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Making it a matter of public record


Off-Topic Discussions


As the election is coming up this is worth watching.

Makes me wish that people would video tape and publicly post (perhaps on Youtube) what they expect their candidate to accomplish in the next four years (assuming their candidate wins the election).

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hey look. It's a political YouTube video! These are always educational and not filled with half-truths, misinformation, and straight up lies.


A Man In Black wrote:
Hey look. It's a political YouTube video! These are always educational and not filled with half-truths, misinformation, and straight up lies.

Yes, YouTube videos usually have half-truths, misinformation, and straight up lies.

Which is almost as bad as dismissing a political video -just- because its on YouTube. Exposing one's self to opinions different from one's own should lead to self-examination, not burying one's head further into the sand.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Thank you for your review, noted sane person Darkwing Duck.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

So...despite acknowledging that the video is filled (exclusively) with lies, half-truths, misinformation, et al., you feel it's important to bring this to our attention so that we expose ourselves to opinions different than our own.

Actually, going down the "bullet points" in this video, it's basically all fabrication.

I'll never get those few minutes back, and I blame you.


meatrace wrote:

So...despite acknowledging that the video is filled (exclusively) with lies, half-truths, misinformation, et al., you feel it's important to bring this to our attention so that we expose ourselves to opinions different than our own.

Actually, going down the "bullet points" in this video, it's basically all fabrication.

I'll never get those few minutes back, and I blame you.

I didn't say that the video is filled exclusively with lies.

The video raises a lot of facts. For example, Obama's administration has NOT seen a surge of transparency. His administration continues to have high unemployment. He has backed a long list of failed green businesses. His time in office has given us a huge middle class tax hike.

In fact, this video has quite a lot of truth in it.

But, that wasn't my point. My point is that I'd like to see people being held accountable for their vote. To that end, I'd like to see people publicly post what they think their candidate will achieve in the next four years.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Darkwing Duck wrote:
The video raises a lot of facts. For example, Obama's administration has NOT seen a surge of transparency. His administration continues to have high unemployment. He has backed a long list of failed green businesses. His time in office has given us a huge middle class tax hike.

I like how you can't even list examples from the video without at least one non-fact.


A Man In Black wrote:
Darkwing Duck wrote:
The video raises a lot of facts. For example, Obama's administration has NOT seen a surge of transparency. His administration continues to have high unemployment. He has backed a long list of failed green businesses. His time in office has given us a huge middle class tax hike.
I like how you can't even list examples from the video without at least one non-fact.

I like how you can't identify any non-fact.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Darkwing Duck wrote:
I like how you can't identify any non-fact.

Now with helpful bolding.

Quote:
The video raises a lot of facts. For example, Obama's administration has NOT seen a surge of transparency. His administration continues to have high unemployment. He has backed a long list of failed green businesses. His time in office has given us a huge middle class tax hike.


The "long list of failed green businesses" is, I believe, 3 long. Out of, what, 36 businesses invested in as part of his stimulus? Ye gods, only a 91% success rate? What were they thinking?!

What is the middle class tax hike exactly? Are you talking about the tax breaks for the middle class that he's trying to preserve while letting the rest of the Bush tax cuts on the ultra rich expire? Or have I just missed something.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Wow.

I mean, just, wow.

Okay, first, this is awesome. I love that something this terrible is the sort of thing that gets traction in the conservative community. The fact that this video has over 1,000,000 views is kind of insane. It means the conservative community is so starved for rallying ideas that they'll flock to an offensively bad example of self-important, half-baked, hey-look-everyone-I-can-make-movies-on-the-computer "creativity".

Second, the "points" raised - and, mind you, they're not really points; they're terrible, cartoon-extreme caricatures of what 2012 life is like for people that the author must truly think exist - are so laughably cobbled together that anyone who isn't watching it for the sole purpose of having their own closely-held beliefs reinforced would probably start looking for the parody group responsible for the video. It's like Poe's Law met a bored housewife with a MacBook. I mean, it's put together by these guys, for god's sake.

