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Keeping Weapons Drawn at All Times


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

251 to 279 of 279 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | next > last >>

But if they're being exhausted from carrying around a mere longbow, then wearing heavy armor must be absolutely crippling. You can't have your cake and eat it too; if you're not giving them perma-Exhaustion for wearing armor or swinging a heavy greatsword around, then you'd have to let them carry around a longbow too. And that's just absurd; exploring wilderness with a bow is downright unacceptable and I will make whatever changes to the rules prove necessary to impose massive penalties on this affront to my power as GM.

Taldor

And what are you trying to prove exactly? I mean really. Like i said, if the fact that the player has his character have a bow ready to do a full attack every first round of combat bothers the GM so much, he can simply ask the player not to do so.


Roberta Yang wrote:
I'm also using the same muscles to move around in armor all day that I'd be using in a fight, guess I should be taking a -10 penalty to base speed for not walking around in blue jeans instead.

Heck, have you ever tried to hike thirty miles in blue jeans? They aren't exactly designed for long distance travel either (especially once you get them wet crossing the uncharted river or something)! I'm slapping you with 1d4 damage from uncomfortable rubbing, and be glad you got off easy this time!

*wags finger severely*


No, the GM can't, because actually talking to players would make too much sense. What the GM should do instead is make a 200-post thread claiming to ask a rules question but actually seeking validation for the position he's already chosen and rejecting any answer that doesn't fit the one he wants. I hear that's how mature players handle things.

Taldor

Is he your gm, that you attack him so vehemently? Or is it simple that you think that every GM you disagree with should be ridiculed?
Immature people exist. A lot of them play RPGs unfortunately. There is no need for such sarcasm. You are doing yourself a disservice.


I think you'll find that the problem is less that the GM does not share my position and more that the GM made a 200-post thread claiming to ask a rules question but actually seeking validation for the position he's already chosen and rejecting any answer that doesn't fit the one he wants. I though I made that clear when I said the problem was that the GM made a 200-post thread claiming to ask a rules question but actually seeking validation for the position he's already chosen and rejecting any answer that doesn't fit the one he wants.

Fake rules questions are dishonest and a complete waste of everyone's time.

Taldor

And you're helping by being extremely sarcastic about it? All you're doing is prolonging the life of this thread. Plus he has a right to make a 200 post thread claiming to ask a rules question, while secretly seeking validation for something that he decided already. You, however don't have the right to bash him because of it.

As a smart man once said, flag it and move on, if you think that the thread needs to be flagged.


Hama, if you will check Roberta Yang's posts (in his/her profile) you will notice that He/She does this type of post very regularly. Sometimes it is amusing, sometimes sarcastic, and often insulting. Ultimately, it is not worth debating it with him/her. (Not that I am disagreeing with the sentiment behind his/her comments.)

:)

- Gauss

Taldor

No, the sentiment is in place, i just don't see the point of the sarcasm...makes me want to disregard her/his posts and maybe miss something smart that he/she says...


Roberta Yang wrote:
I'm also using the same muscles to move around in armor all day that I'd be using in a fight, guess I should be taking a -10 penalty to base speed for not walking around in blue jeans instead.

Uh, there *is* a penalty to your base speed for being in heavy armor in the rules. And a penalty to any dex or str based skill checks. So that's already covered in the rules.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove here.


Gauss wrote:

Hama, if you will check Roberta Yang's posts (in his/her profile) you will notice that He/She does this type of post very regularly. Sometimes it is amusing, sometimes sarcastic, and often insulting. Ultimately, it is not worth debating it with him/her. (Not that I am disagreeing with the sentiment behind his/her comments.)

:)

- Gauss

Hmmm. That sounds a lot like letting the bully do what he wants, because it'll be worse if you annoy him and make a target of yourself with the truth.

I note there's a lot of highly intelligent people on these boards, Hama, that like nothing better than using their greater knowledge of a game as an unassailable platform from which to belittle, insult, and annoy others. Anyone that tries to suggest (politely) that they tone down their attitude becomes the next target. Most of these types have learned how to keep their insulting comments at least notionally on topic so as to avoid having their posts removed.

I see nothing wrong with calling that behaviour out. It's childish bullying, and there's really no place for it here - at least, there shouldn't be.


littlehewy, a bully has a physical or emotional component. Can a person on a message board really physically or emotionally harm me? Nope, flag it and move on. Let the board Devs remove it if it is offensive.

Your statement about letting the bully do what he wants is only true if that person can actually harm you. The moment that person crosses the line they are flagged and then the post is removed. No harm done.

Really, such people are minor annoyances at worst and ultimately powerless on a message board with active controls.

As for the intelligent people using the greater knowledge of the game to insult etc others. *shrug* That has occured for ages. Ignore it and move on. Or better yet, pay attention to those intelligent people that actually try to help.

Really, my statement to hama was a subtle suggestion to ignore Roberta, not to empower him/her by continuing this discussion about him/her.

- Gauss


No, bullies don't need physical components at all. And the level of mockery that some bring to their posts easily constitutes an emotional component.

