)
3: Dragon Roar, Two-Weapon Fighting

Dragon Ferocity requires 5 ranks in acrobatics, Dragon Roar requires 8, so no matter how you slice it you can't finish the Dragon Style chain until 8th level at earliest.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

You have not read each of classes have you?

They can ignore many prerequisites.


My bad, too many archetypes to keep track of...

Sczarni

From what I have seen of Muay Thai, and then imagine it being used on an untrained combatant - I think flowing monk would also work.

Mechanically using repositions and drags along with dirty tricks (as mentioned above) would all be viable. Pepper in your unarmed strikes and flavour to taste!

If you do go the maneuver route and are looking to dip Fighter, consider the Lore Warden.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Aazen wrote:
I stopped reading Battletech after FASA stopped producing it. ;)

AFAIK, Milans novels were still published while FASA was active. I remember ordering the books directly from them, while I was living in Paraguay. The books took about one year to arrive ( due to the crappy Paraguayan postal service, I'm sure ), but that was a great day. :D

Taldor

I'm going with straight Monk till at least level 6. I think I might start with Dragon first pick up Tiger and Boar later. Will that work?

Sczarni

Which Arcetype? (if any). I know both Weapon Adept and Martial Artist will let you take Weapon Specialization for your unarmed strikes. Martial Artist lets you grab it sooner (level 4), but giving up Ki powers is something I struggle with.

Shadow Lodge

Conundrum wrote:
I think of MoMs being more like Bruce Lee, who studied MANY styles to develop JKD.

JKD is not a fighting art, its a philosiphy of fighting. they never had and movements until after he died.

Taldor

I was thinking Master Of Many with Flowing Monk.


as a former Muay Thai trainer, the elbow / knee / blocking of the style is neither STR at all.... it's PURE wisdom and dex...
it's learning how to read your opponent and where is the best place to place your movement of the hip to take out most of the impact of the opponent's blow.
that's adds up to high Dex (moving is always better than blocking) and alot of CON (blocking and taking in the blow).
it's not STR related at all nor DR - you suffer the effect of waht comes in and it adds up in the fight... only if you are with good health - you can take a few prior to dropping...


Check out Heroes of the East by Little Red Goblin Games. They migt have what you're looking for.

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