I lost it when she blamed the death of her fictional father on his inhaler brand being outlawed, which in turn implies that it's Obama's fault. Primatene Mist, for those curious, was banned because it contains CFCs. There are plenty of inhaler alternatives, and the manufacturer of Primatene Mist is developing a version of that particular inhaler that doesn't contain CFCs. The fact that the manufacturer failed to comply with the Montreal Protocol is, apparently, Obama's fault. In Crazytown.

Darkwing Duck, it's not that we need to be exposed to conservative arguments. We already have been. We love that stuff. We are so saturated with conservative talking points and rhetoric that we could probably pretend to be conservatives better than most actual conservatives. It's really kind of interesting. On the one hand, it sucks listening to conservatives because it just reminds you that a significant chunk of the country agrees with what is being said. On the other hand, it makes you feel awesome, because it's always so laughably bad. So bad, in fact, that multiple entire television shows exist pretty much solely because there's so much conservative idiocy out there to make fun of. It's just so bad.

I really want to impress this upon you. What you showed us is terrible. Seriously, super awful. Incredibly poorly put-together. I can't believe this woman managed to open iMovie. If I were her fake father, I'd have a fake asthma attack just from watching this.


Here's the parody bio I just wrote up for the star of that video. I'm brilliant.

Quote:
I am Sunny and this is my house, from whence CREATIVITY WILL ERUPT AND SPEW MY BRILLIANCE OVER ALL OF MANKIND!! My goal is world dominance, but I’ll settle for being the head of a cult with maybe, 20 or 30 devout followers. (I’ve always wanted a personal assistant.) I am an Objectivist, which means Ayn Rand is my God, except that being an Objectivist I am also an atheist so Ayn Rand wouldn’t approve, which puts me in a terrible paradox. I don’t think being the head of a cult would be very Objectivish either. So, I guess if you could at least simply worship me adoringly while keeping all your worldly goods and your reasoning mind intact I will be satisfied.

Actually, I lied. That's her real bio, from her blog.

I know, right?!


meatrace wrote:
The "long list of failed green businesses" is, I believe, 3 long.

Its a lot longer than three.

Solar Trust of America
Bright Source
Solyndra
LSP Energy
Energy Conversion Devices
Abound Solar
SunPower
Beacon Power
Ecotality
A123 Solar
UniSolar
Azure Dynamics
Evergreen Solar
the list goes on
Not that this should surprise anyone. According to a study by a Stanford University research fellow, 80% of DOE Green Energy loans went to Obama backers. It was cronyism at its finest.

meatrace wrote:
What is the middle class tax hike exactly?

Obamacare


And I stress that I'm not a conservative. I'm a libertarian. By the way those words are used in this forum, libertarian is very much not conservative because we stay the hell out of peoples' private lives.


Wait...please explain how Obamacare as it exists now is a middle class tax hike. Remember, her argument is that those things are present in 2012. Since the mandate isn't in place yet, I fail to see how it's a tax hike for anyone right now.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Darkwing Duck wrote:
Solar Trust of America

They were offered a loan guarantee and turned it down. I'm not sure how an example of the government not investing in a company supports your argument.

Quote:
Bright Source

Still in business.

Quote:
Energy Conversion Devices

Also declined loan guarantees.

Quote:
SunPower

Still in business.

Quote:
Ecotality

Still in business.

Quote:
A123 Solar

There is no such business, but if you mean A123 Systems (a maker of rechargeable batteries), they're still in business, if ailing.

Quote:
UniSolar

A subsidiary of Energy Conversion Devices, above.

Quote:
Azure Dynamics

I can't find any evidence of US loan guarantees for this company other than other copy-pastes of your list. Help me out, here? I see some Canadian stuff.

Quote:
Evergreen Solar

Received loan guarantees and tax breaks from Massachusetts, not the federal government.

So that leaves four entries from your list that actually received federal green energy loan guarantees and subsequently went out of business, DWD. You sure showed meatrace!

