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Question about "Tanking"


Advice

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My GM told me to make a tank.

I know what a tank is, and what a tank does. But, How does one draw "aggro" in Pathfinder?

I am just looking for suggestions or basic builds.

DETAILS:
Level 10
Only books allowed are: Core, Advanced Playes Guide, Advanced Races, Ultimate Equipment, and Ultimate Combat.


Cavalier Honor Guard.
The full Bodyguard Feat Chain, Antagonize and maxed Intimidate.


Would a Paladin work?

Lay on Hands and the good saves, combined with Heavy Armor (and maybe Antagonize) should make for a sturdy tank.

You can get Intimidate as a Class Skill from a trait. The Holy Vindicator class will boost your AC and healing even more.


Other than Antagonize you can't really force anyone to attack you, but if you do enough damage that you can't be ignored they will most likely try to kill you. You can do that with an archery based build however.


Archer Paladins can hit really hard.

They can also take damage, and have good saves.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Why would your DM make the decision about your build?

Is he/she playing it? Is it a NPC?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm going to leave the Antagonize discussion to others. I can't stand the idea of it. >.<

I'm not sure what level of roleplaying you're comfortable with, but I've found that insulting my foes' lineage or, in the case of males, masculinity, can serve to secure "aggro" quite nicely. :)

Last session--knowing I had the best defenses with my Shield spell up--I moved up to engage the bandit captain. I opened up taunting him to try his skills against a real foe, and then got more and more personal from there.

He wound up challenging me to single combat in short order. :p


I don't like the feat either Pendragon, but if aggro is used in a game....


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

No Ultimate Magic? Why?


wraithstrike wrote:
I don't like the feat either Pendragon, but if aggro is used in a game....

I know, I know...

*grumbles*


The GM made a game for 4 players:

he wanted each to decide their roles, Ranged DPS, Melee DPS, Healer, and Tank.

He gave us no other details.

When I asked for suggestions, he gave me nothing besides "Do what you want".

(i gave an full character idea later, and told me that it was wrong for what he wanted)


Hey Paul
When I hear my players talking about who is going to be the tank, they are using the term a little more loosely than the MMO sense. They aren't trying to build a character with an aggro mechanic. What they usually mean is just a frontline combatant that can take a beating but also dish some damage. Usually a paladin or fighter or barbarian but could even be a cleric or druid focused on melee.
They always make sure they have a guy like that in every party.
Anyway that's just my group but I think it's pretty common.


I am just used to the basics, rogue, hitter, cleric, and mage.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Ah. WoW with dice.

Pathfinder does not work like that.

Have you asked him why?

What about PCs that don't fit those roles, are they banned?


Me too. I didn't know what they were talking about at first with all that dps talk.


Grimmy wrote:

Hey Paul

When I hear my players talking about who is going to be the tank, they are using the term a little more loosely than the MMO sense. They aren't trying to build a character with an aggro mechanic. What they usually mean is just a frontline combatant that can take a beating but also dish some damage. Usually a paladin or fighter or barbarian but could even be a cleric or druid focused on melee.
They always make sure they have a guy like that in every party.
Anyway that's just my group but I think it's pretty common.

This is exactly how my group thinks of it as well. Our current group has a pair of clerics I lovingly call "the Twin Towers." The Towers always stand at the forefront of our marching order, and are the first to engage the foe with their thick armor and shields. Then the rest of our melee follow them in.

"Aggro" is handled entirely through role-playing (as I gave an example of in my last post,) and foes respond accordingly, some taking the bait, others not so much.


Fighter. Reach weapon. Trip. Combat reflexes. Lunge. Combat patrol. Dazing Assult.

In Pathfinder you don't really 'draw aggro', but you can come up with builds that keep enemies from getting past you.


I just looking for advice for character builds to "tank".

I have always played the trapfinder (rogue) since 2nd ed. D&D, but this notion of roles in relation to M.U.D.'s (MMO's) is confounding.

Lantern Lodge

blackbloodtroll wrote:
No Ultimate Magic? Why?

