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Ninja / Oracle Build


Advice


Hi Folks,

we are currently playing the Kingmaker AP and unfortunately last session my character died when fighting a giant plant creature.

So I've decided to build a new character, based on the oracle third party shadow mystery (http://www.pathfinderdb.com/character-options/class-options/1256-oracle-my stery-shadows).

My idea was, to build a Fetchling Ninja / Oracle Character since I find the concept pretty flavorful, but since the kingmaker AP is my first pathfinder experience, any advise on feat selection and level advancement would really be appreciated.

I was playing with the idea to use a ninja dip to take the flurry of stars ninja trick and build a ranged sneak attacker, who relies on the oracle spells to trigger sneak attack, but to be honest I have no idea, whether this is a valuable concept.

So thanks in advance for anyone who tries to hep me out ;-)


I actually just came up with a similar concept (different mystery) just a few mere minutes ago.

Ranged sneaker ninja/oracle

as for kingmaker, I dont know how far you are in the AP, but eventually there is room in your party for a character like this, don't want to post any spoilers but i think you would find this type of niche character very satisfying.


We are just at the beginning of the second book, we founded our kingdom just a session ago.

So if you say you had a similar concept in mind, would you care to go into detail a little more?

What mystery would you chose? Any proposals on feat selection for the fist few levels?


MY wife had a very satisfying dagger hucking elf rogue in Kingmaker (before ninja was a PFRPG base class) with the ninja out now, and alot of new ranged feats for cartwheeling around in combat and tossing ranged sneak attacks, it's time to revisit that build! The Mysteries we were talking about are ancestor (super power!) or Flame for all it's movement awesome sauce!


dark tapestry seems appealing too

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Pawns Subscriber

How about a sylph character with the feat that lets you see through fog and then use obscuring mist a lot? Sylphs also get +4 on stealth and can eventually fly later through feats.

There is another possibility of playing an ifriit with fire sight, using smoke bombs and similar spells.

You can still combine that with Pendagasts suggestions.


@Hayato: Sylph seems to be a pretty good choice for a ninja, but to be honest I don't really think that this race fits properly to the ninja background.

Another point of interest is, whether I should build an oracle with a ninja dip or vice versa. A true multiclass character might also be possible, but I think this might cause problems in higher level settings.

What do you think?

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Pawns Subscriber

I like concept characters very much that focus on some things they can do good. Important is you know what you are taking why and you know what you want to do with it. For me a sylph with the racial traits Breeze-kissed and Whispering wind makes a pretty good ninja, especially if you can cast obscuring mist now and then and have hte cloud gazer feat.
That´s completely up to your taste and imagination though.
Fetchlings make good ninja´s too.

I didn´t look into the oracle lately, but i thought of a similar character before, but using a sorcerer.
I´ll take a look at oracle later and tell you my thoughts.
Oracle curses could really hamper you though.
Or give you fun at roleplaying, depends on the perspective :)

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Pawns Subscriber

I would like to see Pendagasts build though very much!
Can you please share with us?


Yeah this would definitly be great!


A build from a while ago that you might look at for some ideas is the Mist Assassin. Uses Waves Mystery and Deaf Curse and Rogue, though there was talk of doing it as Ninja if he ever revisited it. It was, I believe, 2 rogue levels for every 1 Oracle. The Waves Mystery for Obscuring Mist and Water Sight, using ranged attacks so that you had concealment.


@That seems to be a decent approach, I think.

Ninja might be slightly better than Rogue, because of the flurry of stars trick. With TWF you can launch up to 4 Shuriken through the mist with a full attack, which alle would do SA-Damage.
A real setback would be the heavy penalties applied on that kind of attack. Any suggestions on how to compensate for the lost BAB and over all low to-hit chance of a Ninja/Oracle Build?

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Pawns Subscriber

Fetchling offers nice options, but the racial feats are a chain mostly and therefore costly.
Also with a fetchling, racially you would profit more of "darkness" spells, creating darkness and/or dim light conditions, to take out the most of shadow blending. Gloom strike requires blind-fight, but the +1 to hit in dim light could be worth it. Also since you already have blind-fight, you are only combat expertise away from Moonlight stalker, which gives you +2 attack and damage as long as you have concealment vs a foe.

This could counter the problems multiclassing from medium BAB to low BAB can provide in combat, especially the lower BAB problem. With a ranged or melee combat character, you still want to hit.

Then did you think about which oracle curse you take?
And that other classes have only half the progression with the curse?

Legalistic does the least damage probably, but others can be fun, like Tongues or Haunted. Deaf could be difficult i guess.

If you don´t start on level 1, its not so important which level to take first, right?

As for the Mysteries, battle Oracle with Weapon Mastery could help in fights, but people might treat the progression while multiclassing differently.
Flame Mystery with Cinder Dance and Flame sight could help you a lot too.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Pawns Subscriber

TWF and Flurry of Stars both decrease your attack bonus.
I´m not sure if hoping to roll high rolls through numbers is better than having better boni.
Also shuriken are difficult, because you have to enchant them like ammunition, which will cost you a lot.


You can also do the shuriken-from-concealment trick with the Flames mystery "Gaze of Flames" revelation and the "Smoke Bomb" ninja trick - or a plain old smokestick!


Dingleberry wrote:
You can also do the shuriken-from-concealment trick with the Flames mystery "Gaze of Flames" revelation and the "Smoke Bomb" ninja trick - or a plain old smokestick!

hmm thats an interesting trick.

Our idea was a ninja oracle with clouded vision (sneak attack doesnt generally work farther away than 30 feet anyway...)