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Also, I spent more time and effort debunking that than it deserved, because it's b%!%+*~% copypasta pasted on every damn forum.


A Man In Black wrote:
So that leaves four entries from your list that actually received federal green energy loan guarantees and subsequently went out of business, DWD. You sure showed meatrace!

This is why I keep you around, AMiB. I mean, I could have looked all that crap up myself, but I'm just like "AMiB will do the heavy lifting for me, I can just sit back, point and laugh".


Darkwing Duck wrote:
meatrace wrote:
The "long list of failed green businesses" is, I believe, 3 long.
Its a lot longer than three.

Not much longer; it's three or four, depending on the source. That's from the L.A. Times Business section, by the way.

Quote:
Solar Trust of America

...turned down Federal assistance.

Quote:
Bright Source

Is actually called BrightSource, and is very much still in business.

Quote:
Solyndra

That's one.

Quote:
LSP Energy

Has filed for bankruptcy, but I can find no evidence that it received targeted federal funding as a green energy business. A number of conservative websites are reporting it on their list without source.

Quote:
Energy Conversion Devices

Same as above.

Quote:
Abound Solar

That's two.

Quote:
SunPower

Is in business.

Quote:
Beacon Power

Has been picked up by Rockland Capital. Not only is it building the project it received a loan guarantee for, but it's also being funded privately for a second, nearly identical project.

Quote:
Ecotality

Is in business.

Quote:
A123 Solar

Is called A123 Systems (they don't actually have anything to do with solar power), and is in business.

Quote:
UniSolar

Is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Energy Conversion Devices, which you already listed.

Quote:
Azure Dynamics

Again, in bankruptcy, but I can't find anything indicating that it was the recipient of targeted funding or Federal assistance.

Quote:
Evergreen Solar

And there's number three. This is the best one, of course, because Evergreen Solar also received $2.5 million in assistance from the administration of Governor Romney back when he was in office.

Quote:
the list goes on

No one cares. Your list sucks. It has three legitimate cases, and the rest are intellectually dishonest padding. And I use the words "intellectually dishonest" because that's an appropriate way to put it, but what I really mean is that the person who put your list together lied (and let's be honest, you didn't put that list together). The person who put that list together lies and deceives in an effort to harm someone else's reputation. That's what is going on. There's no other way to put it. And, of course, you're now a part of that because you've decided to go ahead and regurgitate it without even the barest amount of fact-checking, so I now get to blame you.

Well guess what? I did you job for you. There is your research, on every one of the bottom-of-the-barrel scraps your right-wing ghostwriter could cobble together. That's what you should have done, but you don't care, because you're not here to be truthful. You're not here to be equitable. You're not here to develop consensus. You're here to participate in a hilariously failed act of deception.

Quote:
Not that this should surprise anyone. According to a study by a Stanford University research fellow, 80% of DOE Green Energy loans went to Obama backers. It was cronyism at its finest.

By all means, provide us with the extensive list of green energy companies that backed John McCain or Mitt Romney. Let's have them.

Or is it possible, just maybe, that green energy companies almost invariably back Democratic candidates because Republican candidates are nearly universally hostile to renewable energy investment?

Quote:

Obamacare

Oh good lord.

EDIT: Ninja'd by AMIB!

That's what you have to deal with, Darkwing Duck. TWO PEOPLE were willing to do the work you won't do, even though you should be doing it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
meatrace wrote:
A Man In Black wrote:
So that leaves four entries from your list that actually received federal green energy loan guarantees and subsequently went out of business, DWD. You sure showed meatrace!
This is why I keep you around, AMiB. I mean, I could have looked all that crap up myself, but I'm just like "AMiB will do the heavy lifting for me, I can just sit back, point and laugh".

See, if I were a cleverer man, I would have learned this lesson by now.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Darkwing Duck wrote:
According to a study by a Stanford University research fellow, 80% of DOE Green Energy loans went to Obama backers.