Really, surely you've seen all the hoo-ha about teens committing suicide from Facebook and other online bullying.

Granted, bullying is a two-way street - you can't bully someone who won't be bullied. That involves completely ignoring it, or facing it down, ie calling it as Hama has done. But surely you don't think that kind of antisocial behaviour should be condoned?

Edit: And some people don't have the emotional strength to withstand that kind of mockery like most of us do. Does that mean they deserve to be bullied? Or should someone else say something in their defence?


The type of bullying you are talking about is the result of a bully doing something that somehow involves them in the personal life of that victim. That is not applicable here. This is not Facebook with a person's personal life exposed for all to see. It is a faceless, nameless message board where no personal details are shared.

So, how did my statement of 'ignore the person' get turned into 'what the person is doing is ok'? Perhaps you should reread my post to Hama again.

I indicated to Hama that this person has a habit of doing this (thus empowering Hama with the knowledge that it is not worth it to engage this person in a rational debate). Then I stated it is not worth debating it with this person.

So again I ask, show me where I said it should be condoned?

- Gauss


I didn't say you were condoning it, I was just checking that you weren't. Not trying to attack you, just bringing up points.

I suppose my tone of frustration at these people may have come across to you. I've seen people destroyed by bullying. I've also had my son be both a target and a perpetrator of bullying.

It's not cool. I've wanted to bring this stuff up with these people on here many times, but as you say, it's not worth it. You and Hama, however, are reasonable posters, so I guess I saw a chance to discuss the issue with you two rather than start a fight, and my vehemence got the better of me.

Apologies :)


Also, I know for a fact that these kind of posters can turn other intelligent, but more reasonable, people off wanting to be a part of these fora. I find that frustrating also.


No worries, things are fine. :)

You just have to analyze how much power these types really have. Answer: only as much as you give them. In a forum where things are not moderated well people might need defense by others. However, Paizo moderates this board quite well. Yes, it lets through some line walkers but that is fine too, we can just ignore those folks.

- Gauss

Grand Lodge

Hama wrote:

Have you ever fought in a suit of full plate? Have you ever walked in a 45 pound suit of chainmail for eight straight hours?

I have and it is tiring as hell. And i fought with a real longsword and a real heavy shield. And i was in good shape at the time. After fifteen or so swings, i couldn't lift my arm anymore, and after deflecting around twenty attacks from a guy, i couldn't lift my shield arm either.
After walking for eight hours in chainmail, i was so exausted that i couldn't get up on my feet once i sat down.

Then your NOT in good shape. Sorry, but I have a nice gut, have bronchatis and a bum knee and back...and you know what, I can STILL wear a suit of full plate and swing a sword around all day long while lugging around a tower shield. Hell I can even do this everyday for an entire week...and HAVE at pennsic.

Taldor

Swing all day? A real sword? Don't be funny.

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Define 'real sword'.


Cold Napalm wrote:
Hama wrote:

Have you ever fought in a suit of full plate? Have you ever walked in a 45 pound suit of chainmail for eight straight hours?

I have and it is tiring as hell. And i fought with a real longsword and a real heavy shield. And i was in good shape at the time. After fifteen or so swings, i couldn't lift my arm anymore, and after deflecting around twenty attacks from a guy, i couldn't lift my shield arm either.
After walking for eight hours in chainmail, i was so exausted that i couldn't get up on my feet once i sat down.
Then your NOT in good shape. Sorry, but I have a nice gut, have bronchatis and a bum knee and back...and you know what, I can STILL wear a suit of full plate and swing a sword around all day long while lugging around a tower shield. Hell I can even do this everyday for an entire week...and HAVE at pennsic.

I bet it just the fact that Hama is a weekend warrior, and therefore does not use the appropriate muscles for swinging a sword to the extent that a professional medieval warrior would be expected to. OR he is using a sword and shield that is too heavy. I'm pretty sure I could swing my backsword all day with a buckler, in a breastplate, and probably be less fatigued than if I did a 10 mile ruckmarch with 65-80 pounds of gear in my ruck, carrying a SAW.

ALSO, maille has poor weight distribution yes? Like wearing an IBA that isn't adjusted correctly. As such would not be an appropriate comparison to wearing a full or partial plate harness, since wearing one correctly usually involves the harness being tied to an arming doublet, giving it better weight distribution.

Not an attack just pointing out that modern people, even the majority of people who engage in historical recreational activities, aren't using the same muscles to the same extent that a martial character in a fantasy medieval setting would have been using since childhood.


In my experience a SCAdian heavy weapons "sword," being a club with a heavy basket hilt, generally weigh more than real swords. Assuming that Cold Napalm is a SCAdian based on the usage of tower shield while wearing full plate.

Grand Lodge

Hama wrote:
Swing all day? A real sword? Don't be funny.

If you think 15 swings and getting tired is fit, I'm not the one being funny here.

Donald Cyote wrote:
In my experience a SCAdian heavy weapons "sword," being a club with a heavy basket hilt, generally weigh more than real swords. Assuming that Cold Napalm is a SCAdian based on the usage of tower shield while wearing full plate.