The bonuses from the curse over several level means she could eventually "see" through lots of stuff and sneak attack from all over the place and through stuff like smoke and darkness.


Hi Guys,

thanks for your opinieon on this topic.

@Hayato Ken: Nice breakdown of the Fetchling racial options. I know fetchling might not be overall the perfect joice for this kind of build, but I really liked the flavor of this race and had my character background story based on this race, so I'm defnititly gonna take Fetchling as race.

As far as oracles curse, I thought about haunted. The half progression hurts, but I think the genreal benefits of the oracle class are superior to those of the sorcerer, for multiclassing purposes.

Pendagast mentioned the clouded vision, and I think he has a valuable point, but in my oppinieon this really cripples the benefits of the fetchling race, as Darkvision and Lowlight Vision both are racial traits.

The Starting Level for this character would be level 5, so the feat composition would not be that important (up to level 5 of course ;-)

As far as the ammuntion problem is consernd, I think the blinkback belt from UE is gonna be my first priority, because with this belt, I will never run out of ammunition, and the shuriken enchantments are gonne cost a reasonable price.

The flames mystery seems also to be a good choice for any ninja, but I actually don't really get the idea of a sneaky ninja with flames mystery together in my head. From a flavor point of view, I think this is not a perfect fit.

My DM lets me take the shadow mystery I mentioned earlyer in this topic, and I actually thought that it would be pretty cool.

What do you think about this 3rd party mystery? Balanced and a good choice or crappy compared to the core stuff?


mercurio007 wrote:


The flames mystery seems also to be a good choice for any ninja, but I actually don't really get the idea of a sneaky ninja with flames mystery together in my head. From a flavor point of view, I think this is not a perfect fit.

With my ninja/oracle, I just spin it as heat and smoke, not fire and flames. (Clan motto: "Ashes to ashes.") Cinder Dance, Gaze of Flames, Heat Aura and Molten Skin are easy to visualize without actual flames. For the others, just get creative: Fire Breath is a cone of hot ash, Wings of Fire are wings of smoke, etc.

The Clouded Vision curse would fit the theme perfectly (smoky eyes) but is hard on a ranged build; Tongues (speaking Ignan) or Wasting (covered in burns that never heal) also match well.


I have a Ninja/Oracle. One level in Oracle (Waves). The trick has been discussed before so it isnt new but: Obscuring Mist + Water Sight. It's a fun trick full of flavour.

"Water Sight (Su): You can see through fog and mist without penalty as long as there is enough light to allow you to see normal..."

I have used this to great effect, though you have to take care for your allies...they might not see a thing either.

Means you get sneak attack if they cant see you. If you go more than one level Baleful Polymorph is quite amazing.


Flame Oracles have a similar (and more powerful) vision I think.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Pawns Subscriber

It´s of course a big flavor thing.

Like you see, there are several ways to achieve a goal^^
Just pick the one you like most. I think all of them work.

I didnt find your 3PP Mystery and im also not familar with UE equipment.


Thanks for your helpfull proposals and advice!

I'm gonna get back to the drawing Board and see if I have any questions left, regarding fest Selektion and so on.

@Ken: the shadow Mystery can be found behind the link in my First Post...


Dingleberry wrote:
mercurio007 wrote:


The flames mystery seems also to be a good choice for any ninja, but I actually don't really get the idea of a sneaky ninja with flames mystery together in my head. From a flavor point of view, I think this is not a perfect fit.

With my ninja/oracle, I just spin it as heat and smoke, not fire and flames. (Clan motto: "Ashes to ashes.") Cinder Dance, Gaze of Flames, Heat Aura and Molten Skin are easy to visualize without actual flames. For the others, just get creative: Fire Breath is a cone of hot ash, Wings of Fire are wings of smoke, etc.

The Clouded Vision curse would fit the theme perfectly (smoky eyes) but is hard on a ranged build; Tongues (speaking Ignan) or Wasting (covered in burns that never heal) also match well.

Sneak attack cant normally be used farther away than 30 feet, ranged for throwing is likewise lower than normal ranged attacks, take the few close quarters thrower, and its a melee thrower, that's what my wife is going for (with clouded vision) sometimes builds with weakness have more flavor as you figure out how to use or work around said weakness for said flavor.

Plus at higher levels you get dark vision (throwing in the dark hmmm? and blind sense (throwing at enemies behind you without turning around to look at them? neat ninja trick without blowing the ninja trick on it, dont you think?

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Pawns Subscriber

Mh there are always the real expensive sniper goggles, which are supercool, but also expensive.

I agree with you Pendagast, its an neat idea.
Also the sword and pistol feat and snap shot could fit well.


Pendagast wrote:
neat ninja trick without blowing the ninja trick on it, dont you think?

Indeed! Very shiny, plus I like the challenge of a Clouded Vision ninja. Mine is dual-cursed Clouded Vision and Wasting. (Caveat: he's also a gestalt ninja-oracle DMPC in a solo campaign, i.e., a helpful sidekick - so the curse limitations are definitely a feature, not a bug.)

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Pawns Subscriber

I don´t really see how wasting with its toll on CHA is helping a ninja.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Hayato Ken wrote:
I don´t really see how wasting with its toll on CHA is helping a ninja.

The -4 is only on Charisma-based skill checks, except for intimidate. It's not a penalty to the charisma stat and doesn't effect an Oracle's spells.


Hayato Ken wrote:
I don´t really see how wasting with its toll on CHA is helping a ninja.

It definitely isn't! As I said, mine is a DMPC sidekick, so the penalty to Cha skills is intended to keep the solo PC from relying on him to be face of the two-man party.

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