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Magus question, concerning metamagic rods and spellstrike


Rules Questions


Can use use a metamagic rod with a 2 handed weapon and spell strike ?


Anyone have any ideas?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber

No. You need one hand free to hold the rod.


Keep in mind that you can only use spell combat with 1 handed weapons.


I said spell strike not spell combat.

Grand Lodge

You need one hand to cast. You need one hand to hold the rod.(can't be the same hand) So using the two-handed weapon method with spell strike you would need an additional limb. This can be done with prehencile tail (tiefling) or alchemist extra limb, or a race with more than two hands.


jyster wrote:
I said spell strike not spell combat.

Wrong, you typed it. Saying something requires sound.

I was giving you advice. Using a 2 hander is foolish for a magus because you're giving up spell combat for a slightly higher damage die. Not worth it.


Jyster:

YES you can..there IS a way.

Use a Weapon Cord.

Step 1: Drop weapon (free action)
Step 2: Draw Metamagic Rod (move action)
Step 3: Cast spell (standard action)
Step 4: Drop Metamagic Rod (free action)
Step 5: Retrieve weapon (swift action)
Step 6: Make attack (free action)

Now, the reason you do not discharge your spell the moment you retrieve the weapon is because the Spellstrike FAQ Here states that picking up a weapon does not discharge the spell like a normal touch spell would.

Note: a Glove of Storing would prevent you from having to drop the Metamagic Rod.

- Gauss


If you have a spell you want to use a lot like this then magic linage for it and still spell take out the need a hand to cast


Gauss is correct.

In order to use Spellstrike, you must cast a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list. As long as you've done that, then you can deliver the spell through any weapon you are wielding as part of a melee attack.

In order to use a metamagic rod, you need to hold it while you cast the spell.

You don't have to be wielding the weapon at the time of casting, just at the time you make the attack to deliver the spell. You can use weapon cords, quickdraw, held charges, extra limbs, gloves of storing, etc.


Talonhawke wrote:
If you have a spell you want to use a lot like this then magic linage for it and still spell take out the need a hand to cast

It's an interesting concept. Can a magus use still spell metamagic to eliminate the somatic component of the spell, and therefore use spell combat while wielding a weapon two-handed? I think this should work by RAI, not so sure about the RAW though.


Gauss wrote:

Jyster:

YES you can..there IS a way.

Use a Weapon Cord.

Step 1: Drop weapon (free action)
Step 2: Draw Metamagic Rod (move action)
Step 3: Cast spell (standard action)
Step 4: Drop Metamagic Rod (free action)
Step 5: Retrieve weapon (swift action)
Step 6: Make attack (free action)

- Gauss

Or another way:

Step 0: Start with metamagic rod in hand.
Step 1: Cast spell (standard action).
Step 2: Drop rod (free action).
Step 3: Move to opponent (move action).
Step 4: Draw weapon during movement (free action).
Step 5: Make attack to deliver spell (free action).

Steps 3&4 can be combined if movement beyond a 5' step is unneeded. In that case quick draw could also allow one to (move action) stow the metamagic rod rather than dropping it.

-James


D'arandriel wrote:
Can a magus use still spell metamagic to eliminate the somatic component of the spell, and therefore use spell combat while wielding a weapon two-handed?

No.

Spell Combat (Ex): "To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand."


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

On a somewhat related note, even though they are not the best type of weapon for a magus to use, how would metamagic rods, spell strike, and cesti work together?

Since you can still use the hand your wearing a cestus on, could you have a metamagic rod in it, have the other hand free, cast your spell and then punch with the cestus using spell strike?


Krigare wrote:

On a somewhat related note, even though they are not the best type of weapon for a magus to use, how would metamagic rods, spell strike, and cesti work together?

Since you can still use the hand your wearing a cestus on, could you have a metamagic rod in it, have the other hand free, cast your spell and then punch with the cestus using spell strike?

Yep. Just like a spiked gauntlet. You can do that with Spell Combat, too, since they're both light weapons, and your other hand is free.


If you use spell combat, can you cleave afterwards?


jyster wrote:
If you use spell combat, can you cleave afterwards?

It depends on what you mean by afterwards. Cleave is a standard action, and Spell Combat is a full-round action. Under normal circumstances, you will need to wait until your next turn to use Cleave after Spell Combat.