Oh, I missed this. That Stanford University research fellow is Peter Schweitzer, best known for his books Do as I Say (Not as I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy, Architects of Ruin: How a Gang of Radical Activists and Liberal Politicians Destroyed Trillions of Dollars in Wealth in the Pursuit of Social Justice, and my favorite, Reagan's War: The Epic Story of His Forty Year Struggle and Final Triumph Over Communism. He's also a member of the far-right James Madison Institute and a former foreign-policy advisor to Sarah Palin during her vice presidential campaign.

Oh, and he's only a "Stanford University research fellow" in that he's a member of the Hoover Institute, another far-right thinktank. (He shares this distinction with Dinesh D'Souza, creator of 2016: Obama's America, and Condoleezza Rice, co-creator of Iraq War 2: Electric Boogaloo.)

You realize that we can just type this crap into Google, right?


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Hey...he's from Stanford.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Also, while I'm at it, the creator of that video is Sunny Lohmann, a columnist from PJ Media (a right-wing blog/news site), and head of the Minnesota Objectivist Association. She also writes for the Daily Caller.

So not exactly a "disenchanted 2008 Obama voter".

Shadow Lodge

well, i have a face for radio and a voice for silent pictures so i won't be using youtube. But i expect that under obama's next four years

unemployment will get down to around 6% (4%, like virginity and your 6 pack abs, is never comming back)

We will limit our wars to spook teams running around providing organizational resistance and the "our green their red" mantra. This is going to produce a lot of instability for a bit.

The rich will continue to pay a lower % of their taxes while decrying those that work for a living and pay a higher percentage of taxes by claiming that only federal income tax matters (as opposed to the other income taxes paid by the working.


Darkwing Duck wrote:
meatrace wrote:
The "long list of failed green businesses" is, I believe, 3 long.

Its a lot longer than three.

Solar Trust of America
Bright Source
Solyndra
LSP Energy
Energy Conversion Devices
Abound Solar
SunPower
Beacon Power
Ecotality
A123 Solar
UniSolar
Azure Dynamics
Evergreen Solar
the list goes on
Not that this should surprise anyone. According to a study by a Stanford University research fellow, 80% of DOE Green Energy loans went to Obama backers. It was cronyism at its finest.

meatrace wrote:
What is the middle class tax hike exactly?

Obamacare

Just curious, do you expect green energy companies to donate money to candidates who don't support green energy, but instead lead chants of Drill, Baby, Drill?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

DW, I personally think Obama is far from perfect.

If you're a libertarian, how about posting a video about libertarian ideals, which should stand on their own merit, and maybe actually changing my mind?

Instead, posting this garbage, which is every bit as onerous as the Dem's garbage, just makes me pity the subject of the attack.

Basically, if your team doesn't have anything constructive to add, stay quiet.


So to summarize this video: It's made by an objectivist pretending to be a naive 2008 Obama supporter, with her 2012 self blaming Obama for both her former self's supposed fantasies of life in Obama's American and for a bunch of things that either didn't happen or weren't Obama's fault.

So lying for the cause is ok with libertarians? No great surprise, I suppose. It's pretty standard in any cult. Lying in service of the greater truth.

Taldor

Scott Betts wrote:

Here's the parody bio I just wrote up for the star of that video. I'm brilliant.

Quote:
I am Sunny and this is my house, from whence CREATIVITY WILL ERUPT AND SPEW MY BRILLIANCE OVER ALL OF MANKIND!! My goal is world dominance, but I’ll settle for being the head of a cult with maybe, 20 or 30 devout followers. (I’ve always wanted a personal assistant.) I am an Objectivist, which means Ayn Rand is my God, except that being an Objectivist I am also an atheist so Ayn Rand wouldn’t approve, which puts me in a terrible paradox. I don’t think being the head of a cult would be very Objectivish either. So, I guess if you could at least simply worship me adoringly while keeping all your worldly goods and your reasoning mind intact I will be satisfied.

Actually, I lied. That's her real bio, from her blog.

I know, right?!

