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How does one get an official ruling on something?


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion


I would like to get an official Pathfinder SRD ruling on something.

How does one go about getting an "official" ruling on something?

Silver Crusade

Post n' pray.

Best way is to post in the Rules Forum and click the FAQ button and ask others to click the FAQ as well if they agree.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber

First step is to check the FAQ and if it isn't there then use the search function to see how many times it has been argued through and potentially received a developers post that isn't in the FAQ.


I have looked through the FAQ, and I have the only instance of this specific question.

How would I know if an someone with a real official say answers my question?

Silver Crusade

Well, what's your question 1st off?

2nd: The problem with "Official" rulings is that they only really come through the FAQ and Erratas. You'll notice that often developers will post replies on the forums if they happen to notice a question, but you will often find that there is disagreement on issues and it's sorta like I said, a Post n' Pray way of doing things.

I guarantee you there are plenty of knowledgeable people on the boards who could help you though if you post your question.

Shadow Lodge

Ask the boards. If we can't find it we'll make it u..erm it doesn't exist (seriously, ask)


My question was posted here: (short read, 1 page)
http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz6l5r?Question-about-Summon-Eidolon

My GM read it, and still does not agree to the wording of it.

If the GM said: "This spell does not work like that" or "This spell does not exist", i would be fine with that. In fact, I told him so.

But, he continues to disagree. I just want an official stamp of "yea" or "nay".

Silver Crusade

I remember that thread. The spell works the way you were told in the thread, I don't think an "Official" ruling is going to change anything. It sounds like this guy really wants you guys to be shoehorned into the classic roles, and I doubt even words from the mouth of Paizo is going to change that.

My suggestion is that you read Trinam's guide to barbarians and make a Come and Get Me Invulnerable Rager and make him regret shoehorning you.


Sad to say but after reading the mentioned thread it seems like a problem that a FAQ can't fix.. that problem is a bad DM. Even if it got FAQed this kind of DM would just find another way to make problems.


Stome wrote:
Sad to say but after reading the mentioned thread it seems like a problem that a FAQ can't fix.. that problem is a bad DM. Even if it got FAQed this kind of DM would just find another way to make problems.

No disrespect, Stome, but please: do not call him a bad GM.

Bad ruling, fine. But, not his style.


I suppose I will have to be the bad guy here. Think of him what you will this is more then a bad ruling. Its not even a ruling at all since its spelled out crystal clear. This is him flat out ignoring RAW to try and force you to play how he wants you to. On top of that he discredits the answers given by people that know this system clearly much better then he does.

These things are much much bigger problems then just a bad ruling regardless of how one feels about him or his "style".


I meant no offense, Stome. Maybe I should have chosen my words better.

I just want a definitive rule on whether or not the Summon Eidolon spell can call back an eidolon that was killed.


Well I did FAQ the mentioned question but honestly its unlikely. FAQs tend to be about questions well that are asked a lot and as you said you have not found this one before (There is a reason for that, There really should not be any question here).

Things like this they tend to mark "No FAQ needed." or something like that (forgot the exact wording.) which means they feel the question was answered in the thread. But since your DM will not accept answers from anything less then a Dev that wont help you.

Silver Crusade

Paul the Dork wrote:

I meant no offense, Stome. Maybe I should have chosen my words better.

I just want a definitive rule on whether or not the Summon Eidolon spell can call back an eidolon that was killed.

It does. The whole point of the spell is to bring back your Eidolon if it went away after being killed or because you were knocked unconscious or went to sleep and didn't have time to summon it after waking up.


Elamdri wrote:
Paul the Dork wrote:

I meant no offense, Stome. Maybe I should have chosen my words better.

I just want a definitive rule on whether or not the Summon Eidolon spell can call back an eidolon that was killed.

It does. The whole point of the spell is to bring back your Eidolon if it went away after being killed or because you were knocked unconscious or went to sleep and didn't have time to summon it after waking up.

Like i said, in the fore mentioned thread, his interpretation was that because the spell did not specifically say "bring back from death" but instead said "sent to home plane, due to damage", it will not bring back a "killed" eidolon.

I just want an official response.

Silver Crusade

... what would this spell have any use for otherwise ?

"If the eidolon is sent back to its home plane due to death, it cannot be summoned again until the following day."

Straight from the eidolon's description.
An eidolon can only be sent to it's home plane by being killed (too much hit point damage) or banished. If it is killed, it is dead and back to it's home plane ; at which point the mighty Summon Eidolon spell brings it back with half HP as long as the spell is active or it is alive. Note that the spell requires a full-round casting, so you would have to cast it at the beginning of your round and wait until the beginning of the next so it appears, opening you to attacks and thus concentration checks if you don't protect yourself in-between or have a way to quicken this spell.

Jut warning you, you'll get no official answer. Both because the answer is obvious and has been given several times, and the developers already have to finish products and answer bigger concerns left, like the damn monk's flurry of blows.