Yes that reference was to SCA...albeit I do train in WMA as well. Fiore, I.33 and talhoffer...along with quite of a bit of personal expermentation with various other medieval weapons. And I have had sparring session that were 8 hours long with steel blunts and wooden wasters. Although those are unarmored and generally smaller shields/bucklers.

In anycase, 15 swings and your tired means your seriously out of shape. Even the little asian girls in my WMA classes can do that with ease.

Grand Lodge

Donald Coyote wrote:


ALSO, maille has poor weight distribution yes? Like wearing an IBA that isn't adjusted correctly. As such would not be an appropriate comparison to wearing a full or partial plate harness, since wearing one correctly usually involves the harness being tied to an arming doublet, giving it better weight distribution.

Actually, if you weave in leather cord at various points of the maille, it can be quite comfortable and not have all the weight be directly on your shoulders. Also period maille used flattened riveted rings and did not weight as much as the cheap butted rings that most modern people think of as maille.


Cold Napalm wrote:


In anycase, 15 swings and your tired means your seriously out of shape. Even the little asian girls in my WMA classes can do that with ease.

For sure. 8 hours of walking with 45 pounds of clothing, no matter how poorly distributed, and being tired after 15 blows means someone needs more conditioning.


Cold Napalm wrote:
Donald Coyote wrote:


ALSO, maille has poor weight distribution yes? Like wearing an IBA that isn't adjusted correctly. As such would not be an appropriate comparison to wearing a full or partial plate harness, since wearing one correctly usually involves the harness being tied to an arming doublet, giving it better weight distribution.
Actually, if you weave in leather cord at various points of the maille, it can be quite comfortable and not have all the weight be directly on your shoulders. Also period maille used flattened riveted rings and did not weight as much as the cheap butted rings that most modern people think of as maille.

One step past using your belt to help with the weight. Is the leather in the rings based on archeological finds? I confess that anything before rise and fall of plate never held my interest.


According to WEAPON page 106 a broadsword made in Scotland in approximately 1750 weighed in at 1.36 kg or 3 lb, with a length of 91 cm or 35 and three quarter inches. that means it weighed significantly less than a two liter bottle of water.

Now, while I wouldn't like to carry that around all day with my arm extended, could I? probably. It wouldn't be fun or convenient, but it's far from physically impossible.

An English longbow from around 1540 weighed in at 0.73 kg, or 1 and a half lb (Page 79). That's a 2 meter long weapon. Would it be inconvenient to carry around all day? Gods yes! would it be impossible? far from it.

Any inaccuracies about weight or weapon length in this post are due to source material.


FuelDrop wrote:

According to WEAPON page 106 a broadsword made in Scotland in approximately 1750 weighed in at 1.36 kg or 3 lb, with a length of 91 cm or 35 and three quarter inches. that means it weighed significantly less than a two liter bottle of water.

Now, while I wouldn't like to carry that around all day with my arm extended, could I? probably. It wouldn't be fun or convenient, but it's far from physically impossible.

An English longbow from around 1540 weighed in at 0.73 kg, or 1 and a half lb (Page 79). That's a 2 meter long weapon. Would it be inconvenient to carry around all day? Gods yes! would it be impossible? far from it.

Any inaccuracies about weight or weapon length in this post are due to source material.

Well I highly doubt if you were carrying your broadsword in hand, that you would be carrying it at arms-length. It is more likely that if you wanted to keep your single handed sword unsheathed and in hand you would be resting on or across your shoulder or nestled in the crook of your arm.

These positions show up in historical manuals of arms with such names as vom Tag and Carry Saber.

Grand Lodge

Donald Coyote wrote:
Cold Napalm wrote:
Donald Coyote wrote:


ALSO, maille has poor weight distribution yes? Like wearing an IBA that isn't adjusted correctly. As such would not be an appropriate comparison to wearing a full or partial plate harness, since wearing one correctly usually involves the harness being tied to an arming doublet, giving it better weight distribution.
Actually, if you weave in leather cord at various points of the maille, it can be quite comfortable and not have all the weight be directly on your shoulders. Also period maille used flattened riveted rings and did not weight as much as the cheap butted rings that most modern people think of as maille.
One step past using your belt to help with the weight. Is the leather in the rings based on archeological finds? I confess that anything before rise and fall of plate never held my interest.

No, there is no archeological finds to prove they did this. That said, people back then were not stupid and this method works extremely well at making the armor more comfortable. I can not imagine that people back then did not figure this out and use it. I seriously doubt that the SCA or any other modern group will have found a new way to wear armor or swing a sword effectively that our ancestors did not already figure out 500+ years ago.


After reading this, I think I would simply rule that if you want your weapons combat ready at all times, you travel slower than if they were relatively stowed away, because it's not just the position of the weapon, but the whole way you act and carry yourself. Someone constantly ready for combat is going to be ready if something should happen, but someone simply traveling with weapon close at hand might actually have a better chance of avoiding something in the wilderness simply because by the time anything realizes he's there, he's already well past the optimal point of attack, while the person going slower and watching every tree for trouble is still within a range that the creature can comfortably attack.

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