Cos one of the best tank is the MASTER SUMMONER!

Waves of "cannon fodder" summons to tank the rounds out of any enemy. :)


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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

WoW tactics simply do not work in Pathfinder, because it is not WoW.

Lantern Lodge

Paul the Dork wrote:

I just looking for advice for character builds to "tank".

I have always played the trapfinder (rogue) since 2nd ed. D&D, but this notion of roles in relation to M.U.D.'s (MMO's) is confounding.

Sorry for the double post.

A tank is someone who is able to 1) draw the attention of enemies, 2) take on the damage deal by the enemies and if possible, via step 1 and 2, 3) Stop the enemies from attacking/damaging his allies.

This means that not all "tanks" are big, huge and "tank-like"... lol

Summoners (including clerics, sorcerers...etc) , Snap shot feat line archers and even some monk types can all be "tanks" by stopping the enemy from targeting their allies.


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Sure it can bbt. In a way. It doesn't matter where the terms originated if the result is a balanced party that has its bases covered.

As for the GM telling them exactly what to play, thats pretty rough.


Also, I'm partial to the come and get me barbarian as well. Really brutal with Dazing Assult.


Secane wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
No Ultimate Magic? Why?

Cos one of the best tank is the MASTER SUMMONER!

Waves of "cannon fodder" summons to tank the rounds out of any enemy. :)

No idea why. I think it might have been from a suggestion of another player... who i believe is playing a custom made class.

Go figure!

...

But, please more suggestions!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I suggest talking to your DM about his restrictions.


Is your DM just offering a suggestion or is he really telling you guys what to play?

Did he even pick out who plays what or did you guys decide that part at least?


He tore apart my idea, and another player threatened to leave the game.

I wanted to play a summoner.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

What? Why?

He refused to play with a Summoner, or without predetermined builds?


Paul the Dork wrote:

He tore apart my idea, and another player threatened to leave the game.

I wanted to play a summoner.

What idea did he tear apart?

Lantern Lodge

Paul the Dork wrote:

He tore apart my idea, and another player threatened to leave the game.

I wanted to play a summoner.

Was it a Synthesist summoner? :\


I told him, a large bipedal eidolon, with the feats: stand still and combat reflexes, specifically designed to cover any who tried to attack the casters of the group.

Responses: "Not a tank class, but I see your angle"

and

"Hey man, I've been thinking this over. You agreed on melee\tank with group, could you at least stick with it. If the eidolon dies you lose the tank for 24Hr." (my response: " And what if I played the tank and I die?"


Secane wrote:
Paul the Dork wrote:

He tore apart my idea, and another player threatened to leave the game.

I wanted to play a summoner.

Was it a Synthesist summoner? :\

Nope. A straight human summoner.

Oh! He also forbade alternate class and racial builds. No traits either.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I am having a hard time not bashing your DM.

He may be a nice guy, but I could see myself flipping out on the guy.

I am sorry.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Yeah, sounds slightly worse than the DM I just left.

And that's saying quite a lot, given the s***storm we had.


Honestly I find it interesting there is so much MMO bashing going on. After all it is another form of RP to many people and completely viable.

My group has several guys in their last year of highschool and one junior. He is a recent addition a total WoW kid. We explained many things to him in game using references from WoW so that he could catch on fast and it worked like a charm.

We really only use it when referring to builds, but that is just my group.. and we tend to be combat heavy with RP focused on the objective/storyline rather than sideline RP.

I refer to myself as a "Glass Cannon" as a wizard, because I am very "squishy" and focus on battle field control and debuff. He considers me to be a Warlock.. or whatever it is.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

No, the "play this kind of build or else" is the problem.


Icyshadow wrote:

Yeah, sounds slightly worse than the DM I just left.

And that's saying quite a lot, given the s***storm we had.

What is your story, Icyshadow? What S***storm?


blackbloodtroll wrote:

I am having a hard time not bashing your DM.

He may be a nice guy, but I could see myself flipping out on the guy.

I am sorry.

He is a great guy, one of the best friends i could ever ask for. But, here i am being passive-aggressive on a forum trying to get advice on how to give the GM what he wants.


Paul the Dork wrote:
Icyshadow wrote:

Yeah, sounds slightly worse than the DM I just left.

And that's saying quite a lot, given the s***storm we had.

What is your story, Icyshadow? What S***storm?

It's a long story that I'm too tired to explain again.

You can find it somewhere along my posts, or someone else who has read about it could fill you in if they want to.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber

Ok first of all in pathfinder you don't need a healer (or a rogue for that matter but let's not open this can of worms), what you most probably would want is a divine caster (6 spell levels and higher) because at higher levels the status ailments can become a real problem.

Now to suggestions:
Barbarian and paladin, both clases deal enourmous amount of damage, both can have high saves, both have high hp (the paladin does so through lay on hands).


Icyshadow wrote:
Paul the Dork wrote:
Icyshadow wrote:

Yeah, sounds slightly worse than the DM I just left.

And that's saying quite a lot, given the s***storm we had.

What is your story, Icyshadow? What S***storm?

It's a long story that I'm too tired to explain again.

You can find it somewhere along my posts, or someone else who has read about it could fill you in if they want to.

If it is not to much trouble, could you provide a link for me, to it. Or give me a few keywords to search for?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Why the role restrictions?

Some are not needed.


Found it, the story is here for those curious of it.

I left the Council of Thieves game, and my group dropped it completely.

Sczarni

Paul, there is no concrete guideline to building a tank because many classes are good at being a tank.

For starters try to come up with general idea. Which class do you wish to play? What Race?

In the end, a tank doesn't have to even carry shield to be a tank. You can tank with simple large spear and still dish out fine damage.


Paul the Dork wrote:

He tore apart my idea, and another player threatened to leave the game.

I wanted to play a summoner.

So did this other player threaten to leave because he was frustrated with the GM or what?


Malag wrote:

Paul, there is no concrete guideline to building a tank because many classes are good at being a tank.

For starters try to come up with general idea. Which class do you wish to play? What Race?

In the end, a tank doesn't have to even carry shield to be a tank. You can tank with simple large spear and still dish out fine damage.

My original thought, was to play a druid. But, they were nerfed in 3.5, so i looked and looked. I thought that the barbarian or fighter would be the best option

I was thinking of the cavalier or the samurai for a while, but they are mainly "dps", even with their "call you out" ability. But, limited uses a day, as well as on only ONE target at a time.

But then, i found the summoner. I can "make" a large creature, which stays with me all day, while taking up space that impedes enemies, its natural reach would protect the casters, and it gets feats (stand still, combat reflexes). And, if needed: i could retreat with the other casters, because the eidolon would slow down the baddies. And if they get too close to us, teleport the eidolon to me to protect us again. Rinse. Repeat.

And, if it dies, i can resummon it with the spell Summon Monster, which will make it stronger via the augment summon feat.

It sounded great.

....but, i already stated what his response was...

sad face...


Grimmy wrote:
Paul the Dork wrote:

He tore apart my idea, and another player threatened to leave the game.

I wanted to play a summoner.

So did this other player threaten to leave because he was frustrated with the GM or what?

No, he threatened to leave because I was being disruptive, and was not playing the role assigned to me.


Dude, IcyShadow, I am sorry. I just read the story. *pat on the back*


Paul:

Sounds like your DM doesn't know how the game is played. If you really want to play, just have him make the character for you. It seems like that's what he wants anyway.

Otherwise, you can't really make a damage magnet like it seems you want (I don't play WoW, so I don't quite know what is required)


Druids are still really good in Pathfinder. You just have to decide between a caster druid and a combat druid. In 3.5 they could be good at everything. You could still make a good tanking druid.

I would recommend a Paladin but if things aren't so good with your GM right now that might not be a good idea. If he's being controlling, whether he means to or not, that might suck for you as a Paladin.

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