Except the only way for an Eidolon "to be sent back due to damage" is if it is killed. At this point he is not arguing rulings. He is flat out twisting semantics.

(I assume he is ruling that the sentence means "if you decide to dismiss it due to damage", but if that were they case it would be a normal dismissal and there would be no point in stating it again.)

[edit] Ninja'ed [/edit]


I really have no way of knowing how he interprets it.

All I know is:
his interpretation is correct (because there is nothing official that contadicts it)

and my interpretation (and everyone in the Pathfinder forums, and all the summoner guides, and off topic discussions) are wrong in their interpretations...

I really wish he would just fiat it to his preference. But, he is stuck on the wording.

Silver Crusade

Then don't play the summoner and tear new holes to your enemies with a Come And Get Me barbarian with Dazing Assault.
Or heck, no, play a Dex-based Crane Style qinggong monk. Crane style + Ki point + Barkskin qinggong power + flurry of trips and disarms = h4ck AC and debuff skills.

There is having a strong personality and just being stubborn, and the DM is just being stubborn for the sake of not being wrong, which is pretty ironical in the end.


1) only 5 books are allowed

2) i am stubborn, too

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber

You are probably going to have to consider this to be a house rule of his if he won't be persuaded. If he does not agree that the only way an eidolon is sent back due to damage is to be killed, then you are at an impasse. It seems to me that the only way he might change is mind is if you can convince him that that line is meaningless otherwise. There is nothing else it can refer to.

As the others have said this is extremely unlikely to get a developer response because it is not unclear in the rules. Answering rules questions on the messageboards is a rarity as they are focused on other things and generally GMs are left to make their own calls as that is part of their job in running the game. They weigh in when rules wording is causing an going problem for many people and even then rarely.

Silver Crusade

1) You have all you need in these 5 books. Master of Many Styles with Panther/Snake/Crane styles and Trip/Disarm will allow you to run around tripping, disarming and punching targets if they attempt an attack of opportunity on you and fail (which they will). Or a simple qinggong monk with crane style. A polearm master fighter will trip and rend anything entering your attack range, with his only weakness being ranged attack rolls ; it will do exceptionnaly well with Teamwork Feats (check d20pfsrd for the list). Or hey, be fun, play a bard a living buff-providing tank.

2) The difference is that you are right in this matter. ;)


Thank you both ithuriel & Maxximilius

Silver Crusade

ithuriel wrote:

You are probably going to have to consider this to be a house rule of his if he won't be persuaded. If he does not agree that the only way an eidolon is sent back due to damage is to be killed, then you are at an impasse. It seems to me that the only way he might change is mind is if you can convince him that that line is meaningless otherwise. There is nothing else it can refer to.

As the others have said this is extremely unlikely to get a developer response because it is not unclear in the rules. Answering rules questions on the messageboards is a rarity as they are focused on other things and generally GMs are left to make their own calls as that is part of their job in running the game. They weigh in when rules wording is causing an going problem for many people and even then rarely.

You know, I could totally see James Jacobs dipping into the thread and giving a ruling only to then see:

"Well, yeah but James Jacobs isn't a rules guy."

FML


Paul the Dork wrote:


All I know is:
his interpretation is correct (because there is nothing official that contadicts it)

and my interpretation (and everyone in the Pathfinder forums, and all the summoner guides, and off topic discussions) are wrong in their interpretations...

Ok. First of all.. There is something official that contradicts his interpretation. The description of the spell. In plain english.

Second... He already admitted this in the other thread. He said he just read it wrong and he apologized to you. So why are you still pursuing this?

Silver Crusade

Elamdri wrote:


You know, I could totally see James Jacobs dipping into the thread and giving a ruling only to then see:

"Well, yeah but James Jacobs isn't a rules guy."

FML

"Well, yeah but this developer didn't write this specific part."

"Well, yeah but a developer's RAI isn't official FAQ."
"Well, ok it's in the FAQ but I don't like this so I'll just ignore it."


Elamdri & Maxximilius:
reminds me of a quote from a Shadowrun game

"Well, yes, I did it...but it's not my fault."
"Alright, it is my fault...but I'm not responsible."
"Well, maybe I am responsible...but I'm not to blame."
"Yes. I am to blame...but they made me do it."

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting Subscriber

Your GM said no.

Suck it up or find a new GM.


His GM already said yes. 6 hours ago. He registered an account and posted in the OP's other thread. He admitted he was wrong and apologized.


Grimmy wrote:
His GM already said yes. 6 hours ago. He registered an account and posted in the OP's other thread. He admitted he was wrong and apologized.

Grimmy is completely right, he just pointed out my mistake.

My apology is here:

http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz6lz9&page=5?Question-about-Tanking#216

Going to close this thread, Thank you all for your support, ideas, and laughs.... (poor James Jacobs)


Summon Eidolon does not bring back a dead Eidolon; you want Resurrection for that. On the other hand, killing an eidolon is very hard.

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