I like the fact that she doesn't even know Ayn Rand was an atheist, or that "______ is my god" is usually never a literal statement. Either way she's an idiot.


Guy Humual wrote:
Scott Betts wrote:

Here's the parody bio I just wrote up for the star of that video. I'm brilliant.

Quote:
I am Sunny and this is my house, from whence CREATIVITY WILL ERUPT AND SPEW MY BRILLIANCE OVER ALL OF MANKIND!! My goal is world dominance, but I’ll settle for being the head of a cult with maybe, 20 or 30 devout followers. (I’ve always wanted a personal assistant.) I am an Objectivist, which means Ayn Rand is my God, except that being an Objectivist I am also an atheist so Ayn Rand wouldn’t approve, which puts me in a terrible paradox. I don’t think being the head of a cult would be very Objectivish either. So, I guess if you could at least simply worship me adoringly while keeping all your worldly goods and your reasoning mind intact I will be satisfied.

Actually, I lied. That's her real bio, from her blog.

I know, right?!

I like the fact that she doesn't even know Ayn Rand was an atheist, or that "______ is my god" is usually never a literal statement. Either way she's an idiot.

I think she meant that Ayn Rand wouldn't approve of her worshiping Ayn Rand, since Ayn Rand was atheist herself.

It's still a stupid thing to say - something I'd expect out of a 16 year-old. She's a grade-A lunatic.


By the way, Duck: how does Ayn Rand's atheism fit with whatever it is your opinion on atheism and religion is this week?

Is she another fanatic atheist like the rest of us? Or has she somehow managed an objective rational form of atheism?

Taldor

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Scott Betts wrote:

I think she meant that Ayn Rand wouldn't approve of her worshiping Ayn Rand, since Ayn Rand was atheist herself.

It's still a stupid thing to say - something I'd expect out of a 16 year-old. She's a grade-A lunatic.

It's hard to tell, but when you say "____ is my god" it's very seldom meant literally because you're usually filling the blank with something that isn't actually recognized as a religion and it's usually something that you strongly approve of rather then actually worship. Is she saying that she has an actual shrine somewhere that she actually prays to Ayn Rand at?

But her wording "except that being an Objectivist I am also an atheist so Ayn Rand wouldn’t approve" confuses me. The way she words that it sounds like she thinks Ayn Rand wouldn't approve of her being an atheist rather then Ayn objecting to being worshiped as a god.

The thing that irks me about the republican party is that they want to paint Obama as some Marxist Nazi rather then the successful conclusion to the Bush presidency. Obama is probably the best Republican president since Ronald Regan. The people that should be complaining are the folks on the left, they're the ones that voted for change but got a lot of the same (there has been some change but not nearly enough in my mind), but because the folks on the right are so obsessed with winning that they've needed to create a fantasy world for themselves to retreat into. There are lots of really good things to call Obama out on but I suppose if the Republicans took that stance they'd end up being to the left of Obama.

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

How dare green energy companies try to get people elected who will cater to their interests. Who do they think they are, the oil companies?

Seriously, whiskey tango foxtrot. The oil executives get one of their own appointed vice president, he cooks the information so we go into Iraq and carve up its oil reserves to he companies like a thanksgiving turkey, we get 5,000 dead Americans and 100,000 dead Iraqis and 1 TRILLION dollar spent but giving out money so we can try to develop solar power makes you hitler.


By the way, for contrast's sake, here's a proper juxtaposition video put together by DailyKos. The editors of this video are competent, and did some solid research to pull these contradictory statements.

In fact, pretty much the only similarity between this video and the one Darkwing Duck posted is that the two main characters are both terrible actors.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Scott Betts wrote:


I think she meant that Ayn Rand wouldn't approve of her worshiping Ayn Rand, since Ayn Rand was atheist herself.

It's still a stupid thing to say - something I'd expect out of a 16 year-old. She's a grade-A lunatic.

Ayn Rand definitely approved of people worshiping her. Consistency was not her thing, unless we're talking about her deep devotion to sociopaths and being a world-class narcissist.

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