If you mean Cleave during Spell Combat, no.

If you mean use Cleave with Spellstrike, sure.

Here's A Guide to Touch Spells, Spellstrike, and Spell Combat.

Qadira

why does ultimate combat have Arcana: Rod Wielder and Rod Mastery
Rod Wielder almost makes it sound like you can spellstrike with any rod... using the rod to hit someone. I know some rods count as light maces or whatnot. but metamagic rods don't, do they? are they improvised clubs?

Quote:

Rod Mastery (Su): Whenever the magus uses a rod, he calculates the DC for any spell it contains using his Intelligence modifier (minimum 0) instead of the minimum modifier needed to cast a spell of that level.

Rod Wielder (Su): The magus adds his Intelligence bonus (minimum 0) on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance when using a spell contained within a rod or when making a spellstrike attack channeled through a rod.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Modules Subscriber
Seraphimpunk wrote:

why does ultimate combat have Arcana: Rod Wielder and Rod Mastery

Rod Wielder almost makes it sound like you can spellstrike with any rod... using the rod to hit someone. I know some rods count as light maces or whatnot. but metamagic rods don't, do they? are they improvised clubs?

Quote:

Rod Mastery (Su): Whenever the magus uses a rod, he calculates the DC for any spell it contains using his Intelligence modifier (minimum 0) instead of the minimum modifier needed to cast a spell of that level.

Rod Wielder (Su): The magus adds his Intelligence bonus (minimum 0) on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance when using a spell contained within a rod or when making a spellstrike attack channeled through a rod.

Nope. There is nothing in the listing for either of those abilities that speaks about or interacts with spellstrike or spellcombat.

These arcana as written are designed to be used when you don't have a weapon in your hand.
Not everything about the Magus class revolves around hitting things with a weapon.


Krigare wrote:

On a somewhat related note, even though they are not the best type of weapon for a magus to use, how would metamagic rods, spell strike, and cesti work together?

Since you can still use the hand your wearing a cestus on, could you have a metamagic rod in it, have the other hand free, cast your spell and then punch with the cestus using spell strike?

Not in one round. You can cast the spell in one round with the rod, then attack the next round using the cestus. The same is possible with unarmed strike, natural attacks, armor spikes and a few other weapons.

Qadira

1. you always have to have a weapon in your hand to attack as a magus, as its been said you can't enhance an unarmed strike via your arcane pool.

2. one of the arcanas specifically says when spell striking with the rod.

Quote:
Rod Wielder (Su): The magus adds his Intelligence bonus (minimum 0) on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance when using a spell contained within a rod or when making a spellstrike attack channeled through a rod.

a spellstrike channeled through a rod indicates that you've cast a spell via spell combat, and are now using spellstrike to hit someone with the rod to deal damage and discharge the held spell.

which indicates that its possible to spellstrike with a rod, and use the rod as the weapon.
its confusing because there's also Wand Wielder, which lets you do spell combat from a wand in one hand instead of a free hand, and a weapon in your main hand.

Shadow Lodge

How about bashing someone with the rod?

Qadira

right? that'd make it a weapon, an improvised club or something? or just a club?
i know some rods count as light maces, or even +1 or +2 light maces.

Shadow Lodge

Seraphimpunk wrote:

right? that'd make it a weapon, an improvised club or something? or just a club?

i know some rods count as light maces, or even +1 or +2 light maces.

That section is a little odd. Some of them are light maces, but none of them are called out specifically as being clubs.

Its a three foot rod of metal. Considering you can get a club for free as a stick they should work as clubs.

Qadira

yeah, same damage, 1d6 for medium. same crit.
don't have a range increment for a thrown light mace,
and its light, aka a light weapon vs. a club's one handed weapon.

an immovable rod can support 8,000lbs of pressure, but doesn't say whether it can act as a club or mace.

it just says in the general rod physical description section:

Quote:
(Many, as noted in their descriptions, can function as light maces or clubs due to their hardy construction.) These sturdy items have AC 9, 10 hit points, hardness 10, and a break DC of 27.

it'd make it a lot easier to metamagic a spell if you're spellstriking through the rod itself =P lol

which can be a con in allowing characters to do it